Open 421-Pamplona II: Electric Bullgaloo! Game over

[kondi2424]

Well then, this just got simple. I'm going to look into the possibility of a RD-BK-Rach team.

[Psyche]

So is it 13 letters get pulled for is game and that determines the setup?

[kondi2424]

Never mind, BK/Rach aren't scum together.

PEdit: No, seven letters get pulled and the leftover spots are filled with VTs.

[Psyche]

K.

[kondi2424]

So, I think I finally have it figured out.

RD is still the best lynch, but I would accept a lynch on Rach.

[Psyche]

Are there two or three claimed docs?

[kondi2424]

Three.

[Rainbowdash]

Ok im going to bit the bridle at this point and put the vote down

Vote kondi

For the recent things we have

1) The vote on Bit. This makes 0 sense from a town perspective - the doctor claims should be entirely off limits unless there is physical proof of a SK, which makes me think kondi is scum who knows a SK exists. This meshes with the fact that UN constantly seemed to assume there was a SK.
2) Even in his last post, he continues to try and look like he is scumhunting, but never actually changes his original arguement of me being scum but goes elsewhere. This is giving the illusion of scumhunting while actually just sitting on me without giving a single reason as to his vote.
3) He was afraid of voting me. I think this actually is a tell since he knows im good at being able to argue as town and get who I want lynched. It wasnt until I started making it clear I still thought he was scum and I was considering votin Bit to be a scumtell that he abandoned that wagon. Even with that he would not actually vote me until he thought that there was support to my wagon. This is not town mentallity.

Im thinking its kondi-trevor-psyche as scum with one of BK/RM as the SK. Scum flip means that all doctors are protecting Near, even though it probably doesnt work unless kondi is scum who hasnt used power.

[Psyche]

What makes RM seem clear?

[Psyche]

Oh.

I mean, where are you getting SK-Mafioso distinctions, then?

[Rainbowdash]

Oh.

I mean, where are you getting SK-Mafioso distinctions, then?

I dont think BK or RM are scum. But doctor-mafia means one of them picks up the SK slot. I would be willing to swap you and RM I guess, but im not at all happy lynching RM because I really think she would be in the exact same spot as town, mafia or SK here and given that I cant distinguish it, im not really going to try and just go with my null-town read.

[Psyche]

:/

Indecision, indecision...

Your case isn't convincing enough because it still seems endemic to kondi's playstyle. But kondi's style is pretty unwavering, so it doesn't really matter.

I,'ll try isoing and looking for meta differences.

[Rainbowdash]

Your case isn't convincing enough because it still seems endemic to kondi's playstyle. But kondi's style is pretty unwavering, so it doesn't really matter.

Im tired of hearing the "just VI" arguement, especially regarding players like kondi who while they arent all stars are far better than most give them credit for. If you want to argue horrible player at least use that on Umbrage or somepony like that who truely is crappy beyond reason at this game.

If it quacks like a duck



duck says it all

duck must be terminated

most awesome case ever - it actually has video

we can still turn this around if you actually vote kondi

[kondi2424]

1) The vote on Bit. This makes 0 sense from a town perspective - the doctor claims should be entirely off limits unless there is physical proof of a SK, which makes me think kondi is scum who knows a SK exists. This meshes with the fact that UN constantly seemed to assume there was a SK.

Already explained that the extent of my scumread on Bitmap made it not matter that he was a Doctor. When someone is scum, and you feel sure of it, you lynch them. Besides, if we never lynch Docs, there will most likely never be proof of an SK. They are Docs, you know. You're also ignoring the fact that you're assuming there's an SK for no apparent reason as well, other then the fact that you have a scumread on shotgun's slot. From an outsider's view, not as scummy as wanting a lynch on a Doc because of it, but still assuming there's an SK.

2) Even in his last post, he continues to try and look like he is scumhunting, but never actually changes his original arguement of me being scum but goes elsewhere. This is giving the illusion of scumhunting while actually just sitting on me without giving a single reason as to his vote.

BS. Allow me to direct you to my reasoning, which you haven't defended against:

RD, I'm really trying not to vote you today. You're really obvious mafia, and I can give evidence with the limited amount of reading I've done. You pushed a lynch on inte, the claimed Tracker, who you had to have known was VI material and had a role that could at least be semi-confirmable. You're one of those players that is consistently either right, NKed, or scum, and while that's WIFOM and can probably be "disproven" by an outlier, you know it has some merit to it. You've consistently found reasons not to lynch the Doctor claims. Your reasoning for this has been flimsy - until now, your reasoning has been that you won't consider it until you have evidence of an SK, but now that it's LyLo, you're considering an SK but now leaning on the fact that there's more probability of lynching scum in a VT claim than a Doctor claim. (On that note, I'd rather lynch someone I'm sure of being scum and is more likely to be Mafia in the 33% scum group [Bitmap] than lynch someone I have a moderate scumread on that has a 75% chance of being scum [Rach] with a likely SK in the mix)

There's likely more, and that's enough for me to want to vote, but I can't out-argue people like you when they're Mafia. A good example of this is a Newbie game, "The Mafia are due on Maple Street," where fitz was scum, I tried to put up a clear case on him, and he slithered his way into someone else's lynch.

