Kids in the Hall Mafia - Game Over, Daves are Supreme

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB, how do you feel about Gurgi?

I feel that he is scum.

[Lurconis]

Also VOTE: Lord Gurgi as my last one was messed up

[Porochaz]

DGB, how do you feel about Gurgi?

I feel that he is scum.

Obviously but I was hoping you might expand.

[DrippingGoofball]

Because of this post:

People. I was high and drunk when I voted for Farside. My initial post was my first post. At this point I'm asking about theory. I don't see why early meta reads should be any less legitimate than other early reads. Isn't meta most useful when you have the least information from other sources?

I also feel that MBL is scum. He has 24 hours to make a good impression.

[Internet Stranger]

I thought I was going to have a hard time catching up, but seriously, thank you ladies for filling the first two pages with pure garbage that I could just skip over.
Make that three pages.
Make that four pages.
Make that five pages.

...Vollkan? No more bullshit number system?!?

Players that went after Scooby for making a good attempt to alienate scum: Umbrage, Vollkan
Opportunists: UT, Gurgi, Umbrage (again), Kison, Imaginality, DBG (again), pops (again), lurconis
Conversation Misdirectors: pops, Amrun, DBG
Spinning: Farside

Post Umbrage #193. I caught 4 of 7 scum doing this in Defcon 3.

Oh, there are those silly points. I was starting to worry, Vollkan.

Great, new wagon.

VP and DBG white knighting. They are acting from a standpoint of superiority.
Vollkan is looking awful for pops. Still wants Scooby over bullshit.

Now Scooby is like all over the place. You against the world, right Scooby? Time for REVENGE!!

Farside coming off as threading water again.

Wow, all these juicy posts in a row! (#269 - #273)
Here comes Umbrage calling for DBG's head. No opinion of pops? hmm
Kison, lots of hem and hawing, but at least questioning pops.
VP, ugly ugly defense of DBG, even if its a joke.
UT, lolwut?!?
Spyrex, blatant DBG defense

Gurgi, no opinion of pops

Farside, being Captain Obvious, really helpful.
Farside again, pinging that scumdar.

Poro vs Umbrage, looks... either silly and fake or egotastic

Great, game derailed, thanks Farside. Really. Also, clearly the genius choice of wasting a precious vig kill on someone that was going to be lynched anyways.
oh boy Farside, "I wanted to see the reaction". really?!? WOW

IS: God damn I wish I was here live for all of this nonsense!

And no one cares about the silly Farside gambit. Ridiculous.


I wasnt too sure on pops, but meh, the lynch was justified anyways.
Great, there goes farside.
Other than the double vote, Kison wasnt much use to the town anyways.

DBG, oh look opportunistic Umbrage vote to start the day. Great!

Scooby: "REVENGE!!!"

Poro has picked up the White Knight baton, excellent.

Elvis chimes in with the conspiracy theory.
Oh wait, DBG has to get a better one of her own in there instead.

Poro is like a sparkling white knight now. Holy shit man, get a grip!

Damn, I was hoping to be back before MBL, oh well.

Scooby wants BLOOD

Holy shit, was Poro knighted overnight or something? WTF is this?!?

"I feel that he is scum." Way to be a helper there, DBG.






Im caught up! yaay! This first one is going to be so easy. I really wanted to go after Farside, but this scumbag has been playing the opportunistic role all game. Letting others do the dirtywork for her. Really crappy cases on Scooby and pops, constant bullshit lists (I hate bullshit lists) and now employs the services of Mr Angry White Knight, Poro (I HATE white knights) in an attempt to railroad Umbrage in a late coming OMGUS strategy and no reasoning whatsover.

Vote: DBG

Time to die scum. This vote isnt going to change. Ever. I dont care if the fancy kitty army or whatever is called isnt happy. I dont care if Poro comes at the with the White Knight rage im expecting, but seriously, I have never read a game so closely before and DBG is seriously standing in the city square with a bullhorn SCREAMING about how scummy she is. DBGScum needs to hang, TODAY.

