MOD – please clarify these questions for me
1. In the case where a player is able to cash in multiple words in the same Night the languge of the role PM indicates that they should be able to use multiple Active abilities should they receive more than 1. Is this correct?
2. Likewise can scum use an Active ability from a Word and perform the scum Nightkill on the same Night?
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LLD wrote:Why should town work towards a power standard? What is there to gain from having tons of powers running around, as opposed to having this be as close to powerless as possible.
Hoopla has already addressed the 10:3 Mountainous angle of your arguments already so I don’t think I need to repeat that line. However you have not directly addressed one issue I brought up.
Why specifically comment about “Tons of powers” running around when all Powers are inherently 1-shot? Best case barring the use of a Letter Steal ability players are not going to be able to make Words and generate abilities every Night. Best case a player can make two small combinations N1 and N2 and will then not be able to make another combination until N4 at the earliest. Anyone who makes a 3 letter Word N1 would not be able to make another combination until N3. And these are best case scenarios that don’t reflect random distributions or poor available options.
Town is already going to be fairly Power-free. I expect more than half the playerlist will not be doing any trading in for Abilities until N2 at the earliest. This is a Mini Theme game so we are probably looking at a 4-6 Day game. The ball is already in Scum’s court.
@LLD
– you didn’t answer my question about whether your plan was a reaction test. Please confirm or deny that in your next post.
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Iceguy’s entrance at
Post 53 is good for discussion. I disagree with some of his assessments (for example P and G are very important letters, perhaps moreso than C, and G is perhaps one of the WORST to put into scum’s hands) and I have concerns that his analysis doesn't take into account letter frequency (C is the most common letter IRIC). Also I don’t think that rigid control of who takes what will work out well for Town. I can reference Andrius’s Mordor Mini Theme as an example of the dangers of strictly planning everything out in thread. Scum can and will exploit these plans.
@Iceguy
– how do you purpose that we regulate who takes what? Do you have a mechanical system in place or is the “scummy players should be forced to take bad tiles” just going to piggy-back off the lynching mechanic?
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Whisper wrote:Before anyone else flips/takes a tile, I'd like to hear thoughts on a potential tile massclaim and then following the tiles being flipped, we all decide who ends up with which roles, thus locking as many players as possible into a position where they cannot make a fake claim the next day. This would mean scum would be taking a huge risk if they lied about which tiles they already have. We could set it up the roles to either back up other peoples claims, or expose them as scum. Yes, this leaves scum open to knowing who has which role, but barring other abilities, they can still only kill one player at night, which they would be doing anyway. It seems to me that control is the name of the game, and the more control and knowledge the town have from the start, the more chance we have of making the best use of the available abilities, and limiting scum.
I could not disagree more with this statement. Control is not the ‘name of the game’ as Town cannot control the scum Nightkill. All strict control combined with a letter mass-claim would do is give scum the complete information the need to strategically make sure their kills are optimized and any roles Town does manage to cobble together are killed if they are a threat and ignored if they are not (like Neighborize). Scum don't have to make a single lie (this is a Vanilla base set-up) to take full advantage of this plan.
VOTE: Whispersilk
This is plan goes a step beyond LLD’s and actively helps Scum as opposed to hindering Town.
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AV wrote: (i.e., if scum take a letter that is part of a scummy ability, we'll at least be tipped off a little. If they snatch and grab before seeing the letter, they have plausible deniability)
So LLD’s plan has netted her a Pro-Scum letter. What are your thoughts on that given the above?
AV wrote: Vote: Hoopla
Didn't you "hope" LLD was scum earlier? Why then is the entrance townish?
Straight out – are you simply concocting a reason to bandwagon for bandwagonning’s sake here?
AV wrote: How do we determine who takes tiles? Do we just take whatever we feel like? Does the person who flips it get first pick? Do we try to request tiles and allow people to take them or deny them?
I myself would like people to suggest what tile the intend to take before doing it. For example I don’t at this stage support Vijay taking a tile simply because ‘he wants it’ as he’s in my pool of suspects.
AV wrote: If we don't allow people to take unflipped tiles, then certain players will have to take the duff tiles (through whatever means we decide). If we allow players to choose a tile, and we see someone go for a crap tile, as Amrun pointed out this is a pretty big signpost for scum. However, if we were to force people to "request" tiles in some way...well, that would mean that the "signposting" issue is gone. But I'm not sure how feasible this really is.
If we DO allow people to take unflipped tiles, we run the risk of letting scum luck onto helpful tiles as in LLD's plan, but they have no responsibility for it. Now, I'll have to look through the letter combos when I'm not hung over, but I seem to remember someone saying that there are certain letters that are more pro-scum and more pro-town. As the number of flipped-but-not-collected tiles goes up, the higher the chance that scum will stumble onto a tile they need - either through flips that have been left or through picking unflipped tiles. OTOH if there are letters that only benefit scum (again, I need to check this), then it seems to me that allowing players to pick unflipped tiles will mean that we can keep these "scum letters" exposed on the gameboard upon pain of lynching.
I’ll state for the record – I’m not going to ever take a Useless tile or a tile that doesn’t help form a Pro-Town ability based on what I have. If it comes down between taking and unflipped tile and one that will not help form a Pro-Town ability I’ll be taking an unflipped. This game is short and scum have the Nightkill in their pocket. The fear of ‘oh no, they have an unknown tile’ really isn’t a selling argument given that all scum have 2 tiles you don’t know about now. A Mountainous set-up isn’t likely to be won by Town.
Do you disagree with that logic?
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Vijay wrote:VOTE: Hoopla
AV makes a good point.
Also, I mentioned this to the mod, but I think some of the powers you get are disproportionate to the letters required. Like a weak doc needs more (and rarer) letters than a doc.
No he doesn’t. Actually his point is terrible as he’s completely taking Hoopla’s statement and twisting the clear implication to make it appear suspect. That you vote and abdicate responsibility (linking it to AV’s point and not anything of your own) dings my scumdar.
What is the point of the second line other than fluff? Firstly the set-up is what it is … it isn’t going to be changed. Secondly do you disagree that a Weak Doc shouldn’t take more letters than a regular Doc?
Vijay wrote: I want to take a letter..
What letter do you want to take?
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Similarly I don’t like Amrun’s
Post 62 for the vote and reliance on AV’s point to justify her vote.
I do agree, however, with her point about control being a practically inoperable element to Iceguy’s plan.
"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
Pretty much Geriatric game restricted at this point ... unless there are players I REALLY want to play with.
