Stars Aligned III - The Tenth Day

[Plum]

...

You disregard the fact that you directly asked for a pair of Rezzes to counteract not only Benmage (hypothetically) but also a Cult kill, which you invoked specifically. Whether or not you now claim to know better, I dislike the attempt to commandeer Town resources like that (and anyway if Benmage is killing you, why would Cult go after you? And why you specifically, anyway? The hell you're the most likely guy on Cult's offing list).

Benmage can be controlled tonight with graverobbing; if he doesn't, we will lynch him, and I'm sure you'll be happy. In the meantime you haven't responded to other things I've noted from you which make no sense.

[Wraith]

I'm afraid I won't be happy. Because I'll probably be DEAD.

[Wraith]

On your other two points:

1. I admit, in hindsight, that the "Benmage is trying to get me lynched even though he stalked me" is a pretty silly conclusion. But I have a question for you: As I asked the town as a whole before, why would he assume I'm lying about insanties if he didn't stalk me last night?

2. Well, I can't prove it to you, because I can't quote my PM. But I did receive a fetish last night.

[VP Baltar]

Damn scummy. Thanks for asking. But basically this is colored most by the fact that of the whole RC/Fate/Benmage mess with the shifting wagins Wraith looked the MOST opportunistic and the LEAST interested in scumhunting for real. And why do you ask, VP, and what's your take on Wraith?

First let me say, I approve of your answers and I'm now less suspicious of you over this. The reason I asked was because part of your Seacore hate seemed to revolve around him wanting to lynch potential murderer Benmage instead of cult. Wraith essentially proposed this same plan yesterday and I felt you were giving him a bit of a free pass when you were handing out the dunce caps and telling him to pipe down instead of calling him scummy. I personally think Wraith is scummy for his continued push on Benmage, and as I said earlier I'm not too surprised at his claim of receiving a fetish.

That's fine, but I'd like to hear the questions, mkay?

You're in my good graces now. I no longer think you should grave rob tonight.

[Seacore]

VP, if I read you correctly, you're suspicious of Wraith's fetish claim. Are you suspicious of mine?

I'm interested to see how many people claim they have received a fetish.

[Wraith]

I DID receive a fetish. I searched for and found a Rez Kit last night. I already know who I'm using it on.

[Furcolow]

I've decided I'm not graverobbing
I have no insanities, I'd like to keep it that way
I will probably be ritualed anyways

If someone wants to commune me, or admit they communed me, by all means...

I hope you're using it on me, wraith

[MagnaofIllusion]

Posts that were unaddressed before Night fell

–

So you don't think Furpants is reasonable? As someone who has engaged in a extended dialog with him in my last few posts, I think you are very wrong.

Actually in my exchanges with Furpants I found he used jokes to avoid answering questions, was generally dismissive and reactionary. None of this is necessarily a scum-tell but told me not to bother engaging him for the moment. Once again your opinion differs from mine.

The one liner was made by Zach.

The follow up questioning you was done by me, I forgot to sign the post. It was me who said the wagon was opportunistic and I do stand by that considering the inital reasoning and how fast it grew when other wagons just didn't go anywhere.

The general point I was making was two-fold. First that Zach’s response served only to be sarcastic. You rather closely followed on the heels with a general Sotty style comment. Since you are playing a Hydra and not making a significant effort to distinguish your posts the juxtaposition looks odd.

But scum post less....GIEFF in mafia 98 ran the numbers on all the players in the game somehow and all but i think alexhans posted drastically less as scum than as town. This was illustrated not with total posts counts at the end of the game, but how often they posted a day when town compared to when scum. Go look for yourself the numbers are drastically lower and I bet if you just made a poll in mafia discussion asking people if they personally post less when scum than when town 90% will agree.

