Toy Story Mafia (Day 9)

[petroleumjelly]

Thanks for playing, all. Definitely a frustrating game on multiple levels.

Also, my "tip" to Ranmaru: don't lie as Town.

[SpyreX]

Also, my "tip" to Ranmaru: don't lie as Town.

FANCY THAT

----

PJ I'm seriously impressed. You played a solid game and replaced a slot I wanted dead.

Just somehow along the way you managed to throw enough chaff into the fire you could keep from getting burned.

[glowball]

My lie lynched scum and I am proud of it. I wasn't even lynched because of it, I was night killed. I think there's a line to tread, but I would say lying as PR is more detrimental. I didn't mind sticking out as a simple vanilla townie.

[SpyreX]

Yea your lie really got that wagon all the way up there all by itself. Made all that happen. Sent bolts from the sky down to evaporate umbrage.

What it did do though was guarantee you were ignored. And guaranteed you wouldn't be at endgame. I'm honestly surprised that scum killed you.

[Bogre]

Also, my "tip" to Ranmaru: don't lie as Town.

FANCY THAT

----

PJ I'm seriously impressed. You played a solid game and replaced a slot I wanted dead.

Just somehow along the way you managed to throw enough chaff into the fire you could keep from getting burned.

Indeed, good job PJ. I was suspicious, though, because he seemed too eager to be protown when replacing Nacho.

Was a fun game to watch, sad I didn't get to make it past night 1. Good job to diddin and FA and all the deaders for a good game played.

[glowball]

Yea your lie really got that wagon all the way up there all by itself. Made all that happen. Sent bolts from the sky down to evaporate umbrage.

What it did do though was guarantee you were ignored. And guaranteed you wouldn't be at endgame. I'm honestly surprised that scum killed you.

EXACTLY

I didn't need to endgame. That isn't my goal when I am vanilla and YEAH MY PERSISTENCE that Umbrage was scum got that wagon up there, if it was up to you guys he wouldn't have been lynched. It was like pulling teeth. Given the fact that it was OBVIOUS I was semi compromised why wouldn't you look into my suspects more? If you are surprised scum killed me, you'd owe it to yourself and to the game to rise above holding a petty grudge and use all of the information at your disposal to win!

I love how the arrogance loses the game, yet the blame is on everyone else instead of owning up to their poor scum hunting.

[SpyreX]

I wish I lived in this world.

You know who you fought tooth and nail to STOP from getting lynched D1? You remember that?

The scum that won the game.

The one that should have NEVER had a chance to have a replacement.

Umbrage after D1 was a dead man walking but OHH NO he's a huge threat and herpadearp.

Now it wasn't perfect since I had a scum in my list of 7 town that I couldn't pull together and move in a single direction because off the top of my head you, forseen, bobs, fa, deathnote and god knows who else decided lying is super tech and we had a miller steal one prize, a replacement take one upon entering from a mason (sorry Juls I have nothin but love but seriously now) and not getting the third one based on some kind of power fear tactics?

Then we have our other JOAT just quit playing. And apparently on drugs when explaining how the roles all connected.

Rainbow played a good game. Farside played a good game. PJ played an excellent game.

[glowball]

Me: but, but spyrex these are the scumz!

SpyreX: la la la la, I'm better than you at this so your reads don't matter

* I lie and lynch scum*

Me: But, but see! He was scumz, obviously I am pretty good at reading people?

SpyreX: la la la, you're still stupid

* I DIE AND AM NOW

CONFIRMED TOWN

*

Ghost Me: They will avenge me, they are all sooooooo experienced they claim to know what they are doing

SpyreX: la la la, I'm just going to ignore this kill and all of the information that you can pull from a confirmed townie. I am not even going to follow up on it in the slightest because I am so much better at this than she is. la la la

*We lose*

Me: OMG guys! For SRS?!

SpyreX: la la la la, it has nothing to do with the fact that I am terribad at this game because I am an arrogant prick who is extremely close minded and doesn't use all the information when scum hunting. It's everyone else's fault because they don't play the way I like. WAH WAH WAH, I cannot handle players that don't live up to my expectations of what town should be. la la la la, not my fault at all.

