Reckamonic's Ocarina of Time Mafia..OVER! Was Hyrule saved?


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Post Post #1275 (ISO) » Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:16 pm

Post by Ythan »

jenniwren wrote:Ythan, if you don't want to be called a bully
I don't recall saying that. :oops:
Because of the escalated and hostile nature of this debate, it might be a good thing for Ythan and LLD to actually step back and look at what the other is saying and try to formulate a logical and succinct response to the other’s argument. If they are both town, they shouldn’t have a problem with this, as it is in the town’s best interests to communicate with other town and not make it harder to actually scumhunt.
I know exactly what she's saying and at any time that she has made a valid point it has surprised me well enough that I've certainly taken note of it.
jenniwren wrote:Prefacing the word “goddess” with a descriptor like “aquatic” actually makes sense to me, as does the use of the word “verdant” to describe an earth goddess. (“Verdant” means “green with vegetation”; it is absolutely logical that it
could
be a descriptor of races/goddesses/ whatever. Also, Zwet’s flavor says “non-verdant races,” which heavily implies that some races
will
be “verdant whatever,” and logic tells me that those races will be associated with geographical locations such as forests that have an abundance of green vegetation.)
Except the only place we've seen it is specifically in reference to Barinade. You, like anyone else, needs to explain why non-foresty would be used to describe a giant jellyfish inside a whale's belly.
The scum are loving the confusion wrought by 50 pages in five days. Can we not do that again? I promise to try not to write anymore WoTs if we can avoid yet another explosion of "nyah-nyah"/"I rule and you drool" posts.
Except that we've been attacking obvscum the whole time so I doubt they're enjoying it too much. Or you're assuming that they're town and there's something wrong with you.
chesskid3 wrote:Yup Jenni is town. Cool.
Because she made two longish posts? I was changing my mind about you please don't make me go back.
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Post Post #1276 (ISO) » Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:25 pm

Post by Ythan »

This is the most biased crock of whiny AtE bullshit I've ever read in my time on this site. Almost every word is dedicated to trying to make us think you're a crybaby but don't worry, you've already got that on lock.
Le Cupcake wrote:1.
"Quote comes from game. Therefore, you are scum!"
As had been covered in the past few pages, this has been invalidated.
It was perfectly valid at the time and the ensuing argument drove out your scumbuddy.
2.
"Nayru is not an aquatic Goddess. What a shitty fake claim."
LLD has posted plenty of references regarding the fact that Nayru is indeed often associated with water. We do not know the game. We cannot support our claim with in-game references.
You certainly do not know the game and it don't have anything to contribute to the aquatic issue then don't bother to remind us that your scumbuddy has an opinion you can't elaborate on.
BE then says [/b]
Blooderection wrote:
Lady Lambdadelta wrote:If you look at my iso, in the OTHER Zelda wiki, there are LOTS of references to water, zoras and aquatic nature.
That doesn't help if that's not the site that Reck+dram used.
because you know, there is NO WAY the mods used any other site, and you DEFINITELY know which sites they used. Yeah, no.
Except we have evidence that they used one site and you didn't even make a point here other than "NO WAY DUDE NO WAY."
Probably the worst part of your post.
No I changed my mind after I read further.

