League of Legends (Old)

[Cyberbob]

Lastly, I finally finally finally found an interface modding site and I can move my minimap from the lower right-hand corner to the left.

omg

[Mastermind of Sin]

Secondly, I don't understand your comments about LoL being counter-intuitive for a DotA/HoN player. I played DotA for about 3-4 years before LoL came out of beta, and making the switch over to LoL was like riding a bike. Both games were created by the same people, and the strong similarities made it easy to go in and pick up on the differences as well without feeling lost.

I said the shop was counter-intuitive at first. Now I can navigate through it. I don't find it totally practical but it's not that troubling anymore. I don't know if you did play under Eul or Guinsoo era's but DotA 6.xx has nothing to do with the former versions. IceFrog made some radical choice and the game was more balanced in the end.

I started playing under the Guinsoo/Pendragon eras, but as I said, I played DotA up until LoL was released, which was well into the IceFrog era as well. The majority of my DotA playing came during 5.84b and the subsequent early 6.0X versions.

[Otolia]

DoTA had some serious champ balance issues and was just a different game altogether. Most maps were

much bigger

and a carry really was true emphasis in team comp. Because of the way gold worked, you had to build around and play to shield your gun. Active items meant engagements had to be well-planned and were super CD sensitive, making cycles of retreat more important.

The dominating meta-game in DotA was created by the players (particularly through the dreaded SEA/Chinese scene) whereas so far the echoes I had only reported that the dominating meta-game was due to inbuilt balance (tanky DPS or Mass AoE) Anyhow DotA heroes were not balanced in order to see them all in the competitive scene and I consider this to be a mistake. This is why I keep praising HoN because they tried (with various success) to balance every hero so that this hero can fit in the comp scene but we still see those annoying long-range trilane heir to ricing tactics of asian DotA ><.

What has LoL taken out of the game that was in the original game that affected the competitive atmosphere? Seriously, I'm curious.

Deny (controversial), Stash, Huge loss of gold upon death, true initiators, courier, runes (and thus bottle), hard carry, active items. That's quite a turn from a game considered a reference in the genre. Does that make the game a bad one, hell no ! But diversity was lost nonetheless in profit of more diverse heroes abilities and build (not item build but dev build)

[bv310]

There are quite a few active items, but most of the more powerful item abilities are summoner spells.

[Otolia]

There are quite a few active items, but most of the more powerful item abilities are summoner spells.

In a way, it's a good thing for newbies because managing up to 8 activable abilities can be really challenging. So it's lessening the gap between very good players and others which is a strength to develop a homogeneous player base.

@AGar : Since you played a lot of SC:BW, I'll recommend you the stream of Testie here. He mostly play HoN nowadays but sometimes he happens to play SC2 too. Nowadays he is probably the most watched pro-player in HoN.

[Untrod Tripod]

Why exactly do you consider it a mark of good design to have abilities split between items and summoner spells?

Why exactly is the store confusing? There's one store and items are sorted according to what they do for you.

LoL streamlined DotA and made it more easily navigable. Last time I checked, having to click fewer times was a good thing.

[Chronopie]

The advantages of summoner spells over more item actives is that anyone/everyone has access to them, whether or not they've had a good game, and they don't need to use item slots to do so. Such as Ghost. 210 second cooldown, so it's not a gamebreaker, but it helps secure the kill/let you escape. teleport: 300 second cd, lets you get back to lane quickly, like a tele-scroll in DotA, but You don't need to buy it repeatedly. (And there are tele-boots in DotA, but those are rarely used). ignite: healing spells/abilities/regen is more prevalent, and this gives everyone, (that chooses it), an occasional counter from when you need to engage.

And LoL still has some item actives, they just don't play as much of a role, as they're more perks rather than "needed or I lose" mentality that makes 1/3 of DotA's items useless (less useful than X alternative in 99% of situations), See Quicksilver Sash [QSS] (activate to Cleanse of all debuffs every 105 seconds), Deathfire Grasp [DFG] that does damage based on % of enemies health. (30% + 3.5% per 100 AP). Executioner's Calling (Healing Debuff)

--

And I agree that the LoL store is easier. "I need Physical damage" -> follow the menus. "I need more Health" -> Menu for that too.

As opposed to DotA's 5 (6?) Tiers Shops, and separate consumables shop.

[bv310]

I think I've finally found a perfect comparison to fit the LoL v HoN debate. It's a lot like the Mac v PC debate. One has a much bigger user base, and a lot more common errors, while the other is known for being much more reliable, although more difficult to use. Both sides like to make fun of the other, with the PC fanboys usually liking to rub in the variety of selection that they have for software, while the Mac fanboys usually like to use their higher cost and ability. PCs for the most part can be built for very cheap, and the parts are easy to upgrade if you want better stuff, while Macs are much more rigid in their structure, but offer more at the entry level price.

Ultimately both of them are going to do what you bought them for. They're both going to offer the same experience, with different User Interfaces, and each has areas where they excel over the other, but in the end they're both computers that are primarily going to be used to check Facebook, answer emails, and do all the other basic stuff computers do.

[Otolia]

The perfect comparison is Runescape vs WoW.

