Mini 1349: Words with Scum (Game over!)

[IceGuy]

True, still find it odd that you called bs on my gambit claim without going so far as to even call me scum.

Don't you think that's implied? Do I need to spell out everything?

So robo magically becomes a scumread for you (which you have NEVER commented on all of day 2) despite that fact that you do not believe I attempted a gambit on him?

Not "magically". He already was a scumread in my reads post on D1, and on D2 I focused on MoI.

(Oh, and I see what you're trying to do here. No, it won't work.)

[DCLXVI]

Don't you think that's implied? Do I need to spell out everything?

No I didn't think it was implied. I thought it was what you were going at but I wanted to be sure.

[Robocopter87]

I was going to wait till the morning to post this but I'm back at my pc and a bit paranoid about getting lynched before I get this out.

This is an extremely important post. Please, please read this. I have been holding off posting this for as long as possible but I need to post it now so it gets through.

I have a confession to make. (no I'm not claiming scum)

I've been running a gambit.

This post here was the start of it.

Because I have town reads on both of them (voided/ICEguy) dating back to day 1. (which I have no intention of explaining so don't bother asking why. Let's just say they've both done something very townish and I'm waiting to see if anyone else does it.)

You see, while I did see those two players as town. I did not have any secret tell that they had done. So you may wonder why I lied about this. Let me explain.


I got the idea from a game that recently finished. Open 402. Here is what happened. In the game I was scum, llamafluff was town. Thomith was scum. These are the only relevant roles.

Thomith got run up to L-1.
Llama then uses a tell that he claims proves thomith is town.
I as scum immediately call bs on the tell, knowing that the tell is complete bs because I have inside info.

Basically, this is kinda what I was hoping for. I was going to call someone town for some wacky (or nonexistent in this case) reason and basically see what comes of it. If iceguy or VM was scum, I figured there was a good chance of scum coming along and calling bs.

I believe this strongly indicates that robo here is scum. He has a townread on both the players I was calling town through the secret tell. Yet he steps in quickly to call BS to the tell.

If robo was town and viewed VM and ICE as town, it would seem likely that a town robo could accept that DCL could have a reason for a townread. But since that is not what happened it is clear to me that Robo is scum. and either voided and/or ICE is the buddy.

The first reason I didn't call this out as BS immediately was because Open 402 had not ended and thomith was still alive, (so obviously I couldn't talk about it)

I figured I could hold off the lynch for a while because everyone would need to come buy and collect tiles. But now this needs to be posted.

Robocopter is scum, he needs to hang. NOW.

VOTE: Robocopter

I honestly don't care if you lynch me at this point. But get robocopter the next day please. I am fine going 1:1 with scum.

Haha, so I'm scum for calling BS on a tell you said you had but wouldn't share.

Now you admit that you didn't have a tell.

So it was BS.

Where do I become scum in that process?

It is not likely that I could've believed you might have your tell. I already thought you were scum. You created this magical tell that didn't even exist. Why on earth would I even think you could be town because of the tell?

Why are people still voting him when he could have self-hammered as scum?

Vote: MoI

For that exact reason? So people will jump off his wagon?

[AurorusVox]

Do you think that WIFOM is worth letting people take an extra letter? Considering it looked hella likely he'd get hammered anyway since no one was unvoting after he went to L-1.

[Voidedmafia]

It is not likely that I could've believed you might have your tell. I already thought you were scum. You created this magical tell that didn't even exist. Why on earth would I even think you could be town because of the tell?

This, really. Or rather, you're trying to appropriate a tell from Llama and...not really using it well.

Why are people still voting him when he could have self-hammered as scum?

Vote: MoI

Because we think he's scum, but want everyone else to actually get their tiles and flips done?

[Robocopter87]

Collect I5

[DCLXVI]

This, really. Or rather, you're trying to appropriate a tell from Llama and...not really using it well.

I didn't steal a tell from llama, did you even read my freackin post?

[Robocopter87]

Yes she did, you said Llama made a tell proving Thomith town.

You did the same thing.

