[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[bv310]

You're missing the point. Having a two scum team game more often than not relies on crosskills to come to a successful conclusion. Having an entirely bulletproof team means that BOTH of them need to be lynched in order for another team to win. Coupled with the Vig role shooting at just about anybody, Team 2 will win in most cases. This isn't a setup most people would want to play, since unless you end up on the SK team, you are more than likely going to lose.

[drmyshottyizsik]

they are lovers dude so only one of them will need to be lynched

[bv310]

I still don't like it, but that's a bit closer to the balance you need.

[Andrius]

Shotty, two Serial Killers with a shared kill, as mason-lovers (?!?) is just a scumteam that's compromised of lovers.

Also, PR passing will make this game a BITCH for the scum, so.

[jimfinn]

Andrius, it's PR passing with the lynch, but with a NK it dies. Or at least that's my understanding. I think adding one extra goon might make it viable.

[Andrius]

Andrius, it's PR passing with the lynch, but with a NK it dies. Or at least that's my understanding. I think adding one extra goon might make it viable.

Sounds like a vague shade of Trader Mafia...

you mind posting the setup again with updates?

[drmyshottyizsik]

ok so the town starts with 6 PR's and if the pr is lynched they can pass on their ability. If they are NK'd the ability dies.

town

9 VT's(For now)
1 cop
1 Doc
1 Tracker
1 Watcher
1 Vig
1 Bullet proof townie

3rd Party

1 SK

mafia

1 God father
1 RB
3 Goons

[Andrius]

Can PRs pass to non-townies?

[drmyshottyizsik]

No the PR goes away if that happens. Unless you think it would work better other wise

[bv310]

To make the game fair, it should be able to. Otherwise, a PR pass would mean confirmed townie status if they could prove it.

[drmyshottyizsik]

but they couldnt really could they?
and confirmed town would make it ballanced because of the 3 nk's

[Andrius]

but they couldnt really could they?
and confirmed town would make it ballanced because of the 3 nk's

NO. MASSCLAIM MEANS BREAKAGE.

[drmyshottyizsik]

but they couldnt really could they?
and confirmed town would make it ballanced because of the 3 nk's

NO. MASSCLAIM MEANS BREAKAGE.

oh ok, so ya scum can get the pr

[hitogoroshi]

I posted this idea a long time ago, and I had a flash of inspiration for a few changes, so I'm gonna bring it back and see what you guys think.

Slow Rusty Guillotine Mafia

You cannot no-lynch or no-kill in Slow Rusty Guillotine Mafia.

2 Mafia Goons
1 Mafia Lengthy Roleblocker
1 Town Tracker
1 Sydney Carton
1 One-Shot Impatient Vigilante
7 Townies

Special Lynch Mechanic

When a majority is reached on someone, the mod will announce such and the day will end. However, the person in question will not be dead (and their alignment will not be revealed) until the end of the next day, when a new majority is reached on someone. When a majority is reached on someone, they cannot use any night or day actions but can still vote and are still counted for the lynch threshold the next day.
Exception: If two scum are dead and a majority is reached on the third scum, the game will end.

New Role: One-Shot Impatient Vigilante

This guillotine is so slow...sometime you just gotta know, y'know? That's why you brought your gun along to the festivities. No need to wait for a slow old blade, right? And hey, he was gonna die anyway...so really, you didn't kill a guy at all. You've only got one shot, though, so make it count.

At any point during the day, you may PM the moderator saying that you want to use your ability. You will instantly kill the player who a majority was reached on the previous day, revealing their alignment and removing them from the thread. In addition, it will lower the votes needed to reach a majority by one for the rest of the day. This ability will not reveal who the vigilante is. You only get one use of this ability.

You win with the town.

New Role: Sydney Carton

You'll be the first to admit that you're not a model citizen. But when push comes to shove, you're ready to take the place of someone who you believe is being lynched wrongly.

At any point during the day, you may PM the moderator saying you want to use this ability. You will switch with the player who is going to die at the end of the day. This switch will be shared in thread. While this guarantees that you will die at the end of the day, you will still be able to vote as normal for the duration of the day. In addition, because only you have this ability to switch in for the lynch, using this ability will confirm you as town.

