Stars Aligned III - The Tenth Day

[Fate]

And don't make this back and forth last more than in has to, just DONT.

Your response to EVERYONES logical points are "well I don't know Fate's scum meta so its useless trying to go based off that. All I know is that IF SHE WERE TOWN SHE WOULD DO THIS." <- fucking moronic. I'm not stupid,

I

saw this coming, and if I had buddies to save me they would have. AND they would have ress'd me tonight.

But I don't.

So I have to claim and reason with a child in order to further a pro-town agenda.

[Benmage]

I think I can accept action.... let me ponder this. And despite your overwhelming kindness in how you presented this idea...ill put the emotional aspects aside and examine the underlying logic.

[AurorusVox]

if I had buddies to save me they would have. AND they would have ress'd me tonight.

Not if you're Cult and you all forgot to look for Res Kits

But I'm happy to see it done your way. Someone should Res you anyway just in case, y'know... >_>"

[ReaperCharlie]

I have no idea what the word fraying in my last post means....or how my phone put it there...

So what is your response to Fate's proposal?

[Fate]

Andrius #272, Plum #296, xvart #329 & #331, MoI #337 - mad props for commitment to sparkle motion, there. Fraid I can't match y'all.

ReaperCharlie - Eh, not sold on Seacore. I'll confess, I know him out of game, which might be flavouring it; but I had the same reaction reading those early posts as he did.

I'm still not sure about Furcolow's "confirmation". Yes, everything points that way, and he's not on my scumlist so far; but when you're trying to second guess mod mistakes, there's a strong chance that you're reading their moves the wrong way - seeing as how they don't have a win condition to filter it through. Keeping an open mind, here.

Love Percy's answer on Sadism. Would be willing to help engineer this situation for lulz.

Hito's #332. Yeah, fair point, I'll keep all my posts clumped together from now on.

By #342 I'm having trouble reading Andrius, due to my CAPSLOCK allergy. I'm sure he made many useful points.

My one thought of perhaps substantive use:
I don't think Hallucination belongs on that list of prohibited insanities; at least, not once somebody has heard unexplained noise at least once. There's a good townie deception play in fake-claiming hallucination; and it doesn't much of a mechanical benefit for cult from it, so far as I can see.

Wait, why is BenMage now not killing Fate?
Are we seriously going to let him claim a free insanity and not prove his townie-ness by following through on his threat? And we won't know if AV's scum until at least D3; so that's a fair while for all of us to live in doubt... I have no idea why scum would act like BenMage in the first place, but I can't help but think SpyreX is giving him an out. Maybe there is a fetish of Fate already out there, one not created by Benmage, who was actually stalking him. Maybe the cult is now concerned that more than one investigator with res kits will now be watching Fate's back; and would prefer this protective field dissipate. In that case, maybe you'd ask Benmage to commit publicly to NOT kill Fate, and then lead the charge to string him from the nearest tree at the start of Day 2, when Fate's body is found, scattered like sticky red confetti. Playing peacekeeper in this case is kinda suss, if you ask me.

Sorry, Seacore, I just don't see how Benmage's actions make for any sort of rational scum play. Even of the double/triple/quintuple bluff variety.

I'll

Vote: SpyreX

because I'm still not really sure why he's so sure both Benmage and Fate are town.

One of the worse votes in the game. When I skimmed his post I was about to give him pro-town points for making an obscure vote on SpyreX, but when I READ HIS ACTUAL REASONS I SEE THIS:

"Benmage makes no fuckin sense as scum. VoteSPySpy because he also sees Benmage makes no fucking sense as scum"

SOOOOOOOOO:

1. Furpants what the hell is your read on me? Are you afraid to take a stance on me?
2. Why would you not defer to another player's read on me? Or even question it other than "I'm not sure why they are so sure, must be scummeh"

Not taking a stab at my alignment+Criticizing someone else's read of my alignment=LE SCUMMMMMM.

(Seacore and Furpants are not scum together, furthering my "Seacore is town" agenda)

[Fate]

I think I can accept action.... let me ponder this. And despite your overwhelming kindness in how you presented this idea...ill put the emotional aspects aside and examine the underlying logic.

The logic is this:
You get confirmed as having stalked me.
I, someone who a

majority of the town

have agreed is town gets to live.
People begin to respect your ability to reason and act pro-town again.


