Ladies Night 2: No Cover -- (Game Over)

[DrippingGoofball]

hey, Lyanna Stark isn't on the player list?

[DrippingGoofball]

Madonnas

DrippingGoofball
Sucrose
Brandi
Seastormjt
MathGirl277
Tammy

Witches

RachMarie
Amrun
springlullaby
flinter
Fujiko
CityElectric
Eidolon
Bunnylover
Huntress

Hos

PiggyGal15
camn
Telo

[Sucrose]

hey, Lyanna Stark isn't on the player list?

Theme character of Tammy's. Accidental post.

[camn]

OK.. Lets go over this game again. I will comment on the camn-hate, but it is nonsense, and is all just DGB-sheeping considering I hadn't even begun to play.
Firstly... my short, no-reason posting was intentional. I have been doing that lately to sort out folks... those that aren't paying attention, those that attack for pedantic reasons like 'tells', and those people that are actually interested in peoples reasoning. But I got a little behind in following up :/

ON A DIFFERENT NOTE- I want this

piggy

wagon to accelerate.
I agree that her intro posts were very awkward... and I totally agree with DGB here:

Well, I hope scum can be active

Just name your partners. From the above comment, I suspect they've all posted already.

that that comment of piggy's was not random. I think she was totally coaching her scumpartners. . .

while at the same time

setting up an excuse to not have any reads for a couple days . It was kind of brilliant, actually... Lets look at it again:

if I don't get reads till late day 2 in mini games... how in the world am I going to ever have any reads at all in here? Well, I hope scum can be active...

I hate it. Now she can be like "gosh! I just cant get any reads!"

VOTE: PIGGYGIRL

Furthermore, I agree that the pro-RVS commentary was baffling. That's why Sucrose caught my vote. But those days are done. The discussion does give me quite a townread on Amrun, though.

Back to me..

CityElectric's

vote in post 97 on me is pretty weak. Lets check it out:

I don't want to leave my vote on Amrun, because she simply isn't the scummiest player to me right now. So, I'm going to:

UNVOTE:
VOTE: camn

, for that Sucrose vote.

Note my vote (post75) was DIRECTLY after Amruns vote (post 74), formatted the same, and for the same reason. Given my utter lack of play.. Electrics above statement seem disingenuous, at best. It imoplies I am scummier than Amrun for doing exactly what Amrun did. Just the kind of reaction I ninja-vote to elicit.

Electric

! What about the vote was scummy to you? I really wanna know.

Also, Sucrose's 121 is very town, IMO. I can't see a mafia going out of their way to actually look back at post order and such on something so trivial, especially in a way that defends me. Unless she and I are scum together, of course

So, for now.. my preliminary thoughts:

Town

:

Amrun
Sucrose

Scum

:

Electric
piggy

Not a Day one lynch option... ever.

DGB

[Huntress]

I always get a bit suspicious when people agree with me too much in a mafia game, and Sucrose's post 80, which mirrors my post 60, even to the use of similar wording (opportunistic/opportunism) near the end, is a case in point. The timeline of the posts is odd too:

Post 53, Seastorm votes Piggy
Post 60, I vote Seastorm
Post 63, Piggy replies to Seastorm
Post 64, Sucrose posts, not mentioning the above
Post 66, Seastorm replies to Piggy
Post 67, Piggy unvotes her self-vote
Posts 68and 69, Seastorm jokes with Piggy and says she was about to reconsider her vote
Two more posts, 70 and 73, by Sucrose, still not mentioning Seastorm.
post 74, Amrun votes Sucrose
post 75, camn votes Sucrose
And only then does Sucrose make her post 80 voting Seastorm. All in all, it looks like her vote is promted more by the attention she is getting from Amrun and Camn than actual suspicion of Seastorm.

Why didn't you have anything to say about the Piggy situation? This is literally your only post so far, and the Piggy thing was way more attention gathering than Seastorm. You don't have anything to say about it?

My vote on Seastorm

was

a comment on Piggy's wagon. I thought she was going for low-hanging fruit. Apart from Piggy herself there were only three votes on the wagon before Sea voted. DrippingGoofball's was at least partially a joke, Arun's could have been genuine but looked more like a reaction test, Brandi's could also have been genuine. In other words it looked like a normal randomish bandwagon to start the day. Seastorm's vote was different though. That's why it got my attention.

I've got a few more people to comment on but I've run out of time so they'll have to wait for tomorrow now.

[Tammy]

What kind of blip on your radar did it have? What type of joker did you come to the conclusion that piggygirl was?