You win with the town.

New Role: Mafia Lengthy Roleblocker

You see a lot of amateur roleblockers bragging because "that doc didn't get anything done all night." Big whoop. When you block someone, you

block

someone.

If you roleblock a player during the night, they are also unable to use their ability during the subsequent day.

So that's the game. Because you cannot no-lynch or no-kill, the town can have three mislynches but loses on the fourth mislynch. Curious what you guys think. At the moment, if you think one faction is slightly stronger than the other, there are some fairly easy changes that could be implemented:

If mafia is too strong: make tracker a watcher, turn lengthy roleblocker into a normal roleblocker (remember both impatient vig and carton can guaranteed confirm themselves with no dayblocker, unless carton thinks current person strung up is scum.)
if town is too strong: sydney carton ability use is hidden until day end, remove -lynch threshold on impatient vig, remove a VT (which would let scum win on the third townie mislynch)

[gandalf5166]

The tracker seems a bit much. There are no town night actions, so he's only a TINY bit less powerful than a cop. One question though: can the roleblocker both roleblock and kill the same night?

[Antihero]

I would ditch the sydney carton role. I would also add a vigilante and a some kind of protective role (roleblocker or doc).

EDIT: I disagree with gandalf. Unless there's only 1 scum left, a tracker is WAY harder than a cop (because in order to get a good result, the tracker has to guess not only who's scum, but which scum is doing the kill).

[gandalf5166]

Well, if the roleblocker can't kill and roleblock same night, then only one scum didn't do the kill. The point is, if he gets a result at all, he gets a guilty.

[Herodotus]

Looks to me like the setup favors the scum, though they don't have room to fakeclaim.
The carton should almost never use their ability, right? Only if it would prove their claim if scum counterclaim. And even then, the previous day's lynchee gets out of being lynched until at least the following day. It seems this role combines the badness of a governor and the badness of a self-targeting-only vig.
@Gandalf: yes, any non-null result is a guilty, but the tracker only has a 1 in 3 chance of choosing the killer even if they track mafia, and the mafia may hold their RB until they have 1 or 2 good guesses about who is the tracker.

[hitogoroshi]

One question though: can the roleblocker both roleblock and kill the same night?

Nope.

The carton should almost never use their ability, right? Only if it would prove their claim if scum counterclaim. And even then, the previous day's lynchee gets out of being lynched until at least the following day. It seems this role combines the badness of a governor and the badness of a self-targeting-only vig.

It's there for when the Carton believes that the target has been mistakenly lynched. I'm going off the idea that it can be fairly obvious in the course of a game day that the person currently slated to die is actually a townie. I suppose, though, that a Carton who makes a poor judgment call can ruin the game by un-lynching scum. Putting the entire game in the hands of one judgment call is a bit un-fun, even if (as I feel) it's not a terrible difficult judgment call.

I like the idea of possible salvation because it helps give incentive for the dead player to still play their hardest, but the game being lost because a good scum fooled Carton does seem iffy. Let's try switching it up a bit.

Slow Rusty Guillotine Mafia (First Revision)

You cannot no-lynch or no-kill in Slow Rusty Guillotine Mafia.

1 Mafia Goon
1 Mafia Tracker
1 Mafia Lengthy Roleblocker
1 Town Tracker
1 Sydney Carton
1 Charles Darnay
1 One-Shot Impatient Vigilante
6 Townies

Special Lynch Mechanic

When a majority is reached on someone, the mod will announce such and the day will end. However, the person in question will not be dead (and their alignment will not be revealed) until the end of the next day, when a new majority is reached on someone. When a majority is reached on someone, they cannot use any night or day actions but can still vote and are still counted for the lynch threshold the next day.
Exception: If two scum are dead and a majority is reached on the third scum, the game will end.

New Role: Mafia Lengthy Roleblocker

You see a lot of amateur roleblockers bragging because "that doc didn't get anything done all night." Big whoop. When you block someone, you

block

someone.

If you roleblock a player during the night, they are also unable to use their ability during the subsequent day. If you roleblock either Sydney Carton or Charles Darnay, they will be unable to talk during the subsequent night.