So you are asserting that statistics drawn from one game correlate to clear site-wide proof? Bullshit. If you can show me a thread where statistically a significant sampling of games is statistically analyzed and corrected for days alive, number of players in the game, and the statistical impact each other player in the game has and the results correlate to proof that greater than 65% or so of players post less as scum and I’ll buy it. Otherwise you are simply trying to pass of your opinion related to Mafia theoretical discussion as a scum-tell.

Yes and no. You'll be apt to find scum all along the continuum in that case. And hey, lemme ask, you call Furc's behavior scummy and then say that Cult know he's Investigator. So which is he, or what?

In regards to scum being everywhere along the continuum I agree in general. I choose to look at the players clearing in the face of his play (which I see as consistent regardless of alignment in personal experience) as opposed to those questioning and pressuring him. I’m not sure why then not peep one had been made regarding all the accusations that Cult-scum must be in the Furcolow early wagon.

Furc’s behavior was scumtastic. No disputing it. That said the scumminess is most likely from his VI nature given the Mod confirmation he stumbled blindly into. So he’s acted scummy (bad cases, flailing and calling everyone who looks funny at him scum, etc) but is most likely just a bad Investigator.

Why go out of the way to assert this is some sort of contradiction?

Here's a question for you: why didn't you stalk him last Night, in that case, eh? In any case, you're wrong and I still find that initial play scummy. Thanks for reminding me.

Because blindly stalking Night 0 would be stupidly anti-Town. You know this so why bother asking the question? I'm not stupid. The one free shot at a kill each Investigator gets should be not be wasted frivolously based on prior experiences. It should be saved to nail Cult. I reserve the right to interact with players as I feel appropriate to the player. Feel free to find my personal opinion about Furcolow scummy. In any case you are wrong about that.

In which case Furc just threw away his team's ability to off El Goosuki or throw their slot an extra Insanity because they CANNOT use that Fetish without proving that Furc was lying Cult (because you can't craft a Fetish of someone you have a Fetish of, so any Fetish sent or used to Ritual El Goos would have to originate with Furc-Cult per this theory). BRILLIANT explanation there.

Nice thinking. Except for the fact, of course, that on ANY SUCCESSIVE NIGHT that El Goo hears a noise and is not warded a Fetish could be created. So once El Goo hears Noise and is not warded (or multiple wards claims are made) your theory goes Kablooie. So the Cult would have to be, I don’t know, patient enough to wait a few days and then could throw doubt on multiple Ward claims or exploit an unwarded noise. Or perhaps El Goo could be Cult. Glad you didn’t factor that into your BRILLIANT explanation. Any reason why that possibility slipped your mind?

And then on to new business –

Dispatch RC

Dispatch Fate

Eventual flips are absolutely required for any sort of long term relational analysis. Plus if Cult want to burn sanities Warding graves and thus making themselves more susceptible to Occult Books that would be wonderful.

Does anyone else find it odd that El Goo, whose input into the game has been less than stellar, has been warded on successive nights?

@xvart

– You chose to ward El Goo over any number of more Pro-Town players (Hito for one) just to test a theory that we put to be 30 or so pages ago thanks to Furc's mod clearance?

I think Magna's question to Benmage is pretty ridiculous. Why kill a modkilled player?

Despite Benmage’s attempted backtrack today the drum he hammered yesterday was ‘Killing Fate will CONFIRM me as Town’. And Fate’s Soul Rip left him alive but unable to actively help Town. So going through with the Murder of a still alive but useless Fate accomplishes the mission he kept screaming about Day 1. So no, the question is not stupid.

Magna that is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. One of our strongest tools as town is we all have viging powers. I stalked someone I believe to be scum. Why would I waste my one shot on someone dead...that is horrible logic.

Me being confirmed town is secondary incentive. Primary being killing cult.

[b/]

I’m calling complete bullshit on the bolded. This is absolutely NOT what you spent all Day 1 saying.