[SpyreX]

I actually had a lot of words written and then decided against it. If thinking I'm a close minded arrogant prick helps you sleep at night and think your play is good and/or worth emulating more power to you.

Grats again PJ. You fought against some tough odds even if you had some help along the way.

[Beck]

GG mafia, I was following along even after I replaced out

[Oversoul]

I don't understand how you let DJ's replacement live for so long. DJ's Day 1 play was horrible as hell, especially with the Jmurph connection.

Congratulations to PJ who won a seemingly impossible victory, but seriously guys.

[Juls]

I made a mistake with the prize and admitted it but at the end of the day, diddin having it would have been useless as he never would have been lynched. Also, I did get suspicious of the masons both staying alive so long after the claim and the neighbor vigs flipping was an unnecessary limitation to an already hard role. They should have flipped town. Lots of things I did poorly ( but not scummy) this game but I seriously have NO IDEA why I was lynched. I was begging for someone to make a case on me and no one would. I think it was pretty obvious that I was town. I think I made the right decision in not shooting even if I had shot one of the scum. I was too unsure to end the game at that point. It's been a really rough few games for me in a row so I'm really bummed this one ended the way it did.

[RandomActs]

Goodbye, Jessie. Bullseye will miss you...

Really, Jmurph?

REALLY??

Oh the heartbreak!

Seriously, though I joined the game at page 88. I spent days reading through the early game. It was fascinating and painful. (Still shaking my head over Fourseen's "bored vanilla townie" stunt.) Then after all that reading I got NK'ed without ever getting to post. (Thanks Rainbow grrrrr.) Thankfully another slot was open, a better one I think, since most folks thought Kendall was town, and I even had a cop result to share.

I read the early game knowing the result of the Umbrage lynch, and at the risk of inflating her ego even further, I was seriously impressed at glowball's performance. Knowing Umbrage's alignment as I read probably tainted my impressions, but they are what they are. Well done, m'lady.

I thought the neighbor alignment I was in was odd. Why was "Bulleye" the lynchpin? Why coudn't I neighborize with Woody myself? I think it's clear now it was for game balance. Jmurph could hear the private thoughts of two power roles on the town side, and neither FA nor I could confer directly. We had to go through Jmurph or post in the thread. And I swallowed the Bullseye safeclaim hook, line and sinker. It was only when I was dead and Jmurph was making up our conversations that I knew she was scum. If I hadn't specifically flipped as a "2 shot" cop, I'm sure she would have passed on some bogus cop result from me.

[NanookTheWolf]

Congratulations scum team, PJ particularly.

Wish I could have done more in the game, it was a pleasure playing with everyone.

[petroleumjelly]

Oh, insomnia. Might as well make a few comments since sleep is eluding me:

1.)

It's probably somewhat difficult to appreciate from those who were Town, but playing this game as scum felt like trying to swim up a waterfall. You will notice that of the 19 non-mafia players, we (the mafia) eventually had to lynch or get the town to misvig 11 of them just to win. In other words, we had to get the town to kill over half of its members. And given that the town was packed with (1 & 2) the two most recognizable characters -- Buzz and Woody -- each being 3-Shot JOATS, (3 & 4) two Masons, (5 & 6 & 7) a 3-Man Vigilante group, (8) 2-Shot Cop, (9) Watcher, (10) Jailkeeper, and a (11) an Odd-Night Hider, we obviously had our work cut out for us. We

absolutely

needed the "gifts" the Town gave us (i.e., FourseenCircumstance's fake-claim, DeathNote's fake-claim, and I at least hope that FlavourAnalysis' fake-claim bit him in the ass in the end, too).

By Night Four of the game (after which there were 10 dead players, only one of which as Mafia), I had pretty much mapped out the game in several variations in the scum QT, and because of the Vigilante group our

best

endgame scenarios were pretty much trying to get jmurph3 in the final three along with a Mason. Although I love killing me some Masons, we simply could not

afford

to kill Masons with so many other roles floating around.

Of course, we were unaware that the Cop was 2-Shot and the Vigilantes lost their kill once reduced to a single member, but we literally reached a point where we decided it was better to not even try to keep our strongest role (the Strongblocker) alive because doing so meant holding off trying to get a Vigilante lynched / vengekilled by Juls. Not that that ever

happened

. *grumble*

2.)

