Nintendo Mafia (Game Over)

[Espeonage]

ta da, i'm back. Will read over what happened on the weekend in a sec.

[sorasgoof]

I'm still working on post, and I'm through page 8 or so. Will be done soon (but still probably not tonight).

[The Master Hand]

Vote: THM

The way he went about attacking Lelouch looks scum motivated.

And what exactly is this alleged scum motivation? Lelouch was in no way an asset to the town. He turned out to be VI who managed to garner enough scumpoints within only a few posts and deserved our initial vote. He defended terribly, claimed scum, and insulted players. Jackalope did not do enough to change our minds. Oh, and he fails at crumbing. Just made him look like a janitor.

Andy and I were planning on making a long catch-up post, but we are both very tired and bitchy atm thanks to the thing called college. So I apologize in advance and promise to be more active when I don't have three essays to write.

-

Toast

[Espeonage]

I thought I explained. LVB was town because that was the type of VI he is. some VI's are just dim, some are trolls and some are idiots. I'm not going to go into my classes of VIs.

Basically the type of VI LVB was is the kind that trys while scum and doesn't back down because they think being the bad guys are cool. (Sorry I'm trying to dumb this down. I could write an essay on my analysis of the types of VIs)

LVB was also town because he wouldn't be defeatist while under pressure as scum. He would rise and fight and try and win with reason instead of being reduced to a bumbling mess like what happened. language is independant and null.

In addition he was trying to be helpful in the beginning. I have played on enough different sites to understand that MS style and jargon is different dependant on where you started out. I play regularly on another site and am constantly in arguments which are basic misunderstandings that lead to people getting angry at each other.

If you actually take a close look at LVB's posts. (I don't know if this applies to all his posts seeing as i skimmed all but two after seeing this) but he actually puts forward information he thinks is relevent. He did have a fair bit of IIoA but that is an expected thing by people who are new to MS and is actually a town tell in my eyes and not a scum one. I legitimately read him as town, if it is that hard to comprehend then whatever.

Unvote, Vote: xtoxm

Ignoring myself being hypocritical that was a very ordinary post to be bringing out at that point of time.

PEdit: Beat me to that post. Different ideas why it is a bad post but still relevant.

[GhostWriter]

And how did you know what kind of VI he would be?

[Espeonage]

That's just picking up on tone and attitudes. It really doesn't take long.

[GhostWriter]

Except that it can, and was, read as scummy, as opposed to townish. Talking in hindsight in a way that makes you look like you had an in-depth read is easy. Yeah, you tried to say something yesterday, but it wasn't nearly this in-depth and now it just looks like you're trying too hard after the fact.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Unvote, Vote: Tragedy

Suspect List: Tragedy > The Master Hand (Re-reading ISO to see whenever or not I do have a good case on him or not) > danakillsu == Lucersia > RedCoyote > Ythan.

Pinky and the Brain's play today has been generally good, so they're not that scummy to me anymore, although I will still keep an eye on them.

Spoiler: Why I switched my vote to Tragedy...

Look at her posts since her last post here...

Over forty-eight hours ago, Tragedy made her latest post on this thread. Since then, she has made over 90 posts on Mafiascum, games and outside of games included. After the heat that she got for her scummy round of posting on Friday, it is clear that she is avoiding this thread to divert attention away from her, which I find to be very scummy. The fact that she has posted so much in the past forty-eight hours and yet deliberately avoided the thread shows no form of pro-town motivation whatsoever.

If this doesn't convince you into switching, read Pinky and the Brain's ISO on her. This ISO was enough for me to switch my vote to her, it truly is that scummy. Not one post is not either a RVS post or one that is more likely to come from scum, and many of them are definitely scum motivated. At least with The Master Hand, my suspicion is primarily due to how they interacted with the Lelouch lynch wagon. Tragedy, on the other hand, is scummy independent of Lelouch behavior and there are no signs indicating that she will be of help to the town in the future.

Spoiler: Other Stuffs

Need to look over my case on The Master Hand. Last post could be seen from a town perspective and I'm getting second thoughts on my scum read on them, at least with gut. I'll read tjere ISO more carefully tomorrow to see whenever or not they're really as scummy as I'm making it out to be.

