Open 382: Friends and Enemies in MSPaint! (Game Over)

[Slandaar]

Haze I agree on 6 it seemed wrong to me (assuming its the last one)

I wanted to see who spotted it

[Elmo TeH AzN]

I know you can.

but do you WANT to vote Alice with me?

Yeah. Mind you this mornings been mostly a blur of things.
VOTE: Alice

[Pizzadudes7]

Why would rainbow post the rules as scum? It would do him no good to. He would be ousted by poe.

Has Kondi said anything since the self vote?

The rules are just a Pony edition of basic rules you learn in newbie games. Nothing special. Tracey is right in calling it as not an obvious indication of Rainbow being town.

[Elmo TeH AzN]

Then I'm nieve and a bit crazy as well.

[Slandaar]

So let us discuss some things

VOTE: Slandaar because you must be scum this time around...

Now initially I thought this meant Alice was scum in the first roll of this game from this post. However Tracey enlightened us that this is not in fact the case.

So on reanalysing this I realised that the vote reason insinuates she knows I was town in the previous roll... but how did she know?

Scum qt before game starts -> someone told her who scum were in qt because she has a buddy who rolled scum previously (still working on which one)

Anyways
This did not draw my attention but is quite important as I feel it is the nail in the coffin.

The rest of the case...

This seems non-random. Does this merit an explanation?

As pointed out, the wording is wrong here. It feels wrong. Scummy? not really sure, but its just not right.

Hmm, okay, Slan.

See she didnt care if I gave an explanation or not. This is what bothers me.

I am then sheeped which is fine but its again strange 'good point on pizza but I dont see the scum motivation' well how can it be a good point then? she then votes Elmo after only speaking about Pizza.

Town cred. That said, I do not think Rainbow is scum.

This again is weird. Its correct but its not right in that its suggesting something can be viewed as scummy but she is also ensuring people dont think she thinks rainbow is scum. Its so defensive.

Nothing here is major scummy I agree.

But the whole

The whole of the ISO + qt theory makes her scum. There is nothing remotely town in her ISO its all meh posting.

And to add
She was posting in other games but didnt post here
Meta suggests she is scum here.

So vote Alice.

[Pizzadudes7]

Then I'm naive and a bit crazy as well.

FTFY

[Hoopla]

Rhinox

replaces

Rang Tangler

. Please make him feel welcome.

Day 1, Vote Count #5

With thirteen alive, it takes

7

votes to lynch. Deadline is schedueled for 10:00 GMT, April 4th <Countdown>.

Alicewondering -

3

(Pizzadudes7, Slandaar, Elmo TeH AzN)

Elmo TeH AzN -

2

(Alicewondering, Furcolow)

Rainbowdash -

2

(Kassadin, TraceyLyn11)

Pizzadudes7 -

1

(Rainbowdash)

kondi2424 -

1

(kondi2424)

Kamikrazy -

1

(Blueberry)

Not voting -

3

(Rhinox, Kamikrazy, Haze)

[Elmo TeH AzN]

I am then sheeped which is fine but its again strange 'good point on pizza but I dont see the scum motivation' well how can it be a good point then? she then votes Elmo after only speaking about Pizza.

This right here hits a spot with me. Because I did it myself and was ousted in Open 375.

[Rhinox]

hai guys *waves*

*looks up* gawd I'm going to get pizza and elmo confused all game.

Read through everything once, but I'm still getting caught up and letting it sink in. Looks like Rainbow and Tracey are likely town and pizza's giving me negative vibes and everyone else I don't have much of an opinion either way yet. So,

vote: pizza

[Elmo TeH AzN]

Hi Rhinox.
What do you think of Alice's post though

[Rainbowdash]

@Slandaar - If you are going to call Alice scum for (mainly) the whole QT thing, Furcolow is the right lynch since Tracy is probably town here meaning only remaining roll one scum player is Furcolow. Only point against Alice that is worth anything is that she gave up the hunt for reasoning behind the vote pretty quickly. Im not buying it though because of something else I think is true.

I still think Pizza and Furcolow are the best two lynches here. Kass aint half bad either

To explain the rules better though for those who didnt get it.