I think this is enough. The first point has more merit than the others.

3) He was afraid of voting me. I think this actually is a tell since he knows im good at being able to argue as town and get who I want lynched. It wasnt until I started making it clear I still thought he was scum and I was considering votin Bit to be a scumtell that he abandoned that wagon. Even with that he would not actually vote me until he thought that there was support to my wagon. This is not town mentallity.

More BS. You're good at arguing, and that's a true statement regardless of alignment. There's also no point in voting someone that won't be lynched, and I felt sure that both of you were scum at the time.

[Psyche]

(Kondi's not a VI.)

[BK201]

Check it out, no quick-lynch.

Either Kondi is scum or at least 2 of Bitmap, RBD, and myself are scum.

[Rainbowdash]

Already explained that the extent of my scumread on Bitmap made it not matter that he was a Doctor. When someone is scum, and you feel sure of it, you lynch them. Besides, if we never lynch Docs, there will most likely never be proof of an SK. They are Docs, you know. You're also ignoring the fact that you're assuming there's an SK for no apparent reason as well, other then the fact that you have a scumread on shotgun's slot. From an outsider's view, not as scummy as wanting a lynch on a Doc because of it, but still assuming there's an SK.

I think there is a SK due to how so many are very intent on there being a SK and actually have laid down doctor votes which I dont really see if there is no SK. Either way while I do agree with there being a SK, im not about to essentially risk the entire game on there being one AND being correct over who it is. Also in the end did you just say "I am scummy but you are sort of scummy for doing something similar"?

BS. Allow me to direct you to my reasoning, which you haven't defended against:

You mean that case thats basically 'isnt obv town' and 'pushed inte lynch'? Yeah thats basically a case full of logical fallacies and burden of proficency. Im not the best town player in existance and have complete ability to be wrong about some things.

Also are you using "did not want to lynch doctor claims" as a scumtell now when in response to part one you used thinking there is a SK as a scumtell? You cant have it both ways you know.

More BS. You're good at arguing, and that's a true statement regardless of alignment. There's also no point in voting someone that won't be lynched, and I felt sure that both of you were scum at the time.

So as town you were afraid to vote somepony who you thought was scum and had a case to back it up? I dont believe that one, especially when you have no problem voting me with only a single non-reasoned vote of support. The fact that DMS/Trevor had no reason almost makes it WORSE because if im going to snap on somepony for voting without reason its not a bad bet it would be DMS who I already said I thought was scum.

[kondi2424]

Already explained that the extent of my scumread on Bitmap made it not matter that he was a Doctor. When someone is scum, and you feel sure of it, you lynch them. Besides, if we never lynch Docs, there will most likely never be proof of an SK. They are Docs, you know. You're also ignoring the fact that you're assuming there's an SK for no apparent reason as well, other then the fact that you have a scumread on shotgun's slot. From an outsider's view, not as scummy as wanting a lynch on a Doc because of it, but still assuming there's an SK.

I think there is a SK due to how so many are very intent on there being a SK and actually have laid down doctor votes which I dont really see if there is no SK. Either way while I do agree with there being a SK, im not about to essentially risk the entire game on there being one AND being correct over who it is.

Also in the end did you just say "I am scummy but you are sort of scummy for doing something similar"?

No, I'm saying that you're saying my assuming there's an SK is scummy while yours is not. Either they both are or both aren't.

BS. Allow me to direct you to my reasoning, which you haven't defended against:

You mean that case thats basically 'isnt obv town' and 'pushed inte lynch'? Yeah thats basically a case full of logical fallacies and burden of proficency. Im not the best town player in existance and have complete ability to be wrong about some things.

You pushing the inte lynch is the main reason you are scummy to me. All you're doing is calling out the bad parts in the case without addressing the damning part.

Also are you using "did not want to lynch doctor claims" as a scumtell now when in response to part one you used thinking there is a SK as a scumtell? You cant have it both ways you know.

You've constantly been against lynching the Doctors despite the fact that it was safe until today. You were also against there being an SK until today, when thinking there was an SK previously meant a Doctor lynch was okay.

The base of the scumminess is in the first sentence, and is why I bothered to point it out. The second sentence may be a coincidence even if you are scum, but there's the possibility that you wanted to show belief in an SK all along but couldn't because it would make a Doctor lynch okay.

More BS. You're good at arguing, and that's a true statement regardless of alignment. There's also no point in voting someone that won't be lynched, and I felt sure that both of you were scum at the time.

So as town you were afraid to vote somepony who you thought was scum and had a case to back it up?

