The Return to Liten (Game Over)

[ThAdmiral]

@ThAd: Why are you not willing to shoot Thor or NC?

I was sort of swayed by the way nero is happy to stick his neck out and support his own cases even when he is copping a lot of heat for them. Furthermore, as thor mentioned, the fact that he hasn't changed his attention-grabbing style.
Thor I believe is town as well as he has generally made sense, has seemed to be genuinely scum hunting, and also hasn't been afraid to voice opinions to the contrary of most of the other players.

[SaintKerrigan]

Wreckage of Dropship

Apollyon

Colonized Sector 2, UTP Planet Liten, Tynnfred System
December 4th, 2486 SC (Day 4, Month 15 LC)
1956 hours SST (1249 hours LLT2)

Jezzy and Black Cat tromped silently across their assigned path. Neither of them had spoken a word to each other in hours beyond, "Time to check in, back soon." Around them, the air was eerily silent, with nary a sound from the Liten wildlife, and no breeze to rustle the boing grass. Suddenly, a large, black bird, resembling a cross between a toucan and an albatross, soared across the sky. It uttered a call not unlike that of a crow in the midst of being strangled.

"God fuck you!" Jezzy muttered virulently. She aimed her laser rifle at the annoying bird, but Black Cat quickly reached out and put her hand on the top of Jezzy's weapon.

"Don't give away your position!" she hissed. "Even Sherry knows that."

"You and your fucking talking weapons," Jezzy growled, refusing to yield to Black Cat.

Black Cat furrowed her brow. "Are you insulting my friends?" she intoned, her voice icy and calm. "Maybe I should let Judith carve you up a bit, teach you some manners. Would you like that?"

"Jesus, Black Cat," Jezzy complained, but she quickly lowered her weapon.

Black Cat kept her gaze fixated on Jezzy. "What's going on, Lieutenant? You haven't been yourself lately, and it's showing."

Jezzy gave a bitter half-laugh. "What's wrong? Everything! The mission's fucked up and shot to hell, Sara doesn't have a

fucking

clue how to command yet she's getting away with it, and

now

she thinks she's capable of making sound decisions after coming back from the fucking

dead

! Worse, you all are falling in with her!" She sighed. "Guess I'm just destined to get the raw deal out of life."

Black Cat shook her head. "You know nothing about getting raw deals from life," she growled. "All you have to show for your scars is a bruised ego. You don't know how it feels to live with the screams of forty-nine voices in your head for the rest of your life. You don't know what it's like to find love...and have it ripped away from you in the worst imaginable way possible." She looked away from Jezzy, hiding the single tear that had materialized in the inner corner of her right eye. "Dean..." she whispered quietly.

At this point, both women chose to keep moving on their patrol. With the obnoxious avian far off in the distance, silence reigned once again...

Vote Count 3.3

(4) Twomz: MagnaofIllusion, LynchMePls, Thor665, AlmasterGM
(3) apathyplusCUPCAKES: ThAdmiral, Furry, Slaxx
(2) Nero Cain: apathyplusCUPCAKES, HackerHuck
(1) Cogito Ergo Sum: Nero Cain
(1) Furry: Cogito Ergo Sum
(1) HackerHuck: Twomz

Not Voting: no one

With twelve people alive, it takes seven votes to lynch.
The deadline is Wednesday, December 1st, 2010 at 11:00 a.m. CST.

[LimMePls]

@ThAd: Why are you not willing to shoot Thor or NC?

I was sort of swayed by the way nero is happy to stick his neck out and support his own cases even when he is copping a lot of heat for them. Furthermore, as thor mentioned, the fact that he hasn't changed his attention-grabbing style.
Thor I believe is town as well as he has generally made sense, has seemed to be genuinely scum hunting, and also hasn't been afraid to voice opinions to the contrary of most of the other players.

These are enough reasons to put them on your do not shoot list though? That's what I don't understand. Why do they belong on that list, but not Furry?

[MagnaofIllusion]

My personal well wishes to you SaintK. May your recovery be speedy! I hope everyone who celebrated Thanksgiving yesterday had a wonderful day.

