Toy Story Mafia (Day 9)

[Flavour Analysis]

GLOWBALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL : DDD

Ah ok. Can you explain why you feel Beck is scum to you now? Can you also give thoughts on Kendall, Nanook, Bobxnox, and Umbrage?

Yes, but those questions weren't really scumhunting, So I don't see him trying to look pro-town there, nor should one think he is town just for that. I deff want him to explain his purpose now, and I want him to post.

There isn't basically nothing to analyze. On the second page, there isn't much to analyze, and the best way to get info TO ANALYZE, is to get discussion going. We have that, and now we have enough to base reads by, as you can see I have even posted my reads.

[Flavour Analysis]

Ray Montano. What are your thoughts on Kendall, Bob, Umbrage, and Nanook?

[Ray Montano]

It could be her off site experience has soured her to perceived buddying

Excuse. If we start allowing things like that to slip by the game gets way too muddled.

Ray Montano. What are your thoughts on Kendall, Bob, Umbrage, and Nanook?

I think kendall's biggest draw isn't that she's trying to hard, I think she's just throwing so much shit up there on the wall and hoping something will stick. Right from her very first post:

They have a purpose; please answer them.

why should i answer your questions? how do i know this isn't a

mafia

purpose?

3] What will you be known for in this game? - probably for posting something stupid and I will probably end up tunneling too hard on somebody like I have done in every game I play in.

it's unsettling to me that he's already providing an excuse for "tunneling" a member, which is often indicative of an eager mafia. i don't like this

VOTE: jmurph because you caught me as scum in a newbie game once.

only a mafia would be afraid of being caught as scum.

Things like this all just seem very unnecessary. Its one thing to start a line of questioning on a player, its another thing to start something and be like "oh and here's X reason why". Like saying its unsettling that Beck is providing an excuse to tunnel...and then adding on why he could be scum for it. Its too early in the game to be making statements like that with value. Because there's no value in it right now. In my opinion, its shit throwing.

I think bob is fine for right now. I'm not really seeing anything that's unsettling to me except for maybe being a little opportunistic with the kendall vote. Other than that I think he's been right on (if not a little unnecessary with the fluff posting).

I think Umbrage is being far more opportunistic than bob is with the kendall vote, considering there's quite a lack of content posting from the guy.

And fucking Nanook...he's perfect and has everything a Mafia player needs.

But in all serious he's been rational and brought up good points and generated good discussion.

Ray Montano. What are your thoughts on Kendall, Bob, Umbrage, and Nanook?

HOLD. UP. Jesus I was writing it up. Push me again and you get nothing.

[k e n d a l l]

@bobsnox

, the only "

evidence

" that you have "against me" is that my actions are too pro-town. that evidence certainly does not incriminate me; in fact, it does the opposite.

@flavour

Because no one is pressuring my second suspect.

that sentence is a reasonable explanation. i was asking you those questions to test your reaction. you passed for now, but i'm still wary of your relationship to bobsnox.

What was your thoughts on tunneling again?

i think tunneling is anti-town, because you focus on only one player and avoid the scummy behavior of others.

@ray

everyone in this game has something to worry about: your win condition. so yes, based on my win condition i am worried that mafia will deceive the town. i consider every aspect of strategy, considering this is,afterall, a

strategic

game. if you play with "no worries," you fail to think, you fail to plan, and you don't meet your win condition. i like to cover all of my bases.

@umbrage

care to comment on any of your scummy behavior i pointed out? or are you going to continue tunneling me?also, it's naive to let someone "buddy up" and share your ideas without commenting on it. you run the risk of seeming allied with them.

@silver

jester is the most idiotic role in all of mafia, and i would be very disappointed if he were.

he's likely mafia, though.