[Robocopter87]

Llama then uses a tell that he claims proves thomith is town.

[Voidedmafia]

Robo, you sneaky ninja.

[DCLXVI]

I got to love how MoI is commenting everywhere else on the site (even in other theme games) but has avoided showing up here today with all the stuff going. Not sure what that means yet.

------------

anyway...

Since some people (voided, and maybe robo.) don't quite get how my gambit worked even though I explained it perfectly fine twice I'm going to explain it again in as simple and straightforward of a way as possible.

How I got the idea for my gambit.

Open. 402:

Part 1:

Llama as town calls thomith (who is scum) town for a reason that was terrible. (sidenote: Llama was not doing a gambit, llama legitimately believed in the tell, but nevertheless it was a terrible tell as evidence by it being very wrong.)

In other words, a town player called a scum player town using a terrible tell.

Part 2:

I was scum in that game. As soon as llama called my buddy town I immediately got on and called bs on llama's tell.

In other words the scumbuddy came in and called bs on a tell that the scumbuddy knew was bs.

Ok, so here is what I did in this game.

Part 1:

I called voided and ICEguy (whose alignment I was getting less sure of) town for a completely bs reason.

part 2:

Robocopter comes in and immediately calls bs on it. This leaves me strongly suspecting that he is a scumbuddy with inside info.

[DCLXVI]

Yes she did, you said Llama made a tell proving Thomith town.

I did not use the same tell llama used.

And secondly I intentionally used a bad tell in order to gambit and look for scummy responses.

[Robocopter87]

*Looking into Open 402 before responding*

[Robocopter87]

Do me a favor and tell me what page I should begin reading on.

[Voidedmafia]

Llama was only wrong that one game, considering his post-game responses. 10-1 for a tell is VERY, VERY good (though undoubtedly he's probably pissed at losing that perfect record). Nice try trying to downplay the effectiveness of the tell, though. Yes, I watched 402 from start to finish (Hard-Boiled being one of the two Opens I was playing in at the time of the reset, with my version having gotten to D3 or so).

And no, obviously you didn't use the EXACT tell Llama did (I will agree that, if that was Robo's implication, he's wrong). However, you

are

trying to use a similar take on the tell (based on your biased opinion of the tell from ONE game where it didn't work), and you're not using even that very effectively.

You also ignore why Robo called us both town.

I called the battle between VM and Ice to be TvT not because I have a townread on both of them. but because the qualities of their argument indicate them to be town.

(slightly unrelated to the point of your most recent postings, but I'd just like to point it out).

All in all, you've really just proven that both of us were rather right in calling your bluff.

vote: DCL

P-EDIT: Eh...'Bout here, as this is one post where Llama explains his VT tell.

[DCLXVI]

robo is still scum, and either ICE or VM is scum with him.

But if you want to lynch me before everyone collects, go ahead and do that. It's just going to hurt the town.

[DCLXVI]

I've explained my gambit perfectly, VM/Robo are both completely misrepping it.

Lynch one of them tomorrow please.

[Robocopter87]

Obviously you didn't use the same exact tell. That was blatantly obvious.

You used a gambit that you yourself invented based off another game in which it didn't work.

Not only that but it isn't even the proper scenario to perform that gambit.

The gambit was an absolute failure.

[whispersilk]

Everyone flips before anyone takes. Then, players say what they are going to pick before they do so and we organize who will pick what tile. If someone picks a scummy letter, [S, N, J, etc] (which nobody will since it would virtually be suicide) then we know they are scum. Since no one would pick these letters, we keep powers like Ninja and Strongman from scum's hands. Also, no one should pick an unflipped letter, as that is the only way that scum would get their hands on these powers. Scummy players will get the bad tiles.

This is really really really dumb.

What if the scummy letter is all that is left?
The scum would just pick the most powerful letters considered 'town'.

An entirely loss-loss situation for everybody.

I don't think this post is scummy, I think its just dumb.

