A Gentleman's Game of Guile, Subterfuge, and Intrigue (Fin)

[jilynne1991]

What does it mean when you "bus" someone? Vezok...is getting on my nerves. His content and participation isn't exactly what I'd call up to par, but for the moment, I'm not ready to vote him just yet.

[lord_hur]

What does it mean when you "bus" someone? Vezok...is getting on my nerves. His content and participation isn't exactly what I'd call up to par, but for the moment, I'm not ready to vote him just yet.

"Bus" is short for "pushing under the bus" : scum voting for other scum, even lynching them, so they appear less suspicious themselves. It's a very good tactic if used well.

This is also opinion, not only advice : vezokpiraka is absolutely incapable of playing logically or helpfully, even when he's town. He's even (in)famous for not using a town power he had (that was really easy to use), leading his team to defeat. As much as I myself don't like his play, voting him is not better than voting at random, since he's equally unhelpful as town and scum. There is no point in voting VI for being VI. Frustrating, isn't it?

But as I said, this is only my opinion of him. Your own opinion is what matters here.

[lord_hur]

Oh, and another advice : you're taking an awful lot of games for a newbie. You should start with one or two, to be able to devote enough time to them. Playing a game

properly

is very time-consuming : the more games you take, the less helpful you are to your team in each.

[ToastyToast]

@lord_hur: although I completely agree that vezokpiraka is an infamous player, its important to remember that he has the exact same probability as anyone else at being scum. What do you think is the main difference between his VI play and his scum play?

[lord_hur]

@lord_hur: although I completely agree that vezokpiraka is an infamous player, its important to remember that he has the exact same probability as anyone else at being scum. What do you think is the main difference between his VI play and his scum play?

I don't think he does it on purpose, and scum tells (at least, the ones I use) assume that players behave rationally, which VIs do not appear to be. Thus, VIs are typically a black box for me. If there is a difference in play, I cannot see it (and I'm curious as to how anyone would).

[vezokpiraka]

This is the first game you play with me. That's why you don't know if I'm scum or not.

[Wraith]

Votecount 2.3

lord_hur

(3)

:

Sir Hoppster

, Aurorus Vox, PhD, ToastyToast,

imaginality

, vezokpiraka,

jilynne1991

Sir Hoppster

(0)

:

ToastyToast

,

lord_hur

,

vezokpiraka

vezokpiraka

(0)

:

inHimshallibe

imaginality

(1)

:

lord_hur

Reya Cookiebringer

(1)

:

inHimshallibe

Not Voting

(5)

:

Reya Cookiebringer, Feysal, imaginality, jilynne1991, Sir Hoppster

With 10 alive it takes

6

to lynch the knave.

Night falls on

June 7, 2011

[ToastyToast]

lord_hur, who do you think should be lynched tomorrow if you indeed flip town today?

You never answered this. I'm asking for motivation speculation. Who on your wagon comes off as the most opportunistic? I had another question but I totally forgot

@inhim: could you explain your vote on Reya in more depth? Is this entirely based on lurking?

@AV: Who do you think lord_hur is scum with? You were tunneling a bit.

@jillynne: Has your opinion of lord_hur changed from scum to town or from scum to null?

Other notes: I am noticing a large decrease in activity from AV and Hoppster (post length, general content)

[jilynne1991]

Lord_hur, thanks for your concern, but starting from now, I have 5 hours a day to do nothing, and starting from this friday, I have somewhere around 14-16 hours a day to do nothing, so I'll try a few more games at a time, just so I can learn quicker. (Oh, and so I don't get bored to death everyday.)

My opinion of Lord_hur has changed from scum to less scummy. I don't believe he's worth lynching just not, but he does seem to still be learning scum.

[Feysal]

Having just read the last couple pages, I notice we've become a newbie game. Not that I'm complaining, I find it rather refreshing. In the site I moved here from, there were typically one or two newbies in most games, and this game could certainly use some newbie enthusiasm.

There would not appear to have been any significant developments during the weekend, which is unsurprising given how many of our members are temporarily not available. Sirs Vox and imaginality have indicated they would be away, while the voice of our provider of cookies is almost unheard is mostly unheard. Only now it clicked what Sir Vox meant when he demanded cookies earlier this week, and a player whose full name escapes my memory is truly a player too much absent. This being Memorial Day weekend in the United States may have contributed to the activity of others, slowing the game down.

The only action that interested me was vezokpiraka asking for a hammer. He is apparently concerned about the game stalling, but this may be an illusion due to players being away and the special weekend (or so I hope). Since we have a week to go until deadline, we are not so rushed we should consider hammering Lord Hur yet, provided people continue to consider him suspect, which I don't. His recent behavior seems townish to me.

