Newbie 1315: Van Helsing (Over)

[Bitmap]

Walls of reads or a separate post for each read?

Walls of reads. The man could write a fucking short story in one of those posts.

MagnaofIllusion

Oh lol. Yeah, that guy will post paragraphs after paragraphs after paragraphs about his scum reads. It's kind of tedious.

Yeah. To tell you the truth, because I find it hilarious that you guys hate walls I tried to post walls in each post like MoI in that game.

The guy hates me already. Lol.

[kwll]

sounds like playing with Thor.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

sounds like playing with Thor.

Oh no. Here, I'll tell you the truth:

I don't think I've ever finished an MoI wall. Like, every time I go to read one of his walls I just die a little inside

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

@kwll

, some stuff to point out from your 156:

Bitmap.
Very very very strong entrance. I like how you enter with a splash. Why are you calling everything WIFOM? I understand not much logic is being used yet but its only day 1. Will be doing a ISO of you later. Not much to say you just got here.

This is not a read A read ends with a conclusion, or concludes... something. Do you think Bitmap’s play thus far makes him more inclined to be town or scum?

awest.
my second top scum read.

Your post makes you look like your bussing your partner there spawn a little much.

No no no. You don’t make connections before you have a flip. Otherwise you’ll be way down confirmation bias.

It also looks like suspicious, because if Spawn were to flip scum,

you’ll

definitely be looking suspicious because you tried to make connections and ties with a known scum (your scumbuddy) with a townie, so as to set up mislynches (a lynch that doesn't hit a scum).

[serrapaladin]

paladin

Why do you think the MP5 quest is flawed? I actually find it insightful on what people are looking for in scum. Some people are biased by either how they perceive scum or how they have seen scum act in other games and defeated them. I did play one game where a guy was jumping on people who acted similar to scum who bested him in his last match.

So yes its WIFOM question but also allows to glimpse at the bias people will be using on their reads.

I thinking of awarding you Scum pts for that answer on it. But maybe you have town reason for it?

I agree with the general sentiment of MP5's question, but not with his implementation.

It is somewhat valid to divide people into these two groups:

• Flying Under the Radar
• Actively Contributing

or these two groups:

• Under Suspicion
• Not Under Suspicion

With either of these groupings it is then reasonable to ask the question: 'which group is scum most likely to be in?'

It is not valid to divide people into these three groups:

• Under Suspicion
• Flying Under the Radar
• Actively Contributing

because people could very much be Contributing, but still be Under Suspicion. When MP5 now asks which of these three groups is most likely to contain scum, there is no possible answer, that couldn't be construed as scummy.

I agree with Bitmap's point, that scum could be anywhere from 'overly aggressive' to 'lurking,' and that judging people on that basis is WIFOM. However MP5's formulation, which he allegedly placed to trick people, is wrong.

SAD:

Why do you like Bitmap's aggression? Do you think it makes him look more towny than if he had made the same points in a different manner?

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

SAD: Why do you like Bitmap's aggression?

Because I think a townie would be more inclined to just come in and start attacking people, etc, and start applying pressure and making the game more active. And I like the pressure he applies, it looks like it is aimed to get a read on people and get them to be more active.

Do you think it makes him look more towny than if he had made the same points in a different manner?

Hmm, not exactly sure what you mean? If he was less aggressive, and just asked the questions in a less aggressive manner? Tbh, I don't think I have this strong of a townread on him.

[Superdeclan]

sorry bad times are falling on my family MOD: Replace me

[Spawnisen]

MP5 and serra: what are your reads on Declan? Why do you think he is scum?

[kwll]

Hey spawn just to piss you off scum...

WHAT ARE YOUR READS....

stop sheeping....

SAD

I will be back for your questions...

[serrapaladin]

Spawn: I shared my thoughts about Declan a few pages ago. He hasn't posted since then, and is now being replaced, so unfortunately we won't be getting any satisfactory answers from his slot. The main reasons why I think his slot is scum are how quickly he changed his read on kwll and me, how weak his reasons were for sheeping onto you, and how he changed his reason for scumreading me for no apparent reason.

[MP5]

Nothing else to add to paladin's thoughts about Declan, the sheeping for unoriginal reasons was really weak, and then changing his reads overnight for no reason.

I see your objection now paladin, but I don't feel that those alternatives would be particularly useful. Yes, it is true that those three categories weren't mutually exclusive, but as I explained there was a town/null answer to that question, as well as a scummy one. To ask simply between Under Suspicion/Not would mean that scum should always be in the Under Suspicion - if not, then we as town are not doing a good enough job. And to ask between Contributing/Not isn't helpful either as it is WIFOM, it can be merely a preference in play/post style and not alignment indicative. The scummy answer I was looking for was "not mine!", which I think is a potential reply when it is broken down further.