[Internet Stranger]

Because of this post:

People. I was high and drunk when I voted for Farside. My initial post was my first post. At this point I'm asking about theory. I don't see why early meta reads should be any less legitimate than other early reads. Isn't meta most useful when you have the least information from other sources?

I also feel that MBL is scum. He has 24 hours to make a good impression.

...MBL? or Gurgi?

[SpyreX]

Unvote, Vote: DGB

[Mist Beauty]

note to other players, school team stuff is catching up on me, and I've be away for 30 hours, sorry about this

a quick phne post(i've been skimming)

I'll be much more active when I come back and post my reads. Did we decide it was NK? Pretty surprised that no one protected kison during night phase, probably implies no one has the power? top of my list right now are gurgi, scooby, vpb, not too sure about vollkan. ek's vote is justified, but not cool.

scooby, why didn't you mention me under people who need to post more? AND VPBaltar did the same on 425. I definitely belonged on both lists, scum obviously (maybe)trying to accidently pretend I'm part of their team, and not draw attention to the lack of posts by mentioning me after discussion? Is this too paranoid/too centered around mememe? vpb didnt bus scooby in the beginning, was quick to attack pops at l-1 to save his scumbro, I saw some buddying on page 9. Less-I'm tempted to toss a vote at scooby due to all the associative tells we might get, but I'll check out the thread again when im back in case I royally messed up. prozac probably took some meds, he's not seeming drunk anymore. 4give and 4get bad grammar.

[Porochaz]

I agree but not in the same way.

[vollkan]

VP, how did you feel about vollkan's scooby vote?

I agree with you that it's scummy, but that's true of anyone that voted scooby over his poo poo theory. That entire scooby wagon was crap to me because it's just as possible for a townie to propose a dumb theory as it is a scum. Therefore, the people voting him over that theory are voting because he had a logical error rather than he actually did something scummy.

tl;dr - vollkan certainly is scummy to me along with several other people, it's just not as slam bang as I had perceived it yesterday.

Except, as I have raised twice now, I never said that I thought scooby's behaviour was a proper scumtell as opposed to something that was a legitimate object of early game pressure. In an early game where not much was (or is...really) leaping out as blatantly scummy, scooby's bad argument was a good place to apply pressure (even though I didn't think it was points-worthy)

and umbrage for his inexplicable whiteknighting...same as vollkan.

What does this even mean, beyond being a neat label?

My defence of pops was hardly "inexplicable". I just (as is my tendency) took a more sceptical/mistake-tolerant view than most other people. If I had agreed with you that his VC ignorance was unlikely as a mistake, I would have reached the same conclusion as you. But, instead, I stuck to Hanlon's Razor (never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity).

I absolutely disagree with LG - that wasn't a bad wagon. Pops went crazyface and I'll bet when it parses out that was more town than not on that choo choo train.

Despite my stance on pops himself, I largely agree with you in relation to the wagon. The reasons for suspecting pops were understandable, even though I personally didn't agree (ie. my criticism of the wagon is effectively one of theory, rather than seeing it as inherently opportunistic).

My reasoning on Lord G is for some of the reasons stated yesterday. His high vote and meta claim on farside then saying it was a joke. He then goes on to ask why early meta reads are bad and not legitimate. This to me suggest his meta read wasn't a joke but a fake claim. This behavior is contradictory which to me is scummy.

Lurconis+5

The "contradiction" (always a word that implies relatively serious scumminess) you are alleging is pretty much artificial. There's no difficulty in seeing him having a joke read, but then also, especially given the early game context, questioning people who attack him. Spinning this into any sort of inconsistency is simply disingenuous.

[VP Baltar]

Except, as I have raised twice now, I never said that I thought scooby's behaviour was a proper scumtell as opposed to something that was a legitimate object of early game pressure. In an early game where not much was (or is...really) leaping out as blatantly scummy, scooby's bad argument was a good place to apply pressure (even though I didn't think it was points-worthy)

So, for the record then, you don't find scooby scummy, you were just pressuring him at that time, correct?