I agree that Xtoxm needs to explain his vote. As much as I like seeing support for The Master Hand's lynch today or in the future, I also do not have good feelings about him just sheeping me.

I am in complete favor of esuriospiritus's voting bloc plan. Yesterday was a complete nuthouse and divided the town into two sections. If town expects to win this game, we must unite as one group and not take on the task to defeat scum as two different division of townies.

As for her suspicion, I agree with Ythan, danakillsu, and especially Tragedy, same can be said for Xtoxm if he plays scummy today. GhostWriter I have a town read on, so I'm not in favor of lynch today.

Spoiler: Responding to posts

@RedCoyote: 1. There's a difference between your logic on why you choose to go after people who did not vote Lelouch and danakillsu's logic on the same issue. You said that your main focus would be on the people who did not note Lelouch. I disagree with this approach, but as long as you're providing evidence that would point toward the person being scum and as long as it's genuine scum hunting to boot, I don't really see it as scummy. danakillsu go further with this approach, saying that the people who didn't vote for Lelouch are either people who thought that Lelouch was a troll and for it to override his scumminess or are scums themselves. The problem I have with this is that danakillsu is artificially separating the entire non-Lelouch voters into these groups without really taking into consideration on the content of the defense of everyone, which I see scum doing.

3. Got mixed up while talking about the player count. I meant that most large games has more than 20, not 28.

Still not getting good vibe from that post, although it's more of a gut feeling since you clarify your reason for it.

@Espeonage: You said that you had a different reason for why you suspect Xtoxm. I agree it's a bad post, as stated above by me and others, but I'd like to hear your reason for why it's scummy. Considering that you voiced absolutely no suspicion on the slot before, I'm not going to let you slide on this.

[Ythan]

The traditional solution is to let them be dealt with by scum/SK/Vig shots because it makes no sense wasting energy in the debate between lynching them or not.

Why did you say scum and sk in addition to vig?

[Ythan]

You should read Reckamonic's OoT Mafia some time.

Don't.

[Ythan]

Dekes, you're using Espeon's lack of reasoning for her town read on Lulu to support your vote. Why exactly did you have a town read on Lulu, again?

[danakillsu]

@danakillsu: Just like you argue that scum may have stayed off the wagon for town cred, I can also argue that scum may have jumped on the wagon because VI's are easy to lynch. VI's are the easiest players to lynch, they are consistently scummy, almost always get wagoned and are frequently lynched early. Scum use this to their advantage because they can ride the lynch without gaining much scrutiny, which then cause the game to lose information because VI's players are difficult to read. As terrible as Lelouch's play was, even to the point of scum claiming after being forced replaced, he was literally what scum wanted, an incredibly easy lynch on a person that would create chaos and end up costing a day of valuable information. The fact that Lelouch was such an easy lynch is why I called on the bandwagon on the first place and why I think most of the scums were on the bandwagon, not off it.

I'd like for you to mention your other suspects and a brief description of why they are scum.

This argument over scumtells is getting stale. Obviously everything is WIFOM a little bit, but I believe that my argument makes far more sense than the one you hypothetically laid out here.

This is something I'm not going to do at this stage in the game. I have seen this pattern before. Someone asks me specifically out of a crowd of people who have not done the same to make a list of scumreads with reasons, then jumps all over it because they can make it look scummy and they want to. This inevitably ends in my lynch and my scumreads are never used by the town. Not gonna happen. I've given you the reasons I'm voting Espeonage, and it should be enough.

[Ythan]

I've been pretty clear about the reads I've given so far.

I don't think this was the least bit true when you said it. You didn't do a thing to explain why you disregarded Lulu, for example. Still looking for that town slip or whatever, and while I wouldn't say you

need

it it would certainly do you a lot of good at this point.

[Dekes]

Oh hell yeah, totally dig the voting bloc of awesome. RC can join. And Crazypianist, too. TMH and soras have yet to post something substantial on D2 (technically, crazy, too, but I remember having a strong town read on him D1 already). PatB needs ISOing. Like his vote on Tragedy although his PbPA outlines more the fact how useless Tragedy is. A concise case with a bit of opinion would do better.

, it doesn't mean that she is most certainly town.

