Simpsons Mafia (Game Over)

[Sleepless Assassin]

Hopefully I'll finish this read today. It might come as two posts though. I'm starting where I left off, which means this goes back as far as Page 9.

Tragedy, I asked Boberz why he didn't vote because most people lay a vote in their first post if that takes place on the first page. It was a potential lead because some scum want to wait and see where the crowd is going or they fear stepping on toes when everyone is making their first impressions. Boberz didn't reply as if he was under any pressure to vote or anything. He basically just said it's his meta, which was fair. I agree with you that no one absoulutely has to vote right away. It's just normal, so when I saw someone go against what is normal, I asked why. Just like Demon's massclaim suggestion. I don't like how you shrug off my reasons for voting you as "irrelevant" and "doubting we need to go there". Sure, your stance on that particular issue seems to stem from other sites where what you say may be, and probably is, true. However, you were trying to shrug it off as meaningless before I posted with this stance. And making me your top suspect for it is just pure OMGUS. Not laying a vote looks like knowing that it's OMGUS and not wanting to be called on it. I also don't like how you ask two people in that post what they think town should look like. Seems like subtly asking for advice and I hope neither boberz or diddin answered.

Hiraki's 207 actually looks townier than what I've seen from him so far. Specifically, the part about Darla. Hiraki has a town read on Darla and others have a scum read. My first instinct when I see this post is to think the fact that he wants to try and understand the case is town mentality. However, it's also possible that I'm wrong and he wants to set himself up to change his mind. The scum side requires more active thought though, and I usually lean more toward human nature tendencies than active thought. Consider it a small town point in a pile that includes all of his earlier scum points.

Nacho, if you think Sotty/Zach is only scum if they survive the night, why would you post that rather than hold on to it as a note to yourself. If that is your honest read, you've completely nullified it now that scum are aware of it. If Sotty/Zach is town, scum can keep them alive to keep you suspecting Sotty/Zach. If Sotty/Zach is scum, they can argue that scum did the first if you try to use it against them. Either way, your read has been nullified. That's not something town should openly put in thread.

Sotty's 216 gives me scum vibes. Not sure what it is. Maybe the Darla V/LA thing looks misreppy. Actually, same with the thing about her reaction to Diddin's reasoning on Jason, who Sotty also thinks is scum. Dunno really, just something is off there. I think I've seen around the site that Sotty is really good as scum, so maybe that's tainting my read a little.

I think The Fonz is unknowingly giving Tragedy towncred for being new. Townpoints for The Fonz because I think town players' reads are usually clouded that way more than scum. (And anyone who might say I'm using that just because my Sotty read may be clouded, let me be clear that this town tell doesn't apply to myself. If I was scum, I'd be looking at people the same way I do as town and I pride myself on the ability to do that.)

Diddin, can you go into detail about how Jason and Tragedy aren't likely scum together. I see your reasoning as more of a connection than a point against them being buddies. Personally, I don't see Jason as scum without any flips yet, but that can easily change after analyzing some future flips.

Guderian, why are you so surprised that Hiraki, one player, is missing from Llama's, one player, suspect list? Is the entire game supposed to suspect this one player? <-Looks like Guderianscum pushing Hirakitown as scum. Starting to be less sure of Hirakiscum the last few pages and this affects that even more, but only if Guderian is scum.

Deer, two questions. What about Nero's ISO stands out as scummy? And what made you look closer at him specifically? Actually, a third question. Did you look at any other players, or just Nero? And if so, who, why, and what did you think? Oh, and if you did, why not share this to begin with?

Tvella looks scummy for the "slight scummish" read on popular scum pick Darla, followed by an immediate vote. Why Darla over someone who you find scummier?

Darla's 244, while it may seem sexist, is something to consider. I don't know how many people have played with Starbuck or UncertainKitten, but I've seen the same thing from them in a few games I've glanced over. Also to Darla, what is "contradicting" about any of my play so far? What have I changed without properly explaining? More so, what had changed at the point that you made that post (Page 10) where I had, what, two posts?

And like I said, this is going to take more than one post. I'm sitting at a desktop computer and have to go, but I have access to a laptop shortly. I'll get back to this within the next hour or so.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Benmage

Mainly for reasoning around the FB wagon. He joins on after SensFan, agreeing with his reason to vote until the heads are claimed, but then he says this, which makes it seem like he's more interested in getting the lynch and he could really care less about the names.

