Mini 1180: Game Over

[Soben]

Alright, I'm about to start part two of moving back home and thus won't be able to post in the next 24 hours however I promise to respond to #643 in more detail when I return as a great deal of is untrue. I have read into your games in relatively great detail however the overall tone of the post reads as 'Scum caught for the wrong reasons'. Regardless I'll go into that more later.

Captain, Jillyn might not be confirmed town due to her claim but Scumhunter has convinced me that there's no real need to continue to doubt it as it will either be confirmed as true or false tonight anyway.

[jilynne1991]

Anyways, if I wasn't town, I'd probably claim something easier.

Feel free to lynch me tomorrow, if I'm not.

[WormyKrew]

First off, let me just say that Jil's play reminds me of a SK. We'll keep her around for a while though.

Vig: Elsa

Not a huge fan of her play this game. Good slot to get rid through vigging because of general lack of information coming from the slot.

Response to Ironhead forthcoming.

[mastin2]

Mmm...interesting. Definitely seeing something, which the results of the lynch and vig will help clarify--obviously, can't elaborate beforehand.

[Soben]

Sleepy, if by some chance she is a SK she'll be forced to follow the town decided vig shots making her a massive asset to the town. That reminds me, I've never ever seen or heard of a mini involving a vig, sk and scum team meaning if she is legitimate we're looking at an ordinary 10 town 3 scum average power role game.

Mastin although you may want to hold of explaining some things that case on SleepyKrew and your other suspects are imperative because I'm still not seeing SleepyKrew scum, every post he makes leads me to be more certain he's town - Yes I will go into this and explain it in more detail later.

[jilynne1991]

Gosh, I really wish I know what makes Elsa so scummy, I mean alex I understand, but Elsa? Ok, time to reread.

Anyways, vig votecount:

Elsa von Spielburg (3) WormyKrew, Captain Corporal, Soben

weirdalexv (2) Secret Project, mastin2

(This is all under the pretense that mastin2 is right and I won't be roleblocked.)

Ok, from Soben's posts, I don't necesarily always agree with him, but now I'm nearly 100% sure he's town, based on his content and logic.

[Alduskkel]

I was promised an explanation of reads from Mastin. RAGE. Okay, not really, but that definitely warrants a virtual smack upside the head. Mastin it has been forever since you said you'd explain yourself, and I was willing to wait until the end of this weekend (like you wanted us to), but now it's just preposterous.

Next post. Explanation of reads. Or a damned good explanation on why you haven't posted them yet.

Meanwhile I am rereading.

[mastin2]

Busy because of [REDACTED], of course.

I gave the scumslips I saw, and have since been trying to work out an explanation of my reads.

And am still doing so.

Just have a few distractions here and there which're slowing me down. (Refer to [REDACTED]. )

[Captain Corporal]

Read my post on Elsa, Jily. That's my reasoning.

FoS: Secret Project. Again. I don't like the way you've been forcing this Krew lynch, saying "Krew is scum" over and over. I also don't like the way you're pushing the day to end so quickly. We have time. The deadline was even extended. Why not use that time? >_> Also, the way you vig-vote-hopped onto Alex. With no explaination. You just leaped onto my scumlist again.

[Alduskkel]

Yeah, I only got to page 8. I'm going to have to pick up my reread later (hopefully today).

On the other hand, I've got a good reread post in the works. Turns out all I needed to get the old Mafia fire in me burning again was to reread this game and start making a wall.

Unfortunately (fortunately? depends on how much you're dying for more content from me) it kind of looks like one of Mastin's walls already (albeit smaller and better than quote-oneliner-quote-oneliner) and I still have 19 pages to go. Though that's almost to be expected, since I think Mastin gets a lot of his wall-mode playstyle from me.

[Soben]

TWIE, In 1100 you replaced in 11 pages in and provided bulkages of content in relation to your thoughts on the game, you then continued to aggresively push these reads and thoughts and ended up with a near 50 posts in roughly eight days of active posting, so no you didn't lurk whatsoever in that game and attempting to pretend you did is hillarious. In 1066 I don't disagree that your activity was spottish however when you were active you would post reasonable lengths of content and thoughts about the game, something you haven't done at all here. So far this game what you've done includes:

Post #18. Confirmation post, answers RQS.
Post #21. Questions the RQS questions.
Post #25. Questions information gained from RQS.
Post #88 and Post #89. RVS Vote.
Post #142. Votes Alex for echoing his comments.
Post #238. Agrees with DY saying full scum-town lists can be bad.
Post #332. States he wants to see more from mastin.
Post #424. States towns #1 objective is to find scum.
Post #525. States busy with work but promises to catch up.
Post #598. States he's gotten nowhere due to never playing a mini. Dislikes WK wagon. Questions Jillyns allignment.
Post #616. Attacks meta usage. States he's having trouble finding reads.
Post #643. Attacks meta usage.