Cons (or pros if you are sadistic like that):
Your actions got me to claim pre-emptively.
My night action is now known to scum tonight.
If I a fetish was crafted on me I'll be dead anyway

[Benmage]

Lets see...he thinks sea is town and furc is scum....his eloquent delivery has me thinking scum ploy to keep him alive.

Ill still think on it tho.

[Fate]

if I had buddies to save me they would have. AND they would have ress'd me tonight.

Not if you're Cult and you all forgot to look for Res Kits

But I'm happy to see it done your way. Someone should Res you anyway just in case, y'know... >_>"

A scummy player (VV) once said: "cult probably didn't target either Ben or Fate because they'd deal with eachotehr anyway lolz" which may in fact be what happened.

Plus limited rez kits are around, and Hitogoroshi heard noise as well <- HINT HINT LOOK HERE GUIZ, and he is (as much as my ego pains to admit it) a much greater town god than I.

[Fate]

Lets see...he thinks sea is town and furc is scum....his eloquent delivery has me thinking scum ploy to keep him alive.

Ill still think on it tho.

Disagreement on reads =/= ploy. I'm not completely sold on Furcolow scum, but trying to follow his train of thought this game is madness as he has switched tracks and stories so many times he reminds me of another player on another site who made absolutely no fucking sense ever as town (but was also a very exploitable target by scum).

There would be no NEED for a ploy if I had cult buddies to save me.

That's all I'm asking for you to get through your head.

Buddies+KNOWN ANIMOSITY=Preventative measures taken.

[Lost Butterfly]

Seacore's town btw. Kunkstar's also scum.

[Lost Butterfly]

Once again, Furc is in the right but still posts too damn much about it.

I go to the super ice cream fun store. Twenty seven flavors of ice cream! Yum. I decide that I want the Double Chocolate Hyperbanana ice cream - it's my favorite - and I tell the ice cream man at the counter such. However, woe is me, that is not actually a flavor of ice cream at the store! They used to have it, but they decided to add in some SuperStrawberry and you can't get the regular stuff anymore. So technically I've ordered nonexistant ice cream. But guess what? There is NO other ice cream in the store with EITHER Double Chococlate OR Hyperbanana. Double Chocolate Hyperbanana did used to be a flavor, too. So it's a technical error, because I should have looked at the menu and ordered Double Chocolate Hyperbanana SuperStrawberry, but there's

no ambiguity

, is there?

That's what I thought. Now unvote Furc and play the damn game.

'Hey we don't have that flavour, do you mean Double Chocolate Hyperbanana SuperStrawberry instead' would be what would generally happen in most ice cream stores.

Also in the sign up thread I'm pretty sure it was stated DGB wasn't in the hydra too, so it's not like hydra+1

[Lost Butterfly]

The Lost Butterfly, who dares not support Fate's lynch and will do anything he can to get rid of the people who do not 100% agree with the lynch on Fate. I can see him being a murder to get rid of his critics if he is indeed an Investigator.

Rephrase this? I get the last sentence, but I've no idea why you think that.

[Benmage]

Your reads aren't similar with mine and in my opinion incorrect on furc atleast.


The delivery of this plan is the ploy part.

Allow me to reanalyze later when at a computer ...and do yourself a favor and gone down the ridicule ....pm me all the hate mail you want.

[kunkstar7]

@kunkstar7 - why do you feel Furc doesn't understand the game? He played a good majority of the last game and technically could have won the game for town there. I think he has a well enough grasp on the mechanics even if he is misguided at times.

A player that states they know the game, yet turns around and then follows that up with, "oh I didn't read my role pm fully because it wasn't important" doesn't imply a strong handle on the game.

@ReaperCharlie: Have you progresses your read/case on Seacore past post #254? That's the first mention of Seacore within your posts and the last substantial time you mention him with the exception of "Vote seacore obvscum". If #254 is all there is to it I don't see a solid reason for the seacore wagon.