The reasons for suspecting pops were understandable, even though I personally didn't agree (ie. my criticism of the wagon is effectively one of theory, rather than seeing it as inherently opportunistic).

This is pretty hard fence sitting if you ask me. Frankly, pops looked mega-scummy yesterday. I agree with Spyrex that there were probably lots of town on that wagon because pretty much everything he did was another bad move that would be opportunistic for a scum player. You were staunchly against that wagon yesterday, and now today you're saying 'well, gee, I was only talkin' bout some theory there' Seems like a soft back pedal from your stance yesterday.

[vollkan]

Except, as I have raised twice now, I never said that I thought scooby's behaviour was a proper scumtell as opposed to something that was a legitimate object of early game pressure. In an early game where not much was (or is...really) leaping out as blatantly scummy, scooby's bad argument was a good place to apply pressure (even though I didn't think it was points-worthy)

So, for the record then, you don't find scooby scummy, you were just pressuring him at that time, correct?

Yup.

The reasons for suspecting pops were understandable, even though I personally didn't agree (ie. my criticism of the wagon is effectively one of theory, rather than seeing it as inherently opportunistic).

This is pretty hard fence sitting if you ask me. Frankly, pops looked mega-scummy yesterday. I agree with Spyrex that there were probably lots of town on that wagon because pretty much everything he did was another bad move that would be opportunistic for a scum player. You were staunchly against that wagon yesterday, and now today you're saying 'well, gee, I was only talkin' bout some theory there' Seems like a soft back pedal from your stance yesterday.

Do you accept that being staunchly against a wagon on the basis that you don't think its subject is scummy is different from thinking that a wagon is scum-driven?

[VP Baltar]

Yup.

Seems like a bit of a waste if it was only pressure considering how much time you spent arguing for that yesterday. What did you learn out of your "pressure" there?

Do you accept that being staunchly against a wagon on the basis that you don't think its subject is scummy is different from thinking that a wagon is scum-driven?

This is news to me. You seemed to think I was super scummy yesterday for pushing the pops wagon. Considering I was one of the few people actually making substantial cases and such for it, I don't see how you're getting to the point now that it was town driven because that's what SpyreX said.

[DrippingGoofball]

Players that went after Scooby for making a good attempt to alienate scum: Umbrage, Vollkan
Opportunists: UT, Gurgi, Umbrage (again),

Kison

, Imaginality,

DBG

(again),

pops

(again), lurconis
Conversation Misdirectors:

pops

, Amrun,

DBG

Spinning:

Farside

Farside

coming off as threading water again.

Kison

, lots of hem and hawing, but at least questioning pops.
VP, ugly ugly defense of

DBG

, even if its a joke.
Spyrex, blatant

DBG

defense

Farside

, being Captain Obvious, really helpful.

Farside again

,

pinging that scumdar.

Great, game derailed, thanks

Farside

.

Great, there goes

farside

.

DBG

, oh look opportunistic Umbrage vote to start the day. Great!

Im caught up! yaay! This first one is going to be so easy.

I really wanted to go after

Farside

,

[DGB] =

Really crappy cases on

Scooby and

pops

,

Vollkan is looking awful for

pops

.

Still wants Scooby over bullshit.

>>>I wasnt too sure on

pops

, but meh, the lynch was justified anyways.<<<

...constant bullshit lists (I hate bullshit lists) and now employs the services of Mr Angry White Knight, Poro (I HATE white knights) in an attempt to railroad Umbrage in a late coming OMGUS strategy and no reasoning whatsover.

Vote:

DBG

General question:

When IS's reads suck eggs and he screams for the overdeath of dead townies, while deriding everyone else, while boasting of past success in some other game, is he scum, or is he town? How about when he himself declares the pops lynch justified, while railing against other players that thought the same?

[DrippingGoofball]

Unvote, Vote: DGB

SpyreX, you're either scum or an idiot. Pick.

