League of Legends (Old)

[Glork]

I think you're missing the part where I was pointing out that he's not a

CC jungler

. That's about as blatant a mischaracterization as I can think of. I wouldn't call Taric a CC jungler any more than I'd call Kayle a CC Jungler. Neither his passive, nor Imbue, Shatter, or his ult have any MS steroid or CC associated with them.

I feel like this is when a new Magic card comes out that looks really exciting and powerful at first, and people go "IT CAN WORK LIKE BLAHBLAHBLAH" and then they find out after time and sample size increase that there are simply better and more effective ways of accomplishing the same thing. But yes, agree to disagree.

[TehBrawlGuy]

Jungle Taric has one stun and no way to actually *stick* to people.

Mao can check bushes. Mao has an ACTUAL gap closer that roots his target and makes him mobile and makes him briefly untargetable (dropping tower aggro even for a moment -- clutch). Once Maokai initiates, he has a secondary ability which slows his target and physically moves them, preventing them from escaping.

Like.

No.

Don't even fucking compare the two.


Jungle Taric CAN work as part of an IDEAL team comp. But he is not a good jungler. His kit does not support it. Do you know why jungle Warwick is not remotely terrifying before Level 6? Same reason Taric is a mere gimmick as a "jungler."

You have redbuff 3/5th of the time, you rush IG, you take MS quints, and you have Ghost, so you alleviate sticking pretty well. (I could stick to Teemo) He's also not that reliant on sticking, because he bursts

hard

in his stun window.

He clears at 4:20, he's a walking Chain Vest, Pickaxe, Longsword, and Blasting Wand. He heals and CCs tons in a protracted fight, and he does tons of damage.


Warwick isn't scary because his ganks are awful pre-6. Taric can gank very well @ 2.

Obviously a support tank jungle is situational, but he does it well.

As far as CC, a 1.5 sec ranged, targeted stun on a 6 sec CD is definitely a decent bit of CC. It's not Nautilus, but it's definitely quite a bit.

[TehBrawlGuy]

Oh, and IG comes up so many times in a fight it's not even funny. Tons of AoE slows.

[TheButtonmen]

Have you ever looked at a glacier and found yourself unable to handle the blistering speed it's surging forward at?

If so then jungle taric may be for you!

[Matias]

I think you're missing the part where I was pointing out that he's not a

CC jungler

. That's about as blatant a mischaracterization as I can think of. I wouldn't call Taric a CC jungler any more than I'd call Kayle a CC Jungler. Neither his passive, nor Imbue, Shatter, or his ult have any MS steroid or CC associated with them.

I feel like this is when a new Magic card comes out that looks really exciting and powerful at first, and people go "IT CAN WORK LIKE BLAHBLAHBLAH" and then they find out after time and sample size increase that there are simply better and more effective ways of accomplishing the same thing. But yes, agree to disagree.

Yeah I would agree that he's not supposed to be a CC jungler. I did miss if that was the topic of the argument, I just saw the part where you'd rather have many other junglers over Taric. He's not scary to have on your team if you trust him.

[TheButtonmen]

Seriously he clears like shit, has godawful attack speed and no good steroids (for the jungle).

Also if you're actually trying to advocate for MS quint, sheen first, smite / ghost taric I need to go throw up a little.

[TheButtonmen]

I just jungled Taric 30 minutes ago. He's Maokai with more damage and heals, and I was able to turn that game around and carry with my amazing ganks, counterganks, burst, and objective speed.

Mao has a better heal then Taric (Mao heals for 14-21% of max health during a team fight and 7-14% during a dive vs Taric healing for 60-220)
Mao snare outranges Dazzle and is a gap closer.
Mao has a knock back / slow on top of his snare.
Mao makes his teammates tankier then Taric (-20% from all damage taken vs 12-18 Armor)
Mao clears faster then Taric (3:30ish clear vs 4:00 (w/ AS quints) clear for first clear and Mao speeds up from there where as Taric slows the fuck down unless you rush wriggles in which case it remains slow but not glacial.)

Other then being goddamn fabulous I'm struggling to see one thing Taric has on Mao.

I actually thought you were being sarcastic when you said this but it appears you were serious which actually pains me. The words carry, objective speed and burst do not go in the same sentence as Taric.

He clears at 4:20

Most top tier junglers clear about a min faster then that and go gank / invade.

[TheButtonmen]

Like I love Taric, he's probably my second favourite support to play / have on my team but he is not a jungler by any way, shape or means.

[MrZepher]

From what I'm hearing on streams and such a lot of people disagree with you buttons.

[TehBrawlGuy]

He clears a lot better after his first, for one. AS marks exist.

You have ~360 MS barefoot at level 1, and like 412 with unenchanted boots 2. If you get alacrity, furor, or Zephyr, that goes through the roof.

Sheen first is awful. Glaicial Shroud into IG.


@TheButtonmen:
Taric selfheals for 420 or 480ish during ult, (with just two big items and level 13) and he gets this off 3-4 times in a teamfight, and usually twice during a dive. He can also heal an ally prefight or during the fight. I got tons of heals seiging, in protracted fights, etc.
Taric stuns instead of snares, has no risk of them jumping under tower like Mao does, and has it on a 6 sec CD.
Taric has 30 AoE armor shred.
Mao's ult can be moved out of and has a CD. Taric always gives armor. (and he gives a lot more than 12-18) Taric's ult also gives tons of free offensive stats.
Taric just does way, way more damage. I could chunk squishies in teamfights for 2/3rds with a full combo, and 100-0 if they were alone and away from a tower. (EAARWAAAA > EWAA if away from help)

I'm not saying he's better than Mao, but he's pretty insane if you play him well. Try him. I was skeptical until actually playtesting it.