Unfortunately when you go to assess what type of joker another person is the mirror you hold them up against is usually your own. Since I really didn't get the duck part of the joke and I can't read the small writing (is there a way to magnify it?) I don't really know. It looks like it says psyduck but that makes no sense to me. She says it's a pokeman reference so it went over my head as I'm not familiar with pokeman I can't tell if the joke makes sense or if it's a misdirection.

It only served to confuse me and make me squint. In the next post she admits to sarcasm. Now that I get. I can't tell if the previous post was in fact sarcastic but I do know sarcasm is a defense mechanism. That's when I got my blip. After that she makes no more jokes so I can't give any more of a read than that.

If the jokes mean nothing to you, why go on about how jokes could be alignment relevant? What kind of Blip Are you referring to? In Post 145 you comment on people but not on piggy, why are you avoiding commenting on her?

You say that you got a blip when she was sarcastic because it's a defense mechanism. Are you saying this is scummy? Why can't you read her because she doesn't make any more jokes?

[RedCoyote]

Vote Count 1 - 6

• Seastormjt

  (4) (MathGirl277 - Huntress - Sucrose - Brandi)
  
  
  PiggyGal15
  (3) (DrippingGoofball - Seastormjt - camn)
  
  
  camn
  (2) (CityElectric - flinter)
  
  
  springlullaby
  (2) (Eidolon - Bunnylover)
  
  
  Sucrose
  (1) (Amrun -

  camn

  )
  
  
  RachMarie
  (1) (Telo)
  
  
  Brandi
  (1) (springlullaby)
  
  
  Eidolon
  (1) (Fujiko)
  
  
  Huntress
  (1) (Tammy)
  
  
  Not Voting
  (2) (RachMarie - PiggyGal15 -

  camn

  )

With eighteen alive, it takes ten to lynch.
Current Deadline:

(expired on 2012-10-11 12:10:00)

[Telo]

@ Tammy: I never said the joke means nothing. The fact that she made the joke tells me -something- What I said was it went over my head. I don't know what psyduck (if that's what it says) means.
I also never said alignment relevant. That's not a term that I've ever used so you might be confusing me with someone else.
I didn't comment on piggy in 145 because I'd already commented on her and with so many players in the game I'm not going to get bogged down by just one. I also didn't comment on a bunch of other people. I have a lot more to scrutinize.

But yes, I do find sarcasm to be a defense mechanism which puts a blip on my radar however I'm not prepared to call piggy scummy until I'm ready to place a vote on her. I haven't seen nearly enough to determine that yet.

[Tammy]

Don't like camn's Post 153 as it feels like agreeing with dgb to lessen the suspicion already expressed. Also, the suspicion expressed against both piggygirl and city electric feels really weak and superficial. I doubt very seriously that piggy would be coaching her scum partners as if anything shed be the one in need of coaching. Piggy's entrance and posts were awkward, but there's no assessment beyond that, and it appears that she's just building reasons to sheep rather than to determine piggy's alignment.

Her points on city electric read just as bad. I'm not sure if she missed city electric saying that this is her first game out of newbie alley, but it seems rather odd to me that both of her scum reads are new players/people who will probably make themselves look worse if they try to defend themselves.

However, I know camn can analyze players better than this, so I'm even at a loss why scum camn would go after these two as they really look too easy and obvious.

[Tammy]

I always get a bit suspicious when people agree with me too much in a mafia game, and Sucrose's post 80, which mirrors my post 60, even to the use of similar wording (opportunistic/opportunism) near the end, is a case in point. The timeline of the posts is odd too:

Post 53, Seastorm votes Piggy
Post 60, I vote Seastorm
Post 63, Piggy replies to Seastorm
Post 64, Sucrose posts, not mentioning the above
Post 66, Seastorm replies to Piggy
Post 67, Piggy unvotes her self-vote
Posts 68and 69, Seastorm jokes with Piggy and says she was about to reconsider her vote
Two more posts, 70 and 73, by Sucrose, still not mentioning Seastorm.
post 74, Amrun votes Sucrose
post 75, camn votes Sucrose
And only then does Sucrose make her post 80 voting Seastorm. All in all, it looks like her vote is promted more by the attention she is getting from Amrun and Camn than actual suspicion of Seastorm.

Why didn't you have anything to say about the Piggy situation? This is literally your only post so far, and the Piggy thing was way more attention gathering than Seastorm. You don't have anything to say about it?

My vote on Seastorm

was

a comment on Piggy's wagon. I thought she was going for low-hanging fruit. Apart from Piggy herself there were only three votes on the wagon before Sea voted. DrippingGoofball's was at least partially a joke, Arun's could have been genuine but looked more like a reaction test, Brandi's could also have been genuine. In other words it looked like a normal randomish bandwagon to start the day. Seastorm's vote was different though. That's why it got my attention.

