Stars Aligned III - The Tenth Day

[Benmage]

I don't recall pursuing your lynch that long.

Tomorrow when you're dead... I mean my "shindig" turns out to be an act. And I'm not?confirmed town. It would've been wise to have not?warded me.

[VasudeVa]

we note that you believe that MoI is "bullying" furc, but you don't actually say whether you agree or disagree on the points he made.
If MoI makes good points about how Furc's case is sillysauce.
Then so what bullying?
Bullying bad case is scummy?
Sometimes town is stupid and needs bully.
Do you think MoI's defense points are bad? Yes/no?

We've all been scum at some point right? If you're scum, you kind of have to do two things:
1. Spread bad stuff around for mislynches.
2. Appear Town to not get mislynched.

If you're Town, it's a different mindset.
1. Help around
2. Don't get mislynched by helping around.

Of course, these two examples are in a perfect world....but that just makes MoI...PERFECTLY SCUMMY.

It's not because of why he defends himself, because that I can understand. It's how he defends himself and how he's supposedly 'contributing' in thread, when in reality he's so obvscum, it's kinda silly.

MoI is focusing on these things and these things

alone

. He's not trying to help Town, he's not getting Town reads, he's not boosting bad morale, he's a poisonous presence in our Town and he must die. He is deliberately getting away with the bullshit he is spreading because he thinks he can get away with it.

Let's take a look at MoI's 'contributions' in the thread with an ISO!

ISO 0: Other stuff, Bully Furc
ISO 1: Bully Furc
ISO 2: Other stuff, Bully Furc
ISO 3: Note's RC's defense of Furc, indirectly bullying Furc
ISO 4: Bad theory about Furc fakeclaiming ward as cult
ISO 5: Bully Furc
ISO 7: Bully Furc
ISO 8: Some other stuff, still bullying Furc
ISO 9: Bad attacks on Furcolow with time stamps, implying daytalk shenanigans
ISO 10: Bully Furc
ISO 11: Otherstuff, fluff
ISO 12: Attack AV for defending Furc, Bully Furc
ISO 13: Unvote Furc since everyone was backing off at this point
ISO 14: Otherstuff, vote AV
ISO 15-17: Stuff stff
ISO 18: Calls me out on my attack on him, The buzzword is 'Rhetoric'. Calling my attacks 'rhetoric' to discredit a perfectly good interpretation of his posts.
ISO 19-20: Calls me out on more rhetoric stuff, calls my attacks out as bad attacks when they aren't since other people agreed with them(Trilo, IIRC.) Using more buzzwords to discredit calling me a crappy player etc. Makes mistakes seem worse than they really are, instead of objectively analyzing stuff. Uses the mistakes in the links as an excuse to further discredit an attacker.
ISO 21: Calls RC out with an ISO, calling stuff rhetoric OMGUS and buddying. <--More Rhetoric buzzwords on people who attack him! (Bonus: He's careful enough to not use the same defense on the same person. Clever.)
ISO 22: Stuff
ISO 23: Bully Reaper
ISO 24: Bully multiple people, attempting to discredit them by making fun of them. (Hahaha, Passive agression. That's so MoI. I seem to recall somewhere that passive agression is a scumtell~)
ISO 25: Passive agression, bully people.
ISO 26-28: Stuff
ISO 29: Bully furc, calling Furc's statistics attacks on him crap.(Understandable buuutt....
ISO 30: Rehashes Furcs statistics attacks and proceeds o make fun of him more even if the point has been made. I actually think that this is very transparents of his true intentions. It's D1, on an Open game where everyone is a JoAT. There should be no survival instincts for Town, not at this stage at least. All his efforts in the game are FOCUSED on either deflecting attacks on him, and them bullying people to make it seem like he's scumhunting.
ISO 31: Stuff.

Soo yeah. MoI is scum. Period. If he isn't lynched today, I'll be stalking him tonight. HEY MoI. GIT YO CULT BUDDIES TO WARD YOU AGAIN TONIGHT, AI'GHT?