Seriously? My girlie avatar is long gone. I mean, come on, how do you associate the name Dekes and a Bender avatar with a woman? And don't worry, I'm most certainly town.

SSBF replaced DTM, so he definitely doesn't get a pass yet. But his latest posts looked like legit scumhunting, whether he's town or hunting another scum team doesn't matter, he's welcome to vote along with us. So is everyone else, btw.

Once again:

Why am I scum defending a townie, rather than town defending someone who I genuinely thought was town?

Stop being useless. This is your lone D2 post.

#463, #464 and #466 are so funny and so sad at the same time. Story of this game so far.

Ythan, is this your plan on catching up? If so, consider me underwhelmed. Town read on Lelouch early: intent in his first posts looked honest; I said I was clear about my reads not about the reasoning behind these reads - that's all you get. And now do something productive or face a wagon coming your way. You replaced CSL, right? Not a spot I envy.

So, for the voting bloc to work I break my promise and leave my Espeo vote. What do you guys say? Tragedy wagon ho? Ythan wagon ho? Lucresia wagon ho?

Unvote; Vote: Ythan

Espeo, does that mean you changed your read on tunneling scum esurio?

And I swear, if Darla doesn't eat bullets tonight or gets replaced before, I'll rage.

@mod:
Question still stands. Do we get nameflips or not? Was TheJakalope Dampe?

Also, can you prod crazypianist and thil, please? Thanks.

[lewarcher82]

@Espeonage: thanks for your last post full of nothing. The tl;dr of it is: your experience gave you tools (that I evidently don't have) to distinguish a scum VI from a town VI. The big towntell about lelouch is that he was defending himself? Could you please give me the exact reference to the posts in which Lelouch was so evidently trying to help town?
And let me ask you another question: esurio pointed out a possible scumslip of Lelouch. After her post, people commented on it. Some believed she was right, some were unsure, and so on... you posted a couple of times after the apparent slip was pointed out by esurio. In your posts, you never mentioned it. Why?

What I think is that you knew it couldn't be a scumslip, because you are scum, but you couldn't explain why, because you could not make up anything and risk to be contraddicted by lelouch himself, and naturally you could not tell the *real* reason why you knew it wasn't a scumslip. So you had to keep posting your contentless defense of the scummy VI, ignoring the one point that you were unable to comment.

If you have any other explanation, by all means, try to convince me.

[Tragedy]

I thought I explained. LVB was town because that was the type of VI he is. some VI's are just dim, some are trolls and some are idiots. I'm not going to go into my classes of VIs.

Basically the type of VI LVB was is the kind that trys while scum and doesn't back down because they think being the bad guys are cool. (Sorry I'm trying to dumb this down. I could write an essay on my analysis of the types of VIs)

LVB was also town because he wouldn't be defeatist while under pressure as scum. He would rise and fight and try and win with reason instead of being reduced to a bumbling mess like what happened.

language is independant and null.

I'm pretty sure LVB tried to win a fight with "Reason" and "Argumentative" in the case of... Yeah...
Why just say all that now instead of

earlier

, when you could have at least

saved

his ass although he's a Town VI?

[Pinky and the Brain]

Oh, look, Tragedy's ignoring me now. How adorable. <3


Okay, compiling the ISO analysis of Tragedy into a case:

Her erratic voting/Inconsistent stance on lurking

Okay, so she makes a RVS vote (which incidentally is the first post of the game, so it couldn't actually be for lurking, and she later implies it was due to Simpsons Mafia)... And then keeps it for

17 posts

, with no paticular reason provided at the time (however she has recently qualified/implied it was for lurking).

However, she then says mb53's scumminess has been proven (for a totally incorrect reason) - keeping her RVS vote on Darla. lolwut?

When she does unvote... it's to vote another lurker. Useless vote, changing her vote for a useless reason, presumably to fake scum-hunting. She criticises him for his number of posts - guess who has less? Uh-huh, Darla, whom she unvoted to pursue Thil. Riiight. She even acknowledges Darla has less posts, advocating a Policy Lynch yet keeping her vote on Thil. Ooookay.