3.
So, why did we say that Ythan spew BS? Because he assumes that he is right without supporting your arguments against LLD apart from
“I know the game! It cannot possibly be that Nayru is aquatic and thus I will choose to ignore all your references and evidence that associate Nayru with water! Because, guess what, I say it’s impossible! Oh hey, other people like jenniwren and jmj have posted also claiming the link between Nayru and water."
You're the worst kind of player and you need to cut the AtE if you want anyone to think otherwise, ever. You're probably really bumming your scumbuddies out with your terrible play. Let's take a look; One, you're acting like I have to believe Lady's aquatic case. Which I don't. It's not a compelling argument in any sense of the words. Go cry about it. Two, pick appeal to emotion or appeal to (not even a) majority, don't use both in one post. Just because two of the other 27 players said it doesn't mean it's true.
Example:
jmj3000 wrote:Din flat out is fire. There is a reason her spell in the game is called "Din's Fire". So, using that logic and connection, its not such a leap to assume Nayru is aquatic and Farore is verdant. I have also always associated water with protection and Nayru's Love is out and out a protection spell...(irrelevant info omitted)
"That’s okay, I’ll choose to ignore them but telling them to post an analysis, even if it BLATANTLY clear what their point is (post 1003). And anyways, I’ll ignore their point anyways because they’re WRONG and I’m right. Yep, that’s it. I’ll just keep posting BS.”
I've explained why verdant doesn't work and that aquatic is the only one of that trinity that was actually posted in the thread. Don't make me make fun of you for failing at reading on a text-based site.
4.
The following is about Ythan’s summary on page 41.
(here, here and here)
“Cupcake claims aquatic goddess. It’s incorrect.”
Why does he say this? Because he assumes that he knows everything about the flavor and how the mods worked the flavor from the actual games into this mafia game.
You already whined once about me not believing her, you can save your breath for other shit now.
“LLD starts her defense. It’s not a good one. And she OMGUS’ed me.”
In actuality, Ythan fails to really refute any of her arguments beyond “It’s wrong!” For example, her reason for voting him in the first place
The vote was actually unsupported against any factual criticism. Lol you're dumb. :oops:
Lady Lambdadelta wrote:2.
You are pushing Against Cupcake with false information, hoping that no one will notice!
Much more likely. There is so little evidence against Cupcake, and you are scrounging to get more. This isn't something a townie should be doing.
There still isn't a point here. You two have a bad habit of complaining that my case lacks evidence without actually disputing any of it. Don't worry though, I understand. (It's because you're dumb.)
He never comments on this, by the way, apart from saying it's proxy-OMGUS.
There's nothing else to say about the vote because that's pretty plainly what it is. I'm not going to make up alternate theories to humor your bad playstyle and hers.
We activated Nayru’s Love to protect ourselves. This resulted in the cuccos being disintegrated into little blue particles. LLD points out that this is likely the blue force field known as Nayru’s Love because it is logical that when things collide into a force field, they disintegrate.
Which is a ridiculous stretch, by the way, especially considering that Nayru's Love doesn't even do that. Just using "LLD said this" or "LLD agrees" when she is clearly your scumbuddy is, hate to break it to you because I know you don't have actual content, not a good way to support yourself.
Ythan’s refute?[/b]
“You’re lying.”
Hit the nail on the head too.
Ythan wrote: 963 Lady LD claims that Cupcake was defended by a blue forcefield, ie Nayru's Love. Too bad she's completely lying.
Absolutely amazing refute, isn’t it? Ythan assumes he knows everything about this game, when in fact, it is completely false. He is not one of the mods, but yet he feels the need to strut around acting a god.
Cry about it. More, I mean.
5.
“LLD is poorly defending Cupcake based on lies!”
This is just BS. Why? Because Ythan has thus far been unable to disprove anything without basing it off of flavor speculation. All he does is make forceful statements that are completely unsupported. And when others post relevant information that go against him, such as the cases with jenniwren and jmj, he ignores them. Ythan’s strategy is this: he makes strong accusations, calling people liars, hoping that the certainty in his words will completely mask his lack of proof, and thus win other people’s support. This tactic is commonly used, not just in mafia. One uses emotive words and assertive claims so that others will be more inclined to listen/believe them without probing any deeper.
It IS flavor, if you expect me to provide more evidence in a flavor argument then you're (even more) retarded. Asking for more evidence against you when what is already there is plenty for the argument at hand is a scummy bullshit way out of having to address what's already there. And you're all about some scummy bullshit.
6.
LLD points out Ythan’s lack of proof and his constant defenses that consist of
“You’re lying. I’m right.”
What is Ythan’s response?
“Quit whining. I don’t care”
which is a reflection of all his arguments.
Except I argue against the claim, which you made, and if it's false you must be lying. Lol logic sorry.

