Simpsons Mafia (Game Over)


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Post Post #75 (ISO) » Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:55 pm

Post by Fuzzy Beavers »

@DemonHybrid
Um... generally the mass flavour idea should be used to find scumz. You do flavour analysis and determine what fits or doesn't. Kind of like in Disgaea 1/2 that Dram ran. Flavour analysis did assist there, somewhat. Kinda. Maybe CEBM is better. When you take us out of RVS stage you generally have a direction to go for. I assume that means you now have a scum suspect found in Boberz.

Otherwise taking us out of RVS just to take us out does nothing since we have no starting point. Your reasoning to why a mass flavour claim is scummy. Your attack on bob is meh at best since The Fonz did the leg work in that attack.

@Darla
Um.. we are just confusing? Specifics plz. You're not being very detailed in
HOW I'M CONFUSING
. But you're simply stating an opinion. I can't clarify an opinion of observation. It's like me saying you are blue. I think you are blue. I'm missing the subtext to how this relates to your reasoning. (i.e. I think you are blue, thus you must be an ALIEN FROM A BLUE PLANET).

@Ribwitch
Or a town meta. You do realize the other side of that coin. Besides, there's juicy information to the Hydra dynamic. Maintain your pressure right now and see what happens. Just FYI:

You're very vocal about this stance which is good. This means you're sticking to your guns. Players like Demonhybrid kind of drop off the wagon for no good reason. Nor does she explain why she joined the wagon. If you consider it, I'm making people draw stances on why they want my heads to claim. People need
to explain why
they take that stance. I don't care if people want me to claim. Nor if they find it neutral. I want them to explain why.

So out of all the people doing something, DH is the worst coming out of it. Darla doesn't find me scummy, but her vote off the wagon is odd. A day 1 page 2 wagon isn't dangerous. Optimal play says that town will prevent a quick hammer. Even if a quick hammer does go through, with a fairly experienced player list, you'd find scum driving that wagon.

You can apply optimal play theory here. Newbieness won't be an issue.

@Benmage
1. Silly you, the day kill is called
a gambit
to draw
reactions from diddin
obviously since it was fake. I've drawn proof that it's likely that Tragedy and Diddin are linked players. Thus if it's later revealed that either players are scum, the other is scum. Did you not read my attack on Tragedy? I established a link through a day kill gambit. I find that gambiting is helpful.

2. Anti-town is quite different from scummy. Hell, I approve lying as a valid strategy? Hey guess what, do you know this player name Fate? Yeah do you know this game http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... =3&t=14737

Oh right he lied. He was a Bullet Proof Role but he claimed Beloved Princess. I digress from the main idea, but I don't mind analyzing the wagon that's on me.

3. If you dislike the fluff, go past the surface and look at my analysis.

Iso 2 disagrees with the Flavour claim.
Iso 5 explained the hydra arguments for everyone who didn't read Supernatural Mafia (I skimmed it)
Iso 6 shows me linking 2 players via my above gambit.
Iso 7 is questioning Darla to explain her confusion. Confusion means neutral reads. I dislike neutral reads since those are very dangerous to carry around. I want people to form opinions.

Playful is also a posting style, nor does it offer any analysis to your position on me. So your whole second point is fluffy in itself. Draw more alignment arguments.

4. I find your critism of Llamma's vote to be odd considering HE AGREES WITH YOU. So you disagree with the man who agrees with you? In fact he's doing more with his questioning on bob then 80% of the wagon then most of the people who are voting for the sake of agreement. So yeah.. contradiction of position and attacks much?

5. "shrugs" I'm seeing how badly you care (applies to Ribwitch). If you don't care enough to do some background reading, then I can't place you guys in the obv town category. I read over Supernatural Mafia when Llamma gave it. I gave you like 5 games that I was involved in. I'm in all of them. Just look at the player lists and cross check.

If you don't care enough to reread, then you're hurting my read on you. Tip the scale and let me see if you care enough to stick to your guns. That's the main point. SHOW ME THAT YOU CARE ENOUGH TO DO SOME 5 MINUTE SKIMMING.

You can guess for all I care.

The point is not for you players to get the name right, but for me to gauge who is willing to go out and find the information. Someone could spout out a randomly from all the games. But the act of people going to the threads was the important thing. Town would care enough to do that. Scum goez what ever. Lazy people remain neutral to read
. The end. My gambit revealed. I will pout nao.