If Sotty/Zach is town, scum can keep them alive to keep you suspecting Sotty/Zach.

In this scenario, Sottyrulez is alive. I'm happy.

If Sotty/Zach is scum, they can argue that scum did the first if you try to use it against them.

Of course, I won't use this as part of my case against them.

[Nachomamma8]

Tragedy's vote on SA may have been scummy, but SA obliging without comment was a thousand times worse...

[Sleepless Assassin]

Ok, Part Two of today's read. Probably won't finish considering pages 9 and 10 took me nearly an hour. And I'm on an unfamiliar laptop, so this is going to go pretty slowly.

Vote count at the Top of Page 11 shows that Darla, Hiraki, and Jason are the top wagons. If I had to pick between those, I'd vote Hiraki. None of the three would be my top choice for a vote through the first ten pages though.

Demon, you mention that the focus is on Hiraki and Jason. Why not Darla? You mention her in the post where you vote Jason, but not the one where you talk about where the focus is. And in the post where you vote, you didn't say why you chose Jason over Hiraki. You gave a point against Jason, but not why he is a better place for your vote than Hiraki. And it's weird that Darla comes up in the vote post, but not the one before it. Wait. Uhh.. lol? You switch your vote to Hiraki a few posts later without adding reasoning. Now, why Hiraki?

I like Sotty/Zach's vote on Diddin. Pretty much the same thing I noticed on this read, but with a vote to top it off. I'd still like Diddin's response before I act with a vote, but yeah.

Sotty and Jason, about Nacho going inactive and then returning later, he kind of did that in a Newbie game I was in where he IC'd. I was scum in that game and I feel like I remember getting him lynched late in the game. So yeah, he's done that as town. Null tell.

Tragedy, that vote on me is amusing. Is voting for you a scumtell without that somehow being OMGUS? I don't understand why you are being so blatant with the whole "I'll vote you until you unvote me". This is unbelievably scummy. It's so incredibly blatant. Explanation please. <- Lol at how boberz basically said this exact thing already, but with less detail. Ok then.

Tragedy, "realize his wrong doings"? Huh? Voting me is going to make me see you as town, how? How about just play the game and if you are town, we'll be able to judge that for ourselves. Also, what ribwich said. Why does one vote matter so much that you are going to use the power of your vote to try and get rid of it. Agree with Jason as well on this. The word "need" is pretty...scumtastic.

Boberz, why is it "clear" that Tragedy's playstyle is survival first regardless of alignment? As town, shouldn't she be hunting scum before worrying about one vote on her?

On Guderian's post about Llama, you're right and wrong. Wrong that Llama is scummy for voting his top suspect, but right that he should at least comment on the leading wagons so we know where he stands. Llama, what are your thoughts on Jason, Darla, and Hiraki? (Actually, I think you've mentioned that you don't see Darla as scummy. Maybe Hiraki too. Still, I'd like it all in one place and up to date).

Tragedy, explain what you mean by "elaborated town read" and "bait" in the post right before mine (Oh, hey, I caught up to one of my posts).

Deer, either elaborate on why Darla is scummy or agree to disagree.

Wraith, I don't think Beaver was ever in serious danger of being lynched for not saying who they were. Elaborate on the Hiraki vote please.

Jason, I hadn't seen Tragedy's "need" post when I unvoted. I was only up through Page 8 on my read. If Tragedy's post right before mine had mentioned my name, it probably would have caught my eye if I looked at my post after I made it (can't remember if I did or not), but she referred to me as "he", so it wasn't really noticable.

I can't shake the feeling that Hiraki's seven votes in the vote count on Page 13 has scums on it, but the wagon looks relatively town. May need to look at the players on that wagon more closely if I'm ever caught up with some extra time. If not, it would be really cool if someone else could look into this because I'm honestly not sure I'll have the time any time soon. I'm looking for weak reasons to vote and maybe some things in their ISO I may have missed on a full read.

Next time I get to post, I'm reminding myself here to start on Page 14. Almost there, but gotta get going. Might try and do the rest from my phone, but that could get messy.

[Deer]

Okay, agree to disagree.

