Mini 1316 - Last Will Mafia IV (Over)

[Rhinox]

/prod dodge and notice that

I will be V/LA Thursday Night to Monday Morning this coming weekend

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

DDD, you have left your vote on nacho for being on cruise control yet you haven't really pressured any of his recent posts or actions...?

Hey guys Nacho is still totally doing nothing useful; maybe he'd start doing something useful or at very least we'd lynch scum if ya'll voted him as well!!!

[funkybike1]

Prod dodge.

[Lastsurvivor]

It's kinda making me sad that all the centers of attention are posting prod dodges or are otherwise absent. I wish Malee's replacement would show up soon, but there are like 20 replacements needed for games. Le sigh.

Anyway.

All those who have recently posted "Prod dodge": I want a reads list in your next post of at least five players. You must find at least two of those players scummy.

GO!

[Rhinox]

All those who have recently posted "Prod dodge": I want a reads list in your next post of at least five players. You must find at least two of those players scummy.

I think I've given enough reads in my posts already to satisfy your demand. I see no point in repeating them in a list. If you're looking for a talking point, then just iso through my posts and you can let me know if you agree or disagree with any of them. No one has had anything to say about my reads when I originally posted them, so I don't believe I have an obligation to placate you with a list now.

[hiplop]

VOTE: Nachomama

die scum die

[LlamaFluff]

Vote Count

funkybike1 (3) - kortul, Sleepless Assassin, Alicewondering
Malee (3) - fishythefish, Vincent2128, Lastsurvivor
nachomamma8 (2) - Debonair Danny DiPietro, hiplop
Alicewondering (2) - nachomamma8, rhinox
rhinox (1) - 4nxi3ty

Not Voting (2) - funkybike1, Malee

With 13 votes in play it takes 7 to lynch
Deadline is April 4th, 7PM PST

[Rhinox]

I don't vote for people replacing out.

Why not? Are scummy players no longer scummy once they replace out?

P.edit: already kinda addressed by SA:

Alice, what makes replacing out a town tell? Once replaced, would you be willing to vote a player based on Malee's play?

Sorry, when did I ever say replacing out is a town tell? I only remember saying that Malee is still my primary scumread. Yes, I would be willing to vote a player based on Malee's play, but I certainly would take into account the replacement's play.

Reading this, even though Malee is your primary scum read, you must not feel very strongly in that convinction. If Malee is scum, does it matter what the replacement has to say?


I'm not a fan of hiplop #214. It has a bit of that "cheeky scum" feel to it, to borrow a term from fate. Basically it just seems like he's using sarcasm to avoid playing seriously.

DDD and Rhinox are scum, imo.

Why am I scum?

tl;dr version: Holy shit, 4n slipped under my radar and is obvscumbuddy with Bike. Malee is now town because 4n/malee are obvnotbuddies.

I keep catching myself wanting to think that 4n is the "scum flying under everyone's radar", but everytime I go to iso him, I just don't see it and I find myself agreeing a lot with things he's saying. I also don't see a connection between 4n and bike.

unvote, vote: Rhinox
inb4"OMG He Voted Without Providing An EXPLANATION"

Ok I'll bite. why?

And why the need to draw attention to yet provide sarcasm to brush off voting without an explanation?
p.edit: I see you already kinda addressed this in post #225, so. mmmkay.

People dont just have a preset plan for the game, it makex no sense.

This seems like an idealist viewpoint. However, some players do consciously plan to play certain ways. Do you think players like Fate (jeez why do I keep thinking about Fate today) are REALLY ANGRY AND PISSED OFF ALL THE TIME AND THATS WHY THEY POST IN CAPS? No, its because its a predetermined playstyle they choose to do.

DDD, you have left your vote on nacho for being on cruise control yet you haven't really pressured any of his recent posts or actions...?

Hey guys Nacho is still totally doing nothing useful; maybe he'd start doing something useful or at very least we'd lynch scum if ya'll voted him as well!!!

This post is starting to give me the impression you're a lyncher with nacho as a target. You haven't done anything the whole game except ride this minor "nacho is on cruise control" point, but I see you as being as equally on cruise control.

You still haven't expanded on the vague accusations you made towards me that I asked you about here

VOTE: Nachomama

die scum die

Why change your vote now?

[Lastsurvivor]

@Rhinox: Your catch up post has placated my hungry wolf desire for content.
@Hip: I mirror Rhinox's last question to you.

People who still need to placate my hungry wolf desire for content via a reads list/catch up post/preferably both: Vincent, Funky, Malee's replacement

But let's be honest, Funky's catch up post would be a reread of the entire thread.

Speaking of that....

SPRINGBOARD

Does anyone find the fact that Funky clearly doesn't read the thread scummy? I'll answer when others answer.

[Fishythefish]

@mod:

are you looking for a replacement for Malee? I haven't see you mention it anywhere.

