Into Africa - Over

[LlamaFluff]

Vote Count

Amrun (1) - elvis_knits
Calcifer (1) - Altilysian
Lowell (1) - Amrun

Not Voting (6) - snarky, vezokpiraka, Lowell, Seacore, Calcifer, Charlie

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch

[Seacore]

It wasn't obvious to me.

[Amrun]

I guess elvis is right and I should have just gone along with it for appearances and on the off-chance some scum did something dumb.

I thought it was exceedingly obvious though.

[Seacore]

Also, EK, I definitely see 'some' WIFOM in my speculation, but I still think it's mostly valid.

Scenario 1: We say "hey, we're going to use CKD to kill X (who is town)" - Scum say "yay, that's one less mislynch we need to worry about"
Scenario 2: We say "hey, we're going to use CKD to kill Y (who is scum)" - Scum say "crap, can't let that happen"

I mean, they may fake Scenario 1 to look like Scenario 2, but they're effectively wasting 3 kills in doing so (1 where we get CKD to kill town, 1 where we kill CKD at end game and 1 of their NKs which could have been aimed at actual town). Assuming that we then 'wrongfully' kill Calcifer. That still nets them 2 kills down.

The maths just doesn't add up. I think it's got to be a more genuine life saving attempt.

Vote Calcifer

I honestly don't remember exactly why I like snarky for a lynch except that I remember wanting it early and he's not really contributing much.

[Amrun]

Ek needs to explain a town read on snarky fast

[Seacore]

Looking over the live list, I don't have a town read on anybody. Maybe, grudgingly, Vezok.

It's not to say that I find everybody equally scummy or lynch worthy, but I wouldn't be surprised if anybody flips scum. Ugh.

[Calcifer]

and Calcifer feels so strongly about Seacore that he calls him confirmed scum. Does not compute.

Vote: Calcifer

You've never heard a townie use that kind of language? Honey, you need to get out more.

[Calcifer]

Another small theory RE calcifer. Calcifer was potentially going to be pushed into accepting a Day Vig from ckd. So calcifer first made an unreasonable request to put it off for a day, and then CKD finally dies, despite openly being a tool for the town for days.

First: Lowell was also going to be killed.
Second: Let's quote my unreasonable claim...

Cal, would like to hear some feedback from you..you said you would be okay with being vigged, but didnt want to be off guard...if you read the thread you would have seen that there was support for your vigging..so why did you post?...how do you feel like your game is going? do you think your presence in the game is helpful or hurtful? Who is scum?

I want to have final words on who to lynch when I die. Have I been playing a good game? Hell no. Have I been playing a vigworthy game? Hell no.

Seacore is as good as confirmed scum and needs instant righteous death. He is by far my surest scumread, and I would be glad to lurk to the death if you can A) kill him first and then shoot me, or B) promise me his death on a townflip from me.

Let's see... I wanted you to be killed first, or you to die after I'm shot. How is this unreasonable? Arrogant, maybe. But nothing more than that.

[Calcifer]

Amrum and Calcifer are scum.

Massclaim? I don't know what info it'll give us, but why not? so yeah, scummier first massclaim seems fine. We start with Amrum.

"I think the people with the most support for being lynched are scum."
HI SEACORE SCUMBUDDY

[Calcifer]

I mean, I will do it if everyone wants, but why shold I?
All town members are vt.

Soooo. Yeah. It's obvious. What a waste of time.

^Town.

If Amrun was scum, Amrun would've told her scumbuddies this during the night. And they would have let all the claiming happen, and it wouldn't have been a big deal. Unless EK truly believes scumAmrun just had an epiphany as soon as you called for a massclaim...?

[Calcifer]

I see a lot of timid people sniffing around looking for a "safe" compromise lynch of Lowell. This ain't congress, people. You've got to do your own thinking.

Half-assed defense that shows no forward thought at all?
Burn death death die.

[Calcifer]

I honestly don't remember exactly why I like snarky for a lynch except that I remember wanting it early and he's not really contributing much.

This is a not-so-subtle backoff of a distancing dance with snarky.
"So, guys? I suddenly don't remember anything about that snarky guy anymore, so I'm just gonna vote for a townie. See ya later!"

[Calcifer]

Looking over the live list, I don't have a town read on anybody. Maybe, grudgingly, Vezok.

It's not to say that I find everybody equally scummy or lynch worthy, but I wouldn't be surprised if anybody flips scum. Ugh.

"I don't have a townread on anyone, which means all options for lynching are open."

[elvis_knits]

GUYS

Amrun needs rope.

When somebody proposes a plan that has even half a chance of catching scum (and zero chance of hurting the town), you go along with it unless you're scum.

Mass claim could not have hurt the town. All it could have done was catch a stupid scum fake claiming a PR. If it didn't catch anybody, oh well, nothing lost. There was no reason not to do it.

AMRUN PEED ALL OVER MY SCUM TRAP.

She is scum. She needs rope. Kill her now, infinity, etc.