But.... I am still very interested in your reason for voting me. >"These games show he's capable of good town play" > He hasn't played good town yet >Lynch him before he gets a chance to do so? Astoundingly good logic.

You've completly mispresented our post and you've done it blatantly as well. We didn't state we wanted you quick-lynched nor did we state we didn't want to hear from you rather the exact opposite, proof of this is in Post #617. The fact that you've attempted to jump on the 'Omg your logic is so bad for voting me' card rather than actually provide reasonable content towards this game continues to strengthen the read we had on you. I cannot understand how you would read a post where you believe we've misread your meta, attacked it for being misread and then proceeded to not state whether you find it scummy for us to do so or not.

Ahoy! Clinger comes in next post.

[Soben]

I just got out of a game where one of my best townreads

thought I was scum and we argued for much of the day... but I still liked (most of) his posting style and the way he generated activity.

Alright. Because I don't like the PoE find scum method because

I dislike the idea of town tells.

All scum is attempting to do is put out towntells by "acting town". I don't care who town is. I'm attempting to find scum.

That should be more than enough proof, can we please get votes of the Sleepy wagon and onto TWIE.

[brokenscraps]

UNVOTE: Ironhead
VOTE: WormyKrew

[mastin2]

Though that's almost to be expected, since I think Mastin gets a lot of his wall-mode playstyle from me.

HA! SO YOU ADMIT IT!
(Whatever happened to you denying that 688 was an influence on me? )

This game should have a lot more of my attention, right now. I'm still going to Defend my reads, though.

[Secret Project]

It's actually 3/3, Jil. You missed Yoshi's vote for Alex.

mod, would you be so kind as to update the player list?

[Substrike22]

Done Sorry, got it on the votecount but not on the first post.

[Substrike22]

Current Votecount: Post 666 (dun dun dun)
6/13/11 3:24 pm PST
D 1.9

wierdalexv 2 TheWayItEnds, Elsa Von Spielburg
Soben 0
Elsa von Spielburg 2 Wiredalexv, Captain Corporal,
Gerhard Krause 1 Alduskkel,
jilynne1991 0
TheWayItEnds 1 Soben,
DarthYoshi 0
Brokenscraps 0
Secret Project 0
Ironhead 1 WormyKrew,
Alduskkel 0
Mastin2 0

WormyKrew 5 (L-2) Darth Yoshi, Mastin2, jilynne1991, Ironhead, Brokenscraps,

V/LA's: Elsa, June 12-19th
Yoshi, Weekend


With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch!

Not Voting: Secret Project,

[Captain Corporal]

If someone puts Krew at L-1 and Secret Project doesn't wait for a claim, I will be mad. Don't do it, SP.

[Soben]

Wierdalexv [2] - TheWayItEnds, Elsa Von Spielburg

This is scum avoiding the mslynch that's going to occur if Krew actually goes through and attempting to set up a lynch on Alex for tommorow. How everyone fails to see this I don't understand.

[DarthYoshi]

Okay, catch-up wall incoming…

Elsa’s #535: Why are you pre-emptively casting doubt on your own vote like this? Either you think weakly pushing a mislynch is scummy, or you don’t. You seem overly concerned with how your voting is viewed.

I’m still not getting the side-dish sort of focus on Jily. We’re not lynching her today. It’s that simple. If she is what she says she is, her role is very easily confirmable. If she isn’t what she says she is, we can throw her into death stew later on fairly easily. (Side note, I think her observation about Capt Corporal in #540 is a decent one, especially since Corporal’s response in #542 is all kinds of awful—there’s nothing to push for, mate? Yeah, there is—the lynching of scumz.)

SP’s #550: If by “the unanimous ‘Darth is scum,” you mean you and Mastin, then yeah. What I want to know is why you are so adamant in agreeing with Mastin that I am scum when in that very same post, you’re tearing Mastin a new one for pretty much the same reasons I have been all game—posting craploads of fluff, not explaining anything, etc. Also, what exactly about WK’s recent posts (and I want specific examples) “scream” town to you? Whichever head wrote those words is the head I want answering that question; I don’t care if you two are split on him.

