Mini 1339: Saw Mafia (Game Over)


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Post Post #800 (ISO) » Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:45 am

Post by CryMeARiver »

VisMaior wrote:Cmar explain the tracker result.
unvote


That he visited Pine? I'm not sure but I bet it has something to do with him setting him up for lynch before he could even post once.

Maybe, and I'm only speculating because you're asking me to, the traps are untrackable and only blockable by me and Jigsaw has other actions he can perform at night that Danny saw 2B1S doing.
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Post Post #801 (ISO) » Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:45 am

Post by CryMeARiver »

*Make that Jigsaw's Apprentice
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Post Post #802 (ISO) » Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:11 am

Post by Empking »

VisMaior wrote:His exact needs? You mean, a trap that actually kills people?


No a trap that fit his needs. In this case a trap that justified calling the Mafia town.
Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi
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Post Post #803 (ISO) » Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:13 am

Post by Empking »

VisMaior wrote:HI!

ConfidAnon lynch should not happen.


I was put in a trap yesterday. I had to pinpoint a scum player. If I fail, the person i pinpointed would die. If I succeed, I myself would die, however, only at the end of the day.
I chose Ser. He died, so he must be considered "not scum". Therefore I find highly likely that ConfidAnon is also not scum.

Since no other deaths occured, Im pretty sure the traps are how our scum kills people. That means that Jigsaw did not work alone. The whole SK/Mafia terminology is upside down in this game.

VisMaior wrote:Id say Robbnova could have been the real cop. Also, the mafia faction didnt lose yet. So you could be the third member there. Explains the bussing thing. Only question: where is the kill? there was no mafia kill since sers death. The fact that he lost, he might have been the only killer role in that faction, but then the balance seems off again.

Ehhhh. Could tehre be 2 more apprentices and 1 more mafia? That would be a 3-3-7 not a balanced setup at first glance. But then again, mafia obviously has trouble killing people. Maybe a 50% chance kill?
Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi
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Post Post #804 (ISO) » Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:23 am

Post by CryMeARiver »

Empking, your opinion please?
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Post Post #805 (ISO) » Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:48 pm

Post by Empking »

I'm fully willing to believes that 2b1s is town with simply a difficult role. That's part of this game's entire theme. I don't think looking at night actions (or the set up) directly leads to finding scum (in this game).
Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi
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Post Post #806 (ISO) » Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:26 pm

Post by Herodotus »

Vote Count 2 of Day 5:

CryMeARiver - 1 - 2birds1stone
iDanyBoy - 0 -
Empking - 0 -
2birds1stone - 1 - CryMeARiver
VisMaior - 0 -
Not Voting - iDanyBoy Empking VisMaior
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Post Post #807 (ISO) » Wed Jul 18, 2012 3:17 pm

Post by CryMeARiver »

Empking wrote:I'm fully willing to believes that 2b1s is town with simply a difficult role. That's part of this game's entire theme. I don't think looking at night actions (or the set up) directly leads to finding scum (in this game).


That one specific point, which was among others, was not the results he received though. My basis is that if he wanted to sanity check because of his flavor in his role PM, he would have checked ThAd who had just proven himself to be town I think at that point rather than Ser, a claimed godfather. This point is merely supported by the nonsensical results that followed the next nights. In my opinion, no matter what cop checks a godfather, he will receive an innocent result. Surely even if that's not in 2B1S's agreement, there must have been some doubt though.

Also, if there had been any doubt at that point as to sanity and whether checking a godfather would even pertain to sanity, which surely there would have been, 2B1S could have just investigated someone random and sanity checked later in the game once the Innocent Child came forth.

When too many things don't add up, as I've put forth, there must be scum involved. If it doesn't make sense, lynch it.
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Post Post #808 (ISO) » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:02 pm

Post by 2birds1stone »

CryMeARiver wrote:
Empking wrote:I'm fully willing to believes that 2b1s is town with simply a difficult role. That's part of this game's entire theme. I don't think looking at night actions (or the set up) directly leads to finding scum (in this game).


That one specific point, which was among others, was not the results he received though. My basis is that if he wanted to sanity check because of his flavor in his role PM, he would have checked ThAd who had just proven himself to be town I think at that point rather than Ser, a claimed godfather. This point is merely supported by the nonsensical results that followed the next nights. In my opinion, no matter what cop checks a godfather, he will receive an innocent result. Surely even if that's not in 2B1S's agreement, there must have been some doubt though.

Also, if there had been any doubt at that point as to sanity and whether checking a godfather would even pertain to sanity, which surely there would have been, 2B1S could have just investigated someone random and sanity checked later in the game once the Innocent Child came forth.

