American Gods Mafia - Game over

[Locke Lamora]

Sorry about the absence, hopefully will get to this tomorrow.

[farside22]

@MOI: I don't put the hammer of town as my sole reason for finding you scummy. There are a few things I didn't like. The ythill interaction was one. But now I find this inconsistent with your claim.

Because Sacrificing is more helpful to Town than lynching if the target is Scum. It’s not rocket science there. My result on Saint meant the chances of him being a Town PR are pretty much Nil. No need to worry about bringing him back via Ressurection.

In your belief of Saint and saying you watched Fate get shot. Why not think he was a vig?
If he was a vig then voting out the role and seeing the flip would help the town if you are a town back up that you claim you are. Also if Saint is a SK do we know if he would flip just SK? What if there was more to him that you as a "back up" could have for the town.

Now a question to you – your first Sacrifice of the Day was to sacrifice me to resurrect Apoki. Why didn’t you vote me instead of sacrificing me? If it’s because you have a scum read on me then my conclusion is you are grasping at staws in your questioning here. Because you are softly insinuating my behavior is scummy (Sacrificing someone I have a scum read / info on instead of voting) when you did the exact same thing.

My read on you is not 100%. You saw watched Fate and he is dead and have only one person who you pointed out visiting Fate. That in itself is damning. Also see above about the PR possibility you didn't think about.


Now mind you this is all mute since Saint is claiming something all together unrealistic, but you never asked Saint what his read on Fate was or tried to see if there anything there.

Finally: I was not the one that had a town read on OGML. I made a statement that Fate had the read. He keeps dodging these points and it doesn't go unignored.

unvote:
vote: OGML

Seriously. I gave Fate's views so thoughts but the issue is none of what he stated has occured and you just come across as floating by scum.

[LlamaFluff]

@Farside - With that result from MoI, I dont see him thinking Saint is anything but scum. The only way it could mean Saint-town is if he was a vig who killed Ythill (who was fairly obv town to me and most) and then Fate (replaced Nexus so not an impossible, but improbable vig kill). I just dont buy it, and the claim cements it. MoI is probably town from all of this believe it or not.

Still say Sea > OGML.

[farside22]

@Farside - With that result from MoI, I dont see him thinking Saint is anything but scum. The only way it could mean Saint-town is if he was a vig who killed Ythill (who was fairly obv town to me and most) and then Fate (replaced Nexus so not an impossible, but improbable vig kill). I just dont buy it, and the claim cements it. MoI is probably town from all of this believe it or not.

Still say Sea > OGML.

This reminds me of one more question.

MOI: Is your back up ability for all alignments?

@Llama: OGML either needs a kick in the ass or he is scum lurking. There is still time for discussion on this.

[LlamaFluff]

Im not saying quick lynch, but I still have a lingering town read from OGML day one, and his ask to be sacrafied added to that a bit. He has given back a few points as of late, but he isnt one of my prefered lynches. Will take more then "he lurks" to make me flip on that one.

[farside22]

Just needed to make sure I wasn't going crazy. But this is most definately a lie:

This thread opened Saturday. My last post in any of my regular games was Friday. My only posts in games on Saturday were Marathon games. I posted in none of my other on-going games. I didn’t have full time to post until Tuesday and guess what – this game was my VERY FIRST STOP.

I looked and on the 22nd you were not posting in a marthon game. You posted in one of your games. So I ask again since you were behind why follow Fate and not see what the vote count was? Why avoid this game for the day during the discussion when you were clearly on MS?

[farside22]

Im not saying quick lynch, but I still have a lingering town read from OGML day one, and his ask to be sacrafied added to that a bit. He has given back a few points as of late, but he isnt one of my prefered lynches. Will take more then "he lurks" to make me flip on that one.

I don't have a lingering feeling any more on OGML. Fate had a point but since OGML didn't follow threw it doesn't = town. Also the sacrafice is null. Scum could say it to look town, town says it when for reason's that I don't want to get into as it's more info for scum.

What points of late has he made?

[LlamaFluff]

Im not saying quick lynch, but I still have a lingering town read from OGML day one, and his ask to be sacrafied added to that a bit. He has given back a few points as of late, but he isnt one of my prefered lynches. Will take more then "he lurks" to make me flip on that one.

I don't have a lingering feeling any more on OGML. Fate had a point but since OGML didn't follow threw it doesn't = town. Also the sacrafice is null. Scum could say it to look town, town says it when for reason's that I don't want to get into as it's more info for scum.

What points of late has he made?