WK’s #554-56 look more like a player attempting to appear helpful than a player who is, you know, actually being helpful.

Mastin’s #559-61: Please explain why you can’t support the Elsa wagon (ie, why is Elsa town?)

WK’s #564: It’s called buddying.

Corporal’s #566: How about actually responding to Mastin’s content as opposed to stating, basically, fluff?

Jily’s #573: Why is Alex leaning town to you?

Alduskkel’s #582: Your response to me was an overreaction or overcompensation, imo.

Ironhead’s #594: How has Alex’s interactions with SP and Elsa demonstrated towniness? (As an aside, I’m fairly convinced that the Alex-Elsa interactions cannot be a bus; I’m thinking that if one flips scum, the other is probtown.) Also, please elaborate your town read on Alduskkel.

Mastin’s #597: First, why are you spoilering absolutely everything now? Second, you came into the game with me as your #1 scumread, but now the only reason I’m scum is PoE? WTF? Also, PoE is at its weakest on D1—it becomes far more useful as the game progresses.

TWIE’s #598 is…eh. Speaking as a participant in Newbie 1100, yes, TWIE was more active on the whole, but he also had moments where he kinda dropped off the radar. This post I see as being far more lengthy than his town-efforts in 1100—basically, he’s using six words a lot when only one or two will do. Which may be a null tell for someone like, say, Mastin, but here, I’m not sure. TWIE stays null for me, but I’m going to be watching him. Soben’s #612 is fairly decent in this regard.

WK’s #620: What, townies can’t disagree with other townies about their respective townreads? For instance, I think Soben is probably town, but I have no capacity to agree with them atm that you’re town.

Ironhead: What do you think of the Soben/Mastin interactions on p25?

That gets me up to p26, where the vig-voting starts and I crawl back out from under my rock. Vote stays on WK, and vig vote stays on Alex (since I think his flip will be pretty informative, in addition to what Mastin says in his vote), but TWIE gets an honorable mention. Though I do have one question--SP, why did you switch your vig vote from me to Alex?

I’ll get to the last couple of pages later. *goes to order pizza*

PEdit: Soben, I disagree. Elsa hasn't been around for a couple of days, so her vote is arguably stale; moreover, if they are scum, they'd have a vested interest in pushing a WK mislynch. Neither seem that interested in it even in their non-voting content.

[Soben]

PEdit: Soben, I disagree. Elsa hasn't been around for a couple of days, so her vote is arguably stale; moreover, if they are scum, they'd have a vested interest in pushing a WK mislynch. Neither seem that interested in it even in their non-voting content.

This is where I believe you're wrong, although scum want to push mslynches they also don't want to take responsibility for them, especially not this early in the game. Scum are more likely to be lurking around and allowing the lynch to proceed without doing too much of the dirty work themselves. Read the comments that I'll post below and you'll notice both of them have at some point pushed some suspicion towards him while also stating they don't fully agree with his lynch. If they believed this was the case and that he was town they would be doing something to attempt to prevent this lynch going through like I am, however again they both stood back and watched it take place.

I think I'd be okay with a Krew lynch at this point, based on the way he didn't let jily go in their exchange earlier and now has kind disappeared under pressure. I won't vote just yet, but that's something that I see a lot out of scum, at least when playing IRL (which is largely my base in playing mafia).

Reread the last 5 pages or so. Honestly, I was most suspicious of our two hydras before, with Krew being suspect #1, and there has been nothing to change that suspicion while I wholeheartedly agree with SP's 467. I have several somewhat-solid town-reads that I'm making note of, but Krew has never pinged that bit of my brain even once, despite his relatively high activity. For the most part, the biggest thing that catches my eye seems like Krew flailing in his last few posts and switching to SP in an attempt to find any kind of purchase. I would like to vote, but don't know where we are in the vote count (I'll gladly put him at L-1, but I don't want to hammer out of the blue).

I was planning on dropping my vote on Krew, like I had said earlier, to put him at L-1, but he had to go and post 508, which has the self-awareness and tone that looks incredibly town. I mean, saying why someone's town read on you is fundamentally flawed? What scum does that?

