Worst Role Mafia - GAME OVER!

[RedPanda]

Also, I disagree that what Tierce said ruins the value of her reads. The fact that you are trying to devalue them doesn't make me think well of you.

I'm still in love.

[RedPanda]

dana not so much, ShadowGirl. TBH, he's a player I have issues reading. I'm voting for my favorite lynch, anyway.

Its not your fault.


some people deserve to get lynched.

[Amrun]

Also, I disagree that what Tierce said ruins the value of her reads. The fact that you are trying to devalue them doesn't make me think well of you.

I didn't say it devalued her reads. I said it devalued NK analysis. Her reads would have been examined regardless, if I was alive, anyway, and they would have been MORE informative had she not placed WIFOM into scum's head on purpose. I have a hard time believing she doesn't realize this.

The cases etc. she leaves behind would still be valid, should she die and flip town, but the nk analysis is now pointless.

[Tierce]

Unofficial votecount:

Oversoul (8) - Tierce, Gimmicky Alt, Agent_Ireland, brizingre1, theamatuer, ShadowGirl, Amrun, mafia-n00b
Phillammon (4) - IceGuy, danakillsu, saulres, Captain Haddock
danakillsu (3) - RedPanda, knox, ManiacalLemon
Captain Haddock (1) - Phillammon
brizingre1 (1) - Oversoul
ManiacalLemon (1) - BBmolla
theamatuer (1) - Foxace36
Foxace36 (0) -

none

BBmolla (0) -

none

Amrun (0) -

none

saulres (0) -

none

mafia-n00b (0) -

none

PokerFace (0) -

none

IceGuy (0) -

none

ShadowGirl (0) -

none

Gimmicky Alt (0) -

none

RedPanda (0) -

none

knox (0) -

none

Agent_Ireland (0) -

none

Tierce (0) -

none

No Lynch (0) -

none

Not voting (1) - PokerFace

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch. The deadline is in (expired on 2012-04-29 08:00:00)

PEdit: They do, but we don't have the luxury. ._.

PEdit2: It's my

cases

no one ever pays attention to, Amrun. Look, arguing about semantics is utterly pointless, and I don't often see you do profound NK analysis either, so I don't get why this is bothering you so much. It's done. Stop pushing the issue.

[IceGuy]

Anyways, for everyone on Phil's wagon or was (other than dana): what do you think of dana?

One of the many people in this game who don't actually post anything of value but also aren't actively anti-town.

[saulres]

Here's my promised analysis of those on the dana wagon.

danakillsu (3) - RedPanda, knox, ManiacalLemon

RedPanda: No reason other than "look at the iso". That's not a valid reason. Panda might be a better lynch than dana for that, will look at tomorrow.

knox: This one's tough, because of the post restriction. But it looks like he was highlighting things in dana's posts that he didn't like, and it seems like it centers on dana's flipping his vote off of Haddock and onto Phil. I saw that too when I was looking at his ISO, but I did my due diligence -- dana said he'd keep his vote on Haddock unless Haddock came in and made a good case. Haddock did that. After that, dana doesn't refer to it again, but I could see him saying "Well, I don't agree with Haddock's case, but at least he came in and put in a thought-out one, so I'll pursue this other good-looking lynch instead." I lean town on knox and think he was just confused on this though and look forward to his response to this.

ML: Another "just look at the iso". I'm not particularly impressed by this slot and I hope the anticipated replacement will come in and give us something to work with. The problem here of course is we can't just arbitrarily throw a vote at it unless it's a concerted effort with enough people committing to do so.

pedit: Saw ShadowGirl has dana at the top of her list, will have to look into why (unless she wants to point me to it?)

[Tierce]

saul: Scum can't bus? Why are you looking at the voters before flipping anyone involved? You are analyzing people just based off their votes on an unflipped player, instead of going through D1 votes or, hell, the whole of their play so far.

[Amrun]

PEdit2: It's my cases no one ever pays attention to, Amrun. Look, arguing about semantics is utterly pointless, and I don't often see you do profound NK analysis either, so I don't get why this is bothering you so much. It's done. Stop pushing the issue.

I perform NK analysis all the time, actually. Looking at who died when is quite important, though usually later in the game, looking back.

For example, this time, I assume that Hippos was killed because he was clearly a hydra/alt of mysterious but clearly experienced players and mcqueen was killed because he was fucking annoying (no other possible reason there that I could determine).

Those aren't important, so I didn't mention them, but I thought about them. When we have more flips, things like that will become more valuable.

Also, I agree with IceGuy about dana. Nothing particularly anti-town.

[mafia-n00b]

@ShadowGirl

RE: dana, I don't like the "dumb wagons" part of 918, but I don't see him threatening you in 836 necessarily, could simply be a friendly pro-town warning. I don't like how he jumped on the "one of the masons has to be scum" concept. Overall, I guess I don't see how he's at the top of your list... he doesn't scream scum to me.

@dana: do you see any contradiction between being on a dumb wagon (Chimera) and calling others out for dumb wagons?

PEDIT: @Amrun, why are you so sure that mcqueen was killed?

[saulres]

Why are you looking at the voters before flipping anyone involved? You are analyzing people just based off their votes on an unflipped player, instead of going through D1 votes or, hell, the whole of their play so far.

ISO'd dana, and I'm not really seeing anything particularly scummy. Now I'll go look at the people who voted for him and why they did so, maybe I missed something.