When too many things don't add up, as I've put forth, there must be scum involved. If it doesn't make sense, lynch it.
Your argument regarding my play is the shittiest part of your case, CMAR. Your entire problem with my nightplay is that it isn't how you would do things. Now, to look at it more in depth.

CryMeARiver wrote:My basis is that if he wanted to sanity check because of his flavor in his role PM, he would have checked ThAd who had just proven himself to be town I think at that point rather than Ser, a claimed godfather.
MagnaofIllusion wrote:Scum governors are just as likely as Town governors. JasonT had one in his Superhero Revolution.
Also, if I have to tell you that I asked the mod about this one more time, I am honestly going to rage oh so hard.

CryMeARiver wrote:This point is merely supported by the nonsensical results that followed the next nights.
Results which you yourself justified.

CryMeARiver wrote:2B1S could have just investigated someone random and sanity checked later in the game once the Innocent Child came forth.
This is "He could have done it later rather than sooner". That's... that's just fucking stupid. I wanted sanity checking out of the way as soon as possible so scum couldn't ruin it by killing confirmed players before I got to them.

Now, CryMeARiver, I'm going to ask you one question, and only one question: Do you think iDany is town?
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Post Post #809 (ISO) » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:09 pm

Post by VisMaior »

OK so I have slept on this. Here are my toughts.

I am fairly convinced we are looking at 1 more mafia, and 1 more trapper.

Case 1.
CMAr is town and 241 is trapper.
Pro:
-false guilty results after sanity check
-detectives are VT
-too many investigative roles
-general behavior(pushing on bad logic, 1 shot trap idea)
Con:
-tracker result hard to explain

There is a case to be made here, but I think CMARs explanation of the tracker result is a stretch. True, absta did claim neighbourizer, so this gives credence to a second ability, but I would argue that the tracker would track the killing ability first, no?

Case 2
241 is town and CMAR is the trapper
Pro:
-CMAR has easyest to fake claim with a miller/scumblocker
Con:
-nothing in the behaviour points to scum much
-our QT is pretty reassuring too
-role interactions between his and mine make it more believeable

CMAR claimed a weird trap for sure, but the same logic applies as to my trap.

In both cases we look for another Mafia, but the kills are somehow messed up. If i had to chose between iDanny, the tracker, or Emp, Id say its Emp.

Case 3.

CMAR is trapper and 241 is mafia
This makes more sense than the above 2. 241 KNEW that danny tracked him. he waited with his result until danny said this:
I'm waiting for the person alI tracked to reveal their results before I reveal mine.

You can deduct from this that 241 was the tracked. So now he knew danny saw him going to nopoint and he had a copclaim going. He took a shot and claimed guilty. He was wrong, so now he has to go back to sanity issues.

I fint CMAR to be more likely to be the trapper than 241. Since the trapper is a bigger threat than the mafia due to the lack of kills so far
vote CMAR
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Post Post #810 (ISO) » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:27 pm

Post by VisMaior »

Empking wrote:
VisMaior wrote:His exact needs? You mean, a trap that actually kills people?


No a trap that fit his needs. In this case a trap that justified calling the Mafia town.

Why would there be a need to call mafia town?
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Post Post #811 (ISO) » Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:56 am

Post by iDanyboy »

VOTE: Vis

You should of been lynched already.
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Post Post #812 (ISO) » Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:59 am

Post by Empking »

VisMaior wrote:
Empking wrote:
VisMaior wrote:His exact needs? You mean, a trap that actually kills people?


No a trap that fit his needs. In this case a trap that justified calling the Mafia town.

Why would there be a need to call mafia town?


You tell me.
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Post Post #813 (ISO) » Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:59 am

Post by CryMeARiver »

2birds1stone wrote:
CryMeARiver wrote:
Empking wrote:I'm fully willing to believes that 2b1s is town with simply a difficult role. That's part of this game's entire theme. I don't think looking at night actions (or the set up) directly leads to finding scum (in this game).


That one specific point, which was among others, was not the results he received though. My basis is that if he wanted to sanity check because of his flavor in his role PM, he would have checked ThAd who had just proven himself to be town I think at that point rather than Ser, a claimed godfather. This point is merely supported by the nonsensical results that followed the next nights. In my opinion, no matter what cop checks a godfather, he will receive an innocent result. Surely even if that's not in 2B1S's agreement, there must have been some doubt though.

Also, if there had been any doubt at that point as to sanity and whether checking a godfather would even pertain to sanity, which surely there would have been, 2B1S could have just investigated someone random and sanity checked later in the game once the Innocent Child came forth.

When too many things don't add up, as I've put forth, there must be scum involved. If it doesn't make sense, lynch it.
Your argument regarding my play is the shittiest part of your case, CMAR. Your entire problem with my nightplay is that it isn't how you would do things. Now, to look at it more in depth.