Nero jumped out at me because his posts were completely content-less. I looked over some other ISOs, yeah, but no one stuck out to me like Nero did.

[Nero Cain]

Nero jumped out at me because his posts were completely content-less. I looked over some other ISOs, yeah, but no one stuck out to me like Nero did.

[Tragedy]

"Need" is for you to start commenting, but "bait" was for somebody else arguing or speaking against me. Pretty much the bait got jason to do so.

About the advice for "being town" was just for opinions, since they thought my play
was truly scummy (Yeah, I know).

Thee trap was also to get people's reaction as well anyways. I apologize for that OMGUS, but your wrong doings was just a silly add-on for fun, but it feels quite scummy.

Also, there's a third party role around here, I wonder. prepare to suffer, Sideshow Bob.

[Nachomamma8]

@Deer: I was never too good at translating emoticons... Are you saying that Deer is scummy for this?

@Tragedy: Did you get reactions? What did they tell you? Why do you care about a third party role just now?

[Wraith]

@Sleepless: I simply don't like his ISO, with a good heaping of gut piled on. Like I said, I'm a bit burned out in terms of the "analyze shit" part of mafia.

[Deer]

When I called you out, Nero, you had done nothing but dick around and make useless posts. It's true.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Ok, may as well finish this before I go to bed for the night. So, to Page 14.

Jason, the off site reasoning from Tragedy was the lynching in RVS thing, which was really the only thing that stood out in the first few pages. It looked like scum playing the cautious card for town points. I conceded that point as soon as we learned that Tragedy has seen that happen off site. However, the lack of stances, OMGUS vote followed by the unvote after mine, and survivalist mentality are just too much to ignore.

Llama, the lack of a vote can potentially be a scum who didn't want to step on toes or wanted to wait and see what stances were taken before placing a vote. Ok, not anything highly likely, but on Page 1, I'll take it. And Kage's post wasn't just "commenting on a funny joke", it was potentially reacting to a scumbuddy's name being thrown out there. Again, not a big deal most of the time. But Page 1 where not much more had happened and Role PMs are fresh in everyone's mind. Neither of the two posts was one where I was going to push a lynch until it happened, but it was a start at trying to get some early reads. About the Demon thing, the conclusion I came to is that he was probably just failing miserably at actually turning the game serious in some kind of attempted protown way or something. He's either town who legitimately wanted to do this or scum after town points. Seeing his later posts, I lean town. As for the "big thing", I must be missing it because I don't know what you mean. On Hiraki, uhhhh, yeah "well what Hikari did is scummy, unless he is a town power role that has information" WOULD BE scummy if I'd actually said it. I'll say it again. Hiraki had already said enough to confirm that this WAS NOT why he said what he said. Therefore, it's safe to point out that Benmage gets scum points for probing for this info that didn't actually exist. And I fail to see where I used "over reaction" as a scumtell for either Benmage or Hiraki. And I'm actually back and forth on Boberz. It seems like anything that he does that is scummy has a logical explanation from either alignment. The only thing that really stands out is the mild tell of his reaction to some votes early in the game. Why you are trying to get me to vote him is something I don't understand. Tragedy is much scummier. Deer is scummier. Even Diddin, who I'm also back and forth on, is scummier. Hiraki is maybe scummier.

Nero, why is Tragedy being new a town tell?

Deer:

Deer, two questions. What about Nero's ISO stands out as scummy? And what made you look closer at him specifically? Actually, a third question. Did you look at any other players, or just Nero? And if so,

who, why, and what did you think? Oh, and if you did, why not share this to begin with?

Please answer the bolded. I also find it weird that you agree to disagree on Darla when:
A) If you want her lynched, and pushing her as scum implies you do, you aren't interested in convincing me to vote her.
Aa) This seems like you don't actually care if she is lynched, meaning you don't legitimately suspect her, meaning you are scum who just chose her as your target.
Ab) This explains your early tunneling. Looks like scum just trying to park a vote and look active enough to get by.
B) I give you the option to either elaborate on your scum read, which a town player should be more than happy to do, or just leave it alone and you choose to leave it alone. Why?

Nacho, fair enough on your Zach/Sotty stuff. And as I said before, I hadn't read far enough to see Tragedy's stuff when I unvoted.