Rule 5 comes from the fact that we need to know if somepony is lying about being a mason since we are going to be basing some reads on the fact that they are really a mason and therefore confirmed town. The mason who is most likely to be lynched should claim. For a hypothetical lets say pizza is scum and fakeclaims mason here, Alice if mason should be the one to counter since if we removed pizza, she would probably be lynched.

Rule 6 follows along in this because im not putting it as an impossibility for scum to fake counter, which if we blindly trust gets them mason lynch and two immediate shots at other masons for one scum. When there is a 1v1, we figure out who we would lynch, at that point, if that pony really is a mason, they have a partner back them up. It does out another mason, but it prevents the mason mislynch, going back to scum freedom I mentioned earlier. Two masons will die in two days but its forcing scum to carry out specific actions. If scum backs up the fakeclaim, we have a second mason counter and repete the loop. Using this tactic we prevent scum from ever being able to mislynch a mason.

[Kamikrazy]

I completely neglected this game and I apologize for that.

Pizza why didnt you vote in the first post if you were going to place a random vote?

Alice... its not random. no point explaining it though.

Why is it not worth explaining? No reason for you to keep the reasoning behind your vote secret.


Post #32 - Why did people answer this question and not completely disregard it as being insanely scummy? Perhaps i'm missing something that someone can point out, but town gains absolutely nothing from information like this. Instead, all it does is to let scum know what to avoid doing in this game.

But as I said how would that help when he would be caught by PoE.
And yeah just did a quick iso of Kondi and he hasn't said anything

How is a townie-looking post lead to being caught by PoE? That's the entire point of a pro-town post, it GIVES you credence if a player is trying to PoE, not take away from it...Either three things here: 1) My logic is wrong (Please tell me how) 2) Your logic wrong and you don't realize it or 3) You're just trying to defend scum-buddy rainbow.

Explain #'s 1 or 2 otherwise by PoE ( ) that makes you scum.

Lastly, what was the point of you even pointing out Kondi's inactivity to begin with and then respond two posts later. It would have taken you half a second to actually check and see if he had posted anything, and yet you insist on asking and then responding. What's the point of that, other than looking like you are pushing the game forward when really you're just posting inane bullshit?

Slandaar - Up until post #106 you have been extremely deceptive. Is that really your approach to playing the game as town? What do you gain from being so secretive and confusing?

The only other thing worth noting: Last game I was in with Pizza all he did was fluff post and not scum hunt, pretty much the same he is doing here and he flipped scum. In a 13 player game, I don't think it merits a D1 lynch but I just want to point it out.

Vote: Elmo Teh Azn

I didn't play in the previous game so i'm a bit lost on some of the things going on. Can someone clarify some of the references being made to last game. Who was confirmed scum/town etc? What was the state of the game in? Anything at all would be helpful if references are going to continue being made towards it.

[TraceyLyn11]

im claiming townie

Why claim?

You realize he claimed townie and not vanilla townie or mason? I think someone else questioned this, too. Of course he'd claim town.

ISO #1: She says that "there are three ponies that scum are 100% forced to kill." Scum don't necessarily

have

to go for the masons. Some people prefer to kill the most active players. Or the most dangerous. Or the PR's. There's a good chance scum would go for the masons, but I know plenty of people who have played by killing off the most active townies instead.

If a mason makes F3 scum has at best a coinflip to win, scum dont want masons around late since they are unlynchable. Im a master of doing slightly different things as scum, but intentionally letting a mason make it to endgame unless there is a huge advantage to doing so, is something that is just going to greatly damage scum since it quickly drops their chances of winning.

Maybe I just don't understand the setup (I'm used to newbie games). What is F3? My guess is three players are left. Couldn't scum win before F3?

How is "not understanding a rule" a scumtell?

It's not. I just forgot to add it to the upper part and was too lazy.xD

ISO #3: "apart from me seems to be the only one really pushing the game along at this point." Hey guys, I'm pro-town!

I will always complain about ponies doing nothing. How is calling out everypony for not doing anything a scum tell?

Because you didn't say, "Wow guys, we really need some activity here." Instead, you called to attention the fact that you're one of the only ones pushing the game along. That's not getting people to help. That's stating that you're more active in posting. And as lurking is commonly (although not technically correctly) seen as a scum tell, activity is generally seen as a town tell.