CryMeARiver wrote:My basis is that if he wanted to sanity check because of his flavor in his role PM, he would have checked ThAd who had just proven himself to be town I think at that point rather than Ser, a claimed godfather.
MagnaofIllusion wrote:Scum governors are just as likely as Town governors. JasonT had one in his Superhero Revolution.
Also, if I have to tell you that I asked the mod about this one more time, I am honestly going to rage oh so hard.

CryMeARiver wrote:This point is merely supported by the nonsensical results that followed the next nights.
Results which you yourself justified.

CryMeARiver wrote:2B1S could have just investigated someone random and sanity checked later in the game once the Innocent Child came forth.
This is "He could have done it later rather than sooner". That's... that's just fucking stupid. I wanted sanity checking out of the way as soon as possible so scum couldn't ruin it by killing confirmed players before I got to them.

Now, CryMeARiver, I'm going to ask you one question, and only one question: Do you think iDany is town?


1. No. It's how town would do things. It's what logic deems correct.
2. My "justifications" for your results were merely to point out how farfetched the possibilities for your "results" are. WIFOM: And if I was mafia, I would not create justifications for you -__-
3. Except your sanity check was faulty clearly. Or are you still saying you're sane?
4. I think you're scum. I think there is one scum left. Logically, I think everyone else it town. Though Danny's play today is not good. Nor is Emp's.
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Post Post #814 (ISO) » Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:31 pm

Post by Herodotus »

Vote Count 3 of Day 5:

CryMeARiver - 2 - 2birds1stone VisMaior
iDanyBoy - 0 -
Empking - 0 -
2birds1stone - 1 - CryMeARiver
VisMaior - 1 - iDanyBoy
Not Voting - Empking
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Post Post #815 (ISO) » Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:58 pm

Post by CryMeARiver »

VisMaior wrote:OK so I have slept on this. Here are my toughts.

I am fairly convinced we are looking at 1 more mafia, and 1 more trapper.

Case 1.
CMAr is town and 241 is trapper.
Pro:
-false guilty results after sanity check
-detectives are VT
-too many investigative roles
-general behavior(pushing on bad logic, 1 shot trap idea)
Con:
-tracker result hard to explain

There is a case to be made here, but I think CMARs explanation of the tracker result is a stretch. True, absta did claim neighbourizer, so this gives credence to a second ability, but I would argue that the tracker would track the killing ability first, no?

Case 2
241 is town and CMAR is the trapper
Pro:
-CMAR has easyest to fake claim with a miller/scumblocker
Con:
-nothing in the behaviour points to scum much
-our QT is pretty reassuring too
-role interactions between his and mine make it more believeable

CMAR claimed a weird trap for sure, but the same logic applies as to my trap.

In both cases we look for another Mafia, but the kills are somehow messed up. If i had to chose between iDanny, the tracker, or Emp, Id say its Emp.

Case 3.

CMAR is trapper and 241 is mafia
This makes more sense than the above 2. 241 KNEW that danny tracked him. he waited with his result until danny said this:
I'm waiting for the person alI tracked to reveal their results before I reveal mine.

You can deduct from this that 241 was the tracked. So now he knew danny saw him going to nopoint and he had a copclaim going. He took a shot and claimed guilty. He was wrong, so now he has to go back to sanity issues.

I fint CMAR to be more likely to be the trapper than 241. Since the trapper is a bigger threat than the mafia due to the lack of kills so far
vote CMAR


For the record, I'm purposely ignoring this.

It's not a case against me that I can respond to.

It's literally just a list, a limited list at that, of possible scenarios in which Vis deduced that I must be scum, not based on my play, not even based on my role (besides that it's easy to fakeclaim, but I can't really control that) or actions really, but instead based on likelihood which comes from something I'm not even sure what.

To this though:

Vis wrote:but I would argue that the tracker would track the killing ability first, no?


I will say that it seems Jigsaw was never able to be traced to his traps so it's not that farfetched that the traps are untrackable (much like a ninja). It's definitely more plausible than Mr. Framer/Insane Cop.

I don't understand Vis's case that 2B1S is mafia and visited Pine though. Wouldn't Pine be dead then? How did 2B1S visit him as mafia?
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Post Post #816 (ISO) » Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:38 pm

Post by VisMaior »

iDanyboy wrote:You should of been lynched already.

Nice reasoning there.
Empking wrote:You tell me.

I take this as admission that your theory doesnt hold water.
CryMeARiver wrote:It's not a case against me that I can respond to.

Well, its basically your role claim. Its too easy to not trap into a lylo and then claim you blocked some innocent for a mislynch.
Also, millers should not live to see lylo anyhow.
CryMeARiver wrote:I will say that it seems Jigsaw was never able to be traced to his traps so it's not that farfetched that the traps are untrackable (much like a ninja). It's definitely more plausible than Mr. Framer/Insane Cop.