Tragedy, you said you needed my vote to be removed from you. How does that translate to needing me to be more active? And I don't buy the bait thing at all. And what are you talking about with the third party stuff?

Vote Tragedy

now that I am caught up. Wouldn't be too upset to see Deer hang either. The Hiraki wagon isn't my favorite, but definitely not the worst choice.

Some quick reads, towniest at top, scummiest at bottom, complete with a one-liner for everyone: (I'm gonna categorize this. It looks like a mess as one long list)

Scum who need rope ASAP

Tragedy- Not interested in finding scum, just wants to survive. I feel like I've gone into enough detail on this one.
Deer- Scum tunneled on Darla early, doesn't seem to think his targets are scum, and doesn't want to explain his reads.

Next set of scum reads

tvellalott- Lazy Darla hop sucks.
diddin- Back and forth, leaning scum.
Guderian- Hiraki push looks too fake. Might have more on this if I can analyze the wagon. Need to look into him more.

Wanna say scum, but second guessing

hiraki- Play is mostly scummy, but minor town tells too. Seems like he's being pushed by scum. I have a scum read, but can't help but think it's wrong (Weird, I know)
sottyrulez- Gut says scum, but possibly clouded by knowing Sotty is good scum.
boberz-Can't really make up my mind. All scuminess seems pretty well explained for town too.

Meh, maybe scum, but don't really have much

Benmage- Didn't like the Hiraki thing but that's about it.
SensFan- The only thing I remember him doing was pushing Beaver to say who they were.

No/weak read

Zang- He's in this game?
Nero Cain- This guy's hard to read.
Wraith- Doesn't seem to want to play. Can't really read that.

Townish?

LlamaFluff- Debating heavily. Looks town, but I know he's a good player as either alignment, so I'm waiting to form a solid read.
Mariyta- Haven't seen much, but haven't disliked much either.
Fuzzy Beavers- Looked good earlier, but where'd they go?

Town reads that I'm decently confident about

DarlaBlueEyes- Looks town and wouldn't be at all surprised if scum pushed her wagon.
jasonT1981- Seems town so far. Don't understand the case on him.
ribwich- No problems with his posts so far. Find myself agreeing with him when I read his posts.
DemonHybrid- Looks town to me. I like his scumhunting attempts so far.
KageLord - Probably town. Sounds so genuine in every post.

The towniest of the towns

The Fonz- Pretty confident in this town read
Nachomamma8- Pretty sure he's town. I saw a game where I knew he was town throughout, so I like my meta on him.
Sleepless Assassin- Town. Derp.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Ok, let me take a look at this Hiraki wagon:
Mariyta, Benmage, Guderian, ribwich, DarlaBlueEyes, DemonHybrid, Wraith

Mari:
Didn't really say much. Hasn't voted anyone else. Didn't provde reasoning with vote. Most elaboration we got was that Hiraki seemed to know Darla was town. Not much about Hiraki, but not much in general either. Hate to say it, but this one's hard to figure out. Gotta call the vote null, so I guess my town read stays.

Ben:
Weird. A lot of early content. Unexplained Hiraki vote. Disappears. +Scumpoints.

Guderian:
Votes Hiraki and promises reasoning later. Reasoning is that he withheld his reasoning and wanted to reread Darla, who he'd called town. Those are crap reasons. Then he acts shocked when Llama doesn't include Hiraki as one of his scum reads. His posts have a general under the radar feel as well. Reeeeaaaalllllly don't like Guderian here.

ribwich:
Rib didn't like Hiraki's "scrap it" reaction to Demon's massclaim suggestion. He's stuck with this read/vote while still commenting on other things where necessary. Seems fine to me.

Darla:
Apologizes for earlier play and calls Hiraki, along with others, contradicting. Questionable, but not really scummy.

Demon:
Says he is trying to decide between Jason and Hiraki, then votes Jason with added reasons. Unvotes Jason shortly after only to vote Hiraki with NO added reasons. No later elaboration. If Hiraki is scum, I could see bussing. If Hiraki is town, I can see Demon as a sheep which doesn't really say much for alignment.

Wraith:
Says he "can get on board" and that's all. Later says he doesn't like ISO and has a gut read, but doesn't really care about the game. I think he's just trying to progress the game to get it over and done with. Null tell.

