/in-vitational 12: Mafia in #YOLOville - All wrapped up!

[Faraday]

Day 1, Votecount 6

Nachomamma8 (1) - N
Cogito Ergo Sum (1) - Tammy
N (1) - penguin_alien
penguin_alien (3) - Cogito Ergo Sum, Johhog, Shadoweh
Konowa (1) - Tierce
Deasvail (2) - Konowa, Llamarble
Shadoweh (1) - WickedestJr

Llamarble (5) - Benmage, Empire, Deasvail, CrashTextDummie, Vi

Johhog (1) - Nachomamma8

Not voting (0) :

NO ONE

• With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch.
  
• Deadline is on 5th of March at 00:38am GMT
  
• Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2013-03-04 20:30:28)

Top of the poge VC celebratory shot!

[N]

Why so emo, Shaniwéh?

Oh, that's not actually a smudge on my screen above the e.

[Shadoweh]

I suspect penguin is going to replace out actually. Though they're clearly posting in other places.
Shaniwéh sounds like if I wanted a porno name. >_>
I am going to put forth the theory that Empire is scum and therefore can't join the Townie Voting block after all. I've been getting weird feelings from his posts, for a guy who is fairly confident in being able to read people it is downright weird to me to see him be so unsure of how to do that. Empire, what exactly about this game is making it hard to read people that you seem to have been able to read perfectly well in every other game I've seen you in?

##Vote: Empire

[Shadoweh]

Also I am going to be semi-away because I am having a slight housing problem, but shouldn't have to V/LA for it.

[Vi]

Shaniwéh sounds like if I wanted a porno name. >_>

Good thing I have a fallback option!

[penguin_alien]

Sorry, haven't had a decent block of time in the past 48 hours to get a grip on anything that's not really straightforward around here.

I feel like DeasVail's contradictory posts about CrashTextDummie's massclaim idea as a reaction test would have been more useful if he'd committed more, as doing such an abrupt 180 makes me wonder how much relevant information he mined from it. Compare to Konowa who got a bunch of people to jump on my wagon based on an RVS post. I'll still buy that DeasVail was reaction-fishing, so not currently a viable suspect to me.

Cogito Ergo Sum manages to hop on and coast for a while as far as I can tell, with his posts growing less and less related to the game at hand. Shows no interest in scum hunting beyond my wagon; why is that? I find Johhog's stance more pro-town, as it seems perfectly reasonable to want to see something change in the information you're getting from your lynch target before moving on.

Not loving the white-knight reaction to Konowa from Llamarble. And then Llamarble is jumping around with reasons to vote for people that seem rather thin and refuses to elaborate when called on that, namely that someone beefs up their post with a superfluous link implicates them as scum. Reads as a self-conscious attempt to get wagons going that he's not interested in standing behind.

UNVOTE: N
VOTE: Llamarble

[Empire]

I think I did a good job imitating my townplay at the beginning of TM12.
You can wat all you like, but I am smart and look at things others don't consider. Simple != unimportant.
You need to read more closely; the relevance of Benmage commenting on relevant things was already available in my posts.

I did read your posts closely. If I'm understanding it right, you're saying that Benmage tends to play a more pro-town game as scum (which is actually not a bad summary of what I think re: his meta -- I remember reading somewhere that Benmage hates the lurking scum strategy so he's always intense and on top of the game when he's scum; conversely, the less aggressive/more laid back/lazier he appears to be, the more likely he is to be town). I guess I just want you to be more specific? How exactly is Benmage appearing more pro-town to you in a way that suggests he's scum? What "relevant things" is he commenting on? And what do you think about the substance of the back-and-forth CTD and I had?

I am going to put forth the theory that Empire is scum and therefore can't join the Townie Voting block after all. I've been getting weird feelings from his posts, for a guy who is fairly confident in being able to read people it is downright weird to me to see him be so unsure of how to do that. Empire, what exactly about this game is making it hard to read people that you seem to have been able to read perfectly well in every other game I've seen you in?

Erm, the only people here I think I can read with any amount of confidence are Tierce and Tammy, and to a much lesser extent, DV, Vi, Benmage, and you. I think Tierce is town, Tammy hasn't posted enough for me to get a reliable read on her (though I'd wager she's town at the moment given her reaction to Konowa in #98). Benmage seems town primarily due to some meta I have on him as well (see above), Vi is basically being Vi and nothing he's posted here sways me one way or the other. I still don't know about you either, I don't think your entrance to the game in #26 is scummy like some people have said though. And I already mentioned why I'm leaning town on DV.