I'm not really sure where to go from here without hearing from Nekoko and declan's replacement.

[Spawnisen]

I'll have to say now already that I've had a hard time getting good reads on everyone as I've been so busy trying to defend myself in every damn post and you guys have mostly gone after me so that almost the only thing I can go after, and everything started because I didn't believe the pre-game answers were that important, like you obviously thought.
serra: I have slightly town read on you. From my view I think most of your posts make sense with what I am thinking and you're using more analyzes and logic than anyone else (with SAD). I think some that are scummy are still goign after me with the same reasons since page 1, mainly the answers and my defensiveness because of that. But you're at least trying to look every direction and not only get stuck on one. If that makes sense.

MP5:For me you're kinda null. You have a few things going for you that I think are somewhat suspicious. What was the whole idea of askign everyone to put scum into a category? Why ask a question where every answer can be the right one. I guess you were looking for reactions and someone somehow slipping up but that question can also just as much be personal, what one guy feels is often used by scum another guy can feel it is very towny like to play that way. It all depends on what you have seen scum play the last few games you have been in or what you have read how scum plays, or maybe how scum doesn't play. And you're questions to me and Declan was quite pathetic to be honest, I don't really see any point in those. What would you've done if I would've answered Yes on your question instead of No? Why does that change anything? But I also feel, like serra that you're reasoning for going after Declan are decent and not suspicious..


awestfie: I explained I think on the last page or 2 pages back what I thought of you. It is mostly leaning to town simply for the fact that I don't think you've done much that has caught my eye, as i've tried to fend off all the guys going after me. But you've also been thinking that I was scum but I think you haven't been so stuck on me, you've also been able to try to look for other people.

SAD: Not much to add, kinda townie close to null read on you. You've been away the last few pages, after Bitmap came back. Posts through 82 to 84 I feel are townish but then again I might be blinded by you being IC so I read everything of you in being very helpful and experience-like..

The reason that I asked your guys read on Declan was that I tried to read through the pages and didn't really find anything on him, until today when I was going back again. I saw him flip flopping on his reads and kinda trying to get the bandwagon on me going harder on page 5 I think it was, without real good reasoning or 'evidence'. He's looking scummy to me. I'll have to confess I don't have too much going on you kwll, just you kinda trying to 'fly low' and that misread you had, which I still feel you knew what I meant. I guess it's more of a gut feeling than anything else..

[kwll]

SAD

I did have a conclustion on my read to bitmap. Please read last statment of what I wrote.
As for the linking. I am just wondering what his reaction was going to be to the accustion.

Spawn

thank you for your reads.
also dont sheeep to the IC. He could be scum guiding our newbies. That would suck.

Dclan

I have no read on. I would say he was "present but not in the room" so to speak. bascially his internet sucked and almost zero content.
He did vote spawn but that is not saying much since spawn posts were looking horrid at that point.
also his reads in 70 had no justification ....everyone is town but spawn....which does sound like newbie scum going for an easy target.
Post 95 doesnt sit well with demanding content from me since he saw me online...and since I didnt post I went from slight town read for being active to slight scum. Wow I wrote about lot about him. Anyways I dont believe there is enough content to warrent a vote...but I do have a scum feeling on that slot...I hope his replacement will do way better.

[kwll]

I see you Nekoko...Wanna post for us...I have been dying to see what you have to say!!!!

[Nekoko]

Bitmap

FalconPunch

Yeah, from people other than my target(SAD) which I find to be hilarious.

What's funny is that your target completely ignored you

serrapaladin

...

because people could very much be Contributing, but still be Under Suspicion. When MP5 now asks which of these three groups is most likely to contain scum, there is no possible answer, that couldn't be construed as scummy.

I agree with Bitmap's point, that scum could be anywhere from 'overly aggressive' to 'lurking,' and that judging people on that basis is WIFOM. However MP5's formulation, which he allegedly placed to trick people, is wrong.

But the question is, did you find this scummy or not?

kwll (SE)

I think your choice of suspects are a bit too convenient.

awest.
my second top scum read.

Your post makes you look like your bussing your partner there spawn a little much.
Like to see your response to it. I can quote later if need be.
Most of your post have been about spawn so not much to say.

gotta make lunch and head to the grocery store. Will finish my reads off then.

Your suspicion of awest is based on the assumption that spawn is scum.
There is still no flips so this is only useless speculation. Ser Dayne has already explained why it is suspicious in addition to the fact that most of the time, it's inaccurate.