ISO #5: "I might have redrawn mason or am VT." Conveniently leaves out scum as an option.

Im town, so I would say "I might be scum" because.... why?

Because you said you "might have redrawn." Scum is still a possibility whether you're scum or not.

Also Tracy is probably town because...

She was scum in the first draw. If she was scum again, she would know that the roles were likely rerandomized, as I do since if im mason I have at least one different partner. She drew non-scum, which is why she inquired about the roles being rerandomized. I just needed to make sure that she was scum like she seemed to imply.

No, see, I wanted people to realize this wasn't a possibility. I was in the original game, but I replaced in as someone else. So I could have gotten their role, or they could have been re-randomized. The only way I would have known was if I had kept the same slot I had.. But I didn't. So although I am town, this is not a reason you should think that I am.

Why would rainbow post the rules as scum? It would do him no good to. He would be ousted by poe.

How would she be ousted by PoE?

Town cred. That said, I do not think Rainbow is scum.

This doesn't make sense. You recognize a reason why the rules would benefit her as scum, yet you said because of that, you think she is not scum?

Tracey you are town... but so is Rainbow

I hope you take this under advisement.

Meh. I don't know if you're town or scum, so why should I take your advice?!

Haze I agree on 6 it seemed wrong to me (assuming its the last one)

I wanted to see who spotted it

Bold: Was that information supposed to help you in some way..? What if no one spotted it?

VOTE: Slandaar because you must be scum this time around...

So on reanalysing this I realised that the vote reason insinuates she knows I was town in the previous roll... but how did she know?

I think she was referring to the game she had with you.

@Slandaar - If you are going to call Alice scum for (mainly) the whole QT thing, Furcolow is the right lynch since Tracy is probably town here meaning

only remaining roll one scum player is Furcolow.

Only point against Alice that is worth anything is that she gave up the hunt for reasoning behind the vote pretty quickly.

Im not buying it though because of something else I think is true.

Bold: What about Rang Tangler? Rhinox just replaced her.

Italic: Which is...?
-----
I'm more nullish on Rainbow now. Though my gut says otherwise. Slandaar is catching my attention, though I'm unsure. Alice is unusually quiet. Kass seems to pop in very rarely. Same with Haze. I don't think Elmo's scum. I'm null on Pizza. Kondi's gone.. Blueberry's V/LA. I'm null on Furcolow.

Sooooo.. Yep.

[Hoopla]

kondi2424

has been prodded.

[kondi2424]

These reactions sucked.

I'll make an interesting post that will have everyone in awe soon.

[Alicewondering]

Elmo, what are your reasons for voting me?

--- Slander, slander,

Now initially I thought this meant Alice was scum in the first roll of this game from this post. However Tracey enlightened us that this is not in fact the case.

So on reanalysing this I realised that the vote reason insinuates she knows I was town in the previous roll... but how did she know?

Scum qt before game starts -> someone told her who scum were in qt because she has a buddy who rolled scum previously (still working on which one)

This is the worst logic I've ever seen. I was referring to our previous newbie game, not Open 382 at all. (Yeah, what Tracey said.) After playing with you in that newbie game, I learned that your explanations are fairly scant, so I wasn't about to spend a bunch of effort wringing an explanation from you that you refused to give. Hence, I asked if it merited an explanation. In other words, "Are you going to explain that? If not, whatever."

As pointed out, the wording is wrong here. It feels wrong. Scummy? not really sure, but its just not right.

wtf you're not even really convinced by your own case.

I don't really see how I sheeped you at all. I disagreed with your assessment that Pizza was scum, though it was a valid point that I tucked away. I thenvoted Elmo for sheeping, which I see him doing again with his newest vote on me. Posting in other games means nothing. I merely haven't gotten interested enough in this game yet.

Find a better wagon, man. You're wrong.

This doesn't make sense. You recognize a reason why the rules would benefit her as scum, yet you said because of that, you think she is not scum?

Because I am a crusader against bad logic, and I don't want people to think the right things for the wrong reasons.

