TM2012 - Closed Normal(Over!)

[iamausername]

Lets summarize this.

Haylen is trying to convince me that I can't read her.

With her vote on me.

...yep. that'll do it.

UNVOTE: UberNinja
VOTE: Haylen

L-1, fyi.

[Haylen]

So that's L-1.

Parama wants me to tell you you're scum, Slaxx.

[PeregrineV]

The case is you're calling Grey scum but then trying to convince him you can't read him. Its two separate avenues: one of outward action and one of inward thought.

You outwardly

say

you think Grey is scum by voting him, saying he is lying/exaggerating/BSing whathaveyou, but then you try to convince him that he is reading you wrong, which of course implies you

think

or assume he is town. Meaning what you say and what you think isn't the same.

And that is why I'm voting you.

I shall write a screenplay, yes. Yes I shall.

*convince you he cant read you

Are you saying "convince him he can't read you"?

[Slaxx]

Yes Pere, thats what I meant.

You can relay back to him that he is wrong, Haylen.

[Haylen]

He's relaying to you that you are wrong about my alignment.

[Slaxx]

Its also his job as a teamate to defend you no matter what. I love Parama but him telling me you're town is like the CEO of Pepsi telling me Coke contains liquid nitrogen.

[Haylen]

The game currently comes under the umbrella of this. You have an stupid wagon going, you're probably going to lynch me today meaning scum get more time to talk than we had during the day.

CLEAR YOUR FUCKING BRAINS AND GET ON A REAL WAGON.

Unvote
Vote Uberninja

I think Grey is just bad bad town.

[Slaxx]

You're not getting lynched just yet, no one has hammered.

unvote

Here, no lolhammers.

I'd like to hear more from Delta, Pere, and Poro anyway.

[iamausername]

Are you saying "convince him he can't read you"?

Are you saying anything useful in this game?

[Slaxx]

^ town

[GreyICE]

Hmmm.

I'm not ready for a claim yet, given that some people haven't even posted (HI MASTERMIND OF SIN), some people have posted virtually nothing (HI POROCHAZ AND COOLDOG) and some people are being terrible. But, I'm fine with my vote here.

UberNinja is not a real wagon. It's a stupid wagon fueled by pure stupid. So, you'll mind me if I ask what your vote is doing on it.

So, who is a real wagon... noting that I'd be willing to bet at least one of (Porochaz,CooLDoG,MoS) is scum.

[jasonT1981]

Had a quick read over that other game, GrayICE is town...

GrayICE... why Cooldog and MOS... one has posted once, the other not at all.

Are you really wanting to go down the road of lynch lurkers?

[UberNinja]

I do not give my blessing to a Haylen quick lynch. I do however give my blessing to a Haylen lynch before page 15, granted that everyone has posted and taken a firm stance in the proceedings, or taken other actions that are significantly obvious enough to get some kind of read on them based on Haylen's flip.

Carry on.

[UberNinja]

Had a quick read over that other game, GrayICE is town...

GrayICE... why Cooldog and MOS... one has posted once, the other not at all.

Are you really wanting to go down the road of lynch lurkers?

GreyICE said nothing about lynching lurkers. He said he didn't want Haylen lynched at least until the lurkers posted, which is essentially what I'm saying too.

Your first post was scummy enough, and this one's even worse. You're my second-highest scum suspect.

Money in the bank.

[jasonT1981]

I've got null-town on Grey and IAm.

I can't find a train that'll take me to my destination yet, so I think I'll hop on this one for now, its goin to good places.

unvote, vote haylen

this worries me, he has no reads but will hop onto a wagon.. this seems like scum jumping onto anything not really caring what way it goes... he unvotes then does not mention Haylen again as I can see, until this

Lets summarize this.

Haylen is trying to convince me that I can't read her.

With her vote on me.

Good enough for me. Back on the original choochoo.

vote haylen

A rather weak jump onto the wagon again.

however, in between all this does this

Don't think Grey is scum Haylen.

I like

vote Uberninja

Flashy GIFs are pretty but thats about all they do for me.

jumping on a popular wagon again, as steam is being put on UberNinja who is now on 3 votes...

band wagon jumper scum

vote:Slaxx

[jasonT1981]

Had a quick read over that other game, GrayICE is town...

GrayICE... why Cooldog and MOS... one has posted once, the other not at all.

Are you really wanting to go down the road of lynch lurkers?

GreyICE said nothing about lynching lurkers. He said he didn't want Haylen lynched at least until the lurkers posted, which is essentially what I'm saying too.

Your first post was scummy enough, and this one's even worse. You're my second-highest scum suspect.

Money in the bank.

I was just trying to find GrayICE reasons for ,CooLDoG,MoS lynches, given there was 0 to o on for them.

[jasonT1981]

to go on*

[UberNinja]

I'm not getting bad vibes from Slaxx atm.

Your post 165 makes exactly zero cents.