I skipped the rest because it's more "You need even more proof before you lynch us and I'm going to bitch about you being mean." Yeah go away nobody cares. Talk about content or shut the fuck up so we don't have to wade through your bullshit. If you think you ever actually made a point in there then feel free to repeat it without all the horrible whining and bitching and moaning and I'll take a look.
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Post Post #1277 (ISO) » Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:29 pm

Post by Lady Lambdadelta »

That whole post still provides no evidence.
Yes my Lord, but questions are dangerous, for they have answers.

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Post Post #1278 (ISO) » Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:33 pm

Post by Ythan »

Chronopie wrote:I still agree with LLD over Ythan, and the cupcake has made a good summation of Ythan's shortfall.
Expound on why you agree with any one specific point. Because it really looks like you're the most terribly obvious sheep.
DTMaster wrote:Self Note: Double miller claims reveals also an element of mirroring (see Day/Night mafia in my wiki). It's possible to break the game via claims later at the MC stage.
I had a better theory. In case you didn't read it, in all likelihood it's boss monsters.
Also in the post below saturation of flavour arguments generally come from scum. I relate back to my play in Mafia of Order and Gorrad's play in Kingdom Hearts Mafia (both in my wiki); where I/Gorrad used flavour analysis to mislead the town. I agree that both LL and Ythan at this point looks suspicious. The game is Mafia, not LoZ OoT. Flavour makes the game enjoyable if you know it, but it shouldn't be the basis of the game.
This is a cop out, if you were keeping up any better you would at least know to pretend that the argument is about a botched claim and flavor is clearly relevant to that.
2. Ythan I'm confused you are saying Dram broke flavour and modified it. Le gasp roles are independent of alignments ? D: /sarcasm. It's a theory I adopt usually in theme games (Especially both Nikanor and I designed games like that). I'd also apply it here even with Dram's meta of accuracy just because it leads nowhere.
Is there a point to this? I've known from the start, and have made it clear when first relevant, that the alignments in this game are likely to be a surprise.
10. Omg Flavour fight. Before I read on with this ridiculous debate
Ythan I assume you claim that your role does not have the quote from the Zelda wiki and you are counterclaiming Le Cupcake for this
because this is getting beyond retarded in terms of scum hunting. That's the only logical explanation for this line of argument.
I came around about that specific issue later when other players brought up their quotes and I checked the site. That's hardly the bulk of the argument though so I hope you got the rest of it too.
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Post Post #1279 (ISO) » Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:34 pm

Post by Ythan »

Lady Lambdadelta wrote:That whole post still provides no evidence.
Evidence for what? I was responding to a whole logn post of bitching and moaning. Say something useful or shut the hell up because posts like this one you just made mean less than nothing. Q fucking Q about it.
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Post Post #1280 (ISO) » Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:36 pm

Post by Lady Lambdadelta »

How is it correct for you to say we are lying? Because you said so?

How about this.
Nothing you have said so far in this argument relating to Cupcake has been in the best interests of the town. In other words, you've been lying through your teeth.


Just because I said it, does it make it true?
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Post Post #1281 (ISO) » Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:38 pm

Post by Ythan »

GandalfIzSik wrote:
unvote
vote policy lynch on chess
Please stop complicating things for your less inept hydra partner. And chess, stop being dumb. I like my role and I bet the majority of players in this game do too. We know you do based on how you were threatening to attempt to vanillize me for hurting your feelings.
Aikage wrote:Ythan is main reason for mosts of these pages and he could be scum too with the way he bullies people so he is a good lynch id vote him if i could
One, I always act like this. Two, "He's mean so he must be scum" is literally retarded.
chesskid3 wrote:Just me or does this post basically read "please put me out of my misery, vig?"?
As ironic as it appears for you to say that I think that we have indeed found someone that you can make fun of.
GandalfIzSik wrote:
Substrike22 wrote:Gandalf what policy are you employing? And so help me if you mention VI...
He is a detrement to the town, and we should lynch his anti-town ass now when we still have a lynch
And about Kdub's point... Me(Shotty) and Gand had a little bit of a different view point and he posted that before he had finished reading.
Are you dozens of pages behind.
Lady Lambdadelta wrote:I'm kinda feeling like there might be multiple scum factions in this game...