@mikehard

quit talking about my offsite play; nothing annoys me more than metagame. we've all been over this

several

times. i am an admittedly aggressive player. it is my playstyle. if you can pinpoint something that makes me scummy then be my guest, but so far all that you have going is that i'm trying too hard to be pro-town.

i also find it interesting that you seem to mirror bobsnox and umbrage. again, town, notice these bandwagons and pay very close attention to them.

town reminder: mafia members are threatened by players with a voice. i guarantee that the mafia want me dead right now.

also, yes, i am distancing myself from nanook and flavour, as well as everyone else in this game; i don't trust anyone. it is day one, the only person i trust is myself.

@nanook

my mistake. i thought you believed beck to be mafia.

[Flavour Analysis]

Just a minute there Ray. I was only posting it as a reminder since we were on a new page. I didn't want you to miss it. I didn't know you were writing the post. Sorry.

[k e n d a l l]

It could be her off site experience has soured her to perceived buddying

Excuse. If we start allowing things like that to slip by the game gets way too muddled.

Ray Montano. What are your thoughts on Kendall, Bob, Umbrage, and Nanook?

I think kendall's biggest draw isn't that she's trying to hard, I think she's just throwing so much shit up there on the wall and hoping something will stick. Right from her very first post:

They have a purpose; please answer them.

why should i answer your questions? how do i know this isn't a

mafia

purpose?

3] What will you be known for in this game? - probably for posting something stupid and I will probably end up tunneling too hard on somebody like I have done in every game I play in.

it's unsettling to me that he's already providing an excuse for "tunneling" a member, which is often indicative of an eager mafia. i don't like this

VOTE: jmurph because you caught me as scum in a newbie game once.

only a mafia would be afraid of being caught as scum.

Things like this all just seem very unnecessary.

are you saying that pointing out suspicious behavior is unnecessary? that's not very pro-town of you.

Its too early in the game to be making statements like that with value. Because there's no value in it right now. In my opinion, its shit throwing.

the way i play is when i see scummy behavior, i note
1. that it has the potential to be scummy and
2. why it has the potential to be scummy.
hence the scenarios. it doesn't mean i think that particular person is mafia, it just means that i'm noting what i thought was suspicious and explaining why. yes, i am very suspicious in this game. i dissect posts, but my gameplay has yet to fail me. however, i vote for the person i believe to be mafia. at the moment that person is bobsnox.

[Flavour Analysis]

Kendall

:

Mhmm. Btw, you didn't answer why one should vote for the most likely mafia, instead of the second or third likely mafia. Could you get to that?
Thank you for clarifying your stance on tunneling. I feel it helps get your scumpick lynched. I generally spread pressure around.

[Ray Montano]

@ray

everyone in this game has something to worry about: your win condition. so yes, based on my win condition i am worried that mafia will deceive the town. i consider every aspect of strategy, considering this is,afterall, a

strategic

game. if you play with "no worries," you fail to think, you fail to plan, and you don't meet your win condition. i like to cover all of my bases.

If your win condition is to player for yourself then great! You're probably doing an amazing job. But if your win condition is to play on a team with players who do not know anyone's alignment and can only gain information from logical assessment points (of which you should be helping to provide) then booooo. You are failing. It seems to me that you are only concerned with numero uno and that is not a pro-town attitude.

Just a minute there Ray. I was only posting it as a reminder since we were on a new page. I didn't want you to miss it. I didn't know you were writing the post. Sorry.

Don't assume I'm going to miss things.

are you saying that pointing out suspicious behavior is unnecessary? that's not very pro-town of you.

No. I'm saying that pointing out "suspicious behavior" (in quotes because none of that really was) and then explaining why that would make them scum is unnecessary.

the way i play is when i see scummy behavior, i note
1. that it has the potential to be scummy and
2. why it has the potential to be scummy.

Then we're going to have some issues. Because #2 is fine when you're attempting to lynch a player. But if you're providing #2 with every single #1 you give then you're already killing discussion because you've eliminated the need to discuss the validity of #1. And discussing out #1 is where you find players slipping up. You only have to throw out #1 and #2 if you're attempting to lynch a player or you're desperate for any suspicion on any player.