[TraceyLyn11]

In reference to Alice's last post (115): KJGsduddiubsiusgpiugeijbsojuciugebodnx. I don't

think

Alice is scum at this point. I feel like I'm going to regret saying that, but her post makes sense and follows her meta more or less.

[Alicewondering]

In reference to Alice's last post (115): KJGsduddiubsiusgpiugeijbsojuciugebodnx. I don't

think

Alice is scum at this point. I feel like I'm going to regret saying that, but her post makes sense and follows her meta more or less.

Well, newbie meta might not be the best thing to go off, just saying... I feel like my playing has changed a lot. If you want to read my more recent games, they're all on my wiki.

[Rainbowdash]

Pizza is still the lynch here everypony. I will run it down nice and simple for you and expect a bit of a wagon to actually show up on him, since the Alice case is a little flawed and mostly is just fluffed up by an odd theory that to be true means Fucolow must be scum first.

Basic Pizza case:

Trys to start appeasing ponies who put early comments against him. He actually does this twice in his first post which is non-game related, and later to Slaandar when he says that he will be active and contribute (which he hasnt done).

When I ask him for reads on a trio, he never gives any solid reads. Each of his reads allow for him to easily call them town or scum at his will in the future. On top of that he actually has not given any reads, at his point he is voting Alice for RVS reasons. While he hasnt posted after the case, he ignores the fact that there are quite a few actually voting for non-random reasons, which means that all RVS votes should be instantly justified or moved.

Basically he is doing absolutely nothing, just making comments that either add nothing to the game or calling ponies who are getting attention "maybe scum, maybe town". Pizza is scum who has no idea how to react to somepony like me coming in and grabbing the game by the reigns and Slandaar making some pretty unorthidox pushes so wants to just wait to see how things shake down.

Furcolow is also a great vote for the RVS questions.

All they can possibly accomplish are

1) Allowing scum to know what they should avoid doing to not get caught
2) Cause some debated over theory as to what scumtells and correct scumhunting methods are

Both of these are destructive to town. When you add the fact that he is intentionally avoiding reading posts of somepony (me). Most interesting part about that is its probably due to my posting style, yet he openly says that he is a fan of gimmicks to catch scum.

[Elmo TeH AzN]

5 Pages. I'm going to read this thread again. My thoughts have been all over the place as of late.

[Elmo TeH AzN]

So in Post 9 Alice is already going after Slandarr (Im assuming you both were in this the first time around.)

What did you mean Slandarr?

Pizza I still don't get your #20 post joining RVS after making a post and being called out on it. Why didn't you in the first place again?

As we later figured out Kondi was reaction testing. Still don't know what for but it just seemed at the time he was trying to let it slide and see if anyone would notice anything here.

I still don't get it in post 27. So by not joining a wagon that was formed and being a sheep I stalled the game? (Notice I did join the Pizza wagon as well)

Alice and Furclow - I gained your votes instantly with no real reason. Why?

VOTE: Pizzadudes
For not making a move yet in Munchkin.

You can say the same thing though about joining the Rainbow wagon, knowing fully well that Rainbow is V/LA
Your right I should put my vote on Pizza and I will. Lately Ive been lax with my votes. Dunno why.
VOTE: Pizza

How can one vote someone twice anyway?

What do you all see as being a good method of scumhunting?

I usually prefer watching people's posts together (through ISOlations) - voting patterns, how one's thoughts and actions change and do they contradict each other. (For example, Elmo voting a person twice)

What do you all imagine will be the methods with which we will use to catch scum this game?

I can imagine people doing that reaction test thing.

VOTE: Kamikrazy for not posting yet despite posting somewhere else after the topic was opened.

This just says how much my heads been on straight as of late.

I like this I really do But the rules are still better. And what happens if by some chance scum nails 2 masons and the 3rd is MLed? There goes the Conftown block and we're back at Square 1 scumhunting.

Yes A little bit since Im not one to be that familar with this setup and how masons work aside being conftown


Reading it again Slandarrs Posting from 62-70 Confuses the hell out of me.
Furclow - by saying he's ignoring RD's post is anti-town imo.