I did take a closer look at ToastyToast in isolation, and the result of that was a fairly neutral read. Any suspicion I have left for his slot is due to his predecessor, and I have previously seen a replacement player take an extremely suspicious slot and turn that read upside down. I could let ToastyToast and other replacements live for now and watch how their play develops, provided of course that they are active and we can find a suspect I can put my vote behind in good conscience. I will be looking at the members whose contributions have been lowest, it is there that my reads are weakest.

Other notes: I am noticing a large decrease in activity from AV and Hoppster (post length, general content).

AV gave a V/LA notice, so that would explain him. As for Hoppster, I have noticed him posting less this day phase, which is not all that surprising after the case of Twistedspoon.

[jilynne1991]

Feysal, may I ask your first impression of me? Also, what could I do better? (Actually could as many people as possible answer this question? Thank you.)

[lord_hur]

lord_hur, who do you think should be lynched tomorrow if you indeed flip town today?

You never answered this. I'm asking for motivation speculation. Who on your wagon comes off as the most opportunistic? I had another question but I totally forgot

Sorry. The one vote I like the *least* is AurorusVox's. I don't like gut votes, as there is no way to determine is they are genuine or not, so they are utterly anti-town. And on top of that, he brought it up well after his vote. So basically, i can picture it being : "oh well, I have no reason to vote for this guy except that he's being attacked by everyone, so I'll just latch at him with walls of doom until he gives in. Damn, he's resisting, I need to find something else. Hmm, he brought up my history of town voting... *browses* yeah I remember, I let that guy off the hook because my reasoning sucked, but I was right at first! Hey, I can use gut voting as an excuse, it makes total sense given my history, and you can't unprove it anyway!".

Town (at least, as I play as town) would have thought they have not enough against me, and, at least, looked for an alternative wagon. Only scum would stick to a very promising wagon with teeth and claws, changing completely their voting reason on the way (especially for something as despisable as gut voting), and tunnelling as if there was no other player.

By the way, your own vote is the only one I found any value in (because overdefensiveness is a known scumtell). Given my meta as town, which shows my tendancy to latch very hard (admittedly, maybe too hard) at people voting me for reasons I find unreasonable, do you think it is still a good reason to vote me? If it is, can you explain me precisely what scum intent I would have?

Also, why did you feel the need to ask about my claim, when no one else was expressing any intent in voting me?

Other notes: I am noticing a large decrease in activity from AV and Hoppster (post length, general content)

AurorusVox called it. I am myself more concerned about inHimshallibe and Reya Cookiebringer.

[ToastyToast]

1) I have no knowledge of meta and feel that it is an inadequate argument to lie on it solely. Scum who knows their town meta are going to try to make it identical. I similarly have a habit of getting into a "survival" mentality when town, but its not enough to base a town read on me.

2) I feel you ARE being more active, and I like that, but your vote on imaginality came at a weird time, especially if you have strong suspicions on AV. Your scumhunting isn't strong enough,and if the part of your defense sayin "hey, im town because AV sucks at scumhuntin" was a bad move. I also see a few attempts at buddying. For example, as nice as helping jilynne is, we can ultimately agree that she needs to play through a game to get a true picture of improvement. In other words, the whole teaching thing easily manipulated her into changing her vote.

I guess the bottomline is that despite your meta (which I am unaware if its indeed true), your predecessors activity, the overdefensiveness, light buddying, and case formation all outweigh your pro-town activites (being active)

3) I felt that the game was stagnating, so a claim might provide a time to look for reactions. Also, I always claim at L-1 in case some idiot decides to hammer.

[jilynne1991]

*facepalm* I feel like an absolute idiot...I was wondering if I was being manipulated, but then I decided he was too helpful to be scum. Also Lord_hur's last post just made me start thinking that's he's leaning town, and now...I have no clue.

Ok, right now I'm going to go with that Lord_hur's leaning scum, but not enough for me to vote him.

Also, I feel like I need to be thinking about more stuff, can someone start asking questions just to get my brain back up and running? Since, right now, my thoughts are at a standstill and it's infuriating me.

[lord_hur]

@Feysal: You seem to be quite uncommitting in this game. Only one vote so far... Who are you suspecting, and why?

[jilynne1991]

Just out of curiosity, do you guys really live in different countries like France and Finland and places in Europe?

[lord_hur]

1) I have no knowledge of meta and feel that it is an inadequate argument to lie on it solely. Scum who knows their town meta are going to try to make it identical. I similarly have a habit of getting into a "survival" mentality when town, but its not enough to base a town read on me.

