Stars Aligned III - The Tenth Day

[Trilobite]

Also important: Trig doesn't mention Feysal again the rest of the day after this exchange.

[Iecerint]

Thank you. I see what you mean.

You are very workmanlike.

[Iecerint]

So are you keeping a spreadsheet, or how did you have such ready access to that information? Or did you hunt after I asked nicely?

[Triglav]

Since you're busy playing lets-not-answer-any-real-questions, AKA The DEFLECTDEFLECTDEFELCT!!! game, you won't get a direct response from us about any of your VP rants until you explain, in slow and painful detail why you stalked Feysal over us.

I'm talking about why you thought Feysal was cult over us, over VP, over Nacho. In a perfect world you'll deliver quotes showing your working even. I don't understand why this is so hard for you to do, you had to reason it somehow last night right?

...Right?

Already explained this.
Will use small words this time.
Lolololol Nacho *or* Feysal is scum must lynch from them - want to lynch correct.
Believe Nacho is scum - want him lynched.
If he is lynched and is scum everyone goes 'yaaay, we are awesome and Triglav is smart'
If he is lynched and is scum Triglav kills Feysal scum and everyone goes 'yaaay, we are awesome and Triglav is smart'
Bases...covered.

Now we shall explain Trilo plan;

Stalk feysal.
Call feysal scum.
Call VP scum.
Get excited that scum has stalked scum - demand that they murder.
Decide no to use your own stalk on scum.
Declare desire to lynch yet another player via PoE.
Declare personal brilliance.
Use hypocrisy to avoid answering question about it.
Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuur.

Amazing, we understand both plans. Feel free to turn your brain on any day here.

[Triglav]

If he is lynched and is TOWN Triglav kills Feysal scum and everyone goes 'yaaay, we are awesome and Triglav is smart'

Triglav is smarter in own head than when typing.
Trilo is still suck though.

[Trilobite]

So are you keeping a spreadsheet, or how did you have such ready access to that information? Or did you hunt after I asked nicely?

We've quoted one of these posts today already. Plus we have been talking about this ever since Trigs weak ass CD yesterday so had the link on hand after we double checked his posting yesterday. What's your stance on all this now Iec?

Trig is

still

deflecting.

Explain why Feysal when you didn't think he was scum yesterday. Why is this so hard for you?

I get the Nacho/Feysal pairing, I get it. This is not rational for your stalk however. This is you falling back on desperate motivation. Also if you believe nacho to be scum your stalk of Feysal makes even less sense and makes you look really fucking scummy, unless you are trying to say they are both scum?

You seemed to think Feysal was town yesterday your stalk makes

zero sense for your player slot.

Until you can point me out to why you stalked Feysal over anyone else it's just going to sound like cult bullshit.

[Iecerint]

See here is the thing. Here are the players that I have bad feelings about:

1. Trig (because he's given me a bad tummy feeling since I replaced in)
2. Trilo (because your *play* reminds me of *my* scumplay, even though I know that should not rationally apply to everyone)
3. VP (because of his kunk situation yesterday)
4. Nacho (because of 1/1)
5. Feysal (because of 1/1)

The problem is that THOSE ARE ALL OF THE PLAYERS WHO ARE GIVING ME INFORMATION/ANALYSIS ABOUT WHO IS SCUM (EDIT: beyond "here is my heart" + xvart did some stuff too I guess - Feysal is not playing the game but ye know).

THIS IS EXTREMELY FRUSTRATING.

Well I mean I also technically have bad feelings about Nicky, but I recognize those to be pretty much 100% irrational, so I ignore them.

In an ideal world I would just do it myself, but it's enough work to vet some of the "100%" claims people make.

My current thought overall is that Trig would appear to be a rational lynch.

[Trilobite]

Here's the deal in a nutshell. Trig lurks the opening of day nine like crazy, he has to be prodded to even post his CD.

IN THE MEANTIME

Everyone else checks in, discussion starts and claims are made, one of which is our stalk of Feysal. Feysal also claims that he took Marked as an insanity this morning. This means it will take

two rezz kits

to save him.

So, it is safe to say that there is no way the cult are rezzing Feysal tonight, which means we get to kill him. Excellent.

REMEMEBER

Yesterday Trig, with Ben's help, was trying super hard to lynch us. There was some weak support of this from Nacho however, this stalk of Feysal effectively takes us off the lynch board for the day.