[jasonT1981]

OK, yes I read that wrong, sorry... he was saying he bets one would be scum from that group.

not lynch from those... my mistake

[Slaxx]

Jason you need to read

Practically every single one of my posts has been about Grey's credibility in pushing Haylen, about Haylen, why I voted Haylen, or why I voted UN.

[CooLDoG]

[In regards to uber ninja]Nope. I'm looking for nervousness. Mistakes combined with inability to explain them equal nervousness and is ultimately scummy.

I agree with this. I don't know why uber cares so much about this rvs thing. Just say I think gray ice is more of a butthole than haylen so I picked him. It could have been as easy as that. Nope, we have to doge stupid questions...

Spoiler: No more of these types of posts

These are all of Quilford's mini normal games, most of them he replaced out of.
Mini Normal 1145
Mini Normal 1147
Mini Normal 1272
Mini Normal 1202
Mini Normal 1190
Mini Normal 1161
Mini Normal 1156

My mini normal games, I didn't replace out of any, I'm also pretty sure there are 3 more games between 800 and 851 somewhere:
Mini Normal 1304
Mini Normal 1140
Mini Normal 1075
Mini Normal 946
Mini Normal 928
Mini Normal 847
Mini Normal 851
Mini Normal 795
Mini Normal 800

Grey, your logic is bad. I feel more comfortable in mini normals than I do in open games and theme games.

Let's not go down the meta happy trail. I have seen a trend in team mafia where people go supper crazy over last years meta (check almost normal, I think). This ends here. Scum can hide behind these bullshit meta arguments and I'm not going to let this game divulge into "I can quote more games than you! HA, you are scum".

I prefer a good strong defence than a weak on like that. If you don't back it up with every scrap of evidence you have (which I did), then it's not acceptable to me. I'm holding myself to the same standards I hold to everyone else in this game.

Over defensiveness is a scum tell. I don't think it can necessarily be applied here, but if one paragraph can refute an argument just as well as a 5 paragraph wall, use the one paragrapgh. Hold off all of the links if you are pressed. It makes the game easier to read and harder for scum to hide.

UNVOTE: Slaxx
VOTE: UberNinja

Asking why he picked Grey over the other non-posters is not "pointing out an inconsistency", it's just asking the obvious question to ask when presented with the reasoning he gave. It's pretty clear that UN made that vote with every expectation that someone would ask him why Grey, and every intention of jumping on the first person to do so.

Also post 37 is

Nah, that wasn't my intention originally, but it ended up working out that way and scum is caught and already flailing, so why

not

roll with it and pretend I had everything figured out anyway?

Yeahhhhh

Then why wasn't your answer to haylen, "well, I don't really know."?

Why did you feel the need to come up with a justification?

Nah, that wasn't my intention originally, but it ended up working out that way and scum is caught and already flailing, so why

not

roll with it and pretend I had everything figured out anyway?

Yeahhhhh

So what was your original intention?

What's to say I had one?

vote: Uber ninja

This post is bad. He had a reason, now he is all ready back tracking. Let's wagon this guy.

People choosing roles is not pure WIFOM, I think there is legitimate reason to explore those avenues.

GreyICE pushed similiar out-of-game influences very very hard in last years Team Mafia in PYP, I wouldn't really call him scum for that. I think its in his nature to start out heavy and utilize all resources available.

Over in thread actions?

good post Let's look in thread first and then go off thread to support our arguments.

Bit of chatter in my team quick topic with DDD, he seems to think GrayICE is playing very similar to what he did as town in TM: PYP. I didn't read this game, but furthers my thought GrayIce is town. GrayICE, do you have a link to that game so I can check it out?

Do you have any arguments as to why grey's posts are scum motivated? Are you only pushing a lynch based off of other people's meta arguments???

Is this seriously going to have to come down to me sitting down and sifting through all the games you guys have played in or can you save me a day and just admit that one of you is lying or exaggerating ಠ_ಠ

OR you take option 3: Don't believe any meta tells as the only argument for a lynch.

I forgot you were in Multiple Personality Mafia, I even forgot I was in it, I was actually trying to forget that game.

I also forgot you were scum in Calc mafia.

One game does not an open book make.

So you admit I have never, ever misread you.

Ever.

Is that about the whole of it, Haylen?

This is really bordering on the ridiculous here. Are you really using that argument? Do you have any substantive points?

Hmmm.

I'm not ready for a claim yet, given that some people haven't even posted (HI MASTERMIND OF SIN), some people have posted virtually nothing (HI POROCHAZ AND COOLDOG) and some people are being terrible. But, I'm fine with my vote here.

UberNinja is not a real wagon. It's a stupid wagon fueled by pure stupid. So, you'll mind me if I ask what your vote is doing on it.

So, who is a real wagon... noting that I'd be willing to bet at least one of (Porochaz,CooLDoG,MoS) is scum.