[k e n d a l l]

Kendall

:

Mhmm. Btw, you didn't answer why one should vote for the most likely mafia, instead of the second or third likely mafia. Could you get to that?
Thank you for clarifying your stance on tunneling. I feel it helps get your scumpick lynched. I generally spread pressure around.

a push vote is understandable, if it's retracted once the player has responded to satisfaction. however, i believe that it is anti-town to not vote for who you believe to be mafia. it serves the best interest of the town to be voting for who you think is most likely to be mafia. if you think someone is mafia, but vote for someone who you think is less suspicious, that could hurt the town. it makes no sense to vote for one person, when you believe someone else is more likely to be mafia.

[k e n d a l l]

i would like to point out that my aggressive playstyle has a purpose - to upset the mafia.

pay close attention to those who bandwagon onto my lynch, town.

[Ray Montano]

i would like to point out that my aggressive playstyle has a purpose - to upset the mafia.

pay close attention to those who bandwagon onto my lynch, town.

Stating that purpose and then telling what to pay attention to negates any purpose you had.

[mikehart]

@bobsnox

, the only "

evidence

" that you have "against me" is that my actions are too pro-town. that evidence certainly does not incriminate me; in fact, it does the opposite.

@mikehard

quit talking about my offsite play; nothing annoys me more than metagame. we've all been over this

several

times. i am an admittedly aggressive player. it is my playstyle. if you can pinpoint something that makes me scummy then be my guest, but so far all that you have going is that i'm trying too hard to be pro-town.

i also find it interesting that you seem to mirror bobsnox and umbrage. again, town, notice these bandwagons and pay very close attention to them.

town reminder: mafia members are threatened by players with a voice. i guarantee that the mafia want me dead right now.

also, yes, i am distancing myself from nanook and flavour, as well as everyone else in this game; i don't trust anyone. it is day one, the only person i trust is myself.

One: its hart with a t. mikehard sounds like a pornstars name.

Two: You don't seem to read very well. Bobs point was it

seems

like like you are

trying

too hard to

seem

town. Not that your actions are too protown.

Three(this ones for ray too): it wasn't my intention to bring up offsite experience as an excuse or as anything regarding meta but just describing my thought process on reasons I could understand the extreme(again, my opinion) distancing when there wasn't really call for it. Also, I don't think your playstyle was discussed

several

times. A few maybe. But not

several

.

Four: In my opinion your attempts to seem pro town are over the top and I do find that scummy so there is your pinpoint.

Five: I'm not on any bandwagon. I FoSed you, not voted. Also, I'm not mirroring Umbrage or bob but pointing out that I feel you are scummy. It just happens to be the same reasoning as bob so I said so.

Six: I tend to disagree on about mafia members fear players with a voice. Players with a strong vehement voice like your draw a lot of attention that may have otherwise been directed elsewhere.

Seven: I understand about not trusting anyone but your distancing was just over the top.

[Hiraki]

Sorry, I'll have a catchup later.

[k e n d a l l]

If your win condition is to player for yourself then great! You're probably doing an amazing job. But if your win condition is to play on a team with players who do not know anyone's alignment and can only gain information from logical assessment points (of which you should be helping to provide) then booooo. You are failing. It seems to me that you are only concerned with numero uno and that is not a pro-town attitude.

explain to me which of my arguments is not

"logical

" also, explain how i have neglected to provide any logical assessment points. are you trying to say that none of the scenarios make any sense?

if so, then that's excellent. be my guest, dissect each of my arguments and point out my logical fallacies. i encourage it.

No. I'm saying that pointing out "suspicious behavior" (in quotes because none of that really was) and then explaining why that would make them scum is unnecessary.

tell me how explaining what is suspicious about someone's behavior is unnecessary. would you prefer we all just say "

kendall is suspicious

" and leave it at that? no. you have to state who is suspicious, and what they did to make them seem that way.
it doesn't make them mafia
but it keeps a record of suspicious things that they did.
all that we have to go off of in this game is words, and you better believe i will pay close attention to each post and try and figure out why someone posted it.

the way i play is when i see scummy behavior, i note
1. that it has the potential to be scummy and
2. why it has the potential to be scummy.