The only thing that once again makes us a viable lynch candidate is Trig's counter stalk. It's too perfect and in case you couldn't tell, we don't believe it for a second.

LETS NOT FORGET

When Trig first came back from lurking, he voted VP despite having clearly read our claimed stalk.

Well, essentially there is leeway for one insanity to be chosen differently with how hito made the list. I took mutilation as my sixth insanity, as prescribed by the list. It was an executive decision that I still feel is protown. I think me having access to equipment is more important in late game than people checking me with forensics tools.

And at near endgame when scum cannot afford to be laundering it does what for us?

Hate Trilo stalk - demand Triglav get murder. Triglav is capable of inflicting mass death and wishes this known.
Want lynch Nacho murder Feysal for assured scum death if mislynch happens.

And, there's the whole VP was rezzed by cult the night TNM tried to murder him thing. I've heard some different theories, but really, it only makes sense to rez him if he's scum. I mean, which one of these scenarios is more likely:

QFT.

SNIP

Vote: VP Baltar

We kill Feysal, tomorrow Trilo.

So many things wrong with this. So MANY.

-This is all he said about VP before throwing his vote on. What happened to his push on us? oh... We can wait till tomorrow. THINK ABOUT THAT. We'll come back to it.

- Among his bullshit rational for stalking Feysal is so he can murder to confirm himself. Notice he is all happy to be the one to kill Feysal despite us claiming a stalk as well. How exactly does Feysal's death confirm him to anyone with us alive and going into night? It doesn't.

-His vote of VP over us today makes no sense. Here's what Trig said about VP yesterday

Spoiler:

@VP

We asked a question in general to make sure we understood the plan moving forward of stalks/lynches/suicidal testing. (something we suspect is important that everyone understands and is on the same page, duuuur)
After a few hours with no responses I bemoaned the loss of Seacore. (who would have answered us)

You then claimed we were lazy scum.
We became petulant.
Now we are here. How are things for you?
We didn't think the logic flow was that complicated - if we are lazy scum you could at least do town a favor and answer us so we don't have an excuse later to mess up our night actions 'accidentally'.
Not rocket science.

Why is everyone who was all super excited about "coin flip is more certain" suddenly leaping on VP and avoiding the elephant in the room that is kunk?
VV - in the above sentence 'everyone' is 'you'.
We feel lost - please show us map.

I thought you were going to kill Kunk tonight?

That was our understanding too.
However VV went from 'we can't lynch Trilobyte, not sure enough it's scum, we need to lynch coin flip option'
Thus, intended goal is optimize scum lynch.
Now all of a sudden - VP, wheeee!
This is more certain than coin flip or Kunk?
And the excuse is 'but scum didn't press for lynch earlier (when alternate option was Andrius) and now he is pressing it?
WTF my friends, WTF.
Want more input on logic.
Also want Trilo lynch.

WE DEMAND AN ALL CAPS REMOVAL OF THAT FOOT IN MOUTH.

But, yes.

The VP case isn't LOLOMGWTF but the logic that scum didn't push VP because they...sacrificed Andrius...as a distraction...and nobody who was town had anything to do with catching Andrius...
ANd now all of a sudden he's being pushed?
And he's being pushed because he wasn't pushed earlier?
That is LOLOMGWTF.

Are we stalking or is stalking disallowed now?
We suspect it has become every man for himself clusterscrew at this stage, yes?

VV and us can stalk, xvart assures flips, everyone else can go crazy we suppose
Ben, we are against a tnm stalk if there is also a VP stalk, TNM only dies if VP is scum, so TNM stalk is only happy fun times if VP is lynched tomorrow and flips with extra insanities.

Speaking out against the VP case in an attempt to get us lynched was the Trig mandate late yesterday, yet SUDDENLY FROM NOWHEWRE LIKE A BOLT FROM THE BLUE.... VP is scummier than us. Talk about a leapfrog! Talk about weak sauce reads! But why... Why?

- Trig can't actually murder Feysal and needs us alive to go though with the stalk. This is why at the the start of the day he pushes

really

weakly on VP instead of pushing us. This is why he suddenly breaks out the shitty rhetoric of us trying to protect VP WHEN HE WAS OBVIOUSLY PROTECTING VP JUST YESTERDAY.