Anyone else gettin that vibe?
"Lucky me I can still hunt scum."
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Post Post #1282 (ISO) » Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:39 pm

Post by Ythan »

Lady Lambdadelta wrote:How is it correct for you to say we are lying? Because you said so?

How about this.
Nothing you have said so far in this argument relating to Cupcake has been in the best interests of the town. In other words, you've been lying through your teeth.


Just because I said it, does it make it true?
No, because you're scum and a poor liar and a terrible player. Since I'm none of those things I don't see a problem.
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Post Post #1283 (ISO) » Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:40 pm

Post by Lady Lambdadelta »

Can you answer this question for me Ythan?

DOES YOUR ROLE PM CONTAIN A QUOTE FROM THE GAME, LoZ OoT?

Yes or No answer please. None of this:
Ythan wrote:
10. Omg Flavour fight. Before I read on with this ridiculous debate
Ythan I assume you claim that your role does not have the quote from the Zelda wiki and you are counterclaiming Le Cupcake for this
because this is getting beyond retarded in terms of scum hunting. That's the only logical explanation for this line of argument.
I came around about that specific issue later when other players brought up their quotes and I checked the site. That's hardly the bulk of the argument though so I hope you got the rest of it too.

Yes. Or no.
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Post Post #1284 (ISO) » Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:41 pm

Post by Lady Lambdadelta »

Ythan wrote:
Lady Lambdadelta wrote:How is it correct for you to say we are lying? Because you said so?

How about this.
Nothing you have said so far in this argument relating to Cupcake has been in the best interests of the town. In other words, you've been lying through your teeth.


Just because I said it, does it make it true?
No, because you're scum and a poor liar and a terrible player. Since I'm none of those things I don't see a problem.

You are the most hypocritical player I have ever seen!

My argument will now reflect yours. You are scum, and a poor liar. I am neither of those things, therefor, I am telling the truth, and YOU are lying.

An argument isn't conclusive, if I can argue the exact same thing back.
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Post Post #1285 (ISO) » Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:46 pm

Post by Ythan »

Too bad it's actually going to get you lynched and not me. :lol:
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Post Post #1286 (ISO) » Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:47 pm

Post by Lady Lambdadelta »

Ythan wrote:Too bad it's actually going to get you lynched and not me. :lol:

This remains to be seen. Don't be so cocky about your position in the game, scum.
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Post Post #1287 (ISO) » Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:50 pm

Post by Ythan »

Lady Lambdadelta wrote: :cry:
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Post Post #1288 (ISO) » Sat Oct 09, 2010 4:00 pm

Post by Lady Lambdadelta »

Ythan wrote:
Lady Lambdadelta wrote: :cry:
What is the relevance of this post?

How does it help town?
Lady Lambdadelta wrote:Can you answer this question for me Ythan?

DOES YOUR ROLE PM CONTAIN A QUOTE FROM THE GAME, LoZ OoT?

Yes or No answer please. None of this:
Ythan wrote:
10. Omg Flavour fight. Before I read on with this ridiculous debate
Ythan I assume you claim that your role does not have the quote from the Zelda wiki and you are counterclaiming Le Cupcake for this
because this is getting beyond retarded in terms of scum hunting. That's the only logical explanation for this line of argument.
I came around about that specific issue later when other players brought up their quotes and I checked the site. That's hardly the bulk of the argument though so I hope you got the rest of it too.

Yes. Or no.