@Hirakai
Early game vote hopping is a town tell lulz. Someone forgot how effective Battle Mage was. Vote hopping and multiple wagons = lots of information. Having 2 good wagons is basic mafia theory to determine reads. You can compare people relative to how they respond to other people forming links. So lululululululz
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Post Post #76 (ISO) » Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:59 pm

Post by Fuzzy Beavers »

EBWOP: - The Pouting Beaver.

PS @Jason
So you should be voting me yes? How come you're not voting me if you think meta is important JASON. Why isn't there a vote on me? This is soooo ridiclious!

@Ribwitch
Your votes should be real. Benmage explained why conditional votes fail. So yeah, have some balls (or Ribs) and do things srzly. :p
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Post Post #77 (ISO) » Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:03 pm

Post by The Fonz »

Beaver, I think DH's point is that he
deliberately
proposed a flawed plan to see what opportunistic scum would jump on it, and that
that
would start discussion, not that he was suggesting starting discussion by flavorclaiming. A trap, in other words. Since proposing knowingly bad plans isn't something scum really do, but IS the sort of thing that opportunists might jump on, it strikes me as inspired.
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Post Post #78 (ISO) » Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:06 pm

Post by Fuzzy Beavers »

Oooooh, DH is the gambit type then? Except most people shot down the flavour idea. :S But I'll do a reread now.

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Post Post #79 (ISO) » Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:07 pm

Post by SensFan »

Beaver. DTM, right?
(11:04:10 PM) senspizzaline: That's actually my bold prediction for the year
(11:04:19 PM) senspizzaline: Miami finishes 2nd in the AFCE.
(11:05:35 PM) jhawk01b: my bold prediction for the year is that whoever wins the NFC West will have a winning record
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Post Post #80 (ISO) » Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:09 pm

Post by Fuzzy Beavers »

NO WAI HOW'D YOU GUESS.

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Post Post #81 (ISO) » Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:11 pm

Post by The Fonz »

There's a difference between shooting down a proposal, and calling it scummy. The first is what all good town would do (and anyone not doing so shows themselves up as lazy or stupid or scum, which is good to know early) but saying 'Oh, X proposed a bad plan, scum!' is scummy because scum don't deliberately do things like that unless they have a chance of working. So it's either the gambit, the overeager type I mentioned before, or scum who think it's protown and are doing it misguidedly to gain town credit. In other words, pretty much null.
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Post Post #82 (ISO) » Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:13 pm

Post by SensFan »

Fuzzy Beavers wrote:NO WAI HOW'D YOU GUESS.

- DTMeaver.
DTM was the only person that I noticed that matched the first two games you referenced. But I didn't know that you knew anything about me knowing saber irl, so I was all kinds of confused.
(11:04:10 PM) senspizzaline: That's actually my bold prediction for the year
(11:04:19 PM) senspizzaline: Miami finishes 2nd in the AFCE.
(11:05:35 PM) jhawk01b: my bold prediction for the year is that whoever wins the NFC West will have a winning record
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Post Post #83 (ISO) » Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:14 pm

Post by The Fonz »

Sens, quick DTM meta from memory?
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Post Post #84 (ISO) » Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:16 pm

Post by SensFan »

Absolutely none. I honestly don't have a clue who he is, apart from the fact I vaguely remember the name from MishMash a year or so ago.
(11:04:10 PM) senspizzaline: That's actually my bold prediction for the year
(11:04:19 PM) senspizzaline: Miami finishes 2nd in the AFCE.
(11:05:35 PM) jhawk01b: my bold prediction for the year is that whoever wins the NFC West will have a winning record
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Post Post #85 (ISO) » Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:20 pm

Post by Fuzzy Beavers »

Then you're looking at the people who attacked DH for your analysis. Which means,

Me - Shot down the theory. Sez DH is scummier for voting reasons rather then flavour idea.
Boberz - Sez scummy for claim idea. That's all
SottyRulez wife husbando hydra. - Sez DH is scummy for voting reasons and poor counter wagon attacks.
Zang - Sez that the flavour claim idea doesn't give information to help the town, and poor counter voting shows scumminess.
Hiraki - Repeats above, and sez there is more but he won't say.

So the scummiest of the DH attackers are Boberz and Hiraki who explain their votes in detail. Both Shotty, Zang did. I shot down the theory. I see now. I agree with this line of thinking

Unvote, Vote Boberz


- Da Beaver.