I note with some interest that CES has gone into hibernation since the focus has shifted off him. This may be a function of the Holiday but is mentioning, IMO.

@Twomz

– I’ve been meaning to follow up with you on this – since you went out of your way to make comment about you not providing flavor I think you need to do so ASAP.

Twomz’s vote at 772 does nothing to reduce my thoughts that he is scum. Furry swoops in and makes a very bried case on HackerHuck and a few posts later Twomz is happily second on the wagoning with shaky reasoning.

And are y'all really gonna try to base a wagon on me on the fact that I have used random.org to determine nightactions in games before and don't care if I tell people that? I've used it as scum and as town (not as 3rd party though, I don't think I've ever been 3rd party /shrug) and even if you say it's bad play style, how is that relevant if I'm a VT?

The fact that you seem to be trying to say that a single comment, made well after your wagon started, is the reason you are getting votes I find absurd. I’ve detailed all the reasons you under fire. You’ve disagreed with them, of course, but to downplay your wagon as baseless at this stage may well qualify as Certified Flailing TM.

If you are seriously advocating that Random.org is the actual method you have used in the past to decide Night actions I suggest you quit playing Mafia. Because placing a decision about who to Vig / Kill / Investigate / Whatever into a Random Number Generator as opposed to using actual information from the game makes you no better than a Mafia playing Turing program. That is a disservice to the other members of whatever faction you are a part of in every game you play.

Mafia doctor suggests that Thad is a vig actually. Im upset I missed this earlier.

Can you elaborate on this because I’m not seeing it. Mafia Doctor tells me that a non-Mafia faction has a Nightkill ability. Whether that Mafia Doc ability would logically be used to protect their scummiest members (in the case of a Vig) or their Towniest members (in the case of a SK) seems at best Mod WIFOM.

I don't like how Furry keeps making new wagons. They're not bad cases, but I'm not seeing anything from APC that's SOOO scumtastic that I need to vote for him RIGHT NAO. Twomz is still good.

While I agree with your stance on voting for Twomz go back in my ISO to look at the case I made today for APC. They would be my second choice if Twomz was not on the table.

2. Opposite is true - if he's scum he can't claim PR because CC means CERTAIN death (this round or next). VT is the better claim. Also, how is this even defense, "oh he claimed VT he must be town." wut? SINCE WHEN.

I don’t want this tidbit to be lost in the shuffle. Let’s look at who has flipped as Town –

Nik and Dana – Medic (possible Doc variant)
Spyrex – Scout (information role of some sort I would guess based on Day 2 Feysal wagon)
Untrod – SOB Operative (????)

With Admiral having claimed Vig the range of potential PRs floating around seems to be rather limited. Claiming a VT is a much more believable course of action for scum at this stage.

That said – if we do eventually end up with more PR indicative flips it strengthens the notion that Admiral may be a Serial Killer as opposed to a Vig.

Also the fact that he has gotten this far into the game without a counterwagon started on him when scum have been lynched two days is odd.

This strikes me as the flipside to the “Why is Glork (or insert any well known and respected player) still alive if they aren’t scum” fallacy I see float by ever so often. Scummy.

[Furry]

Mafia doctor suggests that Thad is a vig actually. Im upset I missed this earlier.

Can you elaborate on this because I’m not seeing it. Mafia Doctor tells me that a non-Mafia faction has a Nightkill ability. Whether that Mafia Doc ability would logically be used to protect their scummiest members (in the case of a Vig) or their Towniest members (in the case of a SK) seems at best Mod WIFOM.

Mafia doctor and a SK is borderline bastard modding since it goes against what the standard ideal play of a mafia doctor is. It is mod WIFOM, but its probably true.

[ThAdmiral]

These are enough reasons to put them on your do not shoot list though? That's what I don't understand. Why do they belong on that list, but not Furry?

I think so. Yeah furry is more or less on my town list as well.

[LimMePls]

Then why isn't Furry actually on the do not shoot list. Why are NC and Thor more deserving of making it onto that list?

[ThAdmiral]

consider him on the do not shoot list if you want.