[VasudeVa]

EBWOP:
MoI is focusing on these things and these things alone. He's not trying to help Town, he's not getting Town reads, he's not boosting

bad

morale, he's a poisonous presence in our Town and he must die. He is deliberately getting away with the bullshit he is spreading because he thinks he can get away with it.

[Furcolow]

@Wraith:
you are calling fate "your top town read", yet you bolded WHY I AM TOWN?
Am I not your top town read?

also, you say I should die in lylo, but I'd like to point out a game where I won for the town in lylo:
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=14722

Good lord Furc I love you man.

This is the wrong tree again though. Get back to good trees.

what do you mean?

[Furcolow]

i also wouldnt care to lynch triglav because i dislike reading his posts, he is all intellect with no soul

[Furpants_Tom]

I don't recall pursuing your lynch that long.

Tomorrow when you're dead... I mean my "shindig" turns out to be an act. And I'm not?confirmed town. It would've been wise to have not?warded me.

Is anyone else confused by this post? Ben, are you saying we should ward you tonight or not? And what's the "shindig"?

[AurorusVox]

My suspicion is that there are a bunch of people who want to distance themselves from what they perceive as an almost inevitable RC lynch.

Why would people want to distance themselves from it, unless it was a mislynch? Town should be vocal if they think it's a mislynch; scum would be quiet so as to not derail it. But RC can't be a mislynch AND still be worthy of your vote at the same time. It has to be one or the other. You can't lynch him as scum and then cast suspicion on the people who don't want to, unless you're suggesting that they're trying to not bus? But why would they try to not bus, if they think that it's "almost inevitable"? It makes no sense. There's something not quite right about this post.

---

Wraith, I think that the idea of rezzing Fate is no longer viable, since he we only get the flavour of his kill if he actually dies (this was a mistake that I made when reading the rules in SAII). So either we sanction the murder of Fate to clear BenMage and DO NOT res Fate -- or we drop the plan entirely. I think we're going with the latter now.

[VasudeVa]

Making my rounds of catching people online and then subtly manipulating them to my target's lynch.

Shazah Furpants-eth! What dost thou thinketh of my caseth to MoI-eth?

How-dee-do AV! You reckon you be votin' MoI so we get git-r-done widda' scum lynch by high noon?

Note to self: Stereotypical online accents probably need some work.

[Furpants_Tom]

Shazah Furpants-eth! What dost thou thinketh of my caseth to MoI-eth?

At first glance, I like it, a lot. However, I don't really know if that's because he's scum, or just because he's been behaving like a pompous bully. I suspect the latter. Although I think his behaviour has been bad for the town, I don't believe that it's an automatic scumtell, and he has put his finger on a number of genuinely good points over the day. I wouldn't be happy to lynch him today without further evidence.

[VasudeVa]

That's exactly it though..He's perfectly scummy, in the sense that it's difficult to find dirt on him outside of that. That's probably all the dirt you'll get out of him at this stage. Scummy, yes. But it's not D1 scummy, it's endgame lynch scummy because he's been playing good with it.

I know I'm fighting an uphill battle here, but he simply cannot get away with his bullshit by bullying his way out of them.

[Seacore]

My suspicion is that there are a bunch of people who want to distance themselves from what they perceive as an almost inevitable RC lynch.

Why would people want to distance themselves from it, unless it was a mislynch? Town should be vocal if they think it's a mislynch; scum would be quiet so as to not derail it. But RC can't be a mislynch AND still be worthy of your vote at the same time. It has to be one or the other. You can't lynch him as scum and then cast suspicion on the people who don't want to, unless you're suggesting that they're trying to not bus? But why would they try to not bus, if they think that it's "almost inevitable"? It makes no sense. There's something not quite right about this post.

I'm saying that I think there are a bunch of townies who have a feeling that we're wrong about RC (I disagree, I think we're dead on) but don't know where to put their votes. Maybe they have been beaten by the post count.
Yes they should speak up. I was trying to provoke them into speaking up.