IS is berating you for "blatant DGB defense."

And now you suck up to him and vote me?

You're scum, my friend.

[DrippingGoofball]

SpyreX has been accepted into the Cool Club.

Aw krap, so you're not SpyreX's buddy.

1 out of 2 ain't bad.

One of Umbrage and SpyreX is scum. Not both.

[elvis_knits]

Who gives a fuck, ek? Im sorry but its pretty clear he can name whoever he wants but there is absolutely no reasoning behind his choices. Otherwise we would have gotten a better case on scooby than "he did that thing with the player list when he said half were town and half were scum", that is not a case, that is an excuse for a vote.

In the event that you guys are just fighting with pork swords, I thought that I would try to appeal to him. It can't hurt. If he gives us more reads/info/discussion it would help me read him. If he's town, I want us to realize that. If he's scum I want him to dig his own grave.

[elvis_knits]

note to other players, school team stuff is catching up on me, and I've be away for 30 hours, sorry about this

a quick phne post(i've been skimming)

I'll be much more active when I come back and post my reads. Did we decide it was NK? Pretty surprised that no one protected kison during night phase, probably implies no one has the power? top of my list right now are gurgi, scooby, vpb, not too sure about vollkan. ek's vote is justified, but not cool.

scooby, why didn't you mention me under people who need to post more? AND VPBaltar did the same on 425. I definitely belonged on both lists, scum obviously (maybe)trying to accidently pretend I'm part of their team, and not draw attention to the lack of posts by mentioning me after discussion? Is this too paranoid/too centered around mememe? vpb didnt bus scooby in the beginning, was quick to attack pops at l-1 to save his scumbro, I saw some buddying on page 9. Less-I'm tempted to toss a vote at scooby due to all the associative tells we might get, but I'll check out the thread again when im back in case I royally messed up. prozac probably took some meds, he's not seeming drunk anymore. 4give and 4get bad grammar.

This post is full of fail.

Doc speculation = bad

Wondering why scooby and VP don't suspect him? That's really convoluted and pointless. "PEOPLE WHO DON'T SUSPECT ME MUST BE SCUM!!! But only two of you that don't suspect me must be scum! The rest of you I won't mention!!"

I don't really know what to do with this post. It's more fail than scummy. I'm trying to withhold any further judgement until I see like a normal post not from a phone.

[vollkan]

Yup.

Seems like a bit of a waste if it was only pressure considering how much time you spent arguing for that yesterday. What did you learn out of your "pressure" there?

I only had one post (177) in which I actually attacked/pressured/etc. scooby. The issue of the scooby wagon certainly came up in a number of posts, but it's simply not true that I devoted a great deal of time yesterday to pushing him.

Do you accept that being staunchly against a wagon on the basis that you don't think its subject is scummy is different from thinking that a wagon is scum-driven?

This is news to me. You seemed to think I was super scummy yesterday for pushing the pops wagon. Considering I was one of the few people actually making substantial cases and such for it, I don't see how you're getting to the point now that it was town driven because that's what SpyreX said.

Go back and look at where I assigned scumpoints to you.

lynch this scumbag now. gets a vanilla claim and suddenly the lynch is no good anymore? YOU MAY AS WELL CLAIM SCUM NOW.

Scumpoints time. VPB+5 Vote: VPB

Your argument here entirely ignores what pops said entirely and strawmans him to be saying "because scooby claimed vanilla, we shouldn't lynch him". That's very different from what it appears pops was doing, namely backing away from a rushed claim.

My problem with this wasn't that you were simply pushing the pops wagon. it was that you were attacking him simply on the basis of an assumption that pulling off a rushed lynch was scummy - purely on the basis that a vanilla claim had occurred.

(contrast that with the "refusal to accept mistake" line of reasoning adopted by the likes of Farside)

[elvis_knits]

General question:

When IS's reads suck eggs and he screams for the overdeath of dead townies, while deriding everyone else, while boasting of past success in some other game, is he scum, or is he town? How about when he himself declares the pops lynch justified, while railing against other players that thought the same?