The Fonz I gave you games that I was all involved in. Want links? Scum games town games? Most are found in the DTM wiki that needs to be updated.
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Post Post #86 (ISO) » Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:21 pm

Post by Fuzzy Beavers »

Self metas are poor, but I'll give you a list for you to judge. Benmage, Jason, Sottyrulez, my other head, Deer, Nacho, diddin, Zang, maybe more can give you my meta. :p

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Post Post #87 (ISO) » Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:23 pm

Post by The Fonz »

I don't necessarily want your games, I wanted other people's quick and dirty assessments of your playstyle. In-depth meta is probably wasted on hydras. Something I did in textmafia was to ask Vi when she replaced in to give me a quick rundown of what she would expect from each other player, and that was kinda useful. Anyway, signing off for the night now.
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Post Post #88 (ISO) » Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:25 pm

Post by Fuzzy Beavers »

Also say hi to Sabrewolf for meee! :3

- Da is not The Beaver

Edit: Ah I see.
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Post Post #89 (ISO) » Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:46 pm

Post by diddin »

DTM has a town leader meta from what I've seen. He's a very good player.

I'm gonna go ahead and guess the other head is Nikanor?
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Post Post #90 (ISO) » Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:15 pm

Post by Fuzzy Beavers »

EBWOP: I made a grammer error. Bob and Hidaki didn't explain their votes. Not "did"

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Post Post #91 (ISO) » Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:18 pm

Post by diddin »

Hiraki wrote:DH needs to die. His vote hopping and opinion are anti-town.

Not to mention, his alignment could really help this game.

There's more I could say, but I don't really want to.

Vote: DemonHybrid
Since when has anti-town play been equivalent to scummy play?

IMO votehopping is null unless it's obv flailing, especially so early in such a large game. Also, withholding information.

unvote, Vote: Hiraki


die scum!
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Post Post #92 (ISO) » Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:30 pm

Post by ribwich »

Benmage wrote:Indeed. However if he maintains this stance of being difficult and scummy he will, for me at least, reach a point of no return. Are we expected to ring him up to L-1 for a simple claim. And then what he throws his hands up and goes "fine" and claims...What a fucking waste of time that would be.
Oh definitely not. There's a point of no return for me as well. I don't want to say what exactly that point is, because that'll just encourage them to keep this going for as long as they can, but it won't be much longer before I'll have had enough of this.
Fuzzy Beavers wrote:Or a town meta. You do realize the other side of that coin.
So you're saying you want to hide your town meta? I don't even see how that makes sense.
Fuzzy Beavers wrote:The point is not for you players to get the name right, but for me to gauge who is willing to go out and find the information. Someone could spout out a randomly from all the games. But the act of people going to the threads was the important thing. Town would care enough to do that. Scum goez what ever. Lazy people remain neutral to read . The end. My gambit revealed. I will pout nao.
Or you know, people that would rather spend their time on actually getting reads on others will go what ever. The people that care enough to dig up information will emerge when they provide cases about whether something fits someone's meta. Trying to play this stupid game with you when you can easily just tell us who you are is a waste of energy.
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Post Post #93 (ISO) » Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:38 pm

Post by Wraith »

LA until Monday
due to domestic problems that have spontaneously appeared as of yesterday.
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Post Post #94 (ISO) » Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:53 pm

Post by Benmage »

So it is DTM and.....
"ITT Benmage is making Shakespeare look cool. I need to bring you to my high school." -Vi
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Post Post #95 (ISO) » Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:05 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

Benmage wrote:So it is DTM and.....
diddin wrote: I'm gonna go ahead and guess the other head is Nikanor?
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #96 (ISO) » Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:08 pm

Post by Benmage »

Yeah but was that confirmed?
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Post Post #97 (ISO) » Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:13 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

don't think so.
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #98 (ISO) » Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:25 pm

Post by DarlaBlueEyes »

Where I might find a bit of pride in being neutral and hard to read, honestly I am just a bit unsure of myself after such an extended break but what the hell, if I make a fool of myself here it's only ridicule and shame to face, amirite?

Despite how confusing I find the hydra concept, I feel fairly confident that Beavs is acting pro-town so far, generating good discussion and thought without leading as scums so often do (I find the fluff makes things more enjoyable anyhow, and honestly there really is a lot of good content within said fluff if you look for it, and his big post actually helped me more than my own reading.) I would like to know more about him, sure, but a lynch at this point seems unwise and premature.

And am I just missing something or did diddin not react at all to the 'gambit of a dayvig' thing before? (I am a bit busy so I'm not really reading as carefully as I probably ought to be. shame on me.)

Hiraki could you please elaborate on what 'more' there is on your vote-reasoning please?
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Post Post #99 (ISO) » Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:21 pm

Post by Deer »

Shieeett this already started?
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