Zachtown in the mountains (Game over TOWN WINS!)

[Thor665]

Also posting lots is better than posting nothing!

Yeah, but posting lots doesn't equate to a town tell either just as posting nothing isn't an assured scumtell.

[I Am Innocent]

Mina, any reason you do not have a vote out there?

[Benmage]

Also posting lots is better than posting nothing!

Yeah, but posting lots doesn't equate to a town tell either just as posting nothing isn't an assured scumtell.

If you don't have a grasp on this game and the players in the first 50 pages, you won't in the next 50 pages.

Mina may say all her posting is her still PTW, but I say its more of a detriment to the town. So the argument that shes trying PTW doesn't hold weight. Her attempting to say I'm glossing over is a fallacy. I read every word. If I skim it my first read for lack of time, I always go back and reread it. Always. The only thing I do skim is quotes...because it was originally already read.

[Benmage]

Her saying everyone in this game has done atleast 1 protown thing, is:

A) the worst thing I've ever read
&
B) the most frustrating thing I've ever read

Mina, you're better than this. I'm sorry you got the wrong role PM this game. And I'm sorry your partners we're god awful. But thats still no excuse. You should've bussed em to high hell...Lesson learned. (And buddy benmage....It’s a flawless scum strategy, ask SpyreX)

Back to A&B: Most players, and I'm willing to say every player still alive in this game has the capacity to play protown(to a degree (thus having atleast 1 protown thing)). Simplest play as scum is to play as you play as town. It’s hard to distinguish between a bus and scum-hunting.

Saying everyone's done something protown is fucking ridiculous.

What is a scumtell anyways? Anything can be argued in any which way and thats that.

I'm putting pressure on Thor right now. I'm putting pressure on Percy. No one else is mentioning the things I'm noticing about their shift in stances on me

Who gives a fuck that you're pressuring Percy and Thor on a change in stance in regards to you. Both of them can't be scum, so you've already nullified your argument.

[Benmage]

Mina,

you've called me a good player...I'm gonna assume that you'd agree that I'm also knowledge and experienced in aspects of mafia. I'm telling you right now your extraneous posting is not beneficial to where the town is. I've been more than willing to accept my death if it steered town in the right direction or if I was too much of a distraction alive. I've seen good experienced players do the same. It's your time to bend the knee.

Granted I know its frustrating.....You shouldn't be upset out being lynched or so zealous to stay alive because a town win is a win for you alive or dead...and right now you're better of dead for the town.

I know your going to fight tooth and nail against this logic. Because you must. Because you're scum. I get it. I hope you get what I am saying though, and we can have a good laugh endgame.

Still love ya, my little Padawan.

[Mina]

Okay, I don't care anymore. Attack me for being wishy-washy, attack me for defending or ignoring flipped scum, attack me for being the most likely suspect, attack me because in line #4 of post #52, I contradicted line #17 of post #26.

But don't attack me for being desperate to stay alive.

I'm not even fighting my lynch, partly because of all the people guilting me into being "selfless" and sitting down and shutting up. I'm not even voting for the leading counterwagon despite having set myself up perfectly to do so, because I still haven't finished my ISO reads, and because at this point, my vote wouldn't do anything useful. (Yeah, Kaleidoscope and IAI have been

so much

more helpful than I have today because they voted.) I was the one who suggested we lynch all the players in the suspect pool indiscriminately in the first place. When I called Percy and Elmo (although he replaced out before I could really grill him) on being unwilling to sacrifice themselves and subtly trying to discredit the plan, no one gave a damn, but now people are using the same argument on me. I've deliberately avoided defending myself. I'm about as helpful as you can expect me to be in abetting a guaranteed mislynch, particularly considering this goes against my very philosophy of Mafia. (In my book, the best way to stop yourself from being a distraction is to be so obvtown that no one wants to lynch you, not to let yourself be lynched.)

Look, I've already resigned myself to being the lynched player, even though it's so frustrating that everyone is missing or ignoring all the signs that I'm town. All I want is to get out my last reads and analysis. You don't think it matters, because you think I'm scum. But I know that the game will last longer. It's important for me to get an answer from Percy to my questions, or to get Thor to explain himself. Put it this way: if the game doesn't end with my lynch, wouldn't you be happy to have known whether Percy would have stood his ground in a townish way, tried to distance himself from a mislynch or smear me, or done a 180? He's been posting in the SAIII thread, so he definitely has seen my most recent posts on him; he's just not answering them. He's the one arguing that we should scumhunt the good old-fashioned way, so I'd like to see some scumhunting from him.

I'm already late for the Christmas party now, so I won't write a huge response to Thor (some parts of his wallpost looked townish, and others made me want to dismember him, particularly because of the snide tone and his refusal to acknowledge that if you don't show your thought process in the thread, people who aren't mind-readers are going to assume that saying X looks town and Y looks scum means that X looks town, not that X is

only

townish-looking compared to Y, so stop throwing around the word "misrepping"), but I'll just comment:

This is really just starting to look more like scum angling of 'don't lynch me juuust yet' and I am not getting happy-day town vibes from it. Your arguement is that we shouldn't lynch you because we might win a day earlier? Big whoop.