~I have been looking for a replacement and at this point am contacting other mods directly and willing to cross replace if you know any games that need it.

@LS: not on its own. But his posting looks like he's picking out little things that are easy to make stand-alone comments on, which feels more like forced content than any kind of scumhunting.

@funky

: if you don't answer these questions in your next post, I will vote for you:

@funky:
- Why did you think Nacho was scum?
- Where is his "decent explanation for his behaviour"?

[hiplop]

rhinox said he was disappearing, nacho wagon gained a player/he became more interesting to you folk

@voting nacho

Why am I scum?

Read back. Been accused of saying it too many times already granted altest post seems genuine, still more scum than town

This seems like an idealist viewpoint. However, some players do consciously plan to play certain ways. Do you think players like Fate (jeez why do I keep thinking about Fate today) are REALLY ANGRY AND PISSED OFF ALL THE TIME AND THATS WHY THEY POST IN CAPS? No, its because its a predetermined playstyle they choose to do.

All rules have exceptions, was raised on english...gained this moral

[Alicewondering]

@Rhinox: It doesn't make anyone less scummy if they're replacing out, as I said before. But I almost always unvote when someone replaces out--it's a matter of style. Sometimes I've misread people because I've mistaken playstyle for scummy behavior, and I'd at least like to see what a replacement has to say. It's more information to form a read on.

rhinox said he was disappearing, nacho wagon gained a player/he became more interesting to you folk

Hmmm. Not really liking this explanation, but I'll have to go back and reread a few things.

You haven't done anything the whole game except ride this minor "nacho is on cruise control" point, but I see you as being as equally on cruise control.

I like this point.

[hiplop]

alice i have been pretty clear in saying nacho/rhinox are likely both scum. Fine with either's death. More steam/less active pursuit = vote nacho

[Vincent2128]

placate my hungry wolf desire for content via a reads list/catch up post/preferably both: Vincent, Funky, Malee's replacement

Food for thought here.

Leaning Town

Sleepless Assassin - I like his style of...I guess you could call it questioning everything posted. It's showing an in-depthness I don't see scum pulling off.
Rhinox - A little shaky at the start, but I can say with more confidence now that Rhinox is town. He's pretty much commented on everything and made his intentions clear.
kortul - His activity and discussion reads town to me.

Leaning Scum

Malee - For reasons explained before when voting Malee
funkybike1 - To reiterate: Not properly commenting/reading the thread, not responding to accusations, not responding to questions, etc. etc. etc. I don't see funky as possibly anything other than illogical town or lazy scum.

Neutral

Nacho - I don't know what exactly to make of his playstyle 'change', as I don't know his meta. Nothing else seems inherently scummy - yet.

You dont get my point. I agree with you, which is why nacho is scummy. People dont just have a preset plan for the game, it makex no sense. Nacho defended his actions with saying he has a new strategy, so essentially its a useless excuse, and hes scum

Still not sure what this post is supposed to mean.
Everybody else - Nothing from their posts stand out to me.

[LlamaFluff]

theomoaner replaces Malee

[theomoaner]

Morning all. Will take a while to read through and then post my thoughts, probably tonight now.

[Rhinox]

Does anyone find the fact that Funky clearly doesn't read the thread scummy? I'll answer when others answer.

I think funky does read the thread, he just only comments on what he wants to, doesn't care what anyone demands of him, and doesn't care if people find him scummy for it. I don't think funky is scummy, I think if you actually read what he is saying, he's been making some decent points.

rhinox said he was disappearing, nacho wagon gained a player/he became more interesting to you folk

I said I was going to be away for 3 days.

Read back. Been accused of saying it too many times already granted altest post seems genuine, still more scum than town

I did read back. The only thing I see is that you think my one big post early in the game was scum trying to look like a townie. Is there anything else?

All rules have exceptions, was raised on english...gained this moral

Then why make a definitive "nobody but scum have playstyles" statements? How do you know nacho isn't an exception to your rule?

alice i have been pretty clear in saying nacho/rhinox are likely both scum. Fine with either's death. More steam/less active pursuit = vote nacho

You're posts tell me you're most sure that I'm scum, but you're voting nacho now because there is more support and its easier to get him lynched. You even said not too long back that DDD might be scum instead of Nacho - what changed your mind there? This looks like textbook scum going with the flow to blend in with the most townies.

unvote, vote hiplop

@Rhinox: It doesn't make anyone less scummy if they're replacing out, as I said before. But I almost always unvote when someone replaces out--it's a matter of style. Sometimes I've misread people because I've mistaken playstyle for scummy behavior, and I'd at least like to see what a replacement has to say. It's more information to form a read on.

ok, I'm starting to see that this is more a theory disagreement, than you being scum. But I do have one more question. Do you think a replacement provides more/better information if they aren't under any pressure, or if they immediately have to face a bandwagon full of voters who found their predecessor scummy?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

VOTE: Nachomama

die scum die

Double plus good.

