Mini 1180: Game Over

[WormyKrew]

I don't see it, but maybe I'm just not looking hard enough. Could you point it out please?
~Krew

[DarthYoshi]

Not liking RVS is obvscum. Lynchlynchlynch

Especially for new players, this is NOT always true.

I want to see this. "I don't feel like typing it up again" isn't an excuse when we were past pregame and people were already posting in pregame anyway, plus you could've just drafted it until someone made you aware that the game started. Methinks it didn't exist.

+1

I don't like how Jilynne says she has a post on Ironhead but it's literally just a thing about the stance on RQS/RVS. And the amount of times she's played the noobcard is insane.

I agree on the first part, but I think newbs playing the newb card is more a newb tell than anything else. Can you explain why it is suspicious?

@Jily--how much mafia experience do you have, and can you provide links if possible to some completed games you've played?

So, I'm thinking Iron/jil team? I personally want to see Iron go first.

First, why are you hunting in terms of scumpairs/teams before there have been any flips yet? This looks like scum trying to appear helpful. Second, why does Iron need to go first if you're putting all this attention on Jily instead?

I don't like these kinds of inconsistencies so early in the game.

FoS: WormyKrew.

It seems odd that Jily couldn't be bothered to write out 5 sentences.
Somewhat serious VOTE: Jilynne1991

How serious a vote is this? Why did you feel the need to point out that it might not be entirely serious? And, why are you just sheeping what TWIE et al's reason is?

This be a scum voting, everyone.

Vote: Weirdalex.

There's two more appeals that get ignored, though. Appeal to Logic and Appeal to Authority.

Let's call it AtL and lynch this scum.

I get appeal to authority, but how is appeal to logic a scumtell?

Anyways, current suspect list:
Weirdalex
WormyKrew
Jily (lower on the list due to noobishness.)

[WormyKrew]

The obvscum thing was a joke...
I don't like the way jil is defending iron and copying his logic. I thought maybe jil was just a confused newb, but ear convinced me that jil is the better suspect (hence where our vote is now).

[WormyKrew]

^~Krew

[Secret Project]

Wow... chainsaw defense like hell. You bussing, krew?

Notice in the first post the smileys, the layman's use of terms like "solid" and "or something." The lack of a single word that anybody here wouldn't know.

/confirm

@GM: I like your first couple of rules But I suggest that if rule #1 is you do not talk about Mafia, then rule #2 ought to be you DO NOT talk about Mafia! Then rule #3 can be no land wars in Asia

Also, some RQS questions (mostly for my own personal benefit to reference if need be):

What time zone are you in?

How much experience do you have playing mafia (either on or off-site)?

About how active are you usually in a game?

RVS or RQS? Why?

I'm usually on Pacific Daylight Time (GMT-8 +1)

I have about ten games completed @MS. Alduskkel actually modded my first newbie game here. Hopefully I've improved since then....

I'm pretty active. I'll do my best to post every day.

I think both RVS and RQS have their uses, hence why I am using both.

1. Mountain time zone
2. Have been playing at various sites or in person since college; so a little over ten years
3. I am pretty active (2-3 posts per day) when my wife lets me if I seem a bit inactive, it is probably because she has me mowing the lawn or something
4. I prefer RQS. It is too easy for scum to fly under the radar in RVS, because of course their votes are not random.

VOTE: WIERDALEXV for instantly linking RVS to the concept of bandwagoning. Why must RVS result in bandwagons? Couldn't it proceed with an approximately equal distribution of votes among several candidates?

By the way, I hate unjustified bandwagons -- another way for scum to fly under the radar.

Same for this post. Unless some people don't know what "indicting" means.

@Secret Project & SleepyKrew: I thought I made the connection pretty solid between what wierdalex said and what the implication is. Are you indicting the connection? If so, where exactly did I fail to connect the argument to the conclusion?

RQS. I think asking questions work just as well. For one, picking on one person espeically and see how they handle the pressure, then switch around and things like that.

I agree with this line of thought. I think RQS generates more useful discussion than RVS -- besides, not everyone gets pressured during RVS.

Now look at this. Aggressive and he tries to put himself in a position above you. I've noticed that confidence is one of the best ways to seem town. This is bad acting. An attempt to sound like he knows exactly what he's talking about. And for everyone besides krew, take a look at the end of it. Attacks krew's post for 4 lines and then says "oh but you're not scummy for anything here." He's scared to bus his scum buddy back, and possibly not sure how to react to being bussed.

So, I'm thinking Iron/jil team? I personally want to see Iron go first.

You sure don't think too much of me, do you? I have asked you to explain your failure to follow my logic (please review post #68) and you have not only ignored it, but you continue to obfuscate. You are not acting in the best interests of the town. If you wish to exercise the town's power to lynch, it is incumbent upon you to demonstrate a strong reason. Saying "I personally want to see Iron go first" is not a compelling reason.