Way to completely miss my point. You'd be the mislynch, genius. By coasting and becoming all, "Hey, guys, let's just lynch whoever, dudes," and being loose with his reads and flip-flopping on me without explanation (and I don't care if I was really your second or third suspect all along, because that didn't show through in the thread when you never really attacked me), Thor was giving the last scum more cover if he was town. What I mean is that even if you want me lynched, try to justify yourself.

The least I can do right now is try to draw as much information as possible from my lynch, by asking questions, provoking reactions, and trying to get the people voting for me to take a stand. Obviously, I know that at least one of Percy and Thor is being sincere, but why not try to figure out

which one

, if not both? I still haven't checked Baby Spice's past games to see if she likes listing scumbuddies as town reads. I'm not going to stop scumhunting until the moment the hammer is cast. And if I make my lynch more difficult, or try to pressure the lurkers, it makes the last scum's job harder. And besides, I will feel much better about myself if I can contribute something positive to this game.

I blew up at you last night because it was really frustrating that I was dying to go to sleep, but instead I was feeling pressured to get my thoughts out as quickly as possible simply to oblige all the people who want me dead ASAP, and then you had the gall to accuse me of flailing to stay alive.

Honestly, I get that from your POV, my last reads really don't matter because you're convinced I'm scum (and for the record, Benmage is so so so so so town, and please stop suspecting him, jason and possibly Sotty), and I do appreciate the kind words and sympathy (even if it's misplaced). But even if you don't believe me...just please, give me the time to write that last post. Consider it a favour. If you think I'm scum, the game will end anyway within a few days, so it's not like the wait will change anything. It's not like the game is bustling with activity, anyway.

Mina, you're better than this. I'm sorry you got the wrong role PM this game. And I'm sorry your partners we're god awful. But thats still no excuse. You should've bussed em to high hell...Lesson learned. (And buddy benmage....It’s a flawless scum strategy, ask SpyreX)

You know, I'm just curious. What do you think my takeaway from this game should be if I'm

town

? Never play Mafia again for being this bad?

[Sotty7]

Because I'm personally unconvinced by his "One of Mina or Sotty absolutely has to be scum because of Baby Spice's weird Lrdwhyt vote" argument. After I flip, it sets him up to push you as a lynch after.

Well if you do flip town Percy will have to make a case on me, one he has been talking about making all game. It will be another thing I can use to assess my read on him. I don't like what he is doing when it comes to his suspicion of me, but I can certainly understand it. My guard is up but at the same time I kinda deserve it. I'll just have to look at what he comes up with if it comes down to that.

I will say your point about Elmo replacing out being a town tell is a good one. I hadn't thought about that. Hrmm.

hmmm i think you have this the wrong way round.

Town would post lots trying to explain things, give her reads... as scum she could have the luxery of not doing this and letting things slide a bit. Posting alot is not stalling, not posting would be stalling.

I pretty much agree. Jason, what's your read on Mina?

Hey IAI, what's crackin'? Who are your other scum reads outside Percy?

[jasonT1981]

To be honest Sotty, im kind of torn on Mina. I don't know her metas as I believe this is the first time I have played with her... I do think some things are getting twisted against her... like what ben said about her.

[jasonT1981]

Im going to ISO her tomorrow (3am and im drunk , so not a good idea to now)

[Benmage]

Hey Mina, lesson learned is follow benmage in everything if he's in lylo lynch him.

[Benmage]

And don't post so much as town when your death is inevitable. Again where's that bullet case?

[Percy]

V/LA for a two days

- celebrating my wedding anniversary!

[Thor665]

I'm already late for the Christmas party now, so I won't write a huge response to Thor (some parts of his wallpost looked townish, and others made me want to dismember him, particularly because of the snide tone

Dismembering me for snideness may or may not be appropriate.
That said - there's a reason I was being snide. Your demanded wall post was functionally asking me the same question six different ways and that after I had already answered it once - so I then had to type up a wall of saying the same thing over and over and that takes me a touch out of my happy-do-dappy usual personality. There's a reason i don't wall it up as much anymore - it keeps me beloved of all.

and his refusal to acknowledge that if you don't show your thought process in the thread, people who aren't mind-readers are going to assume that saying X looks town and Y looks scum means that X looks town, not that X is

only

townish-looking compared to Y, so stop throwing around the word "misrepping")

And the non-mind readers should still be able to look at those posts where *every time* I noted something town about you it was in direct relation to Empking.
I could change the word to misunderstanding if it really hurts your feelings, but the point is valid. I really don't see how you can look at those posts and say 'Thor thinks Mina is obvious town who it would be weird if he wanted to lynch her tomorrow' and that's what you're doing and it just doesn't follow what I said which leaves me wondering how you came to that conclusion and expect me to treat it seriously.

