Judge, Jury, and Executioner - Over

[IceGuy]

Vote Count

Sir Bastion (6): StrangerCoug, Thor665, Thor665, Teleporting Speed Hippos, vijay2vasandani, Nocmen

DCLXVI (4): WrathChild, WrathChild, Ser Panda, Ser Panda
Axelrod (3): StrangerCoug, Quilford, Quilford
Quilford (3): Arugula, Thor665, vijay2vasandani
Nocmen (3): Arugula, Sir Bastion, Knight of Cydonia
Teleporting Speed Hippos (3): DCLXVI, Nero Cain, Ser Panda
vijay2vasandani (3): Nero Cain, guille2015, Nocmen
TheShadow (2): Sir Bastion, Knight of Cydonia
Scott Brosius (2): Sir Bastion, Knight of Cydonia
Arugula (2): StrangerCoug, Quilford
Thor665 (2): DCLXVI, vijay2vasandani
Ser Panda (2): DCLXVI, Teleporting Speed Hippos
WrathChild (2): Teleporting Speed Hippos, Nero Cain
Gooner (1): Arugula
Knight of Cydonia (1): guille2015
DoomYoshi (1): guille2015
Nero Cain (1): Nocmen

27

votes are currently not on a player.

Every player has

3

votes.
With

21

alive, it's

11

to hammer.
There are

63

votes in play,

0

of which are frozen, leaving

63

votes active.

Deadline is August 11th, 3 a.m. CEST.

[vijay2vasandani]

UNVOTE: Thor
Quilford

VOTE: Arugula
Arugula

Mod-confirmed scum.

[IceGuy]

Vote Count

Sir Bastion (6): StrangerCoug, Thor665, Thor665, Teleporting Speed Hippos, vijay2vasandani, Nocmen

DCLXVI (4): WrathChild, WrathChild, Ser Panda, Ser Panda
Arugula (4): StrangerCoug, Quilford, vijay2vasandani, vijay2vasandani
Axelrod (3): StrangerCoug, Quilford, Quilford
Nocmen (3): Arugula, Sir Bastion, Knight of Cydonia
Teleporting Speed Hippos (3): DCLXVI, Nero Cain, Ser Panda
vijay2vasandani (3): Nero Cain, guille2015, Nocmen
Quilford (2): Arugula, Thor665
TheShadow (2): Sir Bastion, Knight of Cydonia
Scott Brosius (2): Sir Bastion, Knight of Cydonia
Ser Panda (2): DCLXVI, Teleporting Speed Hippos
WrathChild (2): Teleporting Speed Hippos, Nero Cain
Thor665 (1): DCLXVI
Gooner (1): Arugula
Knight of Cydonia (1): guille2015
DoomYoshi (1): guille2015
Nero Cain (1): Nocmen

27

votes are currently not on a player.

Every player has

3

votes.
With

21

alive, it's

11

to hammer.
There are

63

votes in play,

0

of which are frozen, leaving

63

votes active.

Deadline is August 11th, 3 a.m. CEST.

[Arugula]

UNVOTE: Thor
Quilford

VOTE: Arugula
Arugula

Mod-confirmed scum.

Lol no. I don't see how you came up with this, but it isn't true.
UNVOTE:
UNVOTE:
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Vijay
VOTE: Vijay
VOTE: Vijay

[DCLXVI]

I'm against the judge claiming unless he does it in order to avoid being lynched. All it is going to to is create a ton of wifom regarding whoever gets sent to the judge.

and @v2v, how exactly was arugula "mod confirmed scum"

Pedit: you should know by now that only two votes can be on someone.

[IceGuy]

UNVOTE:
UNVOTE:
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Vijay
VOTE: Vijay
VOTE: Vijay

A maximum of two votes can be placed on any one player. Since I don't know which of your votes should stay and which should be removed (please include the name of the player in the unvotes!) I'm ignoring the entire block.

[Arugula]

UNVOTE: Vijay
VOTE: DCLXVI
Quilford is also apparently mod-confirmed scum. Why only ask about me?

P-edit:

Sorry.

My votes are 2 on Vijay and 1 on DCL.

[TheShadow]

I'm for a judge claim, since it gives us a confirmed town. But don't claim unless you're close to hammer.

VOTE: Sir Bastion
VOTE: Vijay
VOTE: DCLXVI

[IceGuy]

UNVOTE: Vijay
VOTE: DCLXVI

You do not have a vote placed on vijay, therefore you can't unvote him. All your three votes are placed, so you can't vote DCLXVI.

My votes are 2 on Vijay and 1 on DCL.

