Simpsons Mafia (Game Over)

[Mariyta]

Vote: Mariyta

I don't like your "I take responsibility for my vote..." post

after the back and forth I did with Fonz.

The first part I understand (and was expecting someone to jump on it). I don't understand what the bolded part has to do with it, though.

Yes, Fonz, she could have confirmed it and yes, it makes those on the wagon scummier, but there seems to be a lot of discussion about her role and less about that of the people on the wagon.

Hey Mariyta. I'm uninformed majority, and it didn't look that scummy to me that it would completely override the normal townie desire to ensure it was very clear what was being said before hammering a claimed cop. An informed minority member would imho jump at the chance to off a strong PR and not look scummy for it, though.

I didn't say this. DH did.

[The Fonz]

Meh, I suppose I didn't look at it in that context. I'm biased and haven't been taking into account that the Mist wagon didn't really explode until a bunch of people jumped on later.

Should I take that last comment as a "I think Hiraki is town" read?

It's an 'I think the Hiraki wagon is, and was, bad' read. He's more likely town than scum in my eyes because of that, although his actual play is pretty middling to me. It's notable that people like Mariyta who are responsible for the Hiraki wagon being bad also jumped off to go after the claimed cop. Of the two, I think kage is scummier.

Incidentally, Wraith is pretty likely town as a result of being willing to reconsider his position after looking at things from a different angle.

[SensFan]

Fonz, what implication did you read when you first saw him ask me if I knew things that he didn't?

[The Fonz]

That it was one of those lameass attempts to imply that someone has insider knowledge ie is scum that town seems to come out with annoyingly often.

[SensFan]

Interesting. I still think the original inflection was asking about role information, rather than Scum.

[boberz]

Ok I have not read the posts since I last posted yet. Sorry, I am just checking in to say that a proper post will occur tomorrow.

[Nero Cain]

unvote;vote:Fonz

Its more of a pressure vote though I do see him pretty scummy.

@Nero: I don't believe I ever did change my mind. What gave you that impression?

You ended up voting Mist and you've yet to vote for either vote Kage or Hiraki. Why?

Basically on day 1 he said that Mist was being pushed b/c Kage and Hiraki were scum wagons (calling them scum) then switched his vote to Mist. Then today, despite Kage and Hirki STILL being scum (in his view) he's NOT voting for them.

[Mariyta]

unvote;vote:Fonz

Its more of a pressure vote though I do see him pretty scummy.

@Nero: I don't believe I ever did change my mind. What gave you that impression?

You ended up voting Mist and you've yet to vote for either vote Kage or Hiraki. Why?

Basically on day 1 he said that Mist was being pushed b/c Kage and Hiraki were scum wagons (calling them scum) then switched his vote to Mist. Then today, despite Kage and Hirki STILL being scum (in his view) he's NOT voting for them

while attacking everyone on the Mist wagon

.

I fixed it for you!

Also, why did you feel the need to qualify it as a "pressure vote"?

[Nero Cain]

Thanks Mari.

I want him to answer my question. That's the pressure part but I guess you're right I don't think I'll be taking my vote off him unless someone does something really really stupid.

[jasonT1981]

I fail to see anything remotely scummy about Fonz TBH

[Nero Cain]

So "Hay these two people are scum but I'm NOT going to vote them." isn't scummy?

[Steven Hacking]

Unvote

My vote+nothing was intended to put a little pressure on Jason who was my top scum pick from day one, to see how he took it... not as I expected. I'm not sure exactly how I feel about the Hibbert claim, but it is reasonable enough. He does have some excellent breadcrumbing, though some seem to have referenced more recent episodes that I am unfamiliar with. I feel old, or maybe just forgetful. I don't mind the timing of it, because as we found out yesterday, we may end up with lynches faster than we might expect, as I think alot of us came back to an unexpectedly early twilight/night.

This Hikari v. Diddin et. al. reads alot like town tunneling town to me. Neither of them have done anything particularly scummy. I really do despise the tone that the discussion took however, and wouldn't mind voting one of them if we didn't have actual scum hunting to do.

Deer didn't do much yesterday, I don't think that we can get much informaiton from his death.

Re:Fonz Your observations and analysis are solid. I think though that it is benefiting from 20/20 hindsight and your excellent inference. While the "cop bit wasn't THAT outlandish," it was pretty outlsandish given that we only had our own roles to get an idea of how plausible it would be for Homer to be a cop, and I doubt cop was the first role anyone associated with Homer. And I don't blame anyone for having difficulty understanding exactly what Mist was saying. That said, Rib did hammer sooner than we needed and warrants some scrutiny.

I feel reasonably strongly that the following are town:
Sotty,
Fonz,
Wraith

I feel reasonably strongly that the following may be scum:
Tvella (MIA, otherwise my vote would likely go here. needs replacing)
Tragedy (seems to be acting even more neutral survivorey/sheeping)
Nero (posts alot of nothing/iioa)
Kage (Posts at length but doesn't bring anything new to the table. Does more to end discussion (which is logically sound and fine) but does little-nothing to instill it. His mist vote also seemed very sheepy and contributed to the momentum of the wagon. see also: yesterday)

Vote: Kage

[Lowell]

I agree with 931. I see hypocrisy in the hindsight about mist.

fos steven

- 936 bothers me a little. The first paragraph looks too defensive about the jason vote (while remaining conveniently neutral on the claim). Then he focuses on an argument between two other players (framing the debate as about only them) despite confessing that he thinks they're both town. Last, the list of town-players looks suspiciously like a list of aggressive players it might be good to keep off one's back while the list of scum look like lurkers/folks unlikely to raise a stir about a vote. The whole post just reads like defense to me, hoping to buy a few days before having to do anything.