I'm not trying to call them scum, I"m calling them anti-town because they aren't helping. Find a legit case to get on. No other options.

Nice cropping of my post by the way. I think when you look at it without the bits you deleted its pretty clear that I"m asking people to contribute, not calling people scum.

[Seacore]

In fact, the following people need to contribute immediately. And by contribute I mean either vote for one of the 4 main wagons

with reasons

or provide a case as to why their suspect is so much better than any of the likely wagons that it is worth staying on them.

Benmage
Lost Butterfly,
VP Baltar
manho
Andrius
Wickedestjr
hitorogoshi,
Wraith

[Baby Spice]

VV. MoI is scummy because he hasn't done anything scummy?

Or have I misunderstood.

[Seacore]

VV. MoI is scummy because he hasn't done anything scummy?

Or have I misunderstood.

Well, he's been bullying somebody, potentially with malicious intent.

Apart from that, no scum tells... but we couldn't expect many scum tells from somebody who is good at being scum...

yeah, not a strong argument.

[Seacore]

HEY MoI. GIT YO CULT BUDDIES TO WARD YOU AGAIN TONIGHT, AI'GHT?

MagnaofIllusion (Warded by Baby Spice and xvart) - Heard Noises (7), Did not Ward (7)

So which one is scum with MoI? Baby Spice or xvart?

[VasudeVa]

Superdupergutcall sez Baby Spice as MoI's Ward-buddy.

Seacore summed it up quite nicely.

Well, if you're looking for Tells, Passive Aggression sure hits the mark. I vaguely remember here being a thread somewhere in MD that was about that..or at least someone brought it up.

I'm not really a 'tell' player though, nor have I ever used tells. I detect intent by reading posts. Malicious intent be soarin' with MoI's ISO.

[Wraith]

My day today is packed and probably won't be able to get back on again until late evening or night. On Benmage/Fate: Honestly, I want to lynch Benmage today, because I'm like 90% sure he'll murder Fate tonight anyways. I'll ISO RC when I get home and see if it's enough for my vote. Probably will be.

[Wraith]

Okay, I can on board with an RC lynch.

Vote: ReaperCharlie

HOWEVER, if he does flip town, we really need to take a look at xvart and AV( I think it was AV).

RC, why, exactly do you think Seacore is scum?

[VP Baltar]

After I finish working this morning, I'll get back into reading this game. No promises I'll finish today given how far back I am, but I'll give what I can of my free time today to reading here.

[Seacore]

Superdupergutcall sez Baby Spice as MoI's Ward-buddy.

Seacore summed it up quite nicely.

Well, if you're looking for Tells, Passive Aggression sure hits the mark. I vaguely remember here being a thread somewhere in MD that was about that..or at least someone brought it up.

I'm not really a 'tell' player though, nor have I ever used tells. I detect intent by reading posts. Malicious intent be soarin' with MoI's ISO.

Well, I was mocking your case...

And I don't think you can blame anybody for being malicious towards Furc, he begs for it.

[VasudeVa]

Well, I was mocking your case...

And I don't think you can blame anybody for being malicious towards Furc, he begs for it.

YOU WERE!? OMG. WELL. I MOCK YOUR CASE TOO. MOCKMOCKMOCKMOCKMOCK.

---

The main difference is he is being

overly

malicious on Furc.

I can understand people being malicious on Furc, sure. But if you read them, MoI's attacks on Furc are simply not from a Townie perspective. If you remember correctly, some people were actually trying to figure out what to do with Furc.

He was ignoring Furcolow's attempts at explanations, answering fluff with fluff and some other things. (Srsly, ISO MoI's and Furcolow's interactions before you berate my case.)

[xvart]

I can't possibly sum up the ENTIRE wagon on me in one post, though I did give it my best shot. So I'm sure I missed something. I grabbed all the posts where the VOTE:REAPER was there, and I put them together. Yeah this has drawbacks, but it took a pretty dang long time and I feel like I was RELATIVELY objective.

I also put together at the bottom of the post a list of all the points against me. Yours were at the bottom. I laughed at yours.