[Twomz]

Without looking at PM, I remember it had something to do with being called by God to go fight.

Looking at PM, my name is Wesley Hudson, I'm a SOB Combat Operative and I had a vision where God personally told me to go kick spawn of Satan (Arkon) ass. I was really surprised after the flavor text that I was a VT... but I'm sure that's on purpose.

Any other flavor questions for me?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I'm just going to drop the whole VC analysis discussion since I don't think it'll get us anywhere. I can continue it if people insist, but this shouldn't be a controversial position.

Can you argue against either of these assertions that I made in the VC of Day 1 regarding you is incorrect?

1. That you were on Danakillsu’s wagon to the very end of that wagon.
2. That you were on the Untrod Tripod wagon up until the point where SquareOb became the leading wagon at the end of the Day.
3. That your reasoning for being on the SquareOb wagon was at best weak.

Regardless of you ‘playstyle’ you appear on wagons Day 1 in three different places I consider indicative of possible scum play.

1. Technically true, but meaningless. Daniel voted dana with his last post. I unvoted with my first. There's no way my slot could've unvoted earlier.
2. I haven't gone back, but this one is probably true.
3. Hells no. Weak flavour inconsistent with SK's narrative given only after extensive stalling by a hydra = slamdunk case.

Hindsight is 20/20 isn’t it? Funny you didn’t mention Feysal Day 1 when the question about good Night targets was raised. Yet Day 2 after Spyrex starts the wagon that is 3 votes deep suddenly you ISOed him and decided he was a good target.

That post wasn't wholly serious, just fyi, because, as you say, hindsight is 20/20. But Feysal did only make his scummiest post late Day 1 and frankly, the case against him is just unconvincing without it. It's also not unreasonable to expect ThAd to put more effort into picking a good target than the rest of us. He

could've

noticed Feysal's last post, ISOed him and killed him.

I note with some interest that CES has gone into hibernation since the focus has shifted off him. This may be a function of the Holiday but is mentioning, IMO.

More an issue of erratic sleep patterns combined with being distracted by scumchat. I spent my prime 'scumming hours sleeping the last few days.

Furry, could you respond to my earlier post?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

P.S. People who think Furry is town are probably underestimating Furry.

[HackerHuck]

Personally I think Furry brought you into the conversation, not me. He mentioned us as the pairing and *then* I started discussing it - how exactly did I bring it up in your mind?

Furry did, my intent wasn't to make it sound like you brought up the subject. It's just a little offputting when someone I suspect keeps putting their name next to mine in post after post. Now that I've gone back through your posts in iso, your comments make much more sense with your stance on Nero. I'd definitely like to see where Furry was trying to go with that.

HH's reaction to the wagon is fencesitty, and I'm not sure how scummy right now (time will tell).
...

vote: HackerHuck

, I think the best bet at snagging scum today is to go after one of the people sitting on a wagon that had support (even if not from votes). NC had a lot of flak earlier today, although many people seem to be saying he's likely a VI. I think that could make scum want to sit on the beginning of the wagon so that if it picks back up closer to deadline they'll be in a position to say that they were on it the whole time to try to defuse blame on a mislynch.
...
I don't mind if y'all call me overdefensive or a fensesitter or w/e. Those could appear true to some people, and why should I judge how others perceive my posts? I'm willing to debate the scumminess of those actions and I'm also willing to accept if you decide I'm scum based on them. Lynching, or even wagoning me because of the random.org comment is just as stupid as lynching me cause I happen to live an hour away from Mith (unless he's moved from Tyler or I'm thinking of someone else).

Not sure how I'm considered fence-sitty on your wagon (or how that's scummy given what you said in that same post). Someone mentioned that I needed to either push for Nero or to pick a side on the CES/Twomz wagons. I still think that Nero is our best option for today - and it seems you feel he's a good option as well, since you think he's a good target for ThAd. I think I said that if I had to pick one of those two wagons, I would pick you over CES because I have more of a town read on CES. I'd prefer to look elsewhere if I had to pick an alternate wagon. Thor's looking a little better now that I've read him in iso, but I'd not be opposed to his lynch and I've also had my eye on MoI for while now.