I didn't analyze any of the voters except insofar as their reasons for voting dana. If I saw something which looked like "this is a stupid reason" I noted it as a reminder that it's worth looking at tomorrow, and also to indicate to others that maybe those people are worth a look.

[saulres]

mcqueen was killed because he was fucking annoying (no other possible reason there that I could determine).

Why the assumption he was killed? We don't have a flip.

[Tierce]

I missed #1119. Sorry. So... why are you voteparking?

And mcqueen had better be dead, otherwise I'll wrangle a gun from scum's hands and kill him myself.

[saulres]

why are you voteparking?

I've answered this twice now. Must I quote it again?

[Tierce]

And yes I know this somewhat contradicts my "you don't kill players willy-nilly" stand.
But this is a special case, etc.


PEdit: Uhm. >.> Let me check first.

[Tierce]

Checked.

But you're voting for someone who, regardless of what you think of him, is rather visibly not getting lynched today. Why? And why not check your read on Oversoul, who is "one good option"?

[saulres]

A wise woman once said, "Patience, grasshopper."

The deadline is still over two days away.

[mafia-n00b]

Possible things that have happened to mcqueen other than him being scumkilled:

a) night-vig-killed
b) he was sent "elsewhere" and will return at some point
c) he literally vanished... in that he's still here, but invisible... maybe PMing to mod but can't talk?
d) he is some strange variant on a commuter
e) we're straight-up being lied to by the mod, he didn't vanish at all
e) one of any number of other bastardly things that haven't occurred to me yet

[Phillammon]

Bastardry is order of the day, let's be fair. My money's on "will come back to life at some point". Maybe a variant on the memento cop?

[mafia-n00b]

Let me try something...

UNVOTE:
VOTE: mcqueen

Mod, can we get a votecount?

[saulres]

And while you're at it,

mod

, can we get a replacement for ML?

[Tierce]

Hey look, another townread!

[danakillsu]

@ShadowGirl

RE: dana, I don't like the "dumb wagons" part of 918, but I don't see him threatening you in 836 necessarily, could simply be a friendly pro-town warning. I don't like how he jumped on the "one of the masons has to be scum" concept. Overall, I guess I don't see how he's at the top of your list... he doesn't scream scum to me.

@dana: do you see any contradiction between being on a dumb wagon (Chimera) and calling others out for dumb wagons?

PEDIT: @Amrun, why are you so sure that mcqueen was killed?

I don't understand your question to me. Are you saying that because I was on Chimera's wagon, calling his replacement's wagon dumb is a contradiction? Because theamatuer has said some things to put my mind at ease about that slot.

@ ShadowGirl
He's right, I wasn't threatening you. I'm only warning you that there are things you don't know that are connected to the one interesting thing that you DO know about me. I can reveal more soon, but for now I'm just making sure you know that there will be consequences out of my control if you choose to do something to me. And those consequences will be worse for you than for anyone else. Also, I may know what research you did, but you're going down the wrong track if it's what I think it is.

@ All

Read this post VERY carefully:

Well. I guess that a flip would be useful to the town, even if it is a town flip. Much as it would solve arguments, I think that saying yes now would be a breach of rule 2 in that I wouldn't be playing to win if I *requested* being turned into a survivor and killed. So I guess no, but if it gets to L-1, I think taking a hit for the town would be in order, even if it would cause me to abruptly stop being town. So my answer is no, but Modkill me if I hit L-1. That way you can use the lynch to find the real scum.

Let's say you're all town for a sec. If you get modkilled, what happens? Your win condition changes to survivor, and you die. This means you LOSE THE GAME. That's as opposed to what? Dying and hoping your team wins for you. The only person that should be okay with being modkilled under any circumstances is someone whose win condition won't change. Someone who sees no difference between dying and losing. In other words, a survivor. People, he's an anti-town role whose win condition is surviving. We can't keep him around.

[Amrun]

mcqueen was killed because he was fucking annoying (no other possible reason there that I could determine).

Why the assumption he was killed? We don't have a flip.

Never seen someone "vanish" and come back.

[Tierce]

dana, he's choosing, as town in the

present

, to sacrifice himself for town as a whole to win. The fact that he bothered to look at the rules and see whether or not that would be viable is a towntell.

Self-sacrificing town is not unheard of. Besides, he is choosing to die and lose the moment he hits L-1, instead of trying to argue his way out of a lynch and live another day. That does not fit with survivor mentality, but with town who doesn't mind losing as long as everyone else has a chance.


Plus the pile of whole other stuff he's done that comes from town.

[danakillsu]

dana, he's choosing, as town in the

present

, to sacrifice himself for town as a whole to win. The fact that he bothered to look at the rules and see whether or not that would be viable is a towntell.

Self-sacrificing town is not unheard of. Besides, he is choosing to die and lose the moment he hits L-1, instead of trying to argue his way out of a lynch and live another day. That does not fit with survivor mentality, but with town who doesn't mind losing as long as everyone else has a chance.


Plus the pile of whole other stuff he's done that comes from town.

Or maybe he looked at the rules because he doesn't want to be modkilled right off the bat when he might be able to not die at all?

How likely is it that he argues himself out of an L-1 situation when we've got obvious survivor-tells like this? No, the best strategy in his case is to tell everyone he can be sacrificed (because it really doesn't lose him anything) and gain town-points with people like you. And the pile of other stuff...yeah, nonexistent. I've given more than enough proof that he's not town even aside from my last post.