I still consider the asking to be sacraficed a slight town tell. As of late he has done nothing though, and I really disagree with most of his reads on people. Either way, not enough to push the lynch of him at this point. Day three is not the right place and time for a lurker wagon. It would be nice to know his flip, but not nice enough to put it over Sea.

[farside22]

@Llama: Why did you say that OGML has made points of late then?
What did you think of my comments on KK?

[LlamaFluff]

Given back a few points ie Town Points (non transferable Llama-Bucks, actual cash value 1/1000 of a peso).

You do have some good points on KK, just like my push on Sea more at this point. The not wanting to bring back Apoc is bad to me.

[AGar]

I'd hammer you into oblivion if that was so, a thousand times. I know he flipped scum, and that was great, but that was not an optimal vig-killing N1.

That’s patently stupid logic. You’d hammer someone for getting a correct result (killing Mafia) because you don’t feel it is

optimal

play? Really?

Yes. Also, because I think you'd be fakeclaiming to save your ass. It WASN'T an optimal vig shot, so anyone claiming to be a vig shooting Ythill is either a) Retarded or b) lying.

[Jahudo]

”The action of a fine wife. Freeing you from durance vile and murdering those who would have harmed you. You should treasure her, Nephew Ainsel.”

SGRaaize and LynchMePls have been prodded

Resurrection Vote Count

7 Votes Required

Apokalyptika (9) – A Gaggle of Geese, Llamafluff, farside22, Seacore, OhGodMyLife, Locke Lamora, LynchMePls, AGar, MagnaofIllusion

Not Voting (4):

SGRaaize, Saint, Kublai Khan, WrathChild

--------------

Sacrifice Vote Count

7 Votes Required

Saint (7) – WrathChild, AGar, MagnaofIllusion, LynchMePls, Seacore, farside22, OhGodMyLife
Kublai Khan (1) – Saint
Seacore (1) – Llamafluff

Not Voting (4):

A Gaggle of Geese, SGRaaize, Kublai Khan, Locke Lamora

--------------

Lynch Vote Count

7 Votes Required

Seacore (3) – LynchMePls, Llamafluff, OhGodMyLife
MagnaofIllusion (3) – AGar, Saint, A Gaggle of Geese
OhGodMyLife (2) – MagnaofIllusion, farside22

Not Voting (5):

SGRaaize, WrathChild, Locke Lamora, Kublai Khan, Seacore

--------------

Backstage Vote Count:

Top Four Players Go Backstage

Farside22 (5) – A Gaggle of Geese, LynchMePls, WrathChild, Saint, farside22
A Gaggle of Geese (5) – A Gaggle of Geese, Llamafluff, farside22, Seacore, LynchMePls
Llamafluff (5) – A Gaggle of Geese, Llamafluff, farside22, WrathChild, Kublai Khan
Locke Lamora (5) – Seacore, OhGodMyLife, Saint, Locke Lamora, MagnaofIllusion
-----
Seacore (4) – Seacore, Saint, Locke Lamora, Kublai Khan
LynchMePls (3) – Llamafluff, LynchMePls, MagnaofIllusion
Kublai Khan (2) – Locke Lamora, Kublai Khan
OhGodMyLife (1) – OhGodMyLife

Not Voting (9):

SGRaaize x3, AGar x3, WrathChild x1, OhGodMyLife x1, MagnaofIllusion x1

Day 3 ends on April 12 at 6:00 PM EST

[farside22]

Mod: please prod SGR and LMP

They have been prodded. -Mod

[Saint]

I thought I was dead...
thanks for making me claim Bodyguard WC
Also, you seem to have known about me being roleblocked

unvote;
vote: WrathChild

[AGar]

Ok, this really needs to be put out there, because I'm literally dumbfounded that this is going on right now.

MagnaOfIllusion claims to have ONLY seen Saint visit Fate last night. A ninja is very possible, but

A) If Saint was ROLEBLOCKED, MoI wouldn't have seen him visit.
B) If Saint was NOT ROLEBLOCKED, Fate would be alive. Or we have a strongman ninja. You do the fucking logic there.

[Seacore]

Back from v/la

Glancing around it seems we have people departing the MoI wagon... oh and jumping on mine, okay.

Yeah, granted my "ogml do this" "ogml did this, he's bad" looks bad at a glance. But asking somebody if they will do something or to provide reasons why not is not the same as hammering without thought. Also, I find it interesting that OGML claims to have always found me scummy and yet was willing to follow my request to sacrifice saint. But saint is going to die and that's great.