1. If you believed the bolded you would NOT have stalked Fate N1 as you had ZERO reason to suspect he was Cult. You didn’t know, unless you are Cult, his alignment N0 and couldn’t have known you would not hear noise until Day 1 started. So your N0 actions directly contradict your statement.
2. After you gave up your charade of attempting to call Fate confirmed cult early D1 you wrapped yourself in the blanket of “I’ll kill him and be confirmed Town” til the very end of D1. So this once again contradicts your bolded statement.

If you were worried about outing your target to the Cult you’ve failed as Cult absolutely know which members heard noise. So saying you aren’t hiding anything after you were more than happy to claim Stalking of Fate D1 is ludicrous.

On my reread of MoI yesterday I was finding his dismissal of the VV case to be excessively confrontational. When VV made his case I do agree that MoI is the type of player that you basically have to hunt by feel because he just snows you with words. Arrogantly dismissing that as nothing seems to be intentionally ignoring his own meta, which I'm sure he's well aware of.

My dismissal of VV was absolutely confrontational. I make no bones about it. He swam in the rhetoric pool and got what was coming to him. If you are trying to make some Meta argument that Town Magna can’t be abrasive you better read my interactions with Furc and Kast ‘Captain Theoretical’ in Brave and the Beautiful. Just because I normally don’t act so cavalier doesn’t mean I’m not willing to do so when the situation demands it.

I’m not going to jump on the Benmage must be lynched wagon. Depsite his anti-Town play he can be directed or dealt with at a later date.

Once all Noise claims are in today I’ll be reviewing and placing my vote.

[VP Baltar]

VP, if I read you correctly, you're suspicious of Wraith's fetish claim. Are you suspicious of mine?

I'm interested to see how many people claim they have received a fetish.

I dislike Wraith much more than I dislike you...though I've had my meh moments in reading you yesterday. I'm sure some people honestly could have been passed fetishes last night, but of course I'm going to be skeptical of anyone who claims it. What better scum claim is there for an insanity? I'm also interested to see how many more people claim to receive fetishes last night.

[Andrius]

*twitch*
GUYS, THERE IS THIS DOLL OF ME. AND THERE IS A A NAIL IN ITS HEAD. IT IS SAD AND DEAD-LOOKING. WTF GUYS. T_T
WHY DOES NO ONE LIKE ME?!?!? T_T

CD2

Username:

Andrius

Did you Hear Noise?

Yes

Did you Ward? If so, who?

Yes, Benmage

Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions?

I got a Fetish of myself, picked Twitchy

List all of the insanities you currently have:

Twitchy

Did you

successfully

resuscitate? If so, who?

No

Were you murdered?

I don't think so...

Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result? (Note that these are both poor N1 choices.)

No

Twitch?

*Twitch*

So yeah. I got Passed a Fetish. *twitch*
Not too happy with that. *twitch*
And I Warded Benmage because he is one of my stronger town reads*, and figured that the scum might try to kill a townie* and a known Stalker/potential Murderer.
*twitch*

Will catch up on D2 stuff later. If we could limit ourselves to like, 3 pages a day that'd be just spectacular. <3

[Seacore]

During Day 1, El Goosuki posted this.

El Goosuki sends all his/her love to hitogoroshi for his guide to Investigators and baby Cthulhu picnic picture.

During N1, El Goosuki claims to have ignored this much loved guide and wasted a night action.

Vote: El Goosuki

[Seacore]

EBWOP:

Dispatch: RC
Dispatch: Fate

I'm happy with the plans invovled. Assuming we can deal with Furc bouncing between doing the job and not wanting insanities. I'm happy to grave rob if people wish, but I understand any reluctance to do so.

[Wraith]

Hey town. You guys have been talking about controlling Benmage for two days. How about we actually do something about it?

Here's my proposal: Benmage claims his target, or dies. If he claims it and it is in fact not me, I'll leave well enough alone and go for an El Goosuki lynch.

[Plum]

And if it is you?