Then we're going to have some issues. Because #2 is fine when you're attempting to lynch a player. But if you're providing #2 with every single #1 you give then you're already killing discussion because you've eliminated the need to discuss the validity of #1. And discussing out #1 is where you find players slipping up. You only have to throw out #1 and #2 if you're attempting to lynch a player or you're desperate for any suspicion on any player.

you can't have number 1 without number 2. if someone does something suspicious, there has to be a reason why you think it's suspicious. case and point. you are all spending too much time talking about how aggressive i am, and have neglected to even look at my arguments and do the "

discussing

" you talk so much about. i have done what i'm supposed to and note suspicious material, now you should all look into them.

see what i had to say.
by all means, refute it.

but don't sit there and call my arguments/scenarios illogical without explaining where i am wrong.

i'm still waiting for that explanation, by the way.

[k e n d a l l]

that goes for all of you,
whether you are suspicious of me or not: read my arguments.

[k e n d a l l]

i would like to point out that my aggressive playstyle has a purpose - to upset the mafia.

pay close attention to those who bandwagon onto my lynch, town.

Stating that purpose and then telling what to pay attention to negates any purpose you had.

it doesn't negate anything. i knew what would happen, and i was right.

i came in strong, and the mafia don't like that. i wanted them to pit themselves against me, and i guarantee you some have done that.

[k e n d a l l]

One: its hart with a t. mikehard sounds like a pornstars name.

lol

Two: You don't seem to read very well. Bobs point was it

seems

like like you are

trying

too hard to

seem

town. Not that your actions are too protown.

what is the difference? everything i have done is pro-town. he says i'm trying "too hard to seem town" because i have been playing an aggressive pro-town game. what have i done that is anti-town?

i encourage you to point out anything that didn't serve to benefit the town.

Four: In my opinion your attempts to seem pro town are over the top and I do find that scummy so there is your pinpoint.

okay, okay, okay
so i have acted way too pro-town, therefore i'm scummy, yadayada. i've heard that all before (by the other people, namely the ones i think are mafia. why am i not surprised that your opinions mirror them?)

what have i done that is

anti-town

? point out one instance where i have hurt the town.

Five: I'm not on any bandwagon. I FoSed you, not voted. Also, I'm not mirroring Umbrage or bob but pointing out that I feel you are scummy. It just happens to be the same reasoning as bob so I said so.

"i'm not mirroring bob, but i think the same thing as him."
mmhmm

neither of you have pointed out anything anti-town that i have done. you both share the same illogical argument: that i'm too pro-town. lllloooollll

Seven: I understand about not trusting anyone but your distancing was just over the top.

why?
you have a pattern. you answer questions without providing why you answered the question.
why do you think it is over the top?
what is over the top?
where am i wrong?
what have i said that makes me suspicious?


i want answers.
real answers.
full answers.

[nintendoaddict1]

why did you feel it necessary to announce in thread that you agree with me?

As for feeling necessary to announce in thread that I agreed with a point

Sounds like they are implying they have out-of-thread communication.

i'm going to make it known in thread that they are doing it.

There it is again.

i guarantee that the mafia want me dead right now.

Scum say this too, so that is just WIFOM.

also, yes, i am distancing myself from nanook and flavour, as well as everyone else in this game; i don't trust anyone. it is day one, the only person i trust is myself.

If you are distancing yourself from

everoyone

, why do you feel the need to single out Nanook and Flavour?

Long story short, kendall(not putting in all the spaces) has spent too much time looking active and not enough time reading his own posts to see himself telling us that he is scum.

Vote: kendall

[Ray Montano]

Okay kendall.

They have a purpose; please answer them.

why should i answer your questions? how do i know this isn't a

mafia

purpose?

3] What will you be known for in this game? - probably for posting something stupid and I will probably end up tunneling too hard on somebody like I have done in every game I play in.

it's unsettling to me that he's already providing an excuse for "tunneling" a member, which is often indicative of an eager mafia. i don't like this

VOTE: jmurph because you caught me as scum in a newbie game once.

only a mafia would be afraid of being caught as scum.