I am a stickler for unimpeachable logic (as splitfarvle can attest, as we just finished a game together). If you are going to sling faulty logic through this game, I will identify it as garbage for you. Poor logic in itself is not a definitive scum-tell, but it is not pro-town.

And finally, here he continues his "I have a degree" mode with another wannabe elite post. You'd think the guy is a hydra with how different he talks in consecutive posts

@Ironhead: What's so bad about it? You get a few good reads, and it generates enough discussion to get the game going.

I concede that it does get the game going; and you could get a few good reads. But this is a problem -- you only get

a few

good reads. RVS is not random for the scum (and not terribly random for the town, if players are choosing who to vote based on who does or does not have an impending bandwagon on them). Because the scum know who their partners are, they can steer the momentum of RVS away from their partners and toward townies. They can thus avoid having to answer to the pressure of a D-1 bandwagon; or, they can ensure that they or their partner endures an early D-1 bandwagon, just so they can point to that for town-credibility, but then re-direct the bandwagon momentum onto someone else. The point is, the uninformed town can be manipulated by the scum without even knowing they are being manipulated; and even those being bandwagoned early on can know that it is only RVS and that they should not worry too much. The reads you end up getting may not be good, and they almost certainly will be limited to the few who actively participated in RVS (by either enduring a bandwagon or taking a stand on someone else's bandwagon).

I prefer RQS because the underlying assumption is that everyone has to answer the questions. Everyone participates and gets their responses and opinions out in the open, and no one can avoid having to take an early stand on some semi-relevant question.

RVS and RQS are not mutually exclusive, and most games with an RQS element will also have some degree of RVS. And early votes in RQS are fine, as long as there is a modicum of justification beyond simple bandwagoning. The questioning in RQS is supposed to provide that modicum of justification. This is why RVS is bad vis-a-vis RQS, in my opinion.

Scum: Ironhead
Weirdalex
krew (Jil as alternate if it's not krew)

Cool, good game.

[SleepyKrew]

What is a chainsaw defense?

[Secret Project]

Anyways, current suspect list:
Weirdalex
WormyKrew
Jily (lower on the list due to noobishness.)

Speaking of which, this guy knows what he's talking about.

Chainsaw defense is attacking your buddy's attacker.

[Secret Project]

I get appeal to authority, but how is appeal to logic a scumtell?

In the same way any appeal is. This game is nothing without appeals. It's about context. Why did Ironhead NEED to appeal? Not for the sake of a town argument, that's for sure.

[Substrike22]

Current Votecount:
6/1/11 4:58 pm
D 1.3

wierdalexv 2 Gerhard Krause, Darth Yoshi
splitfarvie 0
Elsa von Spielburg 0
Gerhard Krause 0

jilynne1991 3 (L-4) TheWayItEnds, Wiredalexv, WormyKrew

TheWayItEnds 0
DarthYoshi 2 Alduskkel, Monk
monk 1 Elsa Von Spielburg
Secret Project 0
Ironhead 1 Secret Project
Alduskkel 0
flinter 0
WormyKrew 0


With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch!

Not Voting: splitfarvie, jilynne1991, Alduskkel, flinter

Apologies for the issue with Jil's vote, I fixed the VC and also her quote tags on that post. Feel free to PM me if there are any future issues, and/or post it in thread, just make sure you bold what you're saying or I might not read it.

Deadline is at 12:09pm PST, on June 21st.

[splitfarvle]

I'll confirm that Ironhead's play has so far been consistent with how he played in the game we were in. He changes the tone of his posts and pushes logic heavily so this is a nulltell for me.

So, I'm thinking Iron/jil team? I personally want to see Iron go first.

First, why are you hunting in terms of scumpairs/teams before there have been any flips yet? This looks like scum trying to appear helpful. Second, why does Iron need to go first if you're putting all this attention on Jily instead?

I don't like these kinds of inconsistencies so early in the game.

FoS: WormyKrew.

This is a good point. It also seems like hydra is an easy defense against inconsistencies, so I'll need more of an explanation than that.

VOTE: WormyKrew

[jilynne1991]

I have a plan. Please don't kill me yet. I'm not scum. Now that that's said and done, I know I can't change your vote. I'm sorry, I was defending iron, because I thought he was CORRECT.

[WormyKrew]

First off, sorry for posting on the wrong account in 105.
I assure you, we won't use two heads as an excuse for inconsistencies. We discuss things thoroughly in our QT. This is why our vote remains on jil. Am I missing anything?
jil, that is absolutely ridiculous what you said. It screams desperate newbscum.
As you will note, I've been making the majority of the posts. That's because I'm better at generating discussion, and ear is better at picking up on little things that I missed. So expect me to address broad subjects and ear to nitpick. However, we will discuss it over QT, and there will be no contradictions.

