The Dresden Files - Early Days Mafia (Bastard) - Over

[pidgey]

Even if i think he is town, being l-1 and then declaring a week vacation is just a shit move that is not going to help him at all and yeah i want his claim at this point.

[Thor665]

I have no read on him at all, and that is meaningless to the point even if I did.

So you're criticizing my vote on someone who you don't have a read on?

@Anyone voting CKD - he looks town, what is this gak?

And then follow that up by attacking the other leading wagon.

That make literally no sense.

Why not?

I have a town read on CKD and my issue with your wagon of fail has nothing to do with any read on the slot. The two thoughts easily and fully work together.

You don't think that the case on GreyCIE is good, you think that the wagon is weird, we have conf. scum in Thor, but if GreyIC doesn't claim we should lynch him? I don't see how that can possibly make sense.

So you're saying you totally believe Klick's claim of being a Daycop + other stuff?
Tell me why?

[Thor665]

I'm not censoring myself. I can still say Smurf. Lol. I just dont want to appear like a troll.

BTW im kinda on self impossed mafia rehabilitation about using the word Smurf a lot so i'll try to keep The Beast Tamed.

Tell me more.

Again, you're saying you're doing this in a lot of games - but you're using different langauge in this one as opposed to the one you linked. Also, if I think you're trying to clean up a scum meta then I don't actually find it relevant that you're doing it in more than one game, especially if you're being dodgy about your reasoning to do it.

Also, you never actually defeated Slandaar's case. I'll agree his case was wrong, but it was a valid case and one you couldn't beat, and one that helped get you lynched while being cop confirmed town. So...yes, I think it is quite logical that you would try to change that up.

@Someone who knows the fluff

- how much sense does it make for a werewolf to be an investigative role and why would Georgia not make sense?

@ICEninja - I think the Pidgey thing has a purpose, your wagon of choice is at L-1 the *worst* the Pidgey discussion can do is help weaken other wagons from getting any steam, so...?

[pidgey]

Im not being dodgy about my reasoning goddamit. Did you even fucking asked? My reasoning is Nero Cain /outed of a game I /ined into and we talked about it and he thought i was basically irritating to play with. Hence why im trying to get better.

Look thor if you are doing this as scum or as town i dont have a clue but regardless its stupid. You are trying to connect me trying to be a more pleasant player as something scummy when the fact is im doing it in every single game ive played since i talked with Nero.

Tell me in exact words how IM USING A DIFFERENT LANGUAGE and HOW IS IT SCUMMY IF IM DOING THAT. TELL ME EXACTLY HOW WOULD YOU GET A SCUM READ OUT OF THIS SUPPOSED LIE? You are not even grasping at straws here, you are pulling imaginarry threads.

[StefanB]

Zdenek: Hm, what?
Why should I follow you on Thor? Because I believe you are scum and therefore sheep you or because of Klicks claim, which I believe is fake?
Sorry to ask a scumread to sheep you, while knowing that the person believes you are scum, that is okay incredible or just completly insane.

On the other hand Thor why are you asking about the flavour of an obvious fakeclaim like you believe it?

[Shmugen]

Essentially, the werewolf Klick is claiming is one of a group of college kids who learn how to be werewolves and use it to protect their college neighborhood from supernatural hoodoo. It sounds a lot better in the books. Georgia Borden is a psycology major, some sort of werewolf psycology daycop ability is not outside the realm of possibility.

[StefanB]

Goodknight, about Klick hope that this is over when I wake again.

[Zdenek]

Why not?

Because you are attacking votes on small wagons on people who you don't have reads on, and you also don't approve of votes on one of the leading wagons. If you wanted people to consolidate their votes, you should be happier with the leading wagons and if you're not happy with the leading wagons, you should be fine with people looking elsewhere.

So you're saying you totally believe Klick's claim of being a Daycop + other stuff?
Tell me why?

I think your slot is scum, and his investigation validates that read.

Why should I follow you on Thor? Because I believe you are scum and therefore sheep you or because of Klicks claim, which I believe is fake?
Sorry to ask a scumread to sheep you, while knowing that the person believes you are scum, that is okay incredible or just completly insane.