[xvart]

D2 Noises/Ward List 2.00

Noises/Ward List:

Andrius

-

Heard Noises

(1884),

Warded Benmage

(1884)

AurorusVox

-

Heard Noises

(1714), Did Not Ward (1714)

Baby Spice

-

Heard Noises

(1811), Did Not Ward (1811)

Benmage

(warded by Andrius)

-

Heard Noises

(1727),

Stalked Unknown

(1727)

Nicodemus

Bowser

- No Noises (1725), Did Not Ward (1725)

El Goosuki

(Warded by xvart)

-

Heard Noises

(1760),

Investigated xvart

(1760)

Fate

- Modkilled D1

Feysal

-

Heard Noises

(1775), Did Not Ward (1775)

Furcolow

-

Heard Noises

(1798),

Searched for Rez Kit

(1798)

Furpants_Tom

-

Heard Noises

(1818), Did Not Ward (1818)

hitorogoshi

-

Heard Noises

(1719),

Warded Trilobite

(1719)

kunkstar7

-

Heard Noises

(1729), Did Not Ward (1729)

Lost Butterfly

- Killed N1

MagnaofIllusion

-

Heard Noises

(1757), Did Not Ward (1757)

Plum

-

Heard Noises

(1872), Did Not Ward (1872)

ReaperCharlie

- Modkilled D1

Wraith

rewq455

-

Heard Noises

(1747), Did Not Ward (1747)

Seacore

-

Heard Noises

(1814),

Warded Triglav

(1814)

SpyreX

-

Heard Noises

(1774), Did Not Ward (1774)

nopointinactingup

Super Smash Bros. Fan

- No Noises (1718),

Rezzed Wicked

(1718)

totallynotmafia

-

Heard Noises

(1861), Did Not Ward (1861)

Triglav

(Warded by Seacore)

-

Heard Noises

(1837), Did Not Ward (1837)

Trilobite

(Warded by hitorogoshi)

-

Heard Noises

(1709), Did Not Ward (1709)

VasudeVa

- No Noises (1708), Did Not Ward (1708)

VP Baltar

- No Noises (1710), Did Not Ward (1710)

Wickedestjr

-

Heard Noises

(1745), Did Not Ward (1745)

manho

Wingless

-

xvart

-

Heard Noises

(1735),

Warded El Goosuki

(1735)

Final Day 1 Noise/Ward List

Claimed Insanities 2.00

Andrius

[1] - Twitchy (N1, Received Fetish)

Benmage

[2] - Suicidal (N0, stalked Fate), Obsession (N1, Stalked Unknown)

Wicked

[1] - Twitchy (N1, killed and rezzed)

Wraith

[1] - Twitchy (N1, Received Fetish)

I feel like I missed a claimed insanity somewhere or a claimed action... Please correct me if I missed something or entered something incorrectly.

xvart.

[Wraith]

And if it is you?

If it is me, I'm afraid I'll want him dead anyways because I can't trust anyone to rez me. But it'll let the rest of the town rest easy that it's not them.

[Wraith]

So, a grand total of four people did not hear noises. A crapload of people are liars.

[kunkstar7]

@ xvart, Seacore claimed an Twitchy Insanity from getting passed a fetish in #1814.

[Wraith]

Wait, seriously? I didn't even notice Wicked was murdered and rezz'd. Shit, that means we have two murderers to deal with and one would-be murderer.

@kinkstar, @xvart: opinions on the Benmage claim issue. Now.

[kunkstar7]

People who have noises explained (in no particular order, just off the top of my head/correlated with xvart's chart):

xvart (Investigated by El Goosuki)
El Goosuki (Warded by xvart)
kunkstar7 (Targeted by furpants_tom)
benmage (Warded by Andrius)
Andrius (passed fetish)
Wraith (passed fetish)
Seacore (passed fetish)
Triglav (warded by Seacore)
Trilobite (warded by Hito)

20 players heard noise.
9 players have explainable noises.
1 player has not yet claimed.