[WormyKrew]

~Krew
Gotta get used to this, sorry.

[jilynne1991]

What's a QT? Ok, but can you guys wait to lynch me?

Well, actually, I just want to know, can I still consider I won, even if I got killed in the process of my group winning? Since, I'll just say I'm town, and I'm not really sure how to save myself, so if you guys want to lynch me go ahead, since this game isn't really interesting me that much. (Well, not like the other 5 games I'm in.)

It will be a waste if I get lynched on the first day. I do ask you guys to not lynch me on the first day, and if you guys can comply with that, warn me you're going to lynch me the day before if possible so I can make use of something.

[WormyKrew]

So many holes... I'll try to attempt to help the newb.
1. QT is a quicktopic. Scum use it to communicate during night, hydra heads can communicate whenever. Masons have them, neighbors have them, etc. This disturbs me that she didn't know what one was. However, she may have just not read here PM all the way through, or maybe didn't realize what it stood for?
2. Yes, if town wins, all townies win. Same with scum.
3. You only have 3 votes on you... WAY to early to give up... And if you aren't interested, then replace out, don't suicide.
4. You just said to go ahead and lynch you, now it's a waste?
5. We don't PLAN lynches. Setting up lynches beforehand is superscummy.
6. Now please reveal your "plan".

~Krew

[jilynne1991]

I'm just saying, but it's not that much fun playing townie, so yes, I'm interested, but not that interested. Well, my plan reveals also my role, shall I still explain it?

[wierdalexv]

Posts scream of scum, but

What's a QT?

is a townslip. Scum would KNOW what a QT is. They would have it in there role PM.UNVOTE: jilynne1991

So, I'm thinking Iron/jil team? I personally want to see Iron go first.

First, why are you hunting in terms of scumpairs/teams before there have been any flips yet? This looks like scum trying to appear helpful. Second, why does Iron need to go first if you're putting all this attention on Jily instead?

I don't like these kinds of inconsistencies so early in the game.

FoS: WormyKrew.

This is a good point. It also seems like hydra is an easy defense against inconsistencies, so I'll need more of an explanation than that.

VOTE: WormyKrew

This rubs me the wrong way. I don't know why, call it gut if you want, but I don't like this sheep.

It seems odd that Jily couldn't be bothered to write out 5 sentences.
Somewhat serious VOTE: Jilynne1991

How serious a vote is this? Why did you feel the need to point out that it might not be entirely serious? And, why are you just sheeping what TWIE et al's reason is?

This be a scum voting, everyone.

Vote: Weirdalex.

It's serious, but what I meant by 'somewhat serious' is that it is kind of a minor tell, but I have no better option. As for the TWIE thing,

IT WAS NEVER PATENTED

Which post, did I use like the exact same words or something?

[WormyKrew]

There ARE explanations for a scum asking what a QT is.
1. Didn't read role PM thoroughly.
2. Didn't know QT stands for QuickTopic.
3. Lying scum playing the newbcard.
~Krew

[wierdalexv]

I guess, but I still think it's a townslip.

[WormyKrew]

I've seen newbies "townslip" before. It's a clever tactic.
Also jil, DO NOT CLAIM yet. You claim when at L-1 with someone willing to hammer. Not before that. Also, please, decide. Do you want to be in this game or not? Because if you don't, then I beg of you to replace out.
~Krew

[jilynne1991]

Um, there wasn't any mention of a QT in my role pm...and i read it super thoroughly.

I don't want to replace out. What makes you think that? It's just in my other games I have better roles.

[jilynne1991]

Was there, maybe a problem with my role pm?

[WormyKrew]

Do not mention ongoing games.
Scum can lie. It's kind of what they do. We'll just have to see bout that PM of yours, won't we?
You said you weren't that interested in that game. A Mafia game requires commitment. You aren't always going to get the role you want. You're going to have to learn to deal with it.
~Krew
PDIT: Not all roles have QTs.
I must discuss with ear. I'm starting to get unsure of our vote being on jil. Until we reach a conclusion, it stays there.

[wierdalexv]

OK nevermind. I can't tell if this is a townslip or a scum failing at faking a townslip. What are everyone's thoughts on it? Townslip or not? I'm not so sure anymore....

jilynne, if you are scum, there would be a link to a QT in your role pm. If you are town, there would not.

[Secret Project]

jil is town. Anybody proceeding to vote her now will be policy lynched after we lynch Ironhead today. Not only did she town slip, she's claiming a town PR. If she's not dead by D4 we know something's wrong.