I go to the super ice cream fun store. Twenty seven flavors of ice cream! Yum. I decide that I want the Double Chocolate Hyperbanana ice cream - it's my favorite - and I tell the ice cream man at the counter such. However, woe is me, that is not actually a flavor of ice cream at the store! They used to have it, but they decided to add in some SuperStrawberry and you can't get the regular stuff anymore. So technically I've ordered nonexistant ice cream. But guess what? There is NO other ice cream in the store with EITHER Double Chococlate OR Hyperbanana. Double Chocolate Hyperbanana did used to be a flavor, too. So it's a technical error, because I should have looked at the menu and ordered Double Chocolate Hyperbanana SuperStrawberry, but there's no ambiguity, is there?

Using the same situation, would you not expect the ice cream man to clarify with the customer whether they still wanted the ice cream now that it included SuperStrawberry? This is the same concept as the lack of Percy's clarification regarding the name switch.

I'm liking Fate's idea regarding the the commune.

[Feysal]

Another wall of text, but thankfully I've caught up with posts now.

You posted on Mina basically to solely bend the rules in your favor because the mod was nice enough to let you Hydra. He has warned you, and is being too nice about this whole thing. You then say "furcolow is confirmed", in an ELABORATE post, then you vote me yourself a page later.

You know, if Percy accepted posting as Mina to be the same as posting as Lost Butterfly, that would work in your favor, because it implies that part of a hydra would be interpreted as the hydra. I don't get what you mean by this bending of rules. As for the vote, that came after Percy's hypothetical example, which Lost Butterfly interpreted in a different way. To me it actually looked like it confirmed your story of warding El Goosuki.

It is the opinion of myself, and I think others, that Fur submitting a ward action of a player that was not in the game would warrant a clarification email. At the very least, you'd think that Percy would send back "Drippereth isn't playing, would you be satisfied with the El Goosuki hydra, as it has both DGB and Elliberth in it"

That is where I disagree. We can't know how Percy interpreted this, but to me it looks like Furcolow is telling the truth. If he was anti-town, why in blazes would he be asking for attention by publicly posting this crazy action? What would be his purpose? I can't see any motive for him doing this as anti-town.

It certainly could be a co-incidence and there is no way to prove you weren’t away from the computer. That said looking at the manner in which you respond to things the 42 minutes it took you to simply say “I warded Player X” looks like you had to confer with your Cult partners for a good explanation.

This is a surprisingly good point. At least Furcolow did not make any other posts during those 42 minutes, that would look bad indeed if he had. But, it is still an inconclusive tell. He could well have been AFK, as you said.

MoI: I stopped reading the signup thread AN HOUR before they morphed into El Goosuki. AN HOUR.
I waited FORTY TWO MINUTES to respond to you? Big deal. Your only case on me is time? I have all the time in the world.

The fact that you trying to represent that case against your claim is ONLY based on timing is laughable. Really, comedy gold right there.

THANK you. It is incredible how Furcolow denies the validity of timing when it is used against him, but defends himself with his own, unverifiable, timing in reading the signup thread. Still... I'm glad you unvoted in #502, we need to get over this distraction.

Furcolow is so damn scummy, it's insane.

Insane could be the correct word for it, yes. I've never played with him, but I've played with others in a similar situation. I once had this great fight with someone who was flailing and vote jumping all over the place, and he turned out to be town after all. He hasn't been acting wisely, but that looks more like poor town play to me. If he were cult, he'd have fellow cultists to advise him in the QT. I've seen no sign of such an influence.

Furc’s self-stated assertions in thread that he

1. Did not bother to read the player list when choosing an action.
2. Didn’t bother reading his N0 role/action PM closely before choosing an action.

Indicates he’s not going to have planned and researched in advance IMO.

If he assumes that Warding will make him hear a noise, as that is how it operated in the previous game, then why would he say that he didn't hear a noise? If he was really lying about his actions, he would have said that he DID hear a noise.

Flawless logic here. If Furcolow had planned to false claim ward, he'd have definitely claimed to have heard noise. I see no room for reasonable doubt that he did in fact ward.

LISTEN UP:
Furc claimed himself

in the first place

that he warded El Goosuki.
THEN, when asked why El Goosuki, he explained he sent in Drippereth, and he didn't seem to know who El Goosuki was and thought about the alphabetical explanation.
What on

earth

do you suppose is the scum motivation for manufacturing that explanation? It was not like he had to cover up anything at that point, he himself volunteered after saying he targeted El Goosuki the alphabetical explanation that contains a mod policy that would be extremely easy to get caught about.
It makes no. bloody. sense. from scum who could simply make up a reason for targeting El Goosuki.