You know, if maybe everybody posted more during the start and less over night I could have posted more

I do not give my blessing to a Haylen quick lynch. I do however give my blessing to a Haylen lynch before page 15, granted that everyone has posted and taken a firm stance in the proceedings, or taken other actions that are significantly obvious enough to get some kind of read on them based on Haylen's flip.

Carry on.

I fail to see why it should matter.

If you think haylen is scum why do you care when she gets lynched?

[CooLDoG]

Also, bub thinks that haylen is scummy for being odly defensive early in the game. TA also thinks haylen is scummy, but hasn't given any specifics yet. I'm sort of null on haylen right now.

[Slaxx]

No cooldog. GreyIce's strategy was great to get the game going. Point is, we have nothing to start off with first: only out of game information. So thats a great way to create in game information (reactions, wagons, etc).

Saying only irrelevant out of game information comes out of initially utilizing out of game information is like saying all information that comes out of RVS is random and unreliable.

[Slaxx]

Also, there's a big difference between using meta and lying about past games >_>

[Glork]

If you want to attack the contents of the defense, do that, but defending oneself from an attack isn't by any means a scum tell.

Glork's voting me when he said my defence isn't scummy. Voting patterns inconsistent with opinions -> noted.

:bigredx:

Stating "defending oneself isn't scummy" != "Haylen's defense isn't scummy."

Your defense is like a billion times STRONGER than it was in LyLo in Scummies WINvitational, and that freaks me the fuck out, because

THE GAME WAS ON THE LINE THEN, AND YOU COULDN'T BE ARSED TO DEFEND YOURSELF

. Here, you get some small amount of pressure D1, and flip a shit out on EVERYBODY. The difference could not be mroe vast. I'm trying to figure out why that's the case.

I said that people should not attack you simply because you defend yourself. They should be attacking you because of

HOW

you defend yourself. Because it doesn't sit well with me either.



Porochaz: Before I even begin to get into this one, could you please explain your definition of "flailing"?


Now, first impressions of the Haylenwagon.
Grey is either busing like a crazy motherfucker, or is town. To be completely frank, I could see either being the case quite easily. I'd be sorely tempted to gain brownie points by throwing Haylen under the bus if I were scum.
This may sound really, really, REALLY retarded. But what initially bothered me is the way he tried to appeal to me without dropping a pile of f-bombs and/or insulting my intelligence. I got a distinct "I want to get on Glork's good side" vibe from his appeal to me.
What really tipped me off to the idea of Grey busing is this whole "read you like a book" thing. While it may be TECHNICALLY true that Grey has never misread Haylen as town,

his sample size appears to be ONE

. Can somebody please explain how the fuck reading a player in ONE game translates to "I can read you like an open book"? Am I missing something here?

Lets summarize this.

Haylen is trying to convince me that I can't read her.

With her vote on me.

If I'm scum, why does she want to introduce doubt about my read on her? I wouldn't have an honest read on her, I'd have a dishonest read on her based on the fact I was scum.

This one gets me, because the answer should be obvious.
But Haylen isn't GIVING it.
"Because showing that your claimed 'read' is complete bullshit will convince people that you are scum with a fabricated 'meta,' and she is town."

But fucking NOBODY is saying that. NOBODY. Instead we have Slaxx and iamausername derping along going "HAY I AGREEZ" and not bothring to put a bit of fucking THOUGHT into any of this.

And yet.

Haylen can't even give the right answer.


Sidenote on Haylen: CES is pretty convinced she's scum. Chamber is on the fence like me. CTD think she's town, and remembers a game from ages back where she vehemently defended herself D1 and CTD (as scum) got her lynched for it. So CTD asserts that her behavior here is consistent with Haylen-town.


PereV is being actively useless. DeltaWave, too.
Porochaz seems to have done his absolute best to not comment on the Haylen situation at all.
If Grey/Haylen are protown, there are probably two scum in this group of three.

I do, however, agree with Porochaz's points against Murasa. There are a lot of questions and not a lot of thoughts/opinions/analysis/statements given.

UberNinja is trying way too hard to be all cute with people, and CooLDoG hit the nail on the head with that one. It makes everything he says look like some herpaderp who would rather one-up other players than find scum. Basically, everything UN has said so far has struck me wrong. Nothing resonates as somebody looking for scum, just someone who would rather 'win' petty arguments over stupid shit.

I've got a tentative townread on jasonT.

Though I didn't read into it earlier (the whole skimming on my phone at work thing), a quick iso of iamusername reveals that Post 51 looks pretty bad. I never got the impression that UN expected someone to ask "why Grey." The rest of iamusernames's posts are pretty uninspiring.

I'm actually going to take a step back here and

Unvote, Vote: PeregrineV

.
To be completely frank, I'd probably have moved to Porochaz, but I want to extract some information from him before I decide if he's scum or not.
PereV and DeltaWave, on the other hand, could use a bit of pressure the old-fashioned way.