I can't see TownTrig doing this flip flop, it makes no sense. It is full of cult reasoning.

On top of this Trig doesn't actually think Feysal is cult

If he truly wanted to slove the Nacho/Feysal issue he would have stalked Nacho according to his suspicions.

The only reason he has claimed a Feysal stalk is to PREVENT us from being cleared. It is a desperate cult move that makes me think Feysal isn't lying about taking Marked, but is also cult.

The world is becoming a very small and bright place for the cult, that much is obvious.

[Iecerint]

OK. That is a beautiful narrative and it all makes sense to me. It also doesn't really take much SoD on my part to see Trig as scum, anyway.

I will wait a few days to give everyone a chance to weigh in.

[Nicodemus]

Yeah, that is a well-made case Trilo. I still think VP is scummier though, and I would prefer to lynch him today.

Could we just make it VERY clear to Trig that he is NOT to kill Feysal tonight, and that if he even CLAIMS that he did, we lynch him? That way, you're still free to get your murder on tonight without possible interference?

@TNM: I don't really car for your plan, because a townie dying today and a townie tonight does not guarantee a scum win. It would be 8-3, so scum couldn't quicklynch a suicidal player as they would need 4 votes. And, basically, I don't like the idea of lynching a townie when there's scum that need to be lynched instead.

[Triglav]

@Trilo;

What is hard to understand about stalking 1/2 of coin flip choice?
We feel like we are crazy one.
If choice is coinflip then YOU LYNCH ONE AND STALK THE OTHER.
Also, you talk about our defense of VP when what we actually said yesterday was IF WE WANT ASSURED SCUM LYNCH WHY LYNCH VP AND NOT KUNK?
And everyone was like, duuuur, duh, yeah?
And you were already talking about a plan with Feysal murdering VP, which means you NEVER WANTED TO MURDER HIM UNTIL WE CLAIMED THE SAME STALK AND SUDDENLY IT'S OH NOES!!1! OBVIOUSLY 'WE' MUST MURDER HIM.
And we really want to murder so we can be confirmed and laugh as we dance on your grave, duuuuur.

We are deflecting nothing.
Saying it over and over doesn't change that.
You are goofy scum.
Case is only well made if you are dumb, so we suppose this town could still buy into it, but wtf?

@Iec - please tell us you at least see the point where Trilo didn't want to murder Feysal until *after* we said we had also stalked him.
Suddenly it's a assured definite that he's murdering him now.
Then ask why that is?

[Trilobite]

@Iec - please tell us you at least see the point where Trilo didn't want to murder Feysal until *after* we said we had also stalked him.
Suddenly it's a assured definite that he's murdering him now.
Then ask why that is?

lol

This never happened. Die now.

Oh, and on the matter of your Feysal vote. Since he's claimed marked, it basically means he is confirmed scum tomorrow if he doesn't die.

I'm confused...who's claimed marked and who is confirmed scum?

Feysal claimed marked, and we have a stalk on him.

[Iecerint]

I don't see the evidence that Trilo wasn't always going to kill Feysal. Show me what you're talking about? It looks to me like he was always intending to.

[Trilobite]

All three of those posts happened before Trigs counter stalk claim.

As did this one.

Claiming that we never wanted to murder Feysal is really really silly.

[Iecerint]

Yeah. That sounds bogus to me.

And I think his reference to the 1/2 chance is an attempt to riff off of the question I asked you a few days ago.

I'm sold on Trig for today.

[Feysal]

Acknowledging prod. Sorry about lack of content in this post, I will post again after reading the pages I've missed.

[xvart]

Vote: Feysal

I still don't get why people prefer Feysal over Nacho considering contributions, but there is almost certainly scum between them and it's worth finding out which.

How does this compare to what you were saying yesterday?

Vas, my point was that I DO think we should lynch out of those two today. My argument with you is in saying it absolutely HAS to be one of them. I just don't like chaining lynches like that.

I still don't see how your argument yesterday makes any sense; and I don't believe you ever justified it (at satisfactorily enough for me to remember). If there is scum between the two of them and we lynch one that flips town what could possibly be the hesitation with lynching the other one the next morning?

I also don't like his turn around and bailing on the likely 50/50 shot of scum lynch for Nacho.