@Zepher: What's the community response?

[Brandi]

Taric is a top priority ban over every thing else for me at the moment. Not scared of Blitz, not scared of Thresh, not scared of Vi. Taric is a fucking terror no matter where he goes.

[mykonian]

I haven't played with it (so what do I know), but I feel the passive on taric is a bit of a noob trap with the items currently around.

Traditional sheen carriers quite universally have a short cooldown skill able to trigger it continiously should they want to, or in a few cases it's done with multiple skills. The cooldowns on Taric, and the way they are blown generally, does not work for sheen. Someone here was fencing with the heal cooldown that could be shortened through hitting stuff, but as a melee character, if you get to continiously hit stuff in the teamfight you can consider yourself extremely lucky. I think sheen on taric is probably not the best choice.

Glacial is a given, obviously. Frozen heart is still a great item and gives everything taric wants.

Catalyst is more then fine, but one has to wonder what to build it into... banshee's veil? Gives all the stats he wants to but the shield is generally not what a tank wants.

Tear is too squishy for the average melee champion. And it's hard to load. Manamune is a step in the right direction, but seems awkward to me.

[Ankamius]

Wow, that lesson really helped with my mid and top lane play. I feel my skill level in those roles went up by 200-300 ELO just from doing this.

[esuriospiritus]

Wow, that lesson really helped with my mid and top lane play. I feel my skill level in those roles went up by 200-300 ELO just from doing this.

call me dense if this should be obvious, but what lesson are you referring to?

[Brandi]

It wouldn't be obvious unless you were in our skype call yesterday. He paid an experienced player to give him some lessons.

[esuriospiritus]

Oh. Sounds cool.

[Shanba]

UN
RELENTING
AGGRESSION

[Ankamius]

Yeah, I'd seen the post he made on the forums and a lot of people had given really good reviews about his quality, so I decided to go for it.

[quadz08]

Terrorric

[lil g]

I still maintain that the first few games after you get promoted are too stressful and scary, it is a really shitty feeling to "progress" but instantly be in the danger zone. It's not well thought out and quite frankly, it sucks. Oh and please don't tell me it doesn't suck if you haven't lived it. :p
You need to win at a decent clip to hit your 100 pts, you need to win the 2/3 or 3/5 to promote, then you need to get a win in your first 3 or you are history. God damn, the only time you get to slack off is in the 50pt zone of happiness, long may she burn.

Also in the list of things that suck, this league. Only person I know in it is PEG and he needs 130 wins to catch me, strike that, he needs half a win worth of LP to overtake me. I am very good at this game.

[Glork]

Man you guys are making me super excited to jump into ranked play.

[Ankamius]

Playing ranked can be really euphoric when everything goes just right. It's surprisingly fulfilling when you get a random team that just works.

[mykonian]

And with recent liandry's changes, karth shouldn't have gotten much worse from a few months ago.

So, they gave DoT casters a cool lategame item, eh? Karth with a shitty laning phase (losing pre-6 against kass wasn't entirely the plan, I was rusty and he certainly wasn't), no real comebacks, still melts teams with Zonya's/Hat/Liandry's. I wasn't unhappy. Press R to win still works

[MrZepher]

Glacial shroud and Spirit of Golem are definitely early pickups for Taric since his passive will help turn the mana into damage. Frozen heart is fine enough but if you need damage Gauntlet is going to be a better item if only because it gives more flat mana and Taric CAN take advantage of the slow field.

CDR is a stat Taric is going to build into anyways, so it's really only the first 5 or 6 levels that are going to be hard, and considering Taric's clear time is faster and higher health than mot other tank/support junglers and he has a point-and-click stun it could be worse.
Gauntlet is definitely a worth-it item if you get it early since it lets you stick to champs after you stun them (stun, close gap, AA and apply the slow field) and he can cycle abilities to keep procing the field/sheen. Stun proc, shatter proc and then you get procs from random heals. Lategame your job is going to be peeling for the carries and the slow field will give you a lot of utility in that regard.

I'm not saying Gauntlet is a must-buy on Taric now, but the Utility it brings is totally worth it imo.
Plus Sheen isn't the problem since it'll help him clear faster and the AP from sheen will help him scale if only a little.

[TehBrawlGuy]

Glacial shroud and Spirit of Golem are definitely early pickups for Taric since his passive will help turn the mana into damage. Frozen heart is fine enough but if you need damage Gauntlet is going to be a better item if only because it gives more flat mana and Taric CAN take advantage of the slow field.

CDR is a stat Taric is going to build into anyways, so it's really only the first 5 or 6 levels that are going to be hard, and considering Taric's clear time is faster and higher health than mot other tank/support junglers and he has a point-and-click stun it could be worse.
Gauntlet is definitely a worth-it item if you get it early since it lets you stick to champs after you stun them (stun, close gap, AA and apply the slow field) and he can cycle abilities to keep procing the field/sheen. Stun proc, shatter proc and then you get procs from random heals. Lategame your job is going to be peeling for the carries and the slow field will give you a lot of utility in that regard.

I'm not saying Gauntlet is a must-buy on Taric now, but the Utility it brings is totally worth it imo.
Plus Sheen isn't the problem since it'll help him clear faster and the AP from sheen will help him scale if only a little.

You can actually play it by ear whether or not you should peel for carries. You can play him very much like malph/mumu, where you just dive into the enemy team and blow everything up. We had a Rengar on my team, so giving him a dive buddy was quite useful.