I can't read CES for shit and I struggle to read him whenever we play together + reading games he's in. N's fooled me once as scum in NY 160 and it took me 'til late game to read N correctly as scum in Black Flag Nightless (I initially read him as town here). Konowa's pretty tough for me to read too since he tends to be pretty lurky/low content in most games and I had to read him as town via interactions with flipped scum in Castle Zar. And even though I read Johhog pretty easily as town in that same game, it was pretty much primarily due to his own play there and I'm not really familiar with his meta. My sample size with Nacho is also pretty small and he's one of the guys I'm testing some meta out by following his games but I haven't come up with anything definitive there (mostly tonal differences, I think he's a lot more detached and emotionless as scum).

Then of course there's the people I haven't played with before (e.g., CTD, Llamarble, penguin_alien, Wickedestjr).

I lost a lot of my confidence after Castle Zar: even though I correctly nailed all three scum via a 5 person PoE list, I ended up lynching the two townies in that group which led me to second guess everything pretty hardcore. Ever since that game, it's basically been a project for me to rebuild that ability. The difficulty this game comes from the fact that, combined with what I just said re: me losing confidence, this is a pretty god tier roster, so there will always be a tinge of paranoia or worry that I'm misreading something.

What gave you the impression that I could confidently read people?

[Shadoweh]

So you can confidentally read nearly half the playerlist but you're swimming for reads? Where I got the 'impression' that in general you aren't a wishy washy guy is from reading this in particular: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=23930 though it's the impression I've gotten from watching you in general. Your Llamarble vote doesn't strike me as you analyzing him and finding him scum, it looked like throwing a rope at a log and hoping you can ride out the current on it. Even your questioning in the above post is weak and kind of like 'eh i just want you to talk more I guess'. It's not the voice of someone questioning their suspect.

Also I am probably the wrong person to try and convince I'm scum, I remembered my glasses today and my pm clearly says townie obvtown.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Not loving the white-knight reaction to Konowa from Llamarble. And then Llamarble is jumping around with reasons to vote for people that seem rather thin and refuses to elaborate when called on that, namely that someone beefs up their post with a superfluous link implicates them as scum. Reads as a self-conscious attempt to get wagons going that he's not interested in standing behind.

Talk about bussing.

Llamarble, why are you reacting wrongly to the wagon?

[Johhog]

I don't know, I think that your Penguin vote is weird considering there's someone else who you actually think is scum. (I don't really imagine you having a super strong read from that one post, but I could be wrong I guess)

You don't want to see her escape by you unvoting her.
How is she escaping, exactly?

Unvote, Vote: Johhog

ben let's go here

You're both missing the point. I don't want lurking to be rewarding. I don't think you should be able to deflect suspicion simply by not answering. Now penguin_alien has posted, and as I have a stronger scum read I'm happy with changing my vote.

UNVOTE: penguin_alien
VOTE: DeasVail

For pretty much the reasons Tierce outlined, even if she bizarrely accepted DV's obviously made up excuse. Still trying to wrap my mind around that, btw. Haven't played much with Tierce, but it feels surreal that she would accept that as town. I guess I'll dig around for meta.

[DeasVail]

I'm pretty sure that saying that I've seen CTD play before (he asks for a massclaim every game) means something was up?

[DeasVail]

Llamarble, I think it should matter who's voting for me and who isn't, but ok.

Penguin, what was your reaction when you saw my first post?

Empire is leaning town for now, but I'm not too strong on it.

Llamarble is still scummy. My other scumread is probably Johhog for saying that I'm basically concocting new reasoning for my first post (which means I'm scum or just really strange town and although I'm a little strange, I don't think I'm that much!), which I think is kind of bad, but I think it's worse because of the fact that he decided to stay on Penguin despite having me as an exciting new scumread to push. Hmm, as I'm typing this I'm feeling more eh about it, so maybe not, but we'll see.

Everyone else is somewhere between meh and supertown.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

DV's obviously made up excuse

This is not really a thing that happens, just fyi.

[Vi]

I lost a lot of my confidence after Castle Zar: even though I correctly nailed all three scum via a 5 person PoE list, I ended up lynching the two townies in that group which led me to second guess everything pretty hardcore.

And yet you still won.

[Johhog]

I'm pretty sure that saying that I've seen CTD play before (he asks for a massclaim every game) means something was up?

Oh fuck, didn't know that. I fail.

UNVOTE: DeasVail

[Konowa]

Work schedule has changed around this week. I should be able to get in tomorrow afternoon. If not then, definetly Saturday morning.

[Empire]

Have class all day today, so here's something quick.

So you can confidentally read nearly half the playerlist but you're swimming for reads? Where I got the 'impression' that in general you aren't a wishy washy guy is from reading this in particular: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=23930 though it's the impression I've gotten from watching you in general.

Yes. That's six people. Of those six, two of them (Tammy and you) haven't really posted enough for me to get a confident read and one of them is Vi. The other three are some form of townread. I don't know what else you're expecting from me on page 6? I'm not half the man I used to be.