First of all, your case on me is one of the dumbest things I have ever seen. It frankly seems to me like you think I am scum for pointing out something that you think is scummy, which is laughable. Then, you ignore the fact that Sixty did the thing that you find scummy, by quoting just a single line of the post where they do it. I wouldn't care so much if you where arguing that in this case, for some reason, you don't think that it's a scum tell, but what you are doing is arguing that I am scum, for thinking that it's scummy, which is bizarre.

Secondly, you were voting Kimor, at some point he gave you the worst vibes of anyone. You have never said that you think that Thor is town, now there's a daycop saying that Thor is scum, and you are convinced that it is a lie, and unwilling to vote there.

That really makes no sense, and basically confirms you as scum. Either as scum who was happy to bus Kimor, but unwilling to bus Thor or as scum, who is not scum with Thor.

[ICEninja]

Hmm well...werewolves do have heightened senses, and a tracker claim from Georgia would make absolute 100% sense.

I suppose the flavor could be twisted a bit to make it work. What I'm more thinking about is Stefan's post 563, reminding me that scum Klick has a lot more to lose than gain in this situation. However, my most recent game involved my scum buddy Equinox claiming day cop on day 1 and it was hugely advantageous for us. I also lost a game a while back because scum fake claimed day cop and no one believed that move could have come from scum.

I suppose I knee jerk reacted to the claim, not believing it, but this situation is a bit different. If Klick and GreyICE are scum buddies, then this would be a preposterously stupid move. So in my eyes, we really have 1 of 3 situations:
1) Klick is scum, and is playing a gambit for motives OTHER than saving a scum buddy.
2) Klick is town, is telling the truth, and Thor is indeed scum. Or at least he believes he's telling the truth anyway, bastard game after all. Georgia is among the most sane of all the characters in story though, Georgia being an insane day cop just doesn't make sense.
3) Klick is town, lied about his claim, and probably damaged town significantly. (If this is the case, I BEG YOU to unclaim and explain your actions).

It does kind of seem like 2 is the most likely, to be honest. And if it's 1, the likelihood of us getting a lynch on scum during day 2 is quite good.

I need a few hours to mull this over. It kind of looks like (in cost/benefit analysis terms) that the positives of acting upon Klick's claim outweigh the negatives.

[Thor665]

Tell me in exact words how IM USING A DIFFERENT LANGUAGE and HOW IS IT SCUMMY IF IM DOING THAT. TELL ME EXACTLY HOW WOULD YOU GET A SCUM READ OUT OF THIS SUPPOSED LIE? You are not even grasping at straws here, you are pulling imaginarry threads.

I have done this already.
Read m0ar.

On the other hand Thor why are you asking about the flavour of an obvious fakeclaim like you believe it?

Are you rolefishing? It feels like you're rolefishing.

Because you are attacking votes on small wagons on people who you don't have reads on, and you also don't approve of votes on one of the leading wagons. If you wanted people to consolidate their votes, you should be happier with the leading wagons and if you're not happy with the leading wagons, you should be fine with people looking elsewhere.

Yeah, it's totally crazy how I'm attacking the useless wagons and, of the big wagons, supporting one of them and opposing another.
There is no town motivation or logic behind that at all.

@Klick - do you have assured sanity with this Daycop? Because if you do I'm willing to self vote. Let me know.

[ICEninja]

Actually I meant to explain:

StefanB's 563 didn't directly make me realize this, but upon mulling it over I realized how much scum Klick would have to lose from doing this for the purpose of saving Grey scum buddy.

I still might prefer to lynch Grey, however, see how the night goes, and act upon this information tomorrow.

[Shmugen]

Very agreed.

[Thor665]

I'd say get a sanity claim from Klick and then I'm game for that.

[Klick]

No, it does not say that I'm guaranteed to be sane. However, I feel like the flavor heavily implies that I'm going to be sane in my investigations.

[Thor665]

Does the flavor say anything about your investigations?

[Klick]

Yes. There is flavor in the area that it tells me I have them.

I really doubt she has insane wolf senses. MAYBE paranoid, but I seriously doubt it.

[Thor665]

What implies they are trustworthy?

Paraphrase the fluff in that regard.

[greenknight]

@Klick - do you have assured sanity with this Daycop? Because if you do I'm willing to self vote. Let me know.

