Reckamonic's Ocarina of Time Mafia..OVER! Was Hyrule saved?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

And I'm just going to point out, I'm not trying to get a read on scum with this train of thought... I'm just wondering if its a result of Nameloc's role... or if something else is placing these things on him.

[RayFrost]

Mafuyu said earlier that the vote was the result of braking a requirement in Mafuyu's role. I could speculate as to the reasons that such a role would exist but I'd rather not without more information, at least. For now, don't mind nameloc. He'll be a danger to town when it gets closer to lylo, but not a risk at the moment.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Mafuyu said earlier that the vote was the result of braking a requirement in Mafuyu's role. I could speculate as to the reasons that such a role would exist but I'd rather not without more information, at least. For now, don't mind nameloc. He'll be a danger to town when it gets closer to lylo, but not a risk at the moment.

I missed that. Thanks.

Ugh, this is gonna be another one of those 80 page days... isn't it? >.<

[nameloc1986]

Mafuyu said earlier that the vote was the result of braking a requirement in Mafuyu's role.

I can confirm this.

Hey BE, do you mind actually laying out your case against LLD?

[nameloc1986]

Also listen, I got confirmation from the mods that the votes are permanent and can't be removed.

[Beefster]

I will use my rolling attack in the open. I have not sent it yet.

[Beefster]

Sweet. If I hit an empty wagon, I can attack again.

Back in a sec.

[Beefster]

Following the -13 shift hypothesis...

Unvote

just in case

ROLLING ATTACK: jmj3000's (nonexistent) wagon

I hope to hit LLD's wagon, thereby stripping BE of his doublevote.

[Beefster]

And roleblocking him. That should help.

[Beefster]

This isn't spectacularly important, but I think Mafuyu has a posting restriction that forces her to speak in 3rd person. Maybe she's Tingle. END OF SPECULATION.

[RayFrost]

Mafuyu always spoke/speaks in third person. It's something she does regardless of role unles the role restricts such an action.

[nameloc1986]

This isn't spectacularly important, but I think Mafuyu has a posting restriction that forces her to speak in 3rd person. Maybe she's Tingle. END OF SPECULATION.

Hey dude, I replaced Mafuyu and I am not speaking in third person.

Though maybe nameloc should. Though it might get annoying fast and nameloc will go crazy.

[mothrax]

Nik: your point on sages being scum if they have not attacked another sage is pure shite. There is a block of players of which the majority is probtown. At this point in the game there are bigger scum to fry than those with possible sleeper prs.
Your insistence on lynching you over the others has also been noted.

Exi: I understand the insistence on lynching LL but keeping in mind the rush to lynch the claimed PGO. Stupid play trying to investigate said PGO too.

[DTMaster]

@Moth
Since when are neighbours all town exclusive Mothrax? With a mason and a larger neighbour group, odds are there is scum in the neighbour group. It's implausable to have a high town ratio across the two groups (however not impossible since it's been known that neighbourhoods are a good source of meta breakage)

I know that I argued that both neighbour-scum are just as likely to attack other neighbours, and that bad neighbour Chrono/Substrike might not suspect their neighbours due to just bad play. But I'm only refering it in the specific case of Chronopie/Substrike:

a. Since a Chronopie claimed his role in a pro-town fashion therefore this reason outweighs Nikanor's theory. Chronopie has a meta of non-idealized mafia play, therefore we need to take into account this.
b. Substrike voting on Cupcake is a stronger indication of scuminess rather then the neighbourhood case.
c. I outlined that attacks on neighbors can be due to to PR status over bloc.
d. I also outlined that it's more efficient to focus in on scummy players when scum hunting. Generally neighborhood hunting on it's own (as in if you are the sage and you suspect a scum sage player, this would naturally show already) is not indicative of alignment. I don't think it's an absolute requirement but it should always be something to think about.

But that doesn't mean the theory is full of shite.

a. The bias is true from a scum POV.

b. Site meta has it against neighbors. Oddly enough if there are scum neighbours they rather have the confusion of the full group. As more town neighbours die, it becomes exponentially harder on the surviving neighbours to stay alive just simply due to the argument: It's in the role. Invitational 7 is a good case where

it was believe that a scum neighbor was a requirement

and both town neighbors were lynched. Battle Mage Mafia in my wiki had scum-neighbours. Legacy of Ancients too.