If you roleblock, you are unable to kill that night.

You win with the mafia.

New Role: Sydney Carton

You'll be the first to admit that you're not a model citizen. But you try to scrape by with the help of your friend, Charles Darnay. If he were to die, well...he deserves life more than you.

Each night, and before all confirmations have finished, you may talk with Charles Darnay, who you know to be town. This counts as a night action.

If a majority is reached on Charles Darnay, then, next morning, the moderator will announce that you will be lynched instead. This will confirm both you and him as town.

You win with the town.

New Role: Charles Darnay

You are a French aristocrat by birth, and though you don't associate with their snobbery, you're damn sure not going to side with the revolutionaries.

Each night, and before all confirmations have finished, you may talk with Sydney Carton, who you know to be town. This counts as a night action.

You win with the town.

New Role: One-Shot Impatient Vigilante

This guillotine is so slow...sometime you just gotta know, y'know? That's why you brought your gun along to the festivities. No need to wait for a slow old blade, right? And hey, he was gonna die anyway...so really, you didn't kill a guy at all. You've only got one shot, though, so make it count.

At any point during the day, you may PM the moderator saying that you want to use your ability. You will instantly kill the player who a majority was reached on the previous day, revealing their alignment and removing them from the thread. In addition, it will lower the votes needed to reach a majority by one for the rest of the day. This ability will not reveal who the vigilante is. You only get one use of this ability.

You win with the town.

There are the changes. Town is more powerful because there's a mason-pair replacing weird, unhelpful Carton. Scum are more powerful because they get a tracker as well, and because the tracker now has half odds of detecting either town or scum(one roleblocking, one killing). Makes it so the Carton's ability is automatic, and while it's less likely to trigger you're 100% sure you're being an awesome hero when you do it.

[drmyshottyizsik]

At this point man you need to get rid of a towny and run this as a mini theme(semi-open)

[Herodotus]

It's there for when the Carton believes that the target has been mistakenly lynched. I'm going off the idea that it can be fairly obvious in the course of a game day that the person currently slated to die is actually a townie. I suppose, though, that a Carton who makes a poor judgment call can ruin the game by un-lynching scum. Putting the entire game in the hands of one judgment call is a bit un-fun, even if (as I feel) it's not a terrible difficult judgment call.

I disagree that there are such situations. I can think of some exceptions, like role-based information, but a lynchee who acts town is just trying to escape the guillotine for all the town knows.
I approve of the change.

There are the changes. Town is more powerful because there's a mason-pair replacing weird, unhelpful Carton. Scum are more powerful because they get a tracker as well, and because

the tracker now has half odds of detecting either town or scum

(one roleblocking, one killing). Makes it so the Carton's ability is automatic, and while it's less likely to trigger you're 100% sure you're being an awesome hero when you do it.

No; as you posted it, if the tracker gets any result that says "your target visited _____", that means they must have tracked scum, because only the scum and the tracker have night actions.

Observation: If n scum and n+1 townies are alive, the scum have already won. Even if mafia is lynched, they will control half the votes on the following day, unless the vig can save the town - which they can only do once. So I think the town can only afford 2 mislynches before they lose.

[drmyshottyizsik]

also a Mass Claim will destroy it if it's run open

[Herodotus]

also a Mass Claim will destroy it if it's run open

I disagree.

But for balance and for playtesting purposes, I would suggest simplifying things by making it 2 mafia, maybe have the vig be the only town PR, and maybe give them two, or unlimited, shots.

[drmyshottyizsik]

they could always play pass the miller ability

[Twomz]

Desert Island Mafia

Shirley Temple - Innocent Child (cannot be mafia or miller)
Sherlock Holmes - Cop
Columbo - Cop
Jack Sparrow - Roleblocker
Marilyn Monroe - Roleblocker
Conspiracy Nut - Miller, all who target him become miller's as well (retain's abilities)
George Carlin - Miller, if targeted by someone who is a miller, shows as innocent
Theodore Roosevelt - Bulletproof
Dio - Bulletproof

Roles will be assigned at random, then alignments will be assigned (2 mafia, 1 Sk, 6 town).