I know Slan and Elmo already covered this, but I do find it odd no one brought this to attention. And, as Slandaar said, I find it odd that Elmo repeatedly dodged explaining why it sparked his attention. Kondi: Why did you vote yourself? Reaction testing, I would assume. If so, do you think it was at all successful? Have you ever used this method before?

It was talked about and did you notice how he still didn't say anything till even after he was prodded?

Why do people think this post is townish?

For one, I don't understand how this would make Rainbow look like a Mason

(real quick note, I've only ever played newbie games. I apologize if I am a little slow at grasping the setup). Masons' only ability that's different from vanilla townies' is to be able to discuss with two other townies during the night, right? So how would this give "Mason vibes"? Also, a lot of this is obvious. Not really pro-town.. Just obvious. Considering Rainbow was a Mason last go around, this time she could be scum just using her Mason information to gain town-cred. I feel I wrote that awkwardly, so I feel compelled to add: know what I mean?

It doesn't 2nd it makes the masons conftown. Scum would have to be stupid to claim mason knowning fully well they can be CC'ed and ousted by the other masons though. Personally I don't believe Rainbow is a mason. I don't think he would have gone that far to out himself and put a target on his back if he was.

So.... You believe Kondi is town then after his one post of a self vote?

How is a townie-looking post lead to being caught by PoE? That's the entire point of a pro-town post, it GIVES you credence if a player is trying to PoE, not take away from it...Either three things here: 1) My logic is wrong (Please tell me how) 2) Your logic wrong and you don't realize it or

3) You're just trying to defend scum-buddy rainbow.

The only other thing worth noting: Last game I was in with Pizza all he did was fluff post and not scum hunt, pretty much the same he is doing here and he flipped scum. In a 13 player game, I don't think it merits a D1 lynch but I just want to point it out.

Vote: Elmo Teh Azn

My logic has sucked a lot as of late. I don't get it. Bolded is just funny to me. So in the end you talk about me in the beginning say Pizza's fluffing the hell out of his posts and you put a vote on me. You want to talk about someone semi defending someone I can make the case you're defending Pizza as well and saying to him "GET YOUR HEAD FROM YOUR ASS YOUR FAILING" Which it can be misconstrued as knowing that you 2 can't talk during the day.

In reference to Alice's last post (115):

KJGsduddiubsiusgpiugeijbsojuciugebodnx.

I don't

think

Alice is scum at this point. I feel like I'm going to regret saying that, but her post makes sense and follows her meta more or less.

WHUT

[Slandaar]

I merely haven't gotten interested enough in this game yet.

Why are people not voting Alice?

[Rhinox]

Hi Rhinox.
What do you think of Alice's post though

Which one?


Slandaar #104: A little suspicious of slandaar for leaving out the other logical conclusion - alice being a mason with a mason partner who was scum in the previous roll of the game.


Regarding Rainbowdash rules:
Specifically 5 and 6 - I thought of a better idea. If there is a mason claim at L-1, the player who is forced to claim has to name one of their mason partners. If the claimed partner confirms, then its still 2 masons outed like the current rule 6 and no masons are outed. If the claimed partner does not confirm they are partners, then the player claiming is proven scum and it does not out a single mason in the process (since the claimed partner only has to confirm that they are not partners with the fake-claiming scum). Much better than the current rule 5.

[Rainbowdash]

Regarding Rainbowdash rules:
Specifically 5 and 6 - I thought of a better idea. If there is a mason claim at L-1, the player who is forced to claim has to name one of their mason partners. If the claimed partner confirms, then its still 2 masons outed like the current rule 6 and no masons are outed. If the claimed partner does not confirm they are partners, then the player claiming is proven scum and it does not out a single mason in the process (since the claimed partner only has to confirm that they are not partners with the fake-claiming scum). Much better than the current rule 5.

I dont want a mason to claim with a partner because rues 5/6 only are going to come into effect if scum counters a real mason, or scum fakeclaims mason, which there is no guarantee that they will. If the do counter then we can start having partners back up claims, untill then there is no point to give scum names of two masons without a for sure scum lynch.

[Slandaar]

hey you guys im only going to post when im interested in this game which will be when someone is being wagoned (or someone is calling me scum)

see you then!

now you see the pure scummyness from Alices posting?

So vote.