Way to completely miss my point. You'd be the mislynch, genius. By coasting and becoming all, "Hey, guys, let's just lynch whoever, dudes," and being loose with his reads and flip-flopping on me without explanation (and I don't care if I was really your second or third suspect all along, because that didn't show through in the thread when you never really attacked me), Thor was giving the last scum more cover if he was town. What I mean is that even if you want me lynched, try to justify yourself.

I sort of feel like the pot is calling me something here.
Okay, so I'm a potential mislynch now. If that is true I don't think it's because I want to lynch you and I don't think the cure is wallposting or trying to seem like I "care" more. You're basically accusing me of not working hard enough to look town, while suggesting it's bad because I'll be a *mislynch* which means you think I look town because I'm a mislynch and not scum. This makes no sense to me whatsoever.
Also, as noted in my post (and apparently a point you're completely missing) I didn't flip-flop on you and I did provide explanation of my vote, many times.

[I Am Innocent]

Hey IAI, what's crackin'? Who are your other scum reads outside Percy?

Mina is my #2 suspect right now. Probably then Furc or Thor.

[VP Baltar]

V/LA for a two days

- celebrating my wedding anniversary!

Seems like just yesterday. Congrats again!

[jasonT1981]

Ben, what makes you feel you are so safe from lynch/confirmed town.. i forgot to ask that.

[Benmage]

Ben, what makes you feel you are so safe from lynch/confirmed town.. i forgot to ask that.

See pgs 1 thru 50

[jasonT1981]

I have seen them, and there is nothing confirming you as safe or confirmed town.. pleasse show me exactly WHY you are safe, Ben.

[jasonT1981]

Question to everyoner... do you feel Ben is confirmed town/safe from lynch.. if so, why?

[I Am Innocent]

Question to everyoner... do you feel Ben is confirmed town/safe from lynch.. if so, why?

D3, or ever? There are much better choices D3 than Ben, so I am willing to say there is very little chance you will swing my vote that way D3...

[I Am Innocent]

As for my vagueness, I plan to keep those I think are most townie in my back pocket for now. If scum is not one of the obvious players (Percy, Mina, Furc, etc), than they will need to have people in the final 4 with them on Day 5 that believe strongly that they are townie. So to keep us from getting "used" in that way, I suggest others to do as well.

One of my favorite games was one that I made it to the final 4, and I was the one Nk'd as I kept my thoughts on the other 3 tight to myself. The other two town players made the right call, we won, but had I made it to the Final 3, I would not have made the right choice...

[jasonT1981]

Question to everyoner... do you feel Ben is confirmed town/safe from lynch.. if so, why?

D3, or ever? There are much better choices D3 than Ben, so I am willing to say there is very little chance you will swing my vote that way D3...

I meant over all, not just D3.. he seems to think he is confirmed town and wont be lynched what so ever in this game.

[jasonT1981]

to clarify.. it is just my belief that in an all vanilla game, with no means of investigation or tracking etc... no one can ever be confirmed town which is why I am challenging Ben on his belief he is. Trying to get through a Mina ISO atm all while watching Xfactor final and the NFL game.

[I Am Innocent]

Question to everyoner... do you feel Ben is confirmed town/safe from lynch.. if so, why?

D3, or ever? There are much better choices D3 than Ben, so I am willing to say there is very little chance you will swing my vote that way D3...

I meant over all, not just D3.. he seems to think he is confirmed town and wont be lynched what so ever in this game.

There are 10 of us, 9 town. We all randomly have a 10% chance of being scum. To me only 1 player is confirmed town, that is me. 8 other town should feel the same way.

Other than that, I don't sweat how Ben thinks about himself. What I do sweat is who is the most likely scum (Top 2 or 3). And right now Ben is not on that list for me. Do you think he is a Top 2 or 3 suspect? If not, then I think you are wasting time. Let's try to come to a consensus on a solid pick and see what happens. Hopefully it is Percy and this game can end already.

**********
I saw Mina take a shot at me and KD (two people not voting for her ironically), and I want to reiterate what Ben said. We are 50 pages in. I know who I think is likely scum, and unless that list is exhausted and I am proven wrong, I am probably not going to waste tons of time rereading and defending and attacking players. Sorry all. If I am wrong and I survive to the end game, I will be happy to atone for my mistakes by giving the thread and this game its appropriate time and attention.

[jasonT1981]

Do you think he is a Top 2 or 3 suspect? If not, then I think you are wasting time. Let's try to come to a consensus on a solid pick and see what happens. Hopefully it is Percy and this game can end already.

Right now yes, he is in my top 2 suspects, my vote is on him.. I also think Percy could be scum.. still really not convinced on Mina