[The Fonz]

unvote;vote:Fonz

Its more of a pressure vote though I do see him pretty scummy.

@Nero: I don't believe I ever did change my mind. What gave you that impression?

You ended up voting Mist and you've yet to vote for either vote Kage or Hiraki. Why?

Basically on day 1 he said that Mist was being pushed b/c Kage and Hiraki were scum wagons (calling them scum) then switched his vote to Mist. Then today, despite Kage and Hirki STILL being scum (in his view) he's NOT voting for them.

So much craplogic here that it makes my head hurt.

My argument was that it didn't make sense for scum to be pushing mist unless both were scum, and I didn't think that was the case, therefore I concluded that the mist wagon was being mostly pushed by town (and thus, thought it worthy of my support, as opposed to the Hiraki wagon in particular, which looked scummy to me), contrary to Wraith's attacks on Sens et al who were pushing mist. Like, the exact opposite of what you said here.

Did the notion that I would be call Kage and Hiraki both scum, and then go vote for mist, not strike you as utterly bizarre? Did you completely ignore my previous post before this one in which I said that Hiraki was a townish read? I mean seriously, WTF?

Interesting. I still think the original inflection was asking about role information, rather than Scum.

'Do you know something I don't?' to me I basically always infer as 'Are you informed minority?'

Basically on day 1 he said that Mist was being pushed b/c Kage and Hiraki were scum wagons (calling them scum) then switched his vote to Mist. Then today, despite Kage and Hirki STILL being scum (in his view) he's NOT voting for them

while attacking everyone on the Mist wagon

.

I fixed it for you!
[/quote]

I'm not attacking 'Everyone on the Mist wagon.' You may note I have repeatedly defended the initial wagon, the one that forced the claim. Hell, if she hadn't claimed, she'd probably have been vigged anyway. I thought, and still think, it is and was better than the Hiraki wagon. I have a specific problem with those people who weren't on the wagon before, but voted for her AFTER she claimed cop, as as far as I'm concerned claiming cop should make you less, not more likely to vote someone, and because scum has an obvious interest in discrediting/hammering the town cop. These people- esp. Mariyta/ribwich- are megascummy in my eyes.

[The Fonz]

Re:Fonz Your observations and analysis are solid. I think though that it is benefiting from 20/20 hindsight and your excellent inference. While the "cop bit wasn't THAT outlandish," it was pretty outlsandish given that we only had our own roles to get an idea of how plausible it would be for Homer to be a cop, and I doubt cop was the first role anyone associated with Homer. And I don't blame anyone for having difficulty understanding exactly what Mist was saying. That said, Rib did hammer sooner than we needed and warrants some scrutiny.

I don't blame people for having difficulty understanding, but I think the normal town reaction to not understanding would be to clarify, not to quickhammer. 20/20 hindsight? Maybe. But when I left the thread, I'm not sure mist was even the leading wagon. I come back the next day, and the thread's locked, and she's been quickhammered. I read through the events around the claim and I get a really strong 'WTF is going on? Am I missing something here? What the hell is so scummy about that?' reaction to her claim and people's comments on it.

I wouldn't necessarily associate cop with Homer, but it's not beyond the realms of believability. I mean, he is a... nay THE central character, and important characters often have strong roles. I mean, I probably wouldn't have quickhammered someone who claimed Homer OR cop, let alone both!

[SensFan]

Interesting. I still think the original inflection was asking about role information, rather than Scum.

'Do you know something I don't?' to me I basically always infer as 'Are you informed minority?'

How would Scum have information that Mist lied about her claim?

[The Fonz]

How would town? She hadn't used the ability yet.

[DemonHybrid]

Fonz, you're missing the point. It wasn't the fact that she claimed cop. It was that she claimed cop and asked to live, then a popular simpson's character, then specified the cop role, which made it seem weird. THEN she asked to live again. And THEN she brought up her neighborizer power. And then AGAIN she asked to live. And you're surprised that she was quickhammered?

[The Fonz]

You're surprised a player wants to live? I just don't get the emphasis you're putting on this. She gave the rolename because she was asked to.

[DemonHybrid]

You're surprised a player wants to live? I just don't get the emphasis you're putting on this. She gave the rolename because she was asked to.

She never gave her rolename. Please point out where she said "I am a Springfieldian Cop/Family Man".

[SensFan]

How would town? She hadn't used the ability yet.

Fonz, you're much smarter than this.

[The Fonz]

You're surprised a player wants to live? I just don't get the emphasis you're putting on this. She gave the rolename because she was asked to.

She never gave her rolename. Please point out where she said "I am a Springfieldian Cop/Family Man".

By rolename I meant 'Homer Simpson.'

How would town? She hadn't used the ability yet.

Fonz, you're much smarter than this.

I really wish you fuckers would stop being stupid and cryptic, it's really getting on my fucking nerves. How can you possibly know for sure she's not a neighborizer when she hasn't had a chance to neighborize?

[DemonHybrid]

The fact that she claimed "I am Homer Simpson" in a completely different post worked against her.

At this point, I'm firmly believing that you aren't looking at this from a town perspective any longer.

Unvote, Vote: The Fonz

[SensFan]

First of all, because she originally didn't claim Neighbourizer, she claimed that she "could also talk in a QT with Other family members of my family at night".
Secondly, her new claim was that the person she chose would be guaranteed to be Town, which would give her:
(a) Two investigations per Night
(b) Someone she knew was Town to tell her results to privately

Don't you think that might have been a

tad

overpowered?

[Wraith]

While I'm still "eeeeeeh" on the reason for Fonz jumping to Mist yesterday, I'm not buying a Fonz wagon yet.

Everyone, keep an eye on Hiraki. Maybe it's because a small number of us have been going back and forth like crazy, but I haven't seen him post in a while.