This looks like textbook scum going with the flow to blend in with the most townies.

What flow? It's not like he jumped one of the "big" three person bandwagons, he voted for Nacho which couldn't even be described as a wagon until his vote.

[Rhinox]

He said himself that he was voting for nacho because it was a more viable lynch with more support.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

He said himself that he was voting for nacho because it was a more viable lynch with more support.

And that shouldn't be a consideration at all? It's not as if he tossed aside everything he said perviously to take an easy lynch; he simply moved within his own suspicions to a wagon that might actually flourish.

[Sleepless Assassin]

A week from deadline, I have no problem with someone switching a vote to a more likely lynch. Not that I can really see Nacho being lynched today. Stranger things have happened though.

[Rhinox]

He said himself that he was voting for nacho because it was a more viable lynch with more support.

And that shouldn't be a consideration at all? It's not as if he tossed aside everything he said perviously to take an easy lynch; he simply moved within his own suspicions to a wagon that might actually flourish.

Not when he is sure I'm scum, and he's been waffling back and forth over which of you or nacho is my partner.

[hiplop]

You're posts tell me you're most sure that I'm scum, but you're voting nacho now because there is more support and its easier to get him lynched. You even said not too long back that DDD might be scum instead of Nacho - what changed your mind there? This looks like textbook scum going with the flow to blend in with the most townies.

Sigh.

You, and nacho are about equal in my books. Can you really not grasp basic connotation? I used "maybe even DDD"...because my only thought on him is hes kinda lurky.

Double plus good.

Hopefully he will be an Unperson soon, eh Obrien?

Not when he is sure I'm scum, and he's been waffling back and forth over which of you or nacho is my partner.

ffs, i've said like 5 times you two are equal.

I said I was going to be away for 3 days.

Nice observation? I figured you were actual going to leave, not randomly become active?



Essentially rhinox's points are based on his lack of comprehension, i can't fucking reply to lack of competence

Then why make a definitive "nobody but scum have playstyles" statements? How do you know nacho isn't an exception to your rule?

CAN YOU REALLY NOT UNDERSTAND THIS? take a deep breath, and read back. I'm against him for using that as a *defense*, not for having a playstyle.

[theomoaner]

Ok. I've now managed to wade through the thread and (amongst others)->

That said, her successor has got some work to do and they better give me that reads list.

Happy to oblige, but first: My predecessor has certainly left me in a big pile of poop, but I have to say that had I been reading this as a neutral I would have found it all to be very a very forced case (although I didn't read it a a neutral so I could well be biased).

Why?

Good thing about this crash is that there ain't no proof of me flaking (I was genuinely overwhelmed and was under medication, couldn't concentrate enough, and oh god there were tons of walls in that game). That's why I'm taking it easy now with games, so I don't have to flake again.

This was followed, obviously, by a site wide flake. I believe that the entire attitude and gameplay of Malee was that of someone who wanted to take part in something they enjoy but were not quite up to it for health reasons, and this showed in her posts.

Here are my reads, that was a long trawl through the thread so I almost certainly have missed things, and apologies, it is out of necessity a wall, and it will repeat a lot of what has already been said (otherwise my reads could be called baseless).

Fishy:

IIoA: Think about your last will, particularly at night. It's really, really important that votes go to townies.

I found this to be seriously off It reads as an attempt to claim "I'm town" in his first post, but that said, I feel most of his posts after this come across as town, until...

Malee flaking sucks. I really wanted her explanation, and now instead I just have an unsatisfying suspicion on someone who won't be able to explain anything. Maybe we should just lynch her.

WTF. You're suggesting lynching her before a replacement is found?

FoS

, man.

Only semi-seriously. I'd genuinely be up for lynching her - I think she's very scummy, and that her actions will be totally forgotten once someone replaces her - but I know there's no chance of that actually happening. It's fairly hard to persuade people when part of your argument is that they are about to do something stupid.

It feels like a call for a quick lynch on Malee (from now on Me, as I'm in that slot now) watered down with a vague sentiment of dissatisfaction.

Overall I'm reading null on Fishy because these two post leave a bad taste, otherwise I'd think town.

Nacho:

I really can't get a read here. I'm seeing lots of questions and the odd point being made but I'm not sure if they constitute actual scum hunting. I'm just not getting it at all.

Rhinox:

Town: Post #54 just screams town, to me, and I've seen nothing that really changes that opinion.

SA:

Leaning scum:

vote fish for being scum with malee.

I always find votes with no explanation to be a little suspicious, and when an explanation does appear its a little light, though I can buy the phone excuse, I hate posting from my phone. The case against Fishy is firmed up a little later but it still feels a bit forced.