Answer this question. Third time you've been asked. You're avoiding it.
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Post Post #1289 (ISO) » Sat Oct 09, 2010 4:04 pm

Post by Ythan »

It's not important. What's relevant about that question was that I saw that quotes were likely drawn from the site. What is not relevant is whether my role has a quote from the site. Quit fishing, just pull up your line and go home.
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Post Post #1290 (ISO) » Sat Oct 09, 2010 4:05 pm

Post by Hinduragi »

Wait, I'm done with my reread. One thing before I actually start typing up that bullshit catchup post, which probably won't even be that long. Ythan, when did you think Nikanor was scum and why do you think that?
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Post Post #1291 (ISO) » Sat Oct 09, 2010 4:05 pm

Post by Ythan »

Let me go dig up quotes for you. Since you just read the thread I wouldn't want to ask you to read the thread.
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Post Post #1292 (ISO) » Sat Oct 09, 2010 4:08 pm

Post by Lady Lambdadelta »

Ythan wrote:It's not important. What's relevant about that question was that I saw that quotes were likely drawn from the site. What is not relevant is whether my role has a quote from the site. Quit fishing, just pull up your line and go home.

What information specific to your role will I garner from you answering that question?

That you had a quote? That you didn't? TOTALLY REVEALING YOUR ROLE RIGHT THERE.

In other news, it IS relevant. If you don't have a quote in your PM, then your claim about Cupcake drawing the quote from the wiki could be relevant. If you do, then you're blowing smoke out your ass.

I'd like to know what you are claiming, so that I can reference it as evidence later on in the game.
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Post Post #1293 (ISO) » Sat Oct 09, 2010 4:09 pm

Post by Lady Lambdadelta »

EBWOP: By, "what you are claiming" I mean, whether you are claiming that you have a quote or not.
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Post Post #1294 (ISO) » Sat Oct 09, 2010 4:11 pm

Post by jenniwren »

Ythan wrote:
jenniwren wrote:Ythan, if you don't want to be called a bully
I don't recall saying that. :oops:
I don't think you said it in those words, but in your ISO 253 it seemed like you were bothered that LLD was calling you a bully.
Ythan wrote:
jenniwren wrote:Prefacing the word “goddess” with a descriptor like “aquatic” actually makes sense to me, as does the use of the word “verdant” to describe an earth goddess. (“Verdant” means “green with vegetation”; it is absolutely logical that it
could
be a descriptor of races/goddesses/ whatever. Also, Zwet’s flavor says “non-verdant races,” which heavily implies that some races
will
be “verdant whatever,” and logic tells me that those races will be associated with geographical locations such as forests that have an abundance of green vegetation.)
Except the only place we've seen it is specifically in reference to Barinade. You, like anyone else, needs to explain why non-foresty would be used to describe a giant jellyfish inside a whale's belly.
Zwet's claim says that he is NON-VERDANT. I am assuming that his being called NON-VERDANT would mean that some people are called VERDANT. Because of his abilities, the only people who can safely target him are VERDANT races. The mods must have had a reason for specifically labeling him NON-VERDANT and labeling others VERDANT; i.e., his ability that says only VERDANT races can attack him and not die automatically. There must be an important reason for their distinction.
Zwet's PM wrote:You are a Miller Reflexive Non-Verdant CPR Doctor. You have the following special abilities: <snip>
Bioelectrogenesis - If you are targeted by an ability, you will automatically unleash an electric barrage upon your targeter (the ability still goes through). Unless that person is from a verdant race or was targeted by a kill during the same phase, he will die at the end of the phase.
Ythan wrote:
jenniwren wrote:The scum are loving the confusion wrought by 50 pages in five days. Can we not do that again? I promise to try not to write anymore WoTs if we can avoid yet another explosion of "nyah-nyah"/"I rule and you drool" posts.
Except that we've been attacking obvscum the whole time so I doubt they're enjoying it too much. Or you're assuming that they're town and there's something wrong with you.
I'm not assuming anything about anyone; I'm trying to read the thread and examine the evidence. Some people aren't reading or are claiming to not be reading because of the unwieldiness of this thread; this means they may miss important information and evidence. Reading: Pro-town. Not reading: Anti-town. Clogging up the thread with useless insults so that people don't have the time or energy to sort through them to find real evidence: ANTI-TOWN.