Yes. I was afraid because you are good at making a convincing argument, which means that you could end up slithering out of my case. As I said earlier, this happened with havingfitz in this Newbie game. I had a good case, but it got torn up by scum-fitz.

The bolded parts are expamples of where you twisted my words in that post.

[kondi2424]

Psyche, I should be obvious town to you by now.

[Rainbowdash]

No, I'm saying that you're saying my assuming there's an SK is scummy while yours is not. Either they both are or both aren't.

Thats not what im saying exactly.

There is nothing wrong with at this point in the game assuming there is an SK though. By voting a doctor though, if there is no SK, it would cost us the game if we mislynch there. Despite it being probable to the extent that im going to scumhunt like there is a SK, we do NOT lynch as if there is one, because a doctor mislynch with none is an auto-loss. That is why its scummy, as town I think you would notice the fact that if you were wrong you lose. As scum I think you just notice that there are lynchable doctors and go for it.

You pushing the inte lynch is the main reason you are scummy to me. All you're doing is calling out the bad parts in the case without addressing the damning part.

I would lynch inte again in a heartbeat. He was legitiamtely scummy and botched his claim badly. Feel like I should refrence Spy here. He was scummy, he claimed like he was scum, I lynched him beause I thought he was scum. End of story.

You've constantly been against lynching the Doctors despite the fact that it was safe until today. You were also against there being an SK until today, when thinking there was an SK previously meant a Doctor lynch was okay.

The base of the scumminess is in the first sentence, and is why I bothered to point it out. The second sentence may be a coincidence even if you are scum, but there's the possibility that you wanted to show belief in an SK all along but couldn't because it would make a Doctor lynch okay.

Ive proven already why a doctor lynch is never okay out of there essentially being a confirmed SK. Are you trying to aruge here that I am scum because I tried to prevent a doctor lynch over the last couple days?

[kondi2424]

No, I'm saying that you're saying my assuming there's an SK is scummy while yours is not. Either they both are or both aren't.

Thats not what im saying exactly.

There is nothing wrong with at this point in the game assuming there is an SK though. By voting a doctor though, if there is no SK, it would cost us the game if we mislynch there. Despite it being probable to the extent that im going to scumhunt like there is a SK, we do NOT lynch as if there is one, because a doctor mislynch with none is an auto-loss. That is why its scummy, as town I think you would notice the fact that if you were wrong you lose. As scum I think you just notice that there are lynchable doctors and go for it.

A Doctor mislynch is not an autoloss. One of the other Doctors can get a protection, and if there's a liar in the Docs, the SK can still kill a Mafioso.

You pushing the inte lynch is the main reason you are scummy to me. All you're doing is calling out the bad parts in the case without addressing the damning part.

I would lynch inte again in a heartbeat. He was legitiamtely scummy and botched his claim badly. Feel like I should refrence Spy here. He was scummy, he claimed like he was scum, I lynched him beause I thought he was scum. End of story.

But he had a useful and provable role. And you were okay with lynching the Tracker claim, but the Doctor claims were a no-no. By your own logic, inte shouldn't have even been considered unless there was a proven SK.

You've constantly been against lynching the Doctors despite the fact that it was safe until today. You were also against there being an SK until today, when thinking there was an SK previously meant a Doctor lynch was okay.

The base of the scumminess is in the first sentence, and is why I bothered to point it out. The second sentence may be a coincidence even if you are scum, but there's the possibility that you wanted to show belief in an SK all along but couldn't because it would make a Doctor lynch okay.

Ive proven already why a doctor lynch is never okay out of there essentially being a confirmed SK. Are you trying to aruge here that I am scum because I tried to prevent a doctor lynch over the last couple days?

See above.

[Psyche]

Arrogance about one's scumreads is just a fact of being an experienced mser (see: "I am so sure of my bitmap scumread that I'm willing to quicklynch him in LYLO instead of undergoing further deliberation").

And kondi's not faking anything.

[Near]

Eh. Remembering the inte lynch... there were others who voted for inte, but it was lead by RBD.

Pretty much everything else RBD said also failed, including mass claim.

May be willing to vote RBD. At least I don't think I want to cast my vote on Kondi, who RBD is voting.

I will do some reading soon... hopefully there can be some figuring out that can be done.

[Psyche]

@ Mod V/LA till tomorrow

(of course this mod already knows that )



Sorry guys but I have to do a THIRD night of the sleep study they have determined I do have moderate sleep apnea and that the regular CPap is not going to work for me so now I have to try the bi-level one

back tomorrow though with more thoughts on this game.

What part of this did you boys not get? Seems like scum looking for an easy lynch. I had no internet access while I was doing the sleep study. I am back home and I really need a nap did not get much sleep last night with them putting the mask on and off and it beeping a fair bit and having to be readjusted.

I will be then commenting quite a BIT on this game.

-_-

[kondi2424]

Come on, Psyche. She's napping.