I've got a few more people to comment on but I've run out of time so they'll have to wait for tomorrow now.

Did you notice that sucrose's post 64 was two minutes after post 63 and referenced a post 20 posts before? You say she didn't comment in the few posts before, but is there any indication that she had gotten that far in her read and was intentionally ignoring it at that point?

Amrun votes her Thursday night and camn votes her Friday morning, it's Friday morning that sucrose comments/votes sea storm. If she was so worried by the pressure and needed to do something about it, why didn't she do it Thursday night?

And you may consider that your vote was a comment on the wagon, and in a way it was, but it's not really and you've still avoided commenting on it. You still have not commented on what you think about piggygirl and the wagon on her. You've said what you the each vote is, but that's not the same thing.

[Tammy]

@ Tammy: I never said the joke means nothing. The fact that she made the joke tells me -something- What I said was it went over my head. I don't know what psyduck (if that's what it says) means.
I also never said alignment relevant. That's not a term that I've ever used so you might be confusing me with someone else.
I didn't comment on piggy in 145 because I'd already commented on her and with so many players in the game I'm not going to get bogged down by just one. I also didn't comment on a bunch of other people. I have a lot more to scrutinize.

But yes, I do find sarcasm to be a defense mechanism which puts a blip on my radar however I'm not prepared to call piggy scummy until I'm ready to place a vote on her. I haven't seen nearly enough to determine that yet.

Did not say you used the term alignment-relevant. That was my term, However that was your meaning when you talked about the different types of jokes and what they would mean.

You never commented on piggy though, you talked about things around nd about her, but you didn't say what it means, which you yourself identify when you say you're not ready to call her scummy until you're ready to place a vote on her. How come you gave huntress a town read based on her one post, but you can't make a determination, even cursory, on piggy who has been one of the main topics of conversation and has at least 5 times as many posts?

[Sucrose]

I always get a bit suspicious when people agree with me too much in a mafia game, and Sucrose's post 80, which mirrors my post 60, even to the use of similar wording (opportunistic/opportunism) near the end, is a case in point. The timeline of the posts is odd too:

Post 53, Seastorm votes Piggy
Post 60, I vote Seastorm
Post 63, Piggy replies to Seastorm
Post 64, Sucrose posts, not mentioning the above
Post 66, Seastorm replies to Piggy
Post 67, Piggy unvotes her self-vote
Posts 68and 69, Seastorm jokes with Piggy and says she was about to reconsider her vote
Two more posts, 70 and 73, by Sucrose, still not mentioning Seastorm.
post 74, Amrun votes Sucrose
post 75, camn votes Sucrose
And only then does Sucrose make her post 80 voting Seastorm. All in all, it looks like her vote is promted more by the attention she is getting from Amrun and Camn than actual suspicion of Seastorm.

Why didn't you have anything to say about the Piggy situation? This is literally your only post so far, and the Piggy thing was way more attention gathering than Seastorm. You don't have anything to say about it?

My vote on Seastorm

was

a comment on Piggy's wagon. I thought she was going for low-hanging fruit. Apart from Piggy herself there were only three votes on the wagon before Sea voted. DrippingGoofball's was at least partially a joke, Arun's could have been genuine but looked more like a reaction test, Brandi's could also have been genuine. In other words it looked like a normal randomish bandwagon to start the day. Seastorm's vote was different though. That's why it got my attention.

I've got a few more people to comment on but I've run out of time so they'll have to wait for tomorrow now.

You're right, I was sheeping your point, I only noticed the incident on re-read. It was a good find. I'm doubtful I would have noticed how few hours had passed between Piggy's post and Sea's on my own, because I usually never pay attention to timestamps.

[RachMarie]

hmnm I am still catching up here, but the defense of Piggy by Telo is setting off alarms on my scumdar. Instead of focusing so much on defending Piggy why not focus on making a case on someone. I do understand you are not always at a computer when you post, but the last few responses in defense of Piggy seem a bit too much of dancing around the edges of something.

[Tammy]

hmnm I am still catching up here, but the defense of Piggy by Telo is setting off alarms on my scumdar. Instead of focusing so much on defending Piggy why not focus on making a case on someone. I do understand you are not always at a computer when you post, but the last few responses in defense of Piggy seem a bit too much of dancing around the edges of something.

Where and how did Telo defend piggy?

[CityElectric]

@ Camn: Post 139. There you have your reasoning.

[camn]

Too bad it says nothing.
Your lack of real curiousity disturbs me.