Quoted for truth. Now, time to move on. I think I'm going to have to do another read of Seacore's and Baby Spice's posts.

Moreover all anyone has todo is iso me in the signup thread...yes, the signup thread.

...

All that said. I am still killing fate.

I read the signup thread. Sure, you threatened to kill Fate, in fact you practically promised you would. So what. It still doesn't confirm anything unless you do it, or try. It looks like the town needs to decide whether to resuscitate Fate next night, and how many players we want to commit to this action. What I really hate is that this petty vendetta keeps players from protecting other scum targets, who might consequently die.

Fate's suggestion in #523 looks fine. As does AurorusVox's in #527 that someone should resuscitate Fate anyway in case he was targeted by cult also. But to avoid wasting too many resuscitation kits on one player, at the expense of others, perhaps the players who intend to protect Fate should claim so? Opinions?

Oh, there was another thing I wanted to say that might help guide people to their enlightenment. That is that sometimes the simplest answer is the correct one.

I was wondering when Occam's Razor would come up.

[Fate]

He promised to kill me in the sign-up thread?

Maybe I should've read these things....


but this really begs the question WHY WOULD NO ONE FUCKING WARD ME?

[Lost Butterfly]

*headdesk*

Wow. I certainly understand why Furc gets policy lynched all the time.

My god. Um, believe it or not...

no

, I didn't accidentally post from an alternate account as an evil plan to make ourselves harder to ISO and hide the change in opinions. I, Mina, made that long-winded post defending Furc, but was then confused by Percy's comment that he, and then went to bed. Then Percy responded, and Faraday decided Furcolow deserved a vote.

This is a little annoying. I remember Baltar saying in ACoK Mafia that a hydra that contradicts itself should be lynched, but I'm going to yell at my other head for a bit.

Faraday, let's just ignore his behaviour (I don't have experience with him, but if someone knows scum!Furc and thinks he's this confident, support your case) and the fact that Percy's answer was ambiguous enough to allow for Furc being town, and look at the facts:

1) First of all, the ward thing STRONGLY implies that Furc warded. He thought to claim he didn't hear noise AND warded. It would be hilarious if he'd forgot the rules from SAII and coincidentally botched his fake ward claim, but it would be an enormous coincidence. For now, I think the odds are in favour of Furc being town.

2) El Goosuki heard noise. The only explanation for Furc being scum would be:
i. El Goosuki is a scumbuddy who he'd warded or who'd told him they'd heard noise.
ii. Furc or another cultist crafted a fetish of El Goosuki, and Furc is covering his ass.
iii. Furc just made a lucky guess (even though no one has claimed to have warded Elli).

i. and ii. are by far the most likely. So what does that mean?

If El Goosuki heard noise and is town, that means they were targeted anyway. Either Furc crafted a fetish of Drippereth that was directed to El Goosuki, or Furc warded Drippereth and it was directed to El Goosuki. Furc's weird makes no sense

Fine, I'll retract my statement that Furc is confirmed and just say he's very very likely town. It's still possible Elli is Furc's scumbuddy, and they cooked up a fake noiseclaim in their QT for "confirmability," but that's kind of WIFOM. If Furc is only scum if Elli is, Furc isn't the lynch for today.

If he was scum, what the hell was the point of that random digression about Drippereth, anyway? Why didn't he just say he'd targeted El Goosuki?

Can we

please

unvote Furcolow? Pretty please?

UNVOTE: Furcolow

I need to read the last few pages to see if he'd explained his PM, though.

Also, I'm feeling worse about Seacore. I didn't like Seacore's responses to my questions. It felt too much like he was appeasing, and he never explained WHY he liked the Furc case in the first place.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Besides, why say something twice when there is only need to say it once? (that isn't to say that I don't like to repeat myself, but... yea)

This isn’t an answer. Regardless of whether you don’t want to repeat you chose to lambast the Hydra that I consider having of a weaker player (CSL) as opposed to the Hydra that has two strong players (Mina and Faraday). Bowser is an ‘easier’ target than Lost Butterfly so the inconsistency on your part appears as it might be opportunistic.

splain

I did in the original post. Do you want a flow chart or something?