The inherent problem with your defense that instead of going for a couple solid discrediting of some of the bigger points is you scatter shot everyone's case, and you did it pretty poorly. You look to me to be trying to undermine the entire wagon with one swoop and by casting suspicion (albeit weakly) against everyone currently voting for you.

You laughed at my points against you? Funny, because I laughed at your attempt to get a wagon on the only viable person that was voting you. It almost worked, too.

ReaperCharlie

- In post 1104 you said this:

Wait, I thought the Cult could kill each night regardless of stalking.

Fetishes give people extra insanities, and the Ritual kills 'em, right?

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

What was this in reference to? Was this comment just out of the blue or was it directed at someone or some discussion point currently going on?

Also, do you still believe I was trying to pull the wool over everyone's eyes by picking the ward target at the complete opposite end of the alphabetical list, even though I wrote in the Noise/Ward List you quoted:

Noises/Ward List 1.05 (FINAL FINAL)

MagnaofIllusion

(Warded by Baby Spice and xvart)

-

Heard Noises

(7), Did not Ward (7)

Miscellaneous thoughts:

+@XVart: Though your counter-argument refuted Reaper's case in its entirety, there's one thing I'm concerned with: Why didn't you claim warding Magna immediately after Baby Spice did? Naturally, our tendency to recognize familiar details would certainly have raised thoughts in yourself about whether or not to claim Warding Magna when you see Baby Spice did so.

I didn't see Baby Spice claim her Ward target. Here and here are two posts where I explain why I didn't claim when Baby Spice claimed.

Noises/Ward List 1.01...

Sexy.

I will comment later on why I want Furcolow alive.

Noises/Ward List 1.03

Mmmm, spicy and delicious.

Not to defend your claims of buddying; and I'm hesitant to say anything in defense of RC, but the record should show that I don't really see these comments as buddying. RC and I have been in a couple of games where similar lists have been made, so that accounts for the banter back and forth regarding the lists, color coding, sexy, etc.

Shazah Furpants-eth! What dost thou thinketh of my caseth to MoI-eth?

At first glance, I like it, a lot. However, I don't really know if that's because he's scum, or just because he's been behaving like a pompous bully. I suspect the latter. Although I think his behaviour has been bad for the town, I don't believe that it's an automatic scumtell, and he has put his finger on a number of genuinely good points over the day. I wouldn't be happy to lynch him today without further evidence.

What are your thoughts on Fate? Have you explicitly stated them somewhere?

xvart.

[Fate]

Unvote
Vote: Benmage

I will have a rally-esque post tonight on why this is the best move. What kind of rally?

The Rally to Restore Sanity

It will be epic.

It will be awe-inspiring.

And most of all, it will be convincing.


RC nay-sayers look out, the real alternate viable is coming tonight to a forum near you.

Peace, I'm on my way to the actual rally to prepare the mood.

[Fate]

(No one vote Ben or make any comments on him until I get back. Please don't ruin this for me by spoiling it)

Thanks in advance

[MagnaofIllusion]

MoI, do you disagree that scum post on average, less than town?

Yes, I disagree from the standpoint that your statement is attempting to assert behaviour in a broad-brush variety. Whether an individual player lurks more as scum than Town depends on the player. You can’t realistically say someone like MPR lurks more as scum than Town. So a broad, general statement is something I will likely not agree with.

3. Fate is currently my top townread. I'm going to give MoI the benefit of the doubt for now (his scum meta is difficult to differentiate from his town behavior), but I have to say, if he isn't dead by the cult's or a murderer's hands by Day 3 I'll start getting suspicious. Most others here I'm fairly neutral on.

I was wondering how long this would take to catch up with me here on MS. 9 months is not bad, I suppose. I guess I should be somewhat proud to be making my way into the "Too good to survive this long without being Scum" ranks here also.

It's not because of why he defends himself, because that I can understand. It's how he defends himself and how he's supposedly 'contributing' in thread,

when in reality he's so obvscum, it's kinda silly.