I feel like I need to specifically talk about the Juls scenario. Everything this town did with Juls was very wrong.

->

a.)

If you honestly thought Juls was scum, your best bet was to nightkill her after the Strongblocker died (although I can see an argument that perhaps there was a Mafia Doctor). After all, if Juls was scum with a vengeful ability, lynching her just lets scum kill off the most bothersome of town roles.

->

b.)

If there was a question about Juls being scum, she should have been left alive as long as possible. I was

very

serious when I said that leaving alive vengeful roles is better for town than lynching them early. In fact, I was kicking myself for pointing this out. Consider the following scenarios:

Scenario #1

: 5 players alive, 2 scum. Lynch Juls. If she is Town, the game is lost, because even if she kills correctly, the scum will nightkill and the game will be left with two players.

Scenario #2

: 5 players alive, 2 scum. Lynch Player A, scum. Scum kill Player B. Next day, lynch Juls. If she is Town, her kill can still win the game.

Essentially, scum

could not

afford to allow Juls to live until endgame because it gives Town one final kill that is practically sure to hit scum. And so lynching Juls with 7 alive was really quite shameful. Had this town realized this and acted on it, I can pretty much guarantee scum would have lost this game.

I felt especially bad lynching Juls -- not only because I knew it was strategically unsound, but because her posts really screamed "Town" to me. I also very much disagree with the players who were calling her stupid. Consider the game from her standpoint:

She is a vanilla townie. Upon mass-claim, there are apparently 2 Masons, 3 Neighbor-Vigs, and 3-Woody's-Round-Up-Neighbors. From her perspective, the Woody's Round-Up players seem like they are Town, and that means there pretty much

must

be something wrong with one of the two other groups. Had I been Town, I probably would have been ridiculously paranoid about this exact possibility. After all, there was

nothing

in this game that

actually

"confirmed" the Masons except for the Masons themselves. It's easy to criticize somebody's play when

you

have your own separate information to work with (for example, diddin happened to know he was Town with SpyreX; Juls, however, was not privy to this information), but that doesn't mean your criticism is entirely justified.

3.)

On glowball:

First, your counterclaim did not get Umbrage lynched, nor was it in any way necessary or justified. FourseenCircumstances had already "counterclaimed" the Watcher aspect of the claim, which was more than enough to assure that Umbrage was lynched. As it is, I doubt even FourseenCircumstance's "counter" was even necessary to get Umbrage lynched.

Second, the only thing you likely did was completely mislead the entire town (along with FourseenCircumstances) about what nightchoices were best to make on Night One. I (as Mafia) figured you were probably a Serial Killer at that point, but we didn't even bother to role-block you. In fact, when you retracted your claim on Day Two, I pretty much decided you were vanilla town when I discovered the game where you pulled something similar as a Townie.

Third, although your scumhunting turned out to be quite accurate, you tanked your own credibility (i) by your completely unnecessary lie, and (ii) your attitude. Catching scum is only half the game; the other half is getting people to listen to you. As it is, we (the Mafia) pretty much set out to completely ignore you because I (correctly) figured that you were just going to rub people the wrong way.

Fourth, acting like everybody should have listened to you once you became "confirmed Town" is rather ridiculous. For example, what would have happened had the Town blindly followed Juls (sorry to use you as an example here, Juls) after she became "confirmed Town" upon being lynched? Her dying words were to lynch one of the Masons. Which, as you can see, would not have turned out well.

Players die all the time in mafia games. Some players are going to turn out to have been on the right track; others are going to turn out to be on the wrong track. Just because you were on the right track in

this

game does not justify you call other players narrowminded or stupid for not following your death wishes.

4.)

In any case, thanks for the kind words, all.

[Ranmaru]

Ugh. In the future, I'm just going to full claim. Fuck it.

Anyways, good games.