I am freaking curious. You believe I tunneled on Spawn? He was the only acting very very suspicious at the time. and the first to go into content. I wanted to see how he would do when being questioned. Especially when one acts defensive. Seeming how you ignored that info when I was talking to him puts scum pts on you. you are my third Scum read.
(P.S.) I am somewhat a defensive player. You will note that in many of my games.

Okay tunneled is a strong word.
What I noticed is that spawn is the only person you're talking about. This only changed after you came back from a long deep sleep.

Also I don't why you're telling us now that you're a defensive player.
Going back to this question, it seems that you didn't actually answer it.

4) How do you react to people attacking you?

4) LOL, no matter what my slot is I always get attacked heavy on my play style so I am used to it.

Ser Arthur Dayne (IC)

In post 156, kwll wrote:awest.
my second top scum read.

Your post makes you look like your bussing your partner there spawn a little much.


No no no. You don’t make connections before you have a flip. Otherwise you’ll be way down confirmation bias.

It also looks like suspicious, because if Spawn were to flip scum, you’ll definitely be looking suspicious because you tried to make connections and ties with a known scum (your scumbuddy) with a townie, so as to set up mislynches (a lynch that doesn't hit a scum).

Yes I agree that this shouldn't be done. Newbies tend to do this because they don't know this is a flawed way of scum-hunting
(I'm afraid I also did this in my first game as town and experienced how ineffective it was) but I doubt that kwll doesn't know this.
Was it more suspicious because kwll is already SE and he still did this?

MP5

Ravenpaw

I'm curious, what do you think of awestfie?

My question to all - ignoring who is in each category, which category do you think scum would most likely be in at this stage?

If it is not the one I have put you in, why not your own?

Though I know that placing scum in a category is WIFOM, actually I didn't understand this part Can you rephrase it?

[serrapaladin]

In post 204, serrapaladin wrote:
...

because people could very much be Contributing, but still be Under Suspicion. When MP5 now asks which of these three groups is most likely to contain scum, there is no possible answer, that couldn't be construed as scummy.

I agree with Bitmap's point, that scum could be anywhere from 'overly aggressive' to 'lurking,' and that judging people on that basis is WIFOM. However MP5's formulation, which he allegedly placed to trick people, is wrong.
But the question is, did you find this scummy or not?

I'm not sure yet. So far I'm slightly leaning towards overall town intentions, but pretending to be cleverly scumhunting, while posing misleading questions, could also be something scum would do.

MP5:

Not only were categories not mutually exclusive, but I don't like the justification you give later on. One of the categories is called "UNDER SUSPICION". People who are under suspicion, will have been read as more scummy than others. Are you genuinely saying that our collective scumhunting does not make the people we're suspicious of any more likely to be scum? If you actually hold that 'being under suspicion' is WIFOM, you're saying we should just random vote, because all scumhunting we do doesn't actually increase our likelihood of lynching scum. It still sort of looks to me as though you were retroactively trying to latch on to Bitmap's point about WIFOM between 'aggressive' and 'passive' scum to gain some town points.

[Untrod Tripod]

evilpire replaces Superdeclan

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Hello evilpire Hope you catch up and share you thoughts when possible.

[evilpire]

Hello everyone! I've just started reading up on the posts and I've seen that superdeclan was acting really scummy I shall start by UNVOTE: Spawn Prepare for a substantial post coming soon

[evilpire]

Ok reads coming tomorrow also shouldn't awstfire be prodded

[kwll]

Is this your first game evilpire?

[awestfie]

awest.
my second top scum read.

Explain this to me, why do you feel like Spawn and I are scum?

(I'll explain my reads later tonight, since I'll finally have some free time..)

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Was it more suspicious because kwll is already SE and he still did this?

Generally speaking, more experienced scum players attempt to set up lynches for days other than the one they're currently at or attempt to establish connections, especially with their scumbuddy and a townie. It subconsciously (is that the right word?) puts in the back of others' heads.

[evilpire]

Yes it is my first game might be able to do reads today give me about 10 minutes

[evilpire]

Actually reads tommorow as it is hard to quote on phone, however Perhaps we can do something like this for d1 this is just an idea please reject it if you wish :

We no lynch day1 with no claims then cop ( if we have one ) investigates someone. The cop then 'outs ' who he investigated if he got a guilty, if not he keeps quiet, we lynch on day 2 and that person claims when we get to l-1 we choose weather to believe them or not depending on their play so far and we lynch again day 3

How does that sound to you people

Obviously we need to start discussion on the thread to form more concrete reads and we can still do that here