[RachMarie]

As far as my opinions on the game so far:

The piggy wagon raised a blip on my radar. In hunting I typically look for slips of the 'tounge' (fingers and mind when playing in a forum) lies, and misdirection. Jokes by their nature are funny because of those three things. But- joking is also sometimes just a part of a personality. It's a big part of mine so when I see a person who's a joker I make note to pay attention to what kind of joker they are. A social joker, a nervous joker, a person that makes jokes to misdirect.

Focuses on the wagon but does not state her own opinion on Piggy.

On

Huntress

: Only one real vote but when a player gives their reason and backs it up with a vote they go up a notch in my esteem. Of course I reserve the right to amend this but I think Huntress is town who thinks she got off a good shot.
On

Tammy

: Getting lots of info out there and promoting activity. The fact that your vote is on Huntress who I'm reading as town doesn't make me think you're scum. It just means that one of us is wrong about her.
On

Camn

: That sort of introduction always makes me leery. When people claim to know more than they should it makes me suspicious. She says she will prove it once her wheels get spinning so I'm watching for that.
On

flinter

: Said almost exactly what I was thinking and placed a vote on camn. I'll be following to see if our thinking stays in tuned.
On

Brandi

still doing the extra reading assigned in post #89

Focuses on a few other players and STILL nothing about Piggy.

Still has her vote on me from RVS and has not placed it somewhere more serious yet. This by itself is kinda nullish, but in combination with the above posts where she dances around the Piggy wagon, it seems rather suspicious.



VOTE: Telo

[Eidolon]

a lot of stuff going on in this game. hopefully i will have some good reads after i'm done reading through. tonight or tomorrow.

So far, i'm liking DGB, amrun, cityelectric, maybe tammy as town.

Camns 136 sits odd with me. the decleration of townieness, the unvote, the way she used kill instead of lynch, idk. just giving me bad thoughts.

don't really like bunny either right now but not sure.

[Eidolon]

I feel like camn was helping to derail the piggy wagon with the sucrose vote, and then when she started taking heat for it, decided to bus.

of course, that assumes that piggy is scum, but i'm not even sure that she is. let me iso her.

[camn]

Your 'feelings' don't even make sense.

How on earth did I help derail the piggy wagon?
And when did I take heat for it?

Keep trying... you can create a crap case if you try very hard

[Eidolon]

You voted on the counter to her wagon.

People started saying "oh camn is scummy, she voted without reason"

(which i agree isn't scummy in and of itself, but they might have had an accurate hunch)

And then you decide to go after piggy, once more people seem to think she's scum...

I mean, it's not that difficult yet you seem to not be able to figure this out. Scum like to play dumb.

[Eidolon]

Anyways, this was just something that stuck out at a quick glance. i'll go over in more detail tomorrow.

[camn]

Oh fun, insults instead of logic!

I await your more detailed explanation.

[Eidolon]

Camn, I used pretty clear logic to dismantle the "insult instead of logic!" that you threw at me in your post 169.

I had to put a little snip at the end to respond in kind

But the misrep and continual avoidance of my point is noted.

[Eidolon]

Piggy - I’m leaning slight town on her. I think she gives off newbtown vibes because she is squirmy under pressure, but not overly defensive, which newb scum usually are. She’s throwing her thoughts out openly. Some of her posts are bad. But what makes them scummy? The RVS is something I’ve seen newb town do. The response to that pressure is open and careless. That doesn’t sound like scum! she’s been bombing, but she‘s not even TRYING which seems town. Piggy, what are your thoughts of the wagon that popped up on you?

Need to hear more of:

Flinter
Bunnylover
Mathgirl

Scummy:

Telo - her response on the piggy wagon. She is very wishy-washy about it. It gives credence to my thought that piggy is town, because she’s nervous to put a vote up for a town. Anyone catch her 145? Really bad. Reads are seeping with the need to hide. Her 130 brings O.o Telo, please tell me who are your strong scum reads and who are your strong town reads?

Camn - Pushed easy wagon only once it got a lot of support. No scum hunting. Claims to put her vote on sucrose for reactions, gives NO READS on those reactions. A strange 136 which is really fabricated. Camn, what are your thoughts of reactions to your vote?

Fujiko- Weak pushes, weak defense of piggy, no scumhunting. Look at the ISO. Fujiko, what do you think of piggy and telo at this point?

Piggy would be nice as scum, because it would make camn and telo obv to me, but I really think that she is confused town. O.o

The rest I have town to null on. Will give town reads if needed.

I will support any of these wagons in my scummy section and they all need to be pressured more.

Vote Camn

Really don't like that she voted sucrose for reactions and has given no analysis of those reactions. i don't like her easy push on piggy in replace of that analysis. i don't like her response to my earlier pressure on me and would like to hear more of her actual reasoning behind her play so far.