So we have:
-Mari, a town read of mine, laying an unreasoned vote, but explaining later
-Benmage, an active player, voting without reasoning and then lurking
-Guderian, with an absolutely terrible vote
-Ribwich, laying an acceptable vote.
-Darla, probably just a town sheep
-Demon, either a HirakiBussingBuddy or a sheep
-Wraith, sheep.

If Hiraki were to flip town, I'd be interested in pursuing:
Benmage
Guderian
Possibly Demon

If Hiraki were to flip scum, I'd definitely look into Demon, but mostly no one on this wagon.

Seven players on a wagon, if Hiraki is town, 2-3 scum actually looks about right.

I have to reluctantly say that Hiraki makes sense as town in this situation with BenmageScum and GuderianScum on the wagon.

[sottyrulez]

Sleepless Assassin, what's your previous game experience with Sotty7?

[jasonT1981]

Jason, I hadn't seen Tragedy's "need" post when I unvoted. I was only up through Page 8 on my read. If Tragedy's post right before mine had mentioned my name, it probably would have caught my eye if I looked at my post after I made it (can't remember if I did or not), but she referred to me as "he", so it wasn't really noticable.

Sotty... oh Sotty, whats your take on this one?

[jasonT1981]

@Mod: can we get a prod on Fuzzy Beavers? he aint posted since Monday.
Nacho - If you were not going to use it against Sotty, why even bring it up?
Ben needs moe content when he gets back online.

Wonder where Sens has gotten to.. he promised content and nothing yet

I haven't had time to keep up with this game the last couple days. I'm putting aside some time tonight to catch up and contribute.

[sottyrulez]

Sotty's 216 gives me scum vibes. Not sure what it is. Maybe the Darla V/LA thing looks misreppy. Actually, same with the thing about her reaction to Diddin's reasoning on Jason, who Sotty also thinks is scum. Dunno really, just something is off there. I think I've seen around the site that Sotty is really good as scum, so maybe that's tainting my read a little.

This was the stage of the game were Darla was getting ready to throw her toys outta the pram. A few people had commented on her being scummy and she came back trying to say it was because she was V/LA, this was false. Sarcasm or not, the tone of her post was pretty bad. There is no misrep here.

Jason, I hadn't seen Tragedy's "need" post when I unvoted. I was only up through Page 8 on my read. If Tragedy's post right before mine had mentioned my name, it probably would have caught my eye if I looked at my post after I made it (can't remember if I did or not), but she referred to me as "he", so it wasn't really noticable.

Sotty... oh Sotty,

whats your take on this one?

?

Sleepless was doing a full game re-read that only got up to page so and so, while you selectively skimmed and chose to ignore the reveal of DTM only a couple of posts down from your name. I fail to see the similarity.

On top of that you are ignoring post 346. Nothing to say?

Also bold, gloating? I don't know... But I hate the tone here.

~Sotty

[DemonHybrid]

Um...

Town reads that I'm decently confident about
DarlaBlueEyes- Looks town and wouldn't be at all surprised if scum pushed her wagon.
jasonT1981- Seems town so far. Don't understand the case on him.
ribwich- No problems with his posts so far. Find myself agreeing with him when I read his posts.
DemonHybrid- Looks town to me. I like his scumhunting attempts so far.
KageLord - Probably town. Sounds so genuine in every post.

Demon:
Says he is trying to decide between Jason and Hiraki, then votes Jason with added reasons. Unvotes Jason shortly after only to vote Hiraki with NO added reasons. No later elaboration. If Hiraki is scum, I could see bussing. If Hiraki is town, I can see Demon as a sheep which doesn't really say much for alignment.

I'm just confused about this. If your 2nd post stated "Demon is either bussing or "meh I dunno", why do you have a confident town read on me the post right before?