[elvis_knits]

Ek needs to explain a town read on snarky fast

All I see is you going after Snarky everyday with very little and weak reasons, which has made me increasingly suspicious of you. I feel like Snarky somehow became the scum whipping boy and easy target and whenever you are in trouble you default to vote snarky lolwagon.

This is the best I got out of you so far about snarky:

Overall, Snarky has displayed rolefishing, buddying to town to try and get out of a lynch, opportunism, and the big thing for me is when he displayed a guilty conscience about Ellibereth's death. That was basically admitting that he killed Elli, to me, but only Seacore seemed to pay attention to this besides me.

The rolefishing was forever ago and seems pretty weak to me at this point. The buddying, meh. Opportunism, meh. You'd have to show me what these were and why they were so bad. And I just think the Ellibereth thing was WTF, and maybe part of his fixation with zelink.

Overall, I just don't see your case, and I feel like you've been pushing this crappy case for days, and I think it's scummy to keep doing it without explaining yourself better or having better reasoning. I also think it's obvious you're scum now that you peed on my scumtrap, further cementing my feelings on your crappy snarky case.

[Lowell]

vote amrun

. I may be just an unfrozen caveman lawyer, but even I can tell calcifer is town.

[elvis_knits]

Looking over the live list, I don't have a town read on anybody. Maybe, grudgingly, Vezok.

It's not to say that I find everybody equally scummy or lynch worthy, but I wouldn't be surprised if anybody flips scum. Ugh.

Let's not get paranoid.

Vezok and Charlie/EPM are as good as confirmed town.

I tend to think you might be right about the Calcifer killed CKD stuff, but it's still a bit too WIFOMish for me. I do lean more toward you being right because I think scum eliminate their threats first and foremost, and CKD was mostly a threat to Calcifer and maybe lowell. Still, it's too WIFOM for me.

However, Calcifer calling Amrun town is pretty bad, IMO.

[Amrun]

I agree that I need to make a case on Snarky, but I find doing so extremely difficult without a computer.

Doing it on my phone seriously makes me want to muder something tiny.

I SHOULD have access to a computer tomorrow night for a little while. Should.

That isn't what I asked, though. I asked why you thought Snarky was TOWN.

Your intense protections of Snarky don't make any sense unless you're his mason or something or have a very good reason to think you're town.

I'm confused, though - you think the pro-town thing would be to abandon my scumread and lynch shinier things?

I apologize for peeing on your plan, and if I had taken time to think about it, I wouldn't have. The chance for catching scum was about 0, though, and in my opinion, anyone who spent two seconds thinking about the set up would come to the same conclusion I did.

There are few things I find more annoying than popcorn massclaims that only benefit scum.

[Altilysian]

and Calcifer feels so strongly about Seacore that he calls him confirmed scum. Does not compute.

Vote: Calcifer

You've never heard a townie use that kind of language? Honey, you need to get out more.

You're so confident that Seacore is scum based on weak and bad reasoning, unless you want to give us more reasons why Seacore is scum.

I thought Amrun was scummy in the beginning when she jumped on the Snarky wave. However, she was kept at it even when town opinion has moved on, which makes her continual suspicions less scummy to me. Snarky does seem like a "scum whipping boy" though.

Amrun's refusal to claim reads more like refusal to take part in what appeared to be a futile exercise.

[elvis_knits]

HOLY SHIT amrun, stop putting words in my mouth.

I never said Snarky is town. I never "protected snarky intensely," and I never said that you should abandon scum reads to lynch shinier things.

1)I'm not sure Snarky is town. All I know is that you keep pushing a wagon on him with no case, which is pretty fucking scummy. So my natural reaction is to feel like you are scummy and he is less so since you're a scummy player trying to bury him.

2)I'm not "protecting snarky intensely," I am calling YOU on not having a case on him, and asking you to explain yourself or stop trying to lynch him without a case.

3)I never said you, or anyone, should abandon scumreads. I think you should have a case and show it to us if you have a scum read. Otherwise it just looks like you're making shit up and I have to assume you're scum.

There are few things I find more annoying than popcorn massclaims that only benefit scum.

I have never heard of popcorn massclaims as benefiting scum. How could this one have benefited scum?

[elvis_knits]

Altilysian, can I get you to post reads on players. It need not be detailed or anything, just general feeling on where you see people.

[Snarky]

I shall put my vote where it has always belonged

vote:Amrum

[Snarky]

It's time for a list

scum: amrun, calc
maybe scum: seacore, lowell, vezok
town:ek, alty, charlie

[vezokpiraka]

unvote
vote calcifer

FOR GREAT JUSTICE.

[Amrun]

Ek: if you don't think Snarky is town, then you don't make sense.

I have detailed my suspicion of Snarky pretty thoroughly throughout 8 freaking game days. Not putting together a shiny case because I do all my shit from my black berry is not a scumtell and I am at a loss as to why you think it is.

I will try to make said pretty case if and when I can.

I know I had random computer access when this game was in night and I was like "damnit."

As much as I want snarky lynched, I don't care about mafia enough to give myself heartache losing huge posts on my phone. There just has to be a line drawn with how much I care about mafia.

I do look forward to being able to post with ease, though. It really makes things a lot better.

It won't be for a month or so.