Something about TNM's 5313 really rubs me the wrong way. I keep getting Seacore and TNM confused, but TNM is not confirmed Investigator, right? It just seems a little too strange that everyone except Benmage and I allegedly got fetishes, and the only thing I can think of now is either now that a Cult member has flipped an excessive number of insanities compared to their number of claimed insanities Cult is trying to catch up to their actual insanity count; or (tin foil time) they were all passed fetishes so someone could drop this plan into place.

Cult could have had more than one fetish of a player. As such, lynching Benmage will probably eliminate a town player without changing the suicidal threshold. Killing just him is not wise. It's the same reason I didn't murder him last night.

Then why did you Stalk him in the first place? In the worst case scenario we would have lynched town yesterday, which at the time of your decision to Stalk Benmage would have put us in a worse situation than we are in now. Then you bail because lynching Cult made it better in game state but a poor decision overall?

Scratch my Corpse Dust idea. I was wondering why Cult would not use it when they had it but I guess holding onto it for endgame would be a good idea if they didn't have a convincing way to get some from the Grave Robbing. Using it to kill confirmed Seacore probably was the best bet at that juncture. And since the only two opportunities to get Corpse Dust was early in the game they must have held onto it.

I find Trilo's case very convincing, and Triglav's response very underwhelming. If they were basing their decision on the coin flip aspect they should have stalked the person they were going to lynch, especially in light of how anxious they are to confirm themselves. If it really came down to one or the other they would have lynched who they thought was Cult and announced as such and then we could have lynched outside the threshold instead of creating a way to once again not Murder.

I agree that I would rather have VP lynched today, but I don't think we can afford to let this duality and 50/50 stuff go on any longer.

[Iecerint]

I stalked Benmage because he told me to stalk him just before the day ended, and Seacore confirmed it.

[Percy]

Vote Count

*whisper whisper*

Triglav - 2

(Trilobite,

Triglav

, Nachomamma8)

VP Baltar - 1

(Nicodemus,

Nachomamma8

,

Triglav

)

Nachomamma8 - 1

(VP Baltar)

Trilobite - 1

(Triglav)
Feysal - 0 (

VP Baltar

)
Benmage - 0 (

Triglav

,

Triglav

)
xvart - 0 (

Triglav

,

Triglav

)

Not Voting (5) - (Benmage, Feysal, Iecerint, totallynotmafia,

Triglav

, xvart)

The deadline for today's lynch is Monday, 7 March 2011 at 10:00:00 PM (default site time).

With 10 alive, 6 votes secures a lynch.

[Trilobite]

We agree that VP is scummy, however, his lynch can be delayed till tomorrow.

We cannot delay lynching Trig or us because of the importance surrounding the Feysal stalk. Unless you can convince Trig to not "murder" tonight. One of us has to be lynched to enable us to get a confirmed townie tomorrow.

I don't think TNM is correct when he says everyone who got a fetish can't be ritualized over night. I vaguely remembering having this conversation before and didn't Percy say cult can only pass one fetish, but can have multiple fetishes of one player?

So yeah, we think both VP and Trig are cult, so we can always lynch VP tomorrow if Trig continues to posture around the Feysal stalk.

[totallynotmafia]

Dang, I thought cult could only have one fetish because Seacore always used to say he was safe from the NK after he was passed a fetish, but it says in the q and a that cult can have multiple fetishes. There goes that plan. I realised anyway that if we did lynch BM nobody would be able to murder as the cult could just forgo the NK if we mislynched and then lynch xvart tomorrow.

Back to scum hunting I suppose, I want to do a thorough reread (mostly of night actions) before I place a vote anywhere seeing as we're in mylo.

[totallynotmafia]

*multiple fetishes of the same person

[totallynotmafia]

Is there any way to save an entire thread to your computer so you can view it offline?

BTW Benmage, Feysal and xvart still need to claim all their night actions.

[Iecerint]

Well, cult may feel like they have to burn their fetishes if they have extras that they can't use, and they probably work on getting one of each player early on, so that would explain SC's PoV.

But now that they've had 8 nights, I think the chance of doubling up is a little greater.

[xvart]

N0 - I warded MoI
N1 - I warded El Goosuki
N2 - I stalked Fuculow
N3 - I murdered Furculow
N4 - I laundered and robbed grave
N5 - I stalked Benmage
N6 - Search
N7 - Rob Grave x 2
N8 - Rob Grave x 2