For my future reference, please post this with the correct vote tags. You can see where your votes currently are in the above vote count.

[DCLXVI]

UNVOTE: Thor
Quilford

VOTE: Arugula
Arugula

Mod-confirmed scum.

Quilford is also apparently mod-confirmed scum. Why only ask about me?

Um, vijay was not calling quilford modconfirmed scum, only you...

anyway, something else that caught my attention.

Actually, maybe should talk through this.

It looks like no standard factional NK for scum.

Their power lies in matching defendants to system, possibly influencing the jury, and choosing the executioner.

If they're [the judge]killed, a random pro-town player is selected to be the new Judge;

Notice the wording of killed, not lynched. Seems to suggest the mafia have a night kill. TSH is probably town for thinking there isn't a nightkill.

UNVOTE: TSH

I'm for a judge claim, since it gives us a confirmed town. But don't claim unless you're close to hammer.

That fence sitting can't be comfortable, I think we should help ease your suffering.

VOTE: TheShadow

[Axelrod]

Hello, hello, hello!

Vote: Telleporting Speed Hippos

Vote: Ser Panda

Vote: TheShadow

For general anti-Hydra/anti-alt. principles.

There is no reason at all for the Judge to claim unless/until his head is about to go up on the chopping block, at which point he should obviously claim. Why are people even talking about this? Having the Judge claim immediately does precisely nothing for us.

Looking forward to a good game.

[Gooner]

@ Axelrod: It doesn't quite do nothing for us. It gives the Town a confirmed townie whose opinion we can certainly trust and who can become a figurehead for the town during the course of the game. It also narrows down the pool of suspects for us.

Representing it as doing nothing is frankly, wrong. Although I do agree with your conclusion that a Judge claim at the moment is not the right move.

In other news, regarding the night kill, my interpretation of the rules is that the scum do not have a night kill.

Instead the scum's power in this game comes from their ability to manipulate the Judge, Executioner and Jury. Our way to counter that is to keep the Judge unknown for a little while so that there is at least one role in the game that the scum may not manipulate. This is why we should not reveal the Judge today for minimal benefit.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm for a judge claim, since it gives us a confirmed town. But don't claim unless you're close to hammer.

That fence sitting can't be comfortable, I think we should help ease your suffering.

VOTE: TheShadow

That is not fence-sitting; that is giving a condition on when to claim.

UNVOTE: Arugula
UNVOTE: Sir Bastion
VOTE: DCLXVI
VOTE: DCLXVI

Leaving my other vote on Axelrod for now. Although we have discussed the drawbacks of the judge claiming immediately (what I've mainly seen is that it enables the scum to manipulate the judge), it does give us a confirmed townie, and dead judges are replaced by new judges. It's a misrepresentation that it does nothing for us. It does, but at a cost.

[DCLXVI]

It is fence sitting.

One of the main issues so far is whether or not it is beneficial for the judge to claim now.

Shadow first says "I'm for a judge claim," but then follows that up by modifying it to "but don't claim unless you are close to a hammer"

To paraphrase it like shadow is saying, hey guys I think the judge should claim, but wait, no, he shouldn't claim unless he gets close to getting lynched.

Its clear that the first part gets contradicted by the second part. Shadowah is trying to look like he is following the game by commenting one of the more important issues so far but he really isn't contributing anything since his stance is contradictory and unclear.

[Arugula]

UNVOTE: Nocmen
UNVOTE: Gooner
UNVOTE: Quilford
VOTE: Vijay
VOTE: Vijay
VOTE: DCL

[IceGuy]

Vote Count

DCLXVI (7): WrathChild, WrathChild, Ser Panda, Ser Panda, StrangerCoug, StrangerCoug, Arugula

Sir Bastion (5): Thor665, Thor665, Teleporting Speed Hippos, vijay2vasandani, Nocmen
vijay2vasandani (5): Nero Cain, guille2015, Nocmen, Arugula, Arugula
TheShadow (4): Sir Bastion, Knight of Cydonia, DCLXVI, Axelrod
Arugula (3): Quilford, vijay2vasandani, vijay2vasandani
Axelrod (3): StrangerCoug, Quilford, Quilford
Teleporting Speed Hippos (3): Nero Cain, Ser Panda, Axelrod
Ser Panda (3): DCLXVI, Teleporting Speed Hippos, Axelrod
Nocmen (2): Sir Bastion, Knight of Cydonia
Scott Brosius (2): Sir Bastion, Knight of Cydonia
WrathChild (2): Teleporting Speed Hippos, Nero Cain
Quilford (1): Thor665
Thor665 (1): DCLXVI
Knight of Cydonia (1): guille2015
DoomYoshi (1): guille2015
Nero Cain (1): Nocmen

24

votes are currently not on a player.