@Wraith, I believe this sums my benmage thoughts up:

The hell benmage, more insanities??? This is unacceptable. Claim your target NOW.

Personally I support the benmage double graverob. He is more than likely an investigator, and obviously likes taking unnecessary insanities so it'll prevent cult from the corpse dust.

From VP's list I would substitute out Wraith and place benmage in his slots.

If he agrees with that AND claims his target we can leave him alive for now. @BENMAGE if you have nothing to hide you have no reason to hide your target.

[Seacore]

Wait, seriously? I didn't even notice Wicked was murdered and rezz'd. Shit, that means we have two murderers to deal with and one would-be murderer.

@kinkstar, @xvart: opinions on the Benmage claim issue. Now.

Or he was ritualled and rezz'd

[xvart]

xvart, when i said "i don't need the res kit" here, why do you think I don't need it anymore?
Also, in my original claim post, I stated "I wanted RC's res kit, but Vi didn't let me rob/ward, so ..."

I assumed you Searched instead of Warding (and I didn't even make the connection about the rez kit), but the way it was written is that you decided to Search when denied the rob grave action. I just wanted it clearly stated.

I've decided I'm not graverobbing
I have no insanities, I'd like to keep it that way
I will probably be ritualed anyways

If someone wants to commune me, or admit they communed me, by all means...

I hope you're using it on me, wraith

If you think you are going to get killed by the Cult, then wouldn't it be good for you to be the grave robber? We get some insanities on someone who isn't going to be around?

@xvart

– You chose to ward El Goo over any number of more Pro-Town players (Hito for one) just to test a theory that we put to be 30 or so pages ago thanks to Furc's mod clearance?

Yes. It's something I would not be able to get over if I had not done it; and now that I have, I can move on. Additionally, my original plan was to change my action once I received some sort of confirmation back. If I didn't receive any confirmation back, then I knew Furculow's story was bogus and could run with that. However, after I got confirmation back I thought about it and felt like what I was doing could be considered gaming the system, and decided that I needed to follow through with it.

@ xvart, Seacore claimed an Twitchy Insanity from getting passed a fetish in #1814.

Thanks. I'll put it in once I get manho's claims.

Wait, seriously? I didn't even notice Wicked was murdered and rezz'd. Shit, that means we have two murderers to deal with and one would-be murderer.

@kinkstar, @xvart: opinions on the Benmage claim issue. Now.

I'm considering asking for a group of possibilities for his stalk target. I think it could actually be helpful because if he names some actual Cult in the group then the Cult will have to waste some Rez Kits if they think that might actually be the target. Then, we'll also have the information tomorrow about who Rezzed who on Benmage's target and we can move on from there. Right now I don't think it is a good idea to ask for a specific target for the same reason you don't ask a vig for a specific kill target in any other game. Even if he is going Murderer he can't really get away with killing someone unless they are scummy so even if he is planning on going Murderer his target should align (hopefully) to the town's objective.

xvart.

[xvart]

I'm considering asking for a group of possibilities for his stalk target.

I think it could actually be helpful because if he names some actual Cult in the group then the Cult will have to waste some Rez Kits if they think that might actually be the target

. Then, we'll also have the information tomorrow about who Rezzed who on Benmage's target and we can move on from there. Right now I don't think it is a good idea to ask for a specific target for the same reason you don't ask a vig for a specific kill target in any other game. Even if he is going Murderer he can't really get away with killing someone unless they are scummy so even if he is planning on going Murderer his target should align (hopefully) to the town's objective.

Nevermind that point; rez kits don't get wasted if they are unsuccessful... I'll think about a possible target group a little more, but I don't think he should claim his target.

xvart.

[Seacore]

xvart, the cultists would still have to waste some actions, which is a victory of sorts (albeit a minor one)

I think Benmage should offer 4 names. His target + 3 others.

[Seacore]

OMG, it's my scum day! Holy arsecrack this year has gone fast.