I know a lot of people who mainly play HoN but play LoL for fun because it's less stressful. There should be a patch tomorrow or friday in HoN for the anniversary. Accounts will probably be cheaper so I'll post links for people who might want to test it out.

[IH]

That is a terrible comparison.

[Otolia]

That is a terrible comparison.

The Windows vs Mac one ? tsk tsk

[IH]

well both of them to be fair.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Hey. Hey. Hey.
Idea.
Might seem a little crazy.
Maybe...

maaaaybe

... we could just play the game we like, and you can play the game you like, and nobody has to get mad or throw slightly insulting comparisons around.
Mad, I know.

[AGar]

Hey. Hey. Hey.
Idea.
Might seem a little crazy.
Maybe...

maaaaybe

... we could just play the game we like, and you can play the game you like, and nobody has to get mad or throw slightly insulting comparisons around.
Mad, I know.

You watch your mouth, there.

[Nuwen]

Farming is important in the land of min/maxing. If you're skipping farm to roam in a clusterfuck, you are wasting valuable resources available on the map. Likewise, if someone is freely farming (TBM in all of our practice games), you need to do everything you can to punish and shut him down. All objectives on the map are just means to unlocking more gold faster.

I watched JD's stream for the first time and am horrified at how often you guys deliberately avoid killing creep until it's necessary to D a tower or push a lane. So much potential gold dumped in the woodchipper.

Ganking into lanes actually puts a carry behind on farm - it's a high risk/reward situation because killed players compensate for missed creep, but a failed gank carries a high opportunity cost. I noticed phrases like "nuwen ganks a lot, just stay together" in chat tonight. This is incorrect. Nuwen ganks frequently because it's necessary to keep outer lanes caught up if they make mistakes.

You might not see it now in our practice games, but dying in lane phase is a HUGE setback to the team because it pushes back all of our offensive timings (and occupies your carry with cleanup instead of pure farming). One or two deaths per lane/phase should equal a dead tower or worse to competent players. First tower momentum is especially obvious in this game because of team gold mechanics. Aside from the gold disparity, the first tower death effectively ends lane phase because 2x are relieved of non-defensive duties: they can farm freely and safely vs. risky farm in their own lane, they can gank into other lanes, they can push other lanes.

The negative effects of early tower deaths are especially obvious when we have a solo top. A jungler is a double-edged weapon: you reap full XP and gold for the most possible people at once early, but at the cost of leaving a tower susceptible to heavy damage. Although timing depends on the relative strength of the solo char/matchup, inevitably the lane will fall unassisted.

Overall, I think most of the scumchat crew plays this game too passively or without clear intent at a given time. Aggression does not have to mean "harassing other dude with club." You can aggressively farm (EVERYWHERE on map), aggressively econ on dragon control, aggressively deny their team gold (zoning only in LoL).

Little mistakes add up in RTS games. Winners often make the fewest or least severe cumulative mistakes over the course of a match. Pick your fuckups wisely and make sure they're as cost-effective as possible.

[Nuwen]

Resource management -> the longer you're in lane, the more gold you will have. Time in the fountain is not time gathering gold.

If you blow your mana pool at level 2 or 3 in lane, stop. Figure out a way to increase your hero's staying power and ration your harass. Communicate with your lane partner so you're not uselessly resource dumping on split targets or a taric/mundo lane. Your lane mana and health determine how much gold you collect or miss. Don't spend your resource pools unwisely.

[Otolia]

Hey. Hey. Hey.
Idea.
Might seem a little crazy.
Maybe...

maaaaybe

... we could just play the game we like, and you can play the game you like, and nobody has to get mad or throw slightly insulting comparisons around.
Mad, I know.

Don't remove the fun.

[IH]

farm and last hit more.

This^^

[Knight of Cydonia]

Time dragon and the buffs on your side of the jungle. Time their buffs if you ever steal them. The moment they're up, get them, get back to lane.

[Otolia]

As I said earlier, HoNiversary is tomorrow and S2 is celebrating the birthday of its baby by making a the next 11 days free-to-play. So no more lame excuses not to try out and see the differences for yourself.

Aside from that, I will be tutoring newcomers by setting public games (no stats) for complete newbies and helping them through the first step. If you wanna see me, feel free to drop in the 'LNCIP Chat #2' or in any other LNCIP (1 to 10) channel if you don't wanna see my face.

PS : I'll post a link a soon as a official statement has been released.

[bv310]

Worth trying it out if it's free I suppose. Also, Oto, you're more than welcome to join us on LoL so we can show you a proper League experience instead of the sketchy pubs you're playing now. I'm bv310 in-game there.

[IH]

JIZZM

[Papa Zito]

omg I won my first game
Even better Nuwen didn't yell at me for being ultran00b

weeeeeeeeeeee

[TheButtonmen]

omg I won my first game
Even better Nuwen didn't yell at me for being ultran00b

weeeeeeeeeeee

She likes to wait until she feels you should know better, then she pounces.

As long as you don't move though she can't see you.

[Untrod Tripod]

don't worry Zito, if you keep playing it's going to happen. she only rages because she <3's you. like an overprotective momma bear.