Every player has

3

votes.
With

21

alive, it's

11

to hammer.
There are

63

votes in play,

0

of which are frozen, leaving

63

votes active.

Deadline is August 11th, 3 a.m. CEST.

[Thor665]

Guille and TSH can be town now.
Leaning town on DCLXVI so I'm intrigued by the wagon there.

Unvote: Quilford
Vote: Arugula

I like lynching mod confirmed scum.

I'd also be down for lynching Knight of Cydonia.

[TheShadow]

@Mod: You missed my votes in that VC.

[Gooner]

VOTE: Vote: Shadow
Vote: Shadow

The case about his contradictory fence sitting makes sense to me.

[Axelrod]

@ Axelrod: It doesn't quite do nothing for us. It gives the Town a confirmed townie whose opinion we can certainly trust and who can become a figurehead for the town during the course of the game. It also narrows down the pool of suspects for us.

Representing it as doing nothing is frankly, wrong. Although I do agree with your conclusion that a Judge claim at the moment is not the right move.

Leaving my other vote on Axelrod for now. Although we have discussed the drawbacks of the judge claiming immediately (what I've mainly seen is that it enables the scum to manipulate the judge), it does give us a confirmed townie, and dead judges are replaced by new judges. It's a misrepresentation that it does nothing for us. It does, but at a cost.

If we had a Town role, and his role was essentially he could claim and be mod-confirmed as Town immediately, it would be an incredibly poor use of that role to claim it immediately. It would have almost no beneficial effect. This is what I am saying. Not that it

literally

does nothing.

Yes, we would have one person whose opinion we could "trust." Big deal. His opinion is not going to be any better founded than my opinion, or anyone else's - certainly not at this point. It is so much better for this person to wait and come out if he's about to get nominated, so we have stuff to analyze about how he got in that position.

[StrangerCoug]

OK, your position makes sense.

UNVOTE: Axelrod

[Arugula]

Oh, and DCL:

When I first read Vijay's post, I thought he was unvoting Thor and voting Quilford. My bad.

UNVOTE: DCL

[IceGuy]

Vote Count

DCLXVI (7): WrathChild, WrathChild, Ser Panda, Ser Panda, StrangerCoug, StrangerCoug, TheShadow

TheShadow (6): Sir Bastion, Knight of Cydonia, DCLXVI, Axelrod, Gooner, Gooner
Sir Bastion (6): Thor665, Thor665, Teleporting Speed Hippos, vijay2vasandani, Nocmen, TheShadow
vijay2vasandani (6): Nero Cain, guille2015, Nocmen, Arugula, Arugula, TheShadow
Arugula (4): Quilford, vijay2vasandani, vijay2vasandani, Thor665
Teleporting Speed Hippos (3): Nero Cain, Ser Panda, Axelrod
Ser Panda (3): DCLXVI, Teleporting Speed Hippos, Axelrod
Axelrod (2): Quilford, Quilford
Nocmen (2): Sir Bastion, Knight of Cydonia
Scott Brosius (2): Sir Bastion, Knight of Cydonia
WrathChild (2): Teleporting Speed Hippos, Nero Cain
Thor665 (1): DCLXVI
Knight of Cydonia (1): guille2015
DoomYoshi (1): guille2015
Nero Cain (1): Nocmen

16

votes are currently not on a player.

Every player has

3

votes.
With

21

alive, it's

11

to hammer.
There are

63

votes in play,

0

of which are frozen, leaving

63

votes active.

Deadline is August 11th, 3 a.m. CEST.

@Mod: You missed my votes in that VC.

Fixed.

[Ser Panda]

I'm for a judge claim, since it gives us a confirmed town. But don't claim unless you're close to hammer.

That fence sitting can't be comfortable, I think we should help ease your suffering.

VOTE: TheShadow

That is not fence-sitting; that is giving a condition on when to claim.

UNVOTE: Arugula
UNVOTE: Sir Bastion
VOTE: DCLXVI
VOTE: DCLXVI

Smell chainsawing here. Plus, Shadow has a mouth, why are you defending for him so early?

UNVOTE: TSH
VOTE: StrangerCoug

And agree with DCLXVI. Coming in and talking about game mechanics and doing nothing to start town conversation or interaction is hardcore fencesitting and does nothing to advance town's motivation. No duh the judge will claim when he is about to be lynched.

~Ser Arthur

[Sir Bastion]

It's a bit early for chainsaws to be pulled out?