Trilobyte made an unsupported vote for me. I saw it and ignored it. You quoted it with no real reason other than to tell them to vote Seacore. You could have done that just by saying “Hey Trilobyte – vote Seacore”. Thus I have some concerns about your motives for doing so.

Finally

@Reaper

– I’d like your opinion on Furc’s claimed scum. His current targets seems to be Lost Butteryfly, Fate, BabySpice and Seacore mostly because they have recently disagreed with them.

@Hito

– In general I think your list of Banned Insanities makes reasonable sense. Hallucination I find the least problematic but have no objections to it being there.

@AV

– Your response to Spyrex’s 351 at 492 is underwhelming.

Yeah its an insane theory, but two scum for the price of one would be pretty epic.

The most insane part of your theory is that you only are saying it would catch 2 scum. Your theory would identify Furc, El Goo (who would have to be Cult to be posting in the QT, duh) and myself as Cult so you would be catching three.

And the person in point 7 who asked about the clarification was me.

Love Percy's answer on Sadism. Would be willing to help engineer this situation for lulz.

So you would like to essentially wreck the game that Percy spend copious time putting together and many players have looked forward to for a long time simply for the lulz?

MagnaofIllusion's first post bothers me a little. He claims we won't get a lot of information out of hearing noises. I agree with that, but what bothers is that he then asks for volunteers for people who did not hear noise. I'd like to know from him if we'll gain more information from asking for volunteers for people who did not hear noise then people who did hear noise and if not, what is his purpose for doing so.

I had made a quick mental calculation and assessed that it was likely that Cult could have crafted a large number of Fetishes if they wanted (Wards not-withstanding) and thus was hoping that we could get a relatively small pool of not ‘hearing noises’ that might contain a disproportionate number of Cultists. As the thread developed it became apparent that this was not going to happen.

Mutilation could be good for certain players. If someone specializes in resuscitating, that player is probably going to be bloody often anyway.

Actually Rez kits are destroyed if you are bloody and cannot be searched for if you are under that condition so this isn’t a good reason for Mutilation to be a viable option.

I dislike having an inactive vote so my vote with go to

VOTE: AV
Spyrex's cases on you are very compelling and I've yet to see anything out of you that significantly refutes them.

[ReaperCharlie]

@ReaperCharlie: Have you progresses your read/case on Seacore past post #254? That's the first mention of Seacore within your posts and the last substantial time you mention him with the exception of "Vote seacore obvscum". If #254 is all there is to it I don't see a solid reason for the seacore wagon.

Hmmm... how about cause I said so?

1. He is scum
2. We lynch him
3. ?????
4. Profit!

Besides, why say something twice when there is only need to say it once? (that isn't to say that I don't like to repeat myself, but... yea)

This isn’t an answer. Regardless of whether you don’t want to repeat you chose to lambast the Hydra that I consider having of a weaker player (CSL) as opposed to the Hydra that has two strong players (Mina and Faraday). Bowser is an ‘easier’ target than Lost Butterfly so the inconsistency on your part appears as it might be opportunistic.

Don't care. 'sides, I've never played with CSL or Mina to my knowledge, and I know I talk to Faraday with just as much ... "gusto" ... as I talk to anyone else. And I don't even know who's in the Bowser hydra. Don't even care, tbh. They were being stupid, so I said so. Looking back, Lost Butterfly was being stupid as well (jk, I didn't look back, I just wanted to take a cheap shot at Faraday).

Still though, for the sake of being informed, I tried to figure out who Bowser was. just looked at the OP in this thread (nothing), the OP of the sign up thread (nothing), and ISO'd the sign up thread for Bowser and CSL (nothing). I finally clicked the link in Bowser's sig which led me to http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=15514 ...k. So it's CSL and Untrod Tripod..... what's your point?

I mean, it could have been a Xyl/Vi hydra, and I STILL would have said what I said, in the same way I said it. Which, for the record, was:
"BOO HOO. CRY ME A RIVER BUILD A BRIDGE AND GET THE F%$& OVER IT."

splain

I did in the original post. Do you want a flow chart or something?

Yes, I want a flow chart.

Trilobyte made an unsupported vote for me. I saw it and ignored it. You quoted it with no real reason other than to tell them to vote Seacore. You could have done that just by saying “Hey Trilobyte – vote Seacore”. Thus I have some concerns about your motives for doing so.