1. Asking why you should answer the question before answering is...somewhat reasonable, if not just being difficult. But then asking if its for a mafia purpose? That's just ridiculous. Do you expect him to answer yes? Not logical.
2. Stating that you're unsettled by a player making an excuse for tunneling is...somewhat reasonable. But then following it up with its because its indicative of "eager mafia"? Why didn't you ask why he would provide an excuse for tunneling and call him out on it instead of giving a copout reasoning behind your suspicion? If your suspicion is valid then you wouldn't have to over-explain yourself and you can nail him with the "its indicative of eager mafia" if he reacts poorly. The focus is taken off what you're suspicious of, and instead puts it on this "eager mafia" claim. Not logical.
3. Just ridiculousness.

Considering that's all I brought up of you would you like me to go find other examples? I think you can get the point. But if you don't it'd be my pleasure.

tell me how explaining what is suspicious about someone's behavior is unnecessary. would you prefer we all just say "

kendall is suspicious

" and leave it at that? no. you have to state who is suspicious, and what they did to make them seem that way.
it doesn't make them mafia
but it keeps a record of suspicious things that they did.
all that we have to go off of in this game is words, and you better believe i will pay close attention to each post and try and figure out why someone posted it.

the way i play is when i see scummy behavior, i note
1. that it has the potential to be scummy and
2. why it has the potential to be scummy.

Then we're going to have some issues. Because #2 is fine when you're attempting to lynch a player. But if you're providing #2 with every single #1 you give then you're already killing discussion because you've eliminated the need to discuss the validity of #1. And discussing out #1 is where you find players slipping up. You only have to throw out #1 and #2 if you're attempting to lynch a player or you're desperate for any suspicion on any player.

Don't ask me questions I've already answered.

you can't have number 1 without number 2. if someone does something suspicious, there has to be a reason why you think it's suspicious. case and point.

If you provide case and point hand in hand then the argument becomes about the point instead of the case, which is really the important thing to be discussed. Providing the case AND THEN providing a line of questioning which can juice information out of other players brings focus to the case and can bring up other points.

i want answers.
real answers.
full answers.

Get over yourself.

Vote: kendall

I don't see how you're providing anything useful to the town, I don't think you're attempting to generate discussion that can provide information on other players' alignment, and I think you're in this game all about yourself...which is a significantly anti-town attitude.

[NanookTheWolf]

I would just like to point out that all this talk about number 1 and number 2 just make me think of potty training my 3 year old,

All joking aside.

@Mikehart, Could you elaborate some more on your previous statements in your last post?


Most likely the mafia are having a field day with all this banter, eyes have shifted. Plenty of good content so far though. Need to hear from those lurkers out there,

@Silver,

I think bobsnox = Jester, actually. Look, he's simply posting dumb things.

Not much different then your posting. You haven't really participated with the discussion at all ... In fact the only things that you've stated are that you didn't want to random vote and that bob is a jester. I know your sig says lurker, but it would help if you actually placed a vote or an fos. It's early in the day, but there's plenty of leads to play with.

@Ray, .. I just want to point out that the only reason that I stated "in thread" was because kendall did. You can make of it what you'd like though.

[Ray Montano]

@Ray, .. I just want to point out that the only reason that I stated "in thread" was because kendall did. You can make of it what you'd like though.

Noted, thanks.

[Umbrage]

I think Umbrage is being far more opportunistic than bob is with the kendall vote, considering there's quite a lack of content posting from the guy.

It's called minimalism. In a game of this size we can't all go RAH RAH LOOK AT ME.

care to comment on any of your scummy behavior i pointed out? or are you going to continue tunneling me?also, it's naive to let someone "buddy up" and share your ideas without commenting on it. you run the risk of seeming allied with them.

Which is fine when you see someone is actively buddying you. Saying you agree with someone and/or think they are town once doesn't mean you're buddying them. You sound really paranoid and worried that it'll look like someone's buddying you.