[Scott Brosius]

n1

Aliens

Rainbowdash claws Bogre
Snakeside claws Bogre
Nanook claws Bogre (actually claws)



jmurph neighborizes Ray Montano (no result)
Bogre jails Beefster
chkflip blocks PeregrineV
PeregrineV protects Fourseen (fails- blocked)
Flavor Analysis kills SodaSpirit
Nanook claws Bogre
Opposed Force kills bobsnox (fails 1-shot BP)
inhim investigates chkflip (guilty)
bobsnox tracks Ray Montano (nowhere)
DeathNote watches glowball (nobody visits)


n2

Aliens
RainbowDash claws Nanook (actually claws---fails jailed)
farside claws Nanook
Nanook claws bobsnox

jmurph neighborizes Flavour Analysis (successful---Woody)
Flavour Analysis jails Rainbowdash
chkflip roleblocks bobsnox
PJ kills glowball
DeathNote watches SpyreX (nobody visits)
inhim investgiates mikehart (innocent)

n3
Aliens
Rainbowdash claws mikehart (actually claws)
farside claws Blonde Doctor
Nanook claws Blonde Doctor

TheJakalope hides behind bobsnox
bobsnox kills Oversoul
kunkstar kills TheJakalope
BlondeDoctor watches Rainbowdash (nobody visits)

n4
Rainbowdash claws Blonde Doctor (actually claws)
farside claws kunkstar
Nanook claws kunkstar

n5

rainbowdash claws peregrine
nanook claws peregrine

The rest were just scum NKs. Most of the night actions were done by N3 anyway besides the Aliens kill.

I had no idea how the Aliens would work out. I'm not sure if claiming that early was a good idea, especially as after D3, they were essentially the only threat to the town. Wasn't sure how it would get balanced either, but I did figure they would eventually realize that the WC would be nearly impossible if one of the three was scum. The only way that would be possible is if there was a SK in the Aliens that couldn't shoot them or something like that. I think allowing scum to daytalk with 2 town players who have a vigkill would have been impossible. I thought it was a fun role, and while difficult, they did pretty well with it I felt.

I let the Strongman kill the Hider. I realize with NAR he hides first, and I couldn't find any previous example of it, but the way I worded the PMs, I felt like I had to allow it.

I was somewhat afraid the two 3-shot JOATs would somewhat confirm each other, but once they started lying, quite the opposite happened.

Anyway this was quite painful to mod. The rampant lying, the inordinate amount of replacements and that excruciatingly long first day were not fun as a viewer or mod. The game did get better after D2 or so.

I HATE EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU

oh and
jmurph
chkflip
petroleumjelly
Blonde Doctor

are all scumz- just think about that going into night...

btw... I died the night directly following this post and there was absolutely NO follow up.

I'm honestly surprised that scum killed you.

Well there's this. chkflip PMed me saying that glowball was his ex-gf and that he had logged onto her computer a few times and probably his login details were still there. There's obviously no actual proof of cheating but correctly knowing the exact amount of scum left, who exactly those scum are, being willing to counterclaim Bo Peep (which Umbrage brought up in the mafia QT pre-game) all looks pretty damn suspicious in light of that. Especially flaunting it constantly in the Dead QT and remaining staunch on the jmurph read for a few days when there was no way that anyone should suspect him. So this annoyed me greatly too. I'm sure glow will defend herself to the death, but there is something definitely fishy going on here.

Most of the complete newbs didn't flake which I appreciated. Thanks for playing/replacing to all.

[Scott Brosius]

Alien QT

http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/sAiQh9yNRukg

Mason QT

http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/eF4jxHegTK5

Dead QT

http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/sbY7cXhsyTR9

Leaving it up to scum to post theirs

[TheJakalope]

Bob, why didn't you come out as JOAT, the minute I said I was going to hide behind you? It just cost the town 2 PR's in the end.

[chkflip]

gg team, sorry I couldn't follow it to the end.

[Juls]

Yeah, glowballs arrogance makes sense now. To the blacklist she goes.

[SodaSpirit17]

Dammit!!!! Flavour whyyyy did you shoot me D: good job PJ. Wish we coulda won. Coulda woulda shoulda... didn't.

[Ranmaru]

I'm sorry Soda. : [ I thought you were scum... Forgive me? :3

[SodaSpirit17]

I forgive! Forgive me for my stupidity, and we'll be good I suppose!

[Ranmaru]

Sure, no prob. Just make sure to learn from you mistakes. : P (And I will learn from mine as well, as I have made many)