On the other side, site meta is useful in that scum neighbour flips bring more credit to the neighbours left. (As an aside: I would totally make an all scum neighbour group (appears in their role) have in their role scum neighbours, and have some of them be antimillers in a super bastard game to screw with everyone)

c. Also scum-neighbours might have a sleeper role as a fake claim. So lololololololz. They might have an actual, you know normal role. So any form of scum hunting is good.

d. Finally I don't like the way you talked about scum with the sleeper PRs. It feels like you're hunting PR threats, not scum. The sentence where you talk about "bigger scum to fry" feels odd. "What's these bigger scum"?

e. Exilion investigated

before the PGO claim was complete

and we already explained that there is a shift. Had you not read the last 3 pages or something? We would know if LL is a PGO if he was dead (durh). But he didn't hence why I wanted to clear the shift up. It's likely Exlion is sane (or paranoid/random but I'm going to assume sane for now just because his investigate matches Kai and shift) and we can go from there.

[Nikanor]

Nik: your point on sages being scum if they have not attacked another sage is pure shite. There is a block of players of which the majority is probtown. At this point in the game there are bigger scum to fry than those with possible sleeper prs.
Your insistence on lynching you over the others has also been noted.

Somebody's a scum neighbor.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

The other possible explination is that Exilon fake claimed Zelda, and never actually investigated me. Hence, he never visited me, and that is why he is still alive.

Just throwing that out there, in the event that there is no shift discovered.

[mothrax]

Never said all the neighbors were town. It would behoov you to learn about word modifiers, particularly "majority" and "prob."
What I am saying is that the insistence that in order to be town, a neighbor has to have attacked another neighbor is wrong.
As for bigger scum to fry, I meant that there seems to be a focus on solely the neighbors when there is a high probability that there is other scum out there and in a vanillaless game the probability that they are more powerful than the neighbors is also high.

[zwetschenwasser]

I don't like this speculation. At all.

[Nikanor]

Lambda, read Exilon in iso. He started acting as if he had a guilty on you from before you claimed PGO. I doubt he's lying.

[Chronopie]

b. Site meta has it against neighbors. Oddly enough if there are scum neighbours they rather have the confusion of the full group. As more town neighbours die, it becomes exponentially harder on the surviving neighbours to stay alive just simply due to the argument: It's in the role. Invitational 7 is a good case where

it was believed that a scum neighbor was a requirement

and both town neighbors were lynched. Battle Mage Mafia in my wiki had scum-neighbours. Legacy of Ancients too.

I'd just like to mention Reck's Philly mafia (again), where both Neighbours were town.

But with confirmed alignment masons in this game too, the odds are very, very low.

and if there is a scum sage/neighbour, it's a

certainty

that they were given a fake pm. Else we'd just out the entire group and see who couldn't produce.

[Nikanor]

If that's the case, Chrono, then why are you opposed to revealing who in the neighbor group you find scummy?

[Nikanor]

Actually, let's do it this way: Everyone in the neighbor group, claim in your neighbor QT the names of the people who you think are scum, only out of the people in your neighborhood.
If one of the neighbors fails to produce or gives crappy reasoning or has only shown suspicions of that person now that I'm asking about it, I would appreciate a town neighbor coming forward with that information.
Now there's no reason to not carry through with this plan, since it doesn't reveal anything to the scums who already know everything anyway. Chronopie, you're in charge of making sure this gets done and telling me when it is done and the results.

[Hinduragi]

Following the -13 shift hypothesis...

Unvote

just in case

ROLLING ATTACK: jmj3000's (nonexistent) wagon

I hope to hit LLD's wagon, thereby stripping BE of his doublevote.

What if the shift has changed? Now we can't be sure of where the shift actually is unless someone loses their vote.

[DTMaster]

If the shift changed then that's how we know. The point of this is to determine

what the shift is so Exlion can get a sane investigation

. Druhhh.

[Beefster]

MOD: Votecount please.