Could you two summarize your cases against each other and then respond to each other with a point-by-point rather than this, again? Or SOMETHING else besides what you're doing?
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Post Post #1295 (ISO) » Sat Oct 09, 2010 4:12 pm

Post by Ythan »

Ythan wrote:Nik, she's
not aquatic
. I know you can't legitimately be buying into that bullshit claim. I don't wonder why you want me lynched, I only wonder how you'd spin it for town.
Ythan wrote:It is based on this picture that Nikanor is attempting to back up Cupcake's bad claim.

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2 ... ess%29.png

Yeah so aquatic.
This was particularly telling for me because Nikanor isn't just another VI. There were ways he could have argued against me that would have made a lot more logical sense than this, and unlike some other players in the game I think Nik could make a logical argument here if he believed what he was saying.
Ythan wrote:There doesn't have to be an alternative suggestion. It doesn't have to be aquatic goddess. I doubt the goddesses are in the game but if they were I'm sure they'd just be goddesses. And I'm opposing you because you're defending obvscum in obvlies.
He asks me to come up with something BETTER than aquatic that would have appeared in the claim. It's a fakeclaim, this is a moot point and I see no purpose for his question.

From here he seems to me to ignore that the case is about a hobbled together fakeclaim but because he is not the only player who missed that it isn't the worst part.
Ythan wrote:
Nik likes to talk about the conflict between my two flavor stances. The stances that scum could be any character and that Cupcake botched the flavor in her claim. Two stances that don't conflict.
Then he was the one that said Nayru is blue so she must be aquatic so Cupcake is telling the truth, of all the less retarded ways he could have defended the claim, and that I was scummy because I couldn't come up with a better "elemental modifier" for the fakeclaim. Etc.
And there's this. He attacked me early on based on this and never amended his mistake. This whole post actually is a pretty good summary.

That's the less recent material.
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Post Post #1296 (ISO) » Sat Oct 09, 2010 4:13 pm

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I just want him to answer a question. He is refusing.

I'll write all my points against him in a bit.
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Post Post #1297 (ISO) » Sat Oct 09, 2010 4:14 pm

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Lady Lambdadelta wrote:I'd like to know what you are claiming, so that I can reference it as evidence later on in the game.
You're not going to be here later in the game. :oops:

Jenni I already explained my take on verdant based on how the term is actually used in the game. And no I'm not going to summarize anything AGAIN. One summary per topic is plenty. I know it's a long thread but honestly there's an iso feature if you need it.
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Post Post #1298 (ISO) » Sat Oct 09, 2010 4:16 pm

Post by Ythan »

Lady Lambdadelta wrote:I just want him to answer a question. He is refusing.

I'll write all my points against him in a bit.
it's a stupid pointless question. If there was any relevant information I'd oblige but come on. With such an obvious answer (try actually reading my commentary on this) I'd rather just watch you struggle to come to such a plain conclusion on a meaningless topic on your own.
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Post Post #1299 (ISO) » Sat Oct 09, 2010 4:22 pm

Post by Lady Lambdadelta »

Points against Ythan include:

1. The push against Cupcake, based upon the assumption that Cupcake's claim is false. This would be fine... if he had any real reason to suspect this. The reason he gave for suspecting it: " Aquatic is not an elemental modifier for the Goddess Nayru". I proved that Aquatic is most likely a Modifier for Nayru, so there still remains the question of "What exactly is Ythan's problem with Cupcake's claim?"

2. When I try an prove that Nayru can be aquatic, Ythan tries to derail all arguments with illogical banter. I will admit I got into this too, after he instigated it... but I do my best to raise a point, that Ythan doesn't want raised, and thus he comes along and tries to smother it in meaning posts.

3. He's spammed this thread with posts that repeat things he's said a thousand times, and arguments that have no real relevance. I will admit to aiding this, by getting into the fight with Ythan, but this does not excuse him.

4. None of his arguments so far have been anything more than "It's right because I know it is, and you should believe me". This is just ridiculous. How can me to debate with him, when he only posts his subjective beliefs, with no objective proof or logical theory?

5. Just recently, he has avoided answering a simple question, and then accuses me of role fishing. The question would reveal nothing about his role, or it's alignment or power... yet he still refuses. Why?
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