I have not seen the films, so I didnt knew that. I dont know how plausible that is. Anyone else who seen the films?
CryMeARiver wrote:I don't understand Vis's case that 2B1S is mafia and visited Pine though. Wouldn't Pine be dead then? How did 2B1S visit him as mafia?

OK here: we know there is a mafioso. But also a trapper. Yet there is only 1 doublekill night. The mafiosi have 0 kills ever since ser died, so there is obviously some sort of factor that can prevent the kill. Perhaps a chance to fail kill. So the theory is that 241 tried to kill Pine, but failed for some reason.

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Post Post #817 (ISO) » Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:09 pm

Post by CryMeARiver »

VisMaior wrote:
iDanyboy wrote:You should of been lynched already.

Nice reasoning there.
Empking wrote:You tell me.

I take this as admission that your theory doesnt hold water.
CryMeARiver wrote:It's not a case against me that I can respond to.

Well, its basically your role claim. Its too easy to not trap into a lylo and then claim you blocked some innocent for a mislynch.
Also, millers should not live to see lylo anyhow.
CryMeARiver wrote:I will say that it seems Jigsaw was never able to be traced to his traps so it's not that farfetched that the traps are untrackable (much like a ninja). It's definitely more plausible than Mr. Framer/Insane Cop.

I have not seen the films, so I didnt knew that. I dont know how plausible that is. Anyone else who seen the films?
CryMeARiver wrote:I don't understand Vis's case that 2B1S is mafia and visited Pine though. Wouldn't Pine be dead then? How did 2B1S visit him as mafia?

OK here: we know there is a mafioso. But also a trapper. Yet there is only 1 doublekill night. The mafiosi have 0 kills ever since ser died, so there is obviously some sort of factor that can prevent the kill. Perhaps a chance to fail kill. So the theory is that 241 tried to kill Pine, but failed for some reason.

VLA until middle next week

Ill
unvote
until im back.


True millers shouldn't last til Lylo. But there won't be a Lylo if we lynch the Apprentice now.

And so you're assuming the Apprentice killed Thor with a trap last night? Why?
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Post Post #818 (ISO) » Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:24 pm

Post by 2birds1stone »

Okay, from now on, I'm assuming Confid's faction to be dead.

CryMeARiver, you didn't scumslip, but you close enough did.

You think iDany is town. However, he tracked me to a player who neither died nor claimed trapped. Couple this with your assumption that absta had only one partner, and you're gonna need to let one of your pet theories go.

Now's the time where you admit you're not really scumhunting, because you're scum, and we can lynch you.

Also, iDany, why VisMaior? I'm pretty sure the only way he'd be scum is with CMAR.
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Post Post #819 (ISO) » Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:27 pm

Post by 2birds1stone »

You know, the thing about CMAR is, maybe it's LyLo today, maybe it's not. If it's not, we should lynch him for being a claimed miller. If it is, he's got a pretty good chance of being scum. There's far more reason to lynch him than anyone else today.
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Post Post #820 (ISO) » Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:30 pm

Post by CryMeARiver »

If you've been reading, I've already put forth many theories on how Danny is town and got that result. But you haven't. Because scum don't read the thread when they put forth cases.

True millers shouldn't make it this far. That's not my fault. But everyone else has said it could be LYLO. I don't believe it, but I'm all for the "assuming the worst" situation. Now you've changed your case to lynching me because I'm a miller.

Making up scumslips. Lynching me this late because of my claim. You're grasping for straws scum.
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Post Post #821 (ISO) » Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:32 pm

Post by CryMeARiver »

@Emp and Danny: Care to jump in on the CMAR-2B1S argument going on here? I'm pretty sure the lynch is between us today.
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2birds1stone
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1230
Joined: August 6, 2011

Post Post #822 (ISO) » Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:53 pm

Post by 2birds1stone »

I have been reading, you just stopped making sense.
W/L/D = 10/10/3

I drew my avatar myself!
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Empking
Empking
Empking's Alt's Alt
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Empking
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Joined: May 4, 2008

Post Post #823 (ISO) » Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:58 pm

Post by Empking »

Vis: You called mafia non-scum. We know that event is possible simply by the fact that it happened.

CMAR: It might be between you but I doubt it.
Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi
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CryMeARiver
CryMeARiver
Mafia Scum
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CryMeARiver
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Posts: 3460
Joined: January 6, 2010

Post Post #824 (ISO) » Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:57 am

Post by CryMeARiver »

I'll be back Sunday. Emp and Danny need to step up their posts.
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You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.


"postgame i'm going to pee on you gandalf

pee on you" - Chesskid

V/LA (No access) from July 8th - July 14th


CMAR :cop:
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