Bolded the rhetoric for emphasis. You make cry buzzword all you wish but statements like this show exactly why you are using rhetoric and Appealing to Repetition. The more you say I’m scum the more people will believe you, right? No matter how little you have to support your assertion with.

ISO 18: Calls me out on my attack on him, The buzzword is 'Rhetoric'. Calling my attacks 'rhetoric' to discredit a perfectly good interpretation of his posts.

Oh, the irony. Do you not know what rhetoric is? Because that’s exactly what you are doing … calling me scum without any reasoning and hoping if you throw it against the wall enough times it sticks.

Meanwhile you have been throwing “Bully” and “Fluff” at me constantly. Calling my posts fluff doesn’t make them so. So your attack on me here for using buzzwords while you are doing THE EXACT SAME THING is complete hypocricy.

MoI is focusing on these things and these things alone. He's not trying to help Town, he's not getting Town reads, he's not boosting bad morale, he's a poisonous presence in our Town and he must die. He is deliberately getting away with the bullshit he is spreading because he thinks he can get away with it.

The first sentence is quite frankly pure bullshit, but luckily anyone can see that. I’ve certainly spent plenty of time addressing other players in searching for scum. Your perspective is just that – your biased and tunnelled perspective.

As for not getting Townreads let’s see from not so long ago –

Quit drinking the crazy juice Fate. The only time I ever see anyone say “This person is obvscum but we can lynch them any time” is when they are scum.

Don’t make me rethink my Town read on you.

This shows your assertion is a fabrication. Here’s a hint – just because I don’t scream about my Town reads doesn’t mean I don’t have them.

As to the other things you mentioned – meh. When I see you assert something that’s a scum-tell I’ll respond.

Soo yeah. MoI is scum. Period. If he isn't lynched today, I'll be stalking him tonight. HEY MoI. GIT YO CULT BUDDIES TO WARD YOU AGAIN TONIGHT, AI'GHT?

Once again you show your general inability to make a coherent Scum read, just like in the recent AGM game that ended. Please go ahead and try to Murder me. It will show, just like Benmage, you are so tied to you personal emotional state (and lets face it, this all started when I pointed out your general scum-hunting ineptitude) that you can’t play in a rational Pro-Town manner. If you succeed in killing me it will just show that you were off-based and completely Anti-Town.

@1457

– More unsupported Appeals to Repetition. Keep up the good work with your fallacies. While tempting to think you are scum for such obvious use of fallicies I will not because I’ve seen your scum games and know you don’t generally make cases this poor when you are scum.

That's exactly it though..He's perfectly scummy, in the sense that it's difficult to find dirt on him outside of that. That's probably all the dirt you'll get out of him at this stage. Scummy, yes. But it's not D1 scummy, it's endgame lynch scummy because he's been playing good with it.

I’m perfectly scummy because you can’t find any scum-tells and are trying to sell abrasiveness as one. Classic. Glad to see you are more focused on finding scum who aren’t playing scummy as opposed to those who are.

And this post perfectly contradicts your earlier attempts to assert I was scum via behavioral / metatells. So where you just making crap up earlier in the thread when you fail-tempted to assert my behaviour played to a non-supportable ‘scum meta’?

I'm not really a 'tell' player though, nor have I ever used tells. I detect intent by reading posts. Malicious intent be soarin' with MoI's ISO.

It is pretty clear that you are a not a Tell player. Because asserting ‘maliciousness’ as scum intent is ludicrous if you can’t exactly demonstrate how I would benefit as scum from doing it.

The main difference is he is being overly malicious on Furc.

Oh look, now it’s overly malicious. Care to explain how it is so? And despite your opinion that it is not from a Town perspective until you can come up with a valid and viable Scum reason you are just shouting out ‘My opinion is all I have”

He was ignoring Furcolow's attempts at explanations, answering fluff with fluff and some other things. (Srsly, ISO MoI's and Furcolow's interactions before you berate my case.)

Look, more buzzword bingo (fluff) as I pointed out earlier. You must be scum for using buzzwords, right?