Then, Darla shows up - Tragedy responds with a greeting. No "WHERE YOU BEEN, DARLA?" Just "Hey!" She then reassures Ythan over his activity. Huh. She then implies she is aware of Darla's continuing failing activity today, but decides it's no longer voteworthy.

Lack of a vote on Lelouch/Distancing from the wagon

So, yeah. She says nothing at all about the whole Lelouch shenanigans. She makes an obviously prompted and horribly feigned post on him here, and makes a post here strongly implying she finds Lelouch terribly scummy yet decides to keep her vote on Thil. She then calls TheJackalope (Lelouch's replacement) scummy, but yet again keeps her vote on Lelouch.

She makes literally NO MENTION of the building wagon on Lelouch, nor of the digging done by esurio.

Fail-Defences/Dodging/Ignore

Self-explanatory, this. Deflection from here. Dodge. Ignoring Dekes. Dodging my points. Dodging this. Dodging this. Still dodging. Is this a defence?


~ Hopp

[Ythan]

Ythan, is this your plan on catching up? If so, consider me underwhelmed. Town read on Lelouch early: intent in his first posts looked honest; I said I was clear about my reads not about the reasoning behind these reads - that's all you get. And now do something productive or face a wagon coming your way. You replaced CSL, right? Not a spot I envy.

Noting your lack of substantive response in favor of a lot of vitriolic fluff here.

[Ythan]

Specifically, you didn't have a better reason for your town read. If it is honest and you are town then surely you must recognize the validity of pointlessly clearing suspicious players. And yet your record doesn't fit with that.

[Dekes]

In case you missed it. I don't have to get into your good graces, it's the other way around. I give out gut town reads when I see town intent as I please, thank you very much.

That's still neither hunting scum nor sharing opinions. You're wasting your time going after me. I get it, you're trying to gain town cred for going after the unconventional target and questioning the obvtownies.

But some suspects would be more helpful.


Thread needs more "posting everywhere but here"-presence from mb. He didn't scream town to me when he was more active either.

[Ythan]

@TheJakalope: Why are you completely blaming your newfound scumminess onto your previous slot? You know if you're going to make a case on him, you should do that in a game WITH him, not after replacing him. Nuh uh.

"he just wants to screw over the town that wasn't agreeing with him."

I haven't agreed anything to him, does it look like he wants to screw me over? Doesn't look like a good plan of intent.

These concerns don't seem realistic when you consider that Lulu was showing a giant bitchfit. Same goes for all other arguments by any player over what he would or would not do as this or that alignment.

[Tragedy]

SSBF...
Small Question: If I was town, who would you rank most likely scum in this case, off the wagon?

[Ythan]

In case you missed it. I don't have to get into your good graces, it's the other way around. I give out gut town reads when I see town intent as I please, thank you very much.

And yet when someone else does it..are you reading or what? As for the good graces comment, quit deflecting simple points. You're just as much as suspect as anyone else in this game no matter how much you try to muddy the water on that account.

That's still neither hunting scum nor sharing opinions. You're wasting your time going after me. I get it, you're trying to gain town cred for going after the unconventional target and questioning the obvtownies.

Are you kidding. How can you make ridiculous posts like this and still consider yourself an unlikely target.

Quit bitching about the fact that questioning you occurs before questioning other players. You're right by the top of the list. If you would take a moment to post like a thoughtful townie instead of just whining about it I wouldn't be talking to you anymore.

[Ythan]

SSBF...
Small Question:

If I was town

, who would you rank most likely scum in this case, off the wagon?

[jmj3000]

Official Vote Count

Players needed to lynch: 10

Espeonage

- 2 - danakillsu, lewarcher82 (L-8)

The Master Hand

- 1 - xtoxm (L-9)

Ythan

- 2 - esuriospiritus, Dekes (L-8)

Tragedy

- 2 - Pinky and the Brain, SSBF (L-8)

mb53

- 1 - RedCoyote (L-9)

danakillsu

- 1 - GhostWriter (L-9)

xtoxm

- 1 - Espeonage (L-9)


Players not voting: EVERYONE ELSE


If there are any errors, let me know and I will fix them.

Deadline is May 5 at 10:30 AM EDT.

@Dekes: Clarify your question please. I went back and edited jakalope’s flip to include his role’s name.