You left out the most important question : what would be my scummy intent?

2) I feel you ARE being more active, and I like that, but your vote on imaginality came at a weird time, especially if you have strong suspicions on AV. Your scumhunting isn't strong enough,and if the part of your defense sayin "hey, im town because AV sucks at scumhuntin" was a bad move. I also see a few attempts at buddying. For example, as nice as helping jilynne is, we can ultimately agree that she needs to play through a game to get a true picture of improvement. In other words, the whole teaching thing easily manipulated her into changing her vote.

I guess the bottomline is that despite your meta (which I am unaware if its indeed true), your predecessors activity, the overdefensiveness, light buddying, and case formation all outweigh your pro-town activites (being active)

- My scumhunting isn't strong enough? God, I feel like I'm doing the only scumhunting that is not completely focused on me! No one but me even tries to find an alternate wagon!
- I'm FUCKING furious to see my efforts at helping newbies called out at attempts to get any advantage. This would be utterly dishonorable. Newbies have to learn, and if your frame of mind was mainstream, no one would help them at all. Shame on you for doing this. That reminds me of that one time when I contemplated farside22 gaining extra info from normal use of her limited mod powers. I immediately and deeply apologized to her, even before she confronted me about it. I suggest you do the same. Insulting someone in this manner is very grave to me.
- I didn't hide my suspicion of both, and imaginality is up there as well, and slightly ahead. Can't see what's strange about this.
- I never said I'm town because he's bad at scumhunting. More importantly, trying to look good is a scummy frame of mind, so why would you vote me for not doing it? This is the second time you do this, and I'm beginning to think that you might be yourself in this frame of mind. You know, attempting to look good.

3) I felt that the game was stagnating, so a claim might provide a time to look for reactions. Also, I always claim at L-1 in case some idiot decides to hammer.

Can you tell me in which games you did this?

[lord_hur]

*facepalm* I feel like an absolute idiot...I was wondering if I was being manipulated, but then I decided he was too helpful to be scum. Also Lord_hur's last post just made me start thinking that's he's leaning town, and now...I have no clue.

This is the first thing I told you when you said you trusted me:

Oh, ty! I'll unvote you now, because I don't want someone to hammer or something, and you seem too helpful to be scum. I don't think scum would want to be helpful to the town.

You should not rely on this. I could (still can, from your point of view) have been scum trying to buddy up with you. But you know you can trust my advices, as if you meta me (especially the newbie games where I acted as tutor), you will find that I never, ever given any advices for any other reason than helping.

You should ignore my advices for determining my alignment. It is just not relevant.

No one with any amount of honor would manipulate a newbie with advices. It is the first and most important rule for tutors (called IC) in newbie games.

[ToastyToast]

@lord_hur: I'll respond to the other stuff later. I meant no offense. I mean, I helped her a bit too. I'm just saying that teaching someone during a game is basically what got her to change her read.

[lord_hur]

@lord_hur: I'll respond to the other stuff later. I meant no offense. I mean, I helped her a bit too. I'm just saying that teaching someone during a game is basically what got her to change her read.

And I *immediately* told her that she should not do it.

[jilynne1991]

I'm not blaming anyone, I was foolish and stupid, I get it.

[lord_hur]

I'm not blaming anyone, I was foolish and stupid, I get it.

No. You made a mistake all newbies make. There is a huge difference. If you don't do again, you're not foolish and stupid.

[vezokpiraka]

Just out of curiosity, do you guys really live in different countries like France and Finland and places in Europe?

Yes. I live in Romania.

Anyway. I don't see Lord-hur coming as town. I still think he is scum and I am going to pursue this wagon. Or Hoppster's.

[lord_hur]

Just out of curiosity, do you guys really live in different countries like France and Finland and places in Europe?

I missed this. Yes, I'm french living in France, and Feysal is living in Finland (I read it in his meta).

[Hoppster]

I still think you're scummy.

For what reason(s)?

'Sup, vezok.

Other notes: I am noticing a large decrease in activity from AV and Hoppster (post length, general content)

What does that mean (in terms of your read on us) as a consequence?

I'm FUCKING furious to see my efforts at helping newbies called out at attempts to get any advantage. This would be utterly dishonorable. Newbies have to learn, and if your frame of mind was mainstream, no one would help them at all. Shame on you for doing this. That reminds me of that one time when I contemplated farside22 gaining extra info from normal use of her limited mod powers. I immediately and deeply apologized to her, even before she confronted me about it. I suggest you do the same. Insulting someone in this manner is very grave to me.

As much as I agree with what you're saying, the tone of this post is reading to me as scum who feels he has been caught out for a completely wrong reason.