[mikehart]

God I hate doing a huge quote reply with my phone but hear goes.

One: its hart with a t. mikehard sounds like a pornstars name.

lol

Two: You don't seem to read very well. Bobs point was it

seems

like like you are

trying

too hard to

seem

town. Not that your actions are too protown.

what is the difference? everything i have done is pro-town. he says i'm trying "too hard to seem town" because i have been playing an aggressive pro-town game. what have i done that is anti-town?

i encourage you to point out anything that didn't serve to benefit the town.

Four: In my opinion your attempts to seem pro town are over the top and I do find that scummy so there is your pinpoint.

okay, okay, okay
so i have acted way too pro-town, therefore i'm scummy, yadayada. i've heard that all before (by the other people, namely the ones i think are mafia. why am i not surprised that your opinions mirror them?)

what have i done that is

anti-town

? point out one instance where i have hurt the town.

Just because you aren't necessarily being anti town doesn't mean you aren't scummy or can't be scum trying to seem protown. Also, I haven't found all that much of your posting to be particularly good for the town either so your argument is null to me.

Five: I'm not on any bandwagon. I FoSed you, not voted. Also, I'm not mirroring Umbrage or bob but pointing out that I feel you are scummy. It just happens to be the same reasoning as bob so I said so.

"i'm not mirroring bob, but i think the same thing as him."
mmhmm

neither of you have pointed out anything anti-town that i have done. you both share the same illogical argument: that i'm too pro-town. lllloooollll

There are a lot of people in this game. Many will have similar thoughts, ideas, and theories. Just because I have a similar thought process and reads does not mean its mirroring.

Seven: I understand about not trusting anyone but your distancing was just over the top.

why?
you have a pattern. you answer questions without providing why you answered the question.
why do you think it is over the top?
what is over the top?
where am i wrong?
what have i said that makes me suspicious?


i want answers.
real answers.
full answers.

It wasn't something that required distancing in my eyes. Nanook agreed with a single point you made and you jumped to distance yourself. That's weird to me. Flavor shared current reads and again you jumped. That's really

REALLY

weird to me. Sharing that you read someone as town is not buddying, nor is it something that needs to be distanced from.

PEdit: @Nanook: Could you be slightly more specific about what you would like elaborated on? I try to elaborate as much as I can ahead of time so further elaboration is easier with specific examples.

PEdit part deux: damnit umbridge now she will say I'm mirroring you again cause you explained the not needing to distance thing.

[Ray Montano]

I think Umbrage is being far more opportunistic than bob is with the kendall vote, considering there's quite a lack of content posting from the guy.

It's called minimalism. In a game of this size we can't all go RAH RAH LOOK AT ME.

But why would you rather someone like kendall taking up the attention? Do you honestly believe her talking as much as she has and you talking as little as you are is beneficial to the town?

[k e n d a l l]

@nintendo

it doesn't imply anything. i just asked why nanook felt it was necessary to specifically post agreeance with me in thread, rather than noting it to himself, and moving on.

maybe it could be considered WIFOM, but regardless it worked. i posted aggressively and have immediately been targetted by members under the assertion that i am "too pro town" i assure you at least one of them is mafia. i think bobsnox is mafia.

also, you either missed this post:

It could be her off site experience has soured her to perceived buddying but her rather extreme(in my opinion anyway) distancing of herself from

Nanook and Flavor

doesn't seem genuine and an over the top attempt to seem protown.

that's why i mentioned those two, because it was mentioned previously.

which leads me to believe either you missed that, or you're grasping for straws to be "suspicious" of me.

Long story short, kendall(not putting in all the spaces) has spent too much time looking active and not enough time reading his own posts to see himself telling us that he is scum.

are you implying i haven't posted any content? if you think i "told you i am scum" then point it out.

by all means, as i keep challenging all of you to do: refute my arguments.
if you think i'm mafia - provide instances where i have been anti-town.

no one has touched them yet. the only thing people dislike is my aggressive way of going about things, but hey, that's how i play.

if you don't like it, you're probably mafia.