[LimMePls]

consider him on the do not shoot list if you want.

Is anyone else unnerved by Thad's lists and his casual responses to my questions?

[Furry]

Furry, could you respond to my earlier post?

First time I said it as a statement in a little case and it never was responded to. I wanted to make sure that was right so I brought it up again, apparently yes it was.

Deadline is Wednesday, lets go people.

Twomz is probably town here. APC needs the lynch.

[Slaxx]

This strikes me as the flipside to the “Why is Glork (or insert any well known and respected player) still alive if they aren’t scum” fallacy I see float by ever so often. Scummy.

Wut. I was saying he has been extremely passive and quite and I feel like scum would have hopped all over his wagon. Its STILL hard to get going and a lot of people have posted.

[Thor665]

Deadline is Wednesday, lets go people.

Good posting.

I'm pretty happy with either an apathy or Twomz lynch. Nero, CES, and Twomz definitely need to get off the dead wagons they are squatting upon.

[Twomz]

I agree that Apathy has been useless, but I don't see the scum reads others are finding. I would be willing to throw down a vote on Apathy to cull a useless player if the deadline approaches to narrow the field (I will not vote for myself, but I will vote for the next largest wagon), I'd rather not waste the lynch but I don't have a better alternative.

I can't think of a relevant reason to postpone the end of the day... does anyone have any questions for me or apathy?

@ MoI: It's not that I think that's the only reason, I've talked about the others as well, it's that you've been most vocal about it. We could sit here all day and yell back and forth "random is ok!" "no it's not!" and it still won't have anything to do with the game.

[Thor665]

Did you just say in a really fancy way that you have no reads but would vote for whatever wagon became the best counter wagon to you (just, not until closer to deadline?

I hate you.

Do you have any sort of vague plans to get reads or opinions on anyone?

[LimMePls]

I agree that Apathy has been useless, but I don't see the scum reads others are finding. I would be willing to throw down a vote on Apathy to cull a useless player if the deadline approaches to narrow the field (I will not vote for myself, but I will vote for the next largest wagon), I'd rather not waste the lynch but I don't have a better alternative.

I can't think of a relevant reason to postpone the end of the day... does anyone have any questions for me or apathy?

@ MoI: It's not that I think that's the only reason, I've talked about the others as well, it's that you've been most vocal about it. We could sit here all day and yell back and forth "random is ok!" "no it's not!" and it still won't have anything to do with the game.

Twomz wagon is a go.

[Slaxx]

We do have a vig ijs.

[Furry]

I agree that Apathy has been useless, but I don't see the scum reads others are finding. I would be willing to throw down a vote on Apathy to cull a useless player if the deadline approaches to narrow the field (I will not vote for myself, but I will vote for the next largest wagon), I'd rather not waste the lynch but I don't have a better alternative.

I can't think of a relevant reason to postpone the end of the day... does anyone have any questions for me or apathy?

@ MoI: It's not that I think that's the only reason, I've talked about the others as well, it's that you've been most vocal about it. We could sit here all day and yell back and forth "random is ok!" "no it's not!" and it still won't have anything to do with the game.

Twomz wagon is a go.

Nah. Twomz is what he claims to be. Pretty sure of that.

APC needs to die, check out his nice and conveinent lurking. I think he even needs prodding at this point.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Furry, could you respond to my earlier post?

First time I said it as a statement in a little case and it never was responded to. I wanted to make sure that was right so I brought it up again, apparently yes it was.

So what made you post the accusations in #703 (most notably the 2nd and 3rd quote)?

And when you acknowledged my rebuttal of this point (ie. that the flavour was exactly the important point, not some softball) you gave no indication that you were switching back to an old opinion.

[Furry]

So what made you post the accusations in #703 (most notably the 2nd and 3rd quote)?

In those quotes you appear to stall a vote multiple times based on flavor. I went around the bush a few times before flat out getting confirmation that it was all based on flavor. Speaking of flavor, what is you thoughts on Twomz claim?

[Slaxx]

There is one religiously driven warrior in every crowd.

[Furry]

Hail the all powerful Atheismo?