What, do you want a flow chart or something?

Finally @Reaper – I’d like your opinion on Furc’s claimed scum. His current targets seems to be Lost Butteryfly, Fate, BabySpice and Seacore mostly because they have recently disagreed with them.

I think my opinions about Seacore are clear. As for Lost Butterfly, they seem schizophrenic and I don't like them much. BabySpice seems more useless than scummy. And as usual I think Fate is ridiculously hard to read. But I'm leanin' town for now, based on the Benmage interactions. Benmage on the other hand is decidedly anti-town, regardless of his alignment. I wouldn't be averse to a Benmage lynch if it comes down to it.

Anything else?

[Benmage]

Oh wools I confused reaper with a different Mafia player sorry.

[ReaperCharlie]

Also, more @ the Seacore question. Overwhelming gut.

For a bit of history on my gut and its ABSOLUTE INFALLIBILITY, read the last paragraph of ReaperCharlie/Game_Record#Gears_of_War_Mafia, specifically the six or seven posts to which I link.

Cliff notes (for the lazy):

Jack was scum, nobody would listen to me, and he killed us all.

Moral of the whole story:

When nobody listens to me, BAD THINGS HAPPEN TO THE TOWN.

[ReaperCharlie]

And remember, I HAVE EATEN EXACTLY ZERO HATS SINCE JOINING MAFIASCUM.

[SpyreX]

God in heaven. So many pages.

THIS POST ACTUALLY NEEDS MOST OF THE WORDS READ BY NOT JUST PEOPLE DIRECTLY INVOLVED.

Wait, why is BenMage now not killing Fate?
Are we seriously going to let him claim a free insanity and not prove his townie-ness by following through on his threat? And we won't know if AV's scum until at least D3; so that's a fair while for all of us to live in doubt... I have no idea why scum would act like BenMage in the first place, but I can't help but think SpyreX is giving him an out. Maybe there is a fetish of Fate already out there, one not created by Benmage, who was actually stalking him. Maybe the cult is now concerned that more than one investigator with res kits will now be watching Fate's back; and would prefer this protective field dissipate. In that case, maybe you'd ask Benmage to commit publicly to NOT kill Fate, and then lead the charge to string him from the nearest tree at the start of Day 2, when Fate's body is found, scattered like sticky red confetti. Playing peacekeeper in this case is kinda suss, if you ask me.

Sorry, Seacore, I just don't see how Benmage's actions make for any sort of rational scum play. Even of the double/triple/quintuple bluff variety.

I'll Vote: SpyreX because I'm still not really sure why he's so sure both Benmage and Fate are town.

Alright, lets preface this with something being brought up that needs to stop: MURDERING PEOPLE IS NOT A GOOD WAY TO SHOW YOU ARE 'TOWN'. IT, IN FACT, LOST THE LAST GAME LEARN FROM MISTAKES.

Especially not now. Especially not N0. Especially not after saying you're gonna go through with it after being told that is a baaad idea. Good god Plum posted the correct path to murdering and I even quoted it there is no excuse for ignoring it.

Now, as to why both of them are town. Lets play follow the thought processes:

Benmage goes "I've got beef with Fate. I'm going to stalk him N0. I heard no noise which means Fate didn't stalk me. The reason for this is because he CANT stalk me, hence scum"

There is method to that madness. Further, it makes no sense as a scum move because he would be outed right quick. So, this has to be a town move.

However, Fate goes "Stalking N0 is retarded. I am not retarded. Thus, I didn't stalk you."

and then explodes into rage

at having to try and explain this point.

WHICH IS TRUE. AND JUSTIFIED.

As scum there'd be some hate but, ultimately, not a lot of worry. Fate

is

worried.

As for giving Ben an out? YES I AM. He's already done an F-- job in picking suicidal. Going through with this is bonkers madness and HE REALLY SHOULD THINK OTHERWISE.

Hokay, onto topic two: Fur.

I can't believe we have to go through this but:

If, however, there is a technical error but no ambiguity, I will accept the action as-is. An example would be someone who submitted the Night Action

1. I am very welcoming to our hydra brethren, but I do insist that you declare to me who is in the hydra before the beginning of the game; if you do add someone else, please tell me!