I think the WK wagon built up really fast which makes me slightly suspicious of it. It's probably town propelled for the most part, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were 1-2 scum on the wagon at some point. The other problem I'm having is that I'm pretty sure that mastin started pushing the WK wagon before WK posted his 'i like you "

slip

"', meaning that I'm still missing out on the reason the wagon was actually started (which, if it exists, I would still be interested in). I also don't like the slip, as I feel that liking a replacement for their posting, or their reads, or their X... means that you have to agree with everything that person has ever said.

[Captain Corporal]

Post #566 was fluff, yes, but I saw nothing to respond to in Mastin's posts. I can understand his POV.

[Captain Corporal]

Also, Yoshi, I blatantly disagree eith you on this issue of post #542. I am not required to push. I am required to scumhunt. Which, in post #544, I show I can do WITHOUT pushing. I've seen pushing get the wrong result too many times.

[TheWayItEnds]

TWIE, In 1100 you replaced in 11 pages in and provided bulkages of content in relation to your thoughts on the game, you then continued to aggresively push these reads and thoughts and ended up with a near 50 posts in roughly eight days of active posting, so no you didn't lurk whatsoever in that game and attempting to pretend you did is hillarious. In 1066 I don't disagree that your activity was spottish however when you were active you would post reasonable lengths of content and thoughts about the game, something you haven't done at all here. So far this game what you've done includes:

Yes, in my most recent newbie... as in my third one. You know. The one where I had 3 arguments going on at the same time? I didn't say I lurked in that game, I said I didn't play the proactive town. I played purposefully abrasive, which is against my normal play. Nice misrep though. I like it.
But.... wait.... In my first newbie.... I did active lurk? Have you tried Open 275 yet? No? Alright, Bullshit meta is still bullshit meta then.

Post #18. Confirmation post, answers RQS.
Post #21. Questions the RQS questions.
Post #25. Questions information gained from RQS.
Post #88 and Post #89. RVS Vote.
Post #142. Votes Alex for echoing his comments.
Post #238. Agrees with DY saying full scum-town lists can be bad.
Post #332. States he wants to see more from mastin.
Post #424. States towns #1 objective is to find scum.
Post #525. States busy with work but promises to catch up.
Post #598. States he's gotten nowhere due to never playing a mini. Dislikes WK wagon. Questions Jillyns allignment.
Post #616. Attacks meta usage. States he's having trouble finding reads.
Post #643. Attacks meta usage.

Those are totally my posts. Thats amazing.

But.... I am still very interested in your reason for voting me. >"These games show he's capable of good town play" > He hasn't played good town yet >Lynch him before he gets a chance to do so? Astoundingly good logic.

You've completly mispresented our post and you've done it blatantly as well. We didn't state we wanted you quick-lynched nor did we state we didn't want to hear from you rather the exact opposite, proof of this is in Post #617. The fact that you've attempted to jump on the 'Omg your logic is so bad for voting me' card rather than actually provide reasonable content towards this game continues to strengthen the read we had on you. I cannot understand how you would read a post where you believe we've misread your meta, attacked it for being misread and then proceeded to not state whether you find it scummy for us to do so or not.

Ahoy! Clinger comes in next post.

You quoted me.... implying that the reasons that I think your attention on me are less than town.
But you can't find me saying that I think its scummy?
Really?
... Really?
Alright then.

That post of mine that you quoted, go ahead and replace it with.

"Soben, are you really attempting to get more votes on me because you've seen me play a good town game and want me gone before I can do so again? What would be the town motivation behind that?"
Shit. That still doesn't explicitly state how I think there might be a scum motivation... it's implied... but that didn't go over too well last time.
Ah well. Maybe you'll get it.

[TheWayItEnds]

I just got out of a game where one of my best townreads

thought I was scum and we argued for much of the day... but I still liked (most of) his posting style and the way he generated activity.

Alright. Because I don't like the PoE find scum method because

I dislike the idea of town tells.

All scum is attempting to do is put out towntells by "acting town". I don't care who town is. I'm attempting to find scum.

That should be more than enough proof, can we please get votes of the Sleepy wagon and onto TWIE.

Uh huh. Whats the issue?

I'm finding it really hard to believe you actually read any part of 1100.

I replaced in, I defended some one I called town.

She was, a TOWNREAD *gasp*

Why? Not because she put out "towntells"
Because she was Blatantly. Obviously. Town.

If, and when, I have townreads... you won't know, unless that person is in need of defending.
I will however, point out when I think things are suspicious.
I will not let you know when I think someone does something "towny" although I will note it.