Why would there be ANY reason for town to self vote here? In addition to the possibility that Klick could be lying (both day cop claims I've run into on this site so far have been lies) it's a bastard game, which means that even if Klick is telling the truth the mod might have given him a false result for whatever reason.

To me Thor's statement reads as "please confirm this is real so I don't waste any further time on this game if it is" and that's more likely to be a scum PoV.

Vote: Thor665

[Thor665]

Yeah, it's not 'claim that it's valid and I can sac. for conf. scum lynch' play at all.

And if you know how I play you'd know I don't give up ever and would never do that sort of pansy 'meh, should I give up, plea - I'm still scumhunting over here - go meta me and come back with wisdom.

[ICEninja]

If the flavor is Georgia can smell the guilt/non guilt of a player I'd trust its sanity. The wolves track people by their superhuman senses on multiple occasions in the book. If you want to put the werewolves on a D&D alignment scale, they're pretty much lawful good and trustworthy. Nothing rattles them until book 12ish, and there's absolutely no reason to question their sanity. To be honest I'd trust the night actions of a confirmed Georgia more than my own.

To me Thor's statement reads as "please confirm this is real so I don't waste any further time on this game if it is" and that's more likely to be a scum PoV.

Really? To me it reads "please don't believe this obvious bullshit". Either he's town and he knows its obviously bullshit or he's scum and reacting exactly as town would/should in this situation. Had Thor flipped out and voted Klick on the spot, I wouldn't have had any reservations whatsoever lynching Thor right now, Grey can wait.

That being said, I've heard a fair amount about Thor being an exceptionally good player, so I'm doing my best to read it as null, and simply go off of the reasoning that town will VERY likely get a scum lynch because of this information one way or another.

I'm actually leaning towards believing Klick after thinking about it, despite giving Georgia daycop being weird. But I'm so hesitant to simply drop the Grey wagon, even for a day, based on how sure I was right on him.

[Sixty]

Yeah, it's not 'claim that it's valid and I can sac. for conf. scum lynch' play at all.

And if you know how I play you'd know I don't give up ever and would never do that sort of pansy 'meh, should I give up, plea - I'm still scumhunting over here - go meta me and come back with wisdom.

Except you

do

this kind of thing as scum to gain time and cause Town to doubt themselves, dahling. Do you want wisdom? Here is your wisdom:

Also, to explain the self-vote, it was VERY strategically decided upon.
I needed something to slow them down, because town was RIGHT and a lot of town believed the right things. I had to do *something* to shake it up enough to get them to slow down.

Self votes do that. I'm not sure why, but town is instinctively scared off by self votes. They start to feel like something is wrong and will usually try to talk stuff out more (though note; there are some players who immediately vote anyone who self votes - and I think that's not an unwise strategy). So, it was a major risk, but my read on Thunder as a player, and my suspicion of what sort of player Thunder is, led me to conclude neither of them would want to "rush" things.

So, the self vote edged everyone off of me, and then gave me the opening to muscle up this Kondi case (aided by Kondi's fail of JKing on Night 2...which though it hurt me, opened him up as a mislynch target too - so a bit of win/lose there)

Rarf, etc. We would still prefer to lynch Grey and let Thor be picked off Tonight/Tomorrow, should Klick confirm he's not gambiting. The GreyICE flip will produce more information in terms of who voted where and why.

[greenknight]

Really? To me it reads "please don't believe this obvious bullshit". Either he's town and he knows its obviously bullshit or he's scum and reacting exactly as town would/should in this situation. Had Thor flipped out and voted Klick on the spot, I wouldn't have had any reservations whatsoever lynching Thor right now, Grey can wait.

What? The town reaction I generally see and expect regarding fake investigations is "WTF I know I'm town, X is lying, vote X."

[pidgey]

Tell me in exact words how IM USING A DIFFERENT LANGUAGE and HOW IS IT SCUMMY IF IM DOING THAT. TELL ME EXACTLY HOW WOULD YOU GET A SCUM READ OUT OF THIS SUPPOSED LIE? You are not even grasping at straws here, you are pulling imaginarry threads.

I have done this already.
Read m0ar.

k Im gay

[pidgey]

ROFL, why would you even mention selfvoting anyway if you were town or scum? This is just a weird thing to say...

Sixty, do you honestly 100% believe jason is town?

[Shmugen]

Pidgey, do you honestly 100% believe Jason is the play for the day?