/reserve spot.
Might be in hydraaa.

OHHAI

So, lets use a different example to tie into this: If I get too busy swimming in my millions of space dollars for a game and decide N2 to hydra with Mecha Godzilla the mod isn't going to ask if someone shot death lasers at SpyreX reaaallly meant Mecha SpyreX because ITS THE SAME DAMN PERSON. DGB = Drip = El Gooski.

This, ON TOP OF the initial clarification my god. I really need to go through and look and see if anyone is actually pushing play because there IS scum on this wagon.

Now, Fur, take a step back and stop feeding this fire.

WHY AM I WROTH WITH THIS THOUGH REALLY?

The above is dominating everything. Everything. And its bad.

Like I said above, I've never played with any of you. I can't read any of you well enough to form much of an opinion yet, and most of those 250 posts were by Fate, Benmage and Furcolow, the very players I mentioned. I'm still forming my opinions on the others. Also, I made that post at 3 AM, after a solid 3 hours reading. Not the optimal conditions to read the metas of other players.

I said absolutely ZERO about meta. Because meta is stupid.

However, that doesn't change that you said "I want to comment on 5 posts" and that is a cop out. Meta has nothing to do with it. Good lord this game has more going on that most in the early pages and FIVE posts?

No.

The finale though:

To be clear; I believe that Benmage IS lying but I'd rather be wrong about him being scum and have him confirmed by killing Fate, than to try to lynch someone who can confirm themselves as town.

The reasons that I think he is lying are: He seemed eager to lynch Fate and/or not shoot Fate, which makes me think he didn't stalk Fate. He has the chance to confirm himself as town and yet would rather lynch the guy than get that confirmation. It smells off. Add to that this hypocritical idea that Benmage has that Fate wouldn't craft his fetish if he was cult, and I'm not really sure where he's coming from at all.

Oorrrr you want chucklehead to kill Fate doing some of the work for you.

BECAUSE NO OTHER WORLD DOES "OHH HE CLAIMED A STALK BETTER NOT LYNCH THE GUY I THINK IS SCUM" make sense.

Good LORD I need the skinny on whatever is going on with Seacore because YOU GUYS NEED TO GET ABOARD THE MURDER TRAIN.

I MEAN YOU ARE VOTING FOR MOI FFS

[hitogoroshi]

Limited time right now so I'll just hit the most important highlights.

First: Totally my bad missing that it says kills will be flavored in the Q&A. Eliminates basically my entire vestigial doubt on Benmage.

Using the same situation, would you not expect the ice cream man to clarify with the customer whether they still wanted the ice cream now that it included SuperStrawberry? This is the same concept as the lack of Percy's clarification regarding the name switch.

Not if the ice cream man said he would accept unambiguous orders as-is. Yes, coming in with no prior knowledge, I'd expect the mod to ask for clarification - but Percy made sure to EXPLICITLY point out that he would NOT ask for clarification if the intent was clear. It's a fair point that most people would ask for clarification, but the mod took pains to point out that he is following a different approach. Everyone seems to be saying that the post I linked is what confirms Furc as town, which is silly. The digression regarding technical errors with clear intent is clearly what's important here.

Regarding the Fate and Benmage plan: I really, really hate to point this out, because the smart money is on both Fate and Ben being town and a believed role-confirm would put it all to rest. But sadly, Fate's plan doesn't work. If Ben is scum with no insanities, he can just launder for the insanity before commune comes up. It proves nothing - you're going to get a "strictly more insanities" result regardless of what his alignment is.

I propose something far more radical. Look at the circumstance of the thread

and treat each other as tentatively cleared entirely because of the in-thread events.

Buddy up, or at least just start ignoring each other, and scumhunt without looking at the other. Fate seems to agree that Ben is town - Ben, can you agree that Fate's reaction in-thread strongly points towards him being town? There will be plenty of time in subsequent days to re-evaluate the reads on each of you, when there's actually wagons and such to analyze. I'm not asking you to treat each other confirmed forever, but by day one standards of information, can you agree that the whole thing is seriously unlikely to be a scum ploy?

[hitogoroshi]

EBWOP:

Everyone seems to be saying that the post I linked is what confirms Furc as

as scum, not town

, which is silly. The digression regarding technical errors with clear intent is clearly what's important here.