I thought this too.

I have never read a game so closely before

Oh God.

That was some funny, funny shit. Thank you for the laugh.

Fuck.

I'm voting IS.

unvote mist beauty

VOTE: Internet Stranger

[VP Baltar]

I only had one post (177) in which I actually attacked/pressured/etc. scooby. The issue of the scooby wagon certainly came up in a number of posts, but it's simply not true that I devoted a great deal of time yesterday to pushing him.

so you talked about how bad he was repeatedly yesterday and argued with several people about his posts, but you weren't pushing the wagon. gtfo with your semantics and at least own up to your play.

re: your reason for voting me - that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying:

1) VP Baltar was one of the main contributors to that wagon
2) You thought VP Baltar was scummy
3) Today you say it wasn't a scum driven wagon
4) Number 3 does not compute with your own stated stances

Your reason for voting me is entirely irrelevant to that line of logic. I'd vote you now, but UT still needs to die.

[vollkan]

so you talked about how bad he was repeatedly yesterday and argued with several people about his posts, but you weren't pushing the wagon. gtfo with your semantics and at least own up to your play.

So because I make

one

post in which I apply early-game pressure to scooby (and don't give points), and then I make several other posts where I either make it clear that I don't suspect scooby and/or respond to questions asking me to clarify my position, I am "pushing his wagon"?

This isn't a semantic argument (though, kudos for employing a stereotype). You are, in fact not semantics, accusing me of doing something that I simply never did.

re: your reason for voting me - that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying:

1) VP Baltar was one of the main contributors to that wagon
2) You thought VP Baltar was scummy
3) Today you say it wasn't a scum driven wagon
4) Number 3 does not compute with your own stated stances

Your reason for voting me is entirely irrelevant to that line of logic.

You're alleging an inconsistency that simply isn't there. I've already explained why I don't think the reason for most people suspecting pops was scummy. The fact that there was a particular element of your attack on pops that I objected to doesn't make the entire wagon guilty by association.

[Internet Stranger]

Ahh yes the derisive defense, bravo DBG, bravo! Its cute to see scum pulling out classic defenses like those. You think you or Elvis can simply dismiss me and send me on my way? What kind of Jedi Mind Trick bullshit is that?

You completely ignored my very awesome points of your attacks on Umbrage
You completely ignored my very awesome points of your globbing onto Scooby in his moment of weakness.
You completely ignored my very awesome points of your buddying to Mr White Knight, Poro.
You completely ignored my very awesome points as to how constantly updating lists of suspects is the work of the devil; and of scum.


But hey, its a lot of easier to try to simply dismiss me attack Spyrex instead, right? My god woman, did you think that was going to work? Do you think im just going to turn tail and walk away. I got me a DBGScum pegged, you wont be getting rid of me so easy.

Im curious to know why Elvis is all up on my shit while completely ignoring the evils of DBG as well. If she wasnt totally invisible to me while I was reading the game that would so totally be a scummy lolVote right there.

[elvis_knits]

I have never read a game so closely before

Yet most of your post was nonsense scumreads on dead town players. BRAVO! Good job looking like you're contributing. I also don't know why you hate Prozac. You put almost every player in the game down. Maybe it's so that we realize that we are dumb and bad at mafia, you are our savior here to lead us to victory and follow your genius reads like robots?

Also, I was trying not to be so obvious, but apparently you are quite dense.

DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town.
DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town.
DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town.
DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town.
DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town.
DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town.
DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town.
DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town.
DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town.
DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town. DGB is town.

[Internet Stranger]

Whos putting down who here, Elvis? You and the DBGScum are the ones ignoring my case. You and DBGScum are off on some random tangent and ignoring my points on DBGScum simply because you dont want to face them. Im playing mafia and making solid mafia points, youre going the ad hominem route and advocating some Femme Club scene.

So whos fooling who here?