PEDIT: @ Voided: But do you want to call her scum? So is LLD scummy or not? You seem to be avoiding actually answering it. Also, I got a potentially powerful letter, does that make me scummy but not able to be called scum?

Arugula, why the heck are you still voting Voided?

Your initial reasoning was terrible. Then it was crushed by Voided and Amrun. You even replied to their defense as, "Fair enough". Yet your vote remains. It seems more of an omgus vote than anything else. So why does your vote remain?

DCL, you are tunneling me like crazy. After that whole escapade, all you have to say is QFT for one of IceGuy's horrible points on me?

Let me ask you this question: Do you think Amrun is town or scum?

And Robocopter, chill out. I'll post more when I'm not on my phone, but you haven't been a shining star scum hunter either. You mostly yell at others to do things you aren't doing yourself.

Okay, I'll give you credit, your first sentence had a valid point. Even if I did just point out that point.

You asked the same question as the post above you but to a different person. Nice job.

I'm not frustrated or angry or anything, I'm just curious why you dig your heels in when you could easily put them in their place by proving it.

@ MOI's request

1. MagnaofIllusion - Nullish-Town
2. Hoopla - Town
3. AurorusVox - Null
4. IceGuy - Null
5. Lady Lambdadelta - Pretty Town
6. Arugula - Null-Scum
7. 2minds1soul - Null (Needs to post moar)
8. Robocopter87 - Obvsexy
9. whispersilk - Scum
10. DCLXVI - Null (Needs to post moar content)
11. vijay2vasandani - Null-scum
12. Amrun - Town
13. Voidedmafia - Town

Yes.

In fact, I don't know why I'm voting Whisper when Arugula is clearly the scummier of the two.

UNVOTE: Whisper
VOTE: Arugula

DLC: In the other game, Llama gave a reason, however terrible it was, for his town tell, right?

[whispersilk]

^that was a total post fail. Ignore the robocopter posts, they are meant for a post directed at him.

DLC, the question at the bottom is meant for you.

[DCLXVI]

DLC: In the other game, Llama gave a reason, however terrible it was, for his town tell, right?

yes, but that is irrelevant.

The point is I was trying to call someone town for a shit reason to catch scum jumping on me. That's about the shortest way to put it.

I will explain again for you:

in 402 scum thomith gets called town for a shit reason. scumbuddy calls the bad reason bad.

I was simply trying to set-up scum and have them jump on me like that.

-------

Also, what is with the quotes?

[Robocopter87]

Pfft, I will never ignore the sexy smoothness that is Robo's words.

However it looks like you have some problem with me and my arugula vote. Wonder what it is.

PEDIT:

It is not irrelevant. He at least explained his reads. You just said you invented some magical tell that made both of them town. I wouldn't have called BS if you would've explained why they were town. I called BS because you said they were town and that you had a reason that you refused to give.

[whispersilk]

I was in the middle of organising a post directed at Robocopter, and forgot I had pushed the multi-quote several times to quote him, then ended up hitting reply after typing my question to you.

/spaz

I don't think it's irrelevant at all. Your town reads on two players in this game were called out for being bullshit only after you made a song and dance about the fact that your reads were based on a town tell that you insisted was going to be kept secret.

I doubt Robo would have called your reads bs if you had given him a legit reason for them. He called them bs because you refused to do so. That is not the same as you calling Llama's town tell bs, because he gave a reason for it, no?

So your gambit really wasn't a gambit at all, and I don't see how you could have hoped to gain any useful information from your results, when the results you got were a direct result of a lie that was always going to elicit disapproval from town as well as opportunistic scum - therefore null.

[whispersilk]

^@DCL

[Voidedmafia]

I've explained my gambit perfectly, VM/Robo are both completely misrepping it.

Lynch one of them tomorrow please.

PFFFT.

Your obvious bias about his tell considering the fact that it seems to be the ONLY game where it failed is very evident.

Do tell: How is a TEN TO ONE WIN/LOSE RATIO for a tell make it shitty? You explain how that is true, go on.

Also: Last call for the "D" tile on the board! I wish to collect in one of my next couple of posts.