Your Llamarble vote doesn't strike me as you analyzing him and finding him scum, it looked like throwing a rope at a log and hoping you can ride out the current on it. Even your questioning in the above post is weak and kind of like 'eh i just want you to talk more I guess'. It's not the voice of someone questioning their suspect.

The two are not mutually exclusive and going on fishing expeditions in the early game is perfectly fine, no? And how do you expect someone to address a suspect then? If you're talking about acting all indignant and shit, I don't really feel like acting this way.

Maybe it's because I don't have someone like Thor insulting me this game.

Also I am probably the wrong person to try and convince I'm scum, I remembered my glasses today and my pm clearly says townie obvtown.

Pretty sure I didn't try to convince you you're scum?

And yet you still won.

Yeah, but I don't think I really did anything other than look town by slowly losing my sanity over the course of the game.

[Vi]

That's me in the corner
That's me in the spot-light
Losing my religion
Trying to keep--a--view
And I don't know if I can do it

[Tierce]

...

I was about to say that scumVi wouldn't take lunch time out to post actively in a game, especially from a phone, but that doesn't really count as

actively

. Needs more puppy fluff.

Johhog--want to do something with your vote, then?

N is probably scum.

I don't think I've answered Empire yet--my unvote means that I think Deas's explanation is satisfactory, even though that kind of play irks me; it's the kind of thing that causes

anyone

to pile on him. Town will have rightful reason to do so (it's a scummy attitude), and scum can blend in. Doesn't make him scum, here or in other games, but it's not particularly

good

play.

[Tierce]

UNVOTE: Konowa
VOTE: #YOLlamarble

[Vi]

Tierce is Town. By posting this contentful sentence I am therefore Town. Therefore by hypothetical syllogism I am Town because Tierce is Town.

[Tierce]

Svita, stating the obVious.

[Tammy]

Dodging the prod.

My interview is tomorrow (wish me luck!) after which time I'll be free to provide actual content, and you can go "look how town Tammy is!". Hopefully vi won't call me boring again, though. Don't mind me I'm simultaneously a ball of nerves and in a silly mood, wish I had time to play but etc.

I was going to ask ces why he hadn't commented on llamarble but then saw him starting to question him so I'm interested in his thoughts on that.

[Benmage]

Vi,

what's your angle here?

[Llamarble]

Sorry, haven't had a decent block of time in the past 48 hours to get a grip on anything that's not really straightforward around here.

I feel like DeasVail's contradictory posts about CrashTextDummie's massclaim idea as a reaction test would have been more useful if he'd committed more, as doing such an abrupt 180 makes me wonder how much relevant information he mined from it. Compare to Konowa who got a bunch of people to jump on my wagon based on an RVS post. I'll still buy that DeasVail was reaction-fishing, so not currently a viable suspect to me.

Cogito Ergo Sum manages to hop on and coast for a while as far as I can tell, with his posts growing less and less related to the game at hand. Shows no interest in scum hunting beyond my wagon; why is that? I find Johhog's stance more pro-town, as it seems perfectly reasonable to want to see something change in the information you're getting from your lynch target before moving on.

Not loving the white-knight reaction to Konowa from Llamarble. And then Llamarble is jumping around with reasons to vote for people that seem rather thin and refuses to elaborate when called on that, namely that someone beefs up their post with a superfluous link implicates them as scum. Reads as a self-conscious attempt to get wagons going that he's not interested in standing behind.

UNVOTE: N
VOTE: Llamarble

This is probably a scumbag.
Also I have elaborated on my reasons for voting people rather more than is typical for me early on, including at least one explanation of exactly the question you asked.

Llamarble, why are you reacting wrongly to the wagon?

Votes annoy me. I play to solve the puzzle, and getting others to listen afterward is fun too, but dealing with silliness is a waste of time.

I think I did a good job imitating my townplay at the beginning of TM12.
You can wat all you like, but I am smart and look at things others don't consider. Simple != unimportant.
You need to read more closely; the relevance of Benmage commenting on relevant things was already available in my posts.

I did read your posts closely. If I'm understanding it right, you're saying that Benmage tends to play a more pro-town game as scum (which is actually not a bad summary of what I think re: his meta -- I remember reading somewhere that Benmage hates the lurking scum strategy so he's always intense and on top of the game when he's scum; conversely, the less aggressive/more laid back/lazier he appears to be, the more likely he is to be town). I guess I just want you to be more specific? How exactly is Benmage appearing more pro-town to you in a way that suggests he's scum? What "relevant things" is he commenting on? And what do you think about the substance of the back-and-forth CTD and I had?

You pretty much answered your own question. Benmage is doing scumhunty things / being useful.
This is by no means sufficient grounds to throw him off a cliff, but it makes me nervous about him.