[Scott Brosius]

Vote Count 9

Benmage(1)-Nachomamma8,
boberz(1)- SensFan,
DarlaBlueEyes(3)- KageLord, boberz, tvellalott,
Deer(0)-
DemonHybrid(1)- Zang,
diddin(1)-sottyrulez
Fuzzy Beavers(0)-
Guderian(0)-
hiraki(7)- Mariyta, Benmage, Guderian, ribwich, DarlaBlueEyes, DemonHybrid, Wraith,
jasonT1981(2)- diddin, Nero Cain,
KageLord(1)-Fuzzy Beavers,
LlamaFluff(0)-
Mariyta(0)-
Nachomamma8(1)-jasonT1981,
Nero Cain(1)-Deer,
ribwich(0)-
SensFan(0)-
Sleepless Assassin(1)-LlamaFluff,
sottyrulez(0)-
The Fonz(0)-
Tragedy(1)-Sleepless Assassin,
tvellalott(1)-hiraki,
Wraith(1)-The Fonz,
Zang(0)-

Not Voting(1)-Tragedy,

With 24 alive, it's 13 to lynch. Deadline is January 27th at 1pm (EST)

Prodding Fuzzy Beavers, tvellalott, Mariyta, Zang

[Sleepless Assassin]

Denon, I posted the list before I looked more closely at the hiraki wagon.

[Mariyta]

Terribly sorry for the lack of posting. Unexpected loss of internet. On the plus side, my access is no longer limited. Will catch up and post either today or tomorrow.

[jasonT1981]

Sotty.. your 346.. I have already explained everything and you keep pushing for answers I have already given you.

Also, I don't buy this from you that me and SA not seeing something are different, we both didn't see something however you push me on it but let SA off with it. thats double standards from you regardless. Situations are identical, we had not fully caught up and posted without seeing something yet its scummy for me, but not for SA.

V/LA for the weekend. Ive had a shit week and I am going now to get VERY drunk

[The Fonz]

Ok, so... the reason I didn't want to reveal my reasons was to encourage other people to look at Wraith independently and assess what they saw, and to see how people reacted to it. Basically, to paraphrase DH, I did a re-read after unvoting Jason to find a new candidate, and saw him as a low-volume poster who didn't really offer much in the way of original thought and jumped a popular wagon whilst sliding under the radar, and those kind of people are usually as good a bet as anyone to be scum D1.

So the interesting things to come of that from my perspective are that Jason was willing to take a look for himself, which I think is a town sign, DemonHybrid jumped immediately to the meta defence, which might be interesting once we have a flip on one or other, and a load of people just kinda ignored it. DH, no, I didn't personally have any meta. Your list of things he tends to do was interesting because those three things (well, maybe not wagoning per se, but certainly the way he did it) are basically the exact things I look for when scumhunting.

[Fuzzy Beavers]

DTM Head here. Catching up will proceed now. Thank Nikanor for posting in my absense.

- The Missing Beaver

[Wraith]

God I'm really sorry, reading the posts SA is making makes me feel like a total jerkass to the mod. I've got a busy schedule until Sunday, but then I'll try to actually get things done.

[Fuzzy Beavers]

@Ribwich
This post
1. No I'm saying that you can't meta me at all. You can't compare me to my town meta, nor can you compare me to my scum meta. It's called risk versus reward play and if you can't meta me, that means you either whine about it or do something to invoke a response. I'm gauging how you're scum hunting and it's quite unimpressive sir if you're stuck over meta. If you eliminate meta as a way to attack someone, then DO SOMETHING ELSE. Townies WHO CARE ABOUT SCUM HUNTING WILL FIND A WAY. Being stuck about meta is an excuse.

2. If you consider "rereading games" to figure out information on your own "to generate your own reads" to be a waste of energy then I have one thing to say: Loololololololololololololololololol.

Also it helps ME get a READ ON YOU. So lololololololololololol the irony is funny. The guy using meta finding in his arguments, WON'T DO ANY WORK TO FIND META READS ON THE PLAYER HE'S ATTACKING.

@Jason
This post
1. Except I've been withholding meta information from you to do your analysis. You were in a position where YOU COULD META ME but YOU COULDN'T. Because you have the possibility of ANALYZING ME FROM THE META ANGLE that you STRESS SO MUUUUUUCCH ABOUT I'd expect some attacks. or Votes.

But now you have 1 head. Your read sir. Or are you going to spout theory all day like fluffy scum.

2. Why are you arguing about the fact that you didn't know the meta before the half of the head claim. You know, you could do something and actually meta read me now. K? K.

This post

3. I find some of the arguments to be weak. Especially the "lack of posts" considering that the thread is near hyper activity and its like 5 pages in. Your quick switch from your stance on meta (i.e. that you require meta to read and that you should have voted me) to silliness feels so much like a cop out. Terrible terrible stance switching makes you delightably lynchable.