Another thing that stands out is

Alice, what makes replacing out a town tell? Once replaced, would you be willing to vote a player based on Malee's play?

Followed by #216 both posts are pushing for Alice to stay on the wagon on me but then, four posts later

-Malee is town just because 4n is scum and they aren't scum together. If I'm wrong on 4n, Malee can still be scum, but I'm confident enough to drop the Malee suspicion for now. (Whoever told me to pick between Bike and Malee should be happy lol)

the very person he was trying to keep a wagon on is town. It feels like an attempt to join another wagon as the one he is on dies down.

4nxi3ty:

Null: I'm not a big fan of meta-gaming but he's playing the same as he did in my first game on this site which he IC'd, He was town then. I'm feeling he's town here, but I'm not sure.

Last:

Strongly Town: He is the only player in the game who seems to be actively devoted to scum hunting.

Hiplop:

Coming over as slightly scummy mainly because of the wavering around on votes / who he thinks is scummy.

Alice:

Probably town.

Kortul:

Leaning town, but as a fellow replacee there is still less to go with than others but what there is feels like town scumhunting.

DDD:

Leaning scum, seems to be willing to leave his vote on Nacho without adding pressure to it with questions, and I don't like the recent what appears to be a defense /buddying of Hiplop

Vincent:

Null read, I need to look at him again.

Funky:

Just not enough to go on. Not many posts, and what there are don't seem to add much to the game.

That's it for now, they got shorter as I went along but I'm getting tired now so... I need to read through again and will possibly revise some of my reads over the next couple of days, unless I'm lynched of course.

[Rhinox]

Nice adhom in #272. I'm on the right track then.

You, and nacho are about equal in my books. Can you really not grasp basic connotation? I used "maybe even DDD"...because my only thought on him is hes kinda lurky.

I'm refering to this:

DDD and Rhinox are scum, imo. Maybe even Nachomama instead of DDD.

Nacho is doing what every player who has been "Scum-meta'd" does, "CHANGE THEIR PLAYSTYLE" in heavy air quotes (its more fashionable that way). And quite bluntly, I see a connection between rhinox and nacho. DDD feels independently scummy, some for his lurking, some for his actual posts.

At this point, you were sure it was me and DDD. But maybe Nacho instead of DDD (which implies definitely me, whether its DDD or nacho).

by post #241, you called me and nacho scum, and you've all but forgotten about DDD. There's nothing in your iso that shows your thought process between 218 to 241, its like you're arbitrarily changing things around on whatever you can easily argue for. There is nothing in your iso until I started questioning you about voting nacho that suggests you ever considered nacho and I equal scum reads. There is no posting trail of evidence that shows you having more of a scum read and nacho and/or less of a scum read on Me/DDD. In 218, you are declaring one thing, and by 241, you were declaring another, and now you are declaring something else - there is nothing connecting the dots between your reads.

Nice observation? I figured you were actual going to leave, not randomly become active?

I was pointing that out in reference to how that is a crap reason to justify moving your vote off of me if you think I'm scum. Does going V/LA make me less scummy? Is there some questions or reactions you're looking to get out of me from your vote, which makes it pointless to leave it there while I'm V/LA? This doesn't make sense either because you're not questioning me and when I ask you why I'm scum you just tell me to read back and when I question you further you just ignore me. You seem content calling me scum based on the assumption that I am scum without having to justify your conclusion.

CAN YOU REALLY NOT UNDERSTAND THIS? take a deep breath, and read back. I'm against him for using that as a *defense*, not for having a playstyle.

You sound like you're the one who should be taking a deep breath.

When I read back to post 218/232/234/236, I see you saying that no one really has conscious playstyles they intend to conform to, except for scum. Thus, since nacho is claiming to be changing his playstyle, he must be scum because only scum have a pre-emptive playstyle in mind. so, you are against him having a playstyle, *and* for using it as a defense, I guess. But when Nacho first said he had changed his playstyle, I didn't see him as using it as a defense against a damning accusation, more as just an explaination. The majority of your posting on the subject is about how townies shouldn't have premeditated playstyles, not about using playstyles as a defense.

Anyways, that last paragraph isn't really part of the reason why I'm voting you. Its because you self-admittedly switched your vote to nacho because there's more momentum and support there. I feel that is a scum motivated mindset - townies want to argue vehemently for lynching their #1 suspect, not fold and switch to a secondary (oh sorry, I forgot we're equal now) suspect who happens to be more lynchable in your opinion.

I would like you to spend less time trying to insult me for having the audacity to question you, and more time addressing this, and what happened to your scumread on DDD who you were sure was scum with me in 218, and why your so convinced I'm scum based on 1 post 24hours into the game you felt was faked towniness, and what happened with your scumread on SA who you voted earlier in the game and seemed to just kind of drop (much like your DDD suspicions).