At this point I'm for either a MoI lynch of an OGML lynch.

[farside22]

@Seacore: Who else do you find scummy and why?
@Agar: I don't think anyone without some brain cells connect actually believes Saint at this point.

[Kublai Khan]

Prod dodge. I'll have a good post up later today.

[farside22]

@MOI: Why would you "watch" Fate over Llama who was practically hitting people over the head that he had a PR?

[LlamaFluff]

@Sea - We are not lynching MoI anymore given the results claim. See my arguement earlier for why it makes more sense as a town then scum role. Given how bad Saint seemed to butcher his "claim", I think MoI caught scum. With the info role stuff I know about, MoIs role actually seems balanced.

@Agar - You are ignoring the possibility of fakeclaiming scum.

[A Gaggle of Geese]

so
we sacrifice saint
and if he flips what he's claimed (unlikely....both heads think he's a killing role of some sort, and given he didn't claim vig that puts him at SK), what then?

[LlamaFluff]

We sacrafice MoI the next day since the chance of MoI being town with his role, Saint being a bodyguard, if scum have a RB them targeting Saint, and if scum have a ninja them having killed Fate is a situation im willing to call statistically improbable.

So we arent lynching MoI.

[Locke Lamora]

Right, read back over everything I've missed. My thoughts:

-I think I half-understand what Saint's claim is, but the way he's claimed it reeks of changing his mind about what his role is halfway through the claim, which speaks for itself. It's so ill-defined that I'm sure it's not his real role.

-MoI's claim seems more plausible, but I do have concerns over its compatibility with the rest of the setup. Thus far we've seen fairly ordinary roles (tracker, watcher) so a limited universal backup sounds out of place. I also agree with GG's point about it not seeming to fit in with a setup where PRs can be revived. The things that give me pause are that his result on Fate looks legitimate and the role fits very nicely flavour-wise. His hammer yesterday was still damn scummy and I think Farside's question in 1218 is an excellent one. Unless he can justify that, I think he's the best lynch.

-KK's insistence that we don't resurrect today seems ill-conceived to me. As far as I'm concerned, this is an optimal time for the first resurrect and it means we'll have a confirmed town power role alive relatively far into the game. Watcher is a great role to have back and if we do need a second resurrect then we have one available. The chances that two more roles die that we desperately want back AND we are able to double-lynch safely on D4 and D5 (which is what he's proposing would most likely require) are very slim. If we only had one resurrect then I could see why he'd want to wait a bit more, but I don't think it's such a valid concern with two.

-OGML has managed to scum up the thread again with his vote-hopping and lack of attention being paid to the game. He definitely seems to have dropped his effort levels since he stopped being a main lynch candidate and now he's shown up to jump on a couple of wagons with no other contribution to the game. Would be happy with this lynch if the MoI one is not happening.

-Llama's Seacore case makes some valid points, particularly his insistence in parking his vote on me and then not really being interested in my response, but I don't think it makes him anywhere near as scummy as MoI or OGML. I definitely think we have far better lynch candidates today.

-If Llama and I are going backstage then I'm satisfied that at least some of the membership is getting rotated. Would like to see continued rotation of these spots as the game continues.

To conclude:

Sacrifice: Saint
Vote: MoI
Unelect: Seacore; Elect: Farside
Unelect: Kublai Khan; Elect: LlamaFluff

[Seacore]

I'm okay with not lynching MoI today as long as it's understood that even if Saint flips scum, that does not clear MoI. I've seen gambits in the past and cutting Saint out of the remaining scum is a fairly cheap gambit in my books.

@Farside I'll give you my list a bit later when I've had a chance to write it up. Busy at work this morning

@Locke I assume you mean my D1 voting for you. I was actually very interested in your response, the problem was that I missed it. I had my vote on you all that time because I thought you were ignoring my concern. When it was finally brought to my attention that you had responded I took the vote off

[LlamaFluff]

I cant get behind a MoI lynch at this point.

We essentially have a claim-counterclaim situation, where one of them is a whole lot more realistic. What I dont like is how many people are voting each of them, when the Saint-scum side is througougly busted at this point. What I am seeing is a large group of people going to getting the scum lynch and the PR lynch all at once. The sacrafice of Saint with the lynch of another is the best way to go about this, since it leaves most likely MoI-town alive, ends up with Sain-scum dead, and we get another shot at scum, which means we can do better then 1/2, which is the best we can realistically do with the Saint-MoI combo here.

GG and Locke need to explain this one quite a bit. Do you think they are both scum?