@Mariya
This post
1. Hey hey, you complaining person. The complainer. You know what Llamma did? Oh right he referenced a game that he expected everyone to read. You know what I did I REREAD (well skimmed it) TO VERIFY INFORMATION PRESENTED IN GAME. If you are lazy, then that's your issue not mine. And if you hold me accountable, then you must hold everyone accountable mister whiny pants.

You know what else bugs me? The way that you disapprove of my play after you ATTACK THE WAGONERS. You either disapprove of something I did and agree with the players, or you disapprove of those players. You literally are attacking the wagonees and the wagonners. Way to agree with both sides at the same time.

I call you on fence sitting. I call you on a neutral read. I call you on lack of STANCE. Way to scum hunt sir. WAY TO HAVE LIKE NO STANCE ON THIS WHOLLLLE PROCESS.

I also dislike the Hideki vote because it falls under the same logic as The Fonz's vote analysis. A vote without an explanation (i.e. You did not attack the player's logic, but you just called him scummy)

This post
2. Also I like the commentary about my arrogance. Townies has a pension to be more emotionally invested (this is one of Jason's town tells) in games or responses. Both self meta (from my first newbie game), to SFG in invite 7/ emotional play like that is generally a town tell.

3.

@Tragedy
1. Ew Why are you complaining about a possible town lynch Any lynch can result in a town lynch. A RVS derived start is a starting point. If we are wrong then we analyze why and who might exploit the fact that we are wrong.

Town lynch = bad. But the reasons are town derived, we got rid of a scum SUSPECT. Scum would exploit that. Then we analyze it. If we worry about the statistics and think freeze because there's a good chance town will die due to mislynching, then nothing would get done.

Worrying about a town mislynch = awful at this stage. That means you're not focused on hunting scum. You're focused on being wrong. And if you're town you're not looking for ways to be wrong. You're trying to find ways to convince people that your case is good because you are right. Only scum would know if they are wrong. If you feel that X person is town but he's a lynch potential, then DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. That's how you stop mislynches.

You are focused on theory over actual analysis. Scum lies here?

2. Ew.. so you're lecturing Tvell here in this post. I don't mind the theory debunking. I do mind though based on you critisism on Tvell you didn't make a clear read on him. Because of his vote do you think he fits the definition of sheeping town? Or is he just scum doing the easy bandwagon? What's your insight? I want more of that.

@Hideki
This post

1. Your hydra talk is odd since you are annoyed at my knowledge of Nikanor being my other head, but you find the whole hydra talk to be anti-town. I explained why I witheld information, and what my gambit was. Did you not read that?

2. Vote hopping can be a town tell. If you don't explain yourself why then the argument can't procede. Battle Mage demonstrated that the best day 1s involved lots of wagons. That town show less attachment day 1 to their targets because at the start you're fishing for scummy people. You start of with a list of people, and you're by yourself in your reads. Thus you attack lots of people, and gauge people on their reactions.

This is one theory that explains it.

I can see how vote hopping without reason is scummy (easy wagon), but if you EXPLAIN yourself and PRODUCE GOOD ANALYSIS and USE IT AS A TOOL then it's still a good tool for reaction fishing.

3. If you don't know anyone's alignment ANYONE COULD BE WRONG. So you attack them TO FIGURE IT OUT. Lynching is ONE SOURCE OF INFO. If you literally took a shot in the dark and killed people without reading the posts, then you're randomly picking scum by chance.

If you DON'T DO SUPPLIMENTARY ANALYSIS WITH THE LYNCH RESULT YOU END UP BACK AT SQUARE ONE. The idea that a lynch is required for your read is absurd. The idea that the lynch changes your initital analysis is better. So this whole idea is stupidly scummy. Excuse to not analyze check!. Pushing a wagon for information sakes, check. Not taking care to note the votes, who voted, why they voted, lol check.

@The Fonz
I'd be willing to investigate the Fonz if I were a cop simply cause his defence of DH is suspect. I find it odd that he steps in to defend her using insight about DH's motive when DH didn't explain it. Paranoia just dawned on me about this.

Lunch time. I'm behind and on page 7 (sorry). I'll catch up over the weekend as well.