Newbie 1345: Mafia in a Bind (Game Over)

[Equinox]

Vote Count 1.04

Xiao Long (3) - MP5, FSnake, theslimer3
MP5 (2) - KingPin96, Xiao Long
Didi (1) - Xegarus
Mutleyddmc (1) - Voodoo Lady
Voodoo Lady (1) - Mutleyddmc
Xegarus (1) - Didi

Not Voting (0)

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch.

The deadline is Tuesday, April 2, 2013, at 12:37 AM EDT (UTC-4).

Mod Notes

Xegarus is V/LA until March 17.
FSnake is V/LA until March 18.

[KingPin96]

As you also point out KP96, when I voted for him, people were posting fluff (it was rvs). Would you prefer me to vote for someone based on a known possible scum tell, or fluff?

His reaction trying to assert there is no reason is a sucky defence. He is still the most probable scum in my eyes at the moment.

Obviously voting for someone based on a scumtell is the better choice. However, "that excitement-tell" is far too vague as a scumtell. Like you said in that other game he was excited to play as scum and got caught out for it. But it has already been said that people act in differnt ways. One person could be excited to play as mafia, another could be very nervous to play as mafia.

Im not telling you who you should see as scum as thats entirely up to you, but accusing someone of being scum with such a poor logic (almost no reason at all) is quite scummy.

Also the fact you voted for him at first without providing a reason then used his later posts as reasons for voting him is quite suspicious too (I meant to add this part in my last post).

[Xegarus]

I think I made it quite clear already that the noting was just a comment to apply pressure.

No, thats just what you said. What you say and what it actually means are two very separate things.
I saw no town motivation to randomly apple pressure to anyone. But seeing as how i had already voted you, there may be some scum motivation to make the voter look bad.

However, at the moment we know nothing yet so isn't it all townies' job exactly to pry and pressure and try and get as much reactions and thus information as possible?

Not quite. You see, if you solely apply pressure to everything, all you are doing is putting people on the spot and thats where they may say anything. Put a gun to my head and i will sing. If you don't take it off, i will even start cursing the very things that are precious to me. Towns job is to find contradictions. With or without pressure. Pressure can lead to information, but pressure does not guarantee information.

I don't totally buy your meta me comment yet, since I just get an odd feeling when talking to you, all your posts seem to hide something /instinct.

Remaining ignorant to something is your problem. To make it easier for you, i have only ever been scum once so you can tell the huge contrast between my meta for town and scum.

So for now, my vote stays on you. But relax, if you're truly innocent I'm sure I'll come around and even if not, it's just 1 vote.

One vote is all it needs for scum to jump aboard and try to sheep others. But only if the reason is sound.

and maybe try and pressure some other people.

Don't say this. Pressure looses all its meaing when the receiver knows its pressure.

I'm town. But wouldn't scumMe say the same thing?

Scum you would also say that, and guess what, so would town you.

but i read a few weeks ago a game where xer was participating and i remembered him to say what he thinks, maybe this influences me there.

Mind if i ask which game this was?

Then how about actually explaining what was scummy in my posts AT THE TIME YOU VOTED. The only thing you explained that was scummy (at the time you voted) was that I was excited and then bullshit'd it by saying someone entirely different, in an entirely different game was also excited and ended up being scum.

Asking the person that finds you scummy, why they think you are scummy, is not that great an idea. It can make it look as if you are only trying to argue against the points made and not the actual motivation around them. Also, since they think you are scum, why would they answer you?

I started to answer these pointless questions but decided I wouldnt waste my breath with pointless questions that have been answered. What was the point in you asking me?

Oh they've been answered?
Let me just iso you and check.
*17 hours later*
Nope, you haven't answered them.
And those questions are not pointless in themselves. The fact that you are not answering them kinda makes it all the more important that they were asked.
Any reason you find them to be pointless?

VOTE: Mutley


Sorry for the long post, this is what happens when i have to play 'catch up'. And this was a short catch up too......

[Xiao Long]

Asking the person that finds you scummy, why they think you are scummy, is not that great an idea. It can make it look as if you are only trying to argue against the points made and not the actual motivation around them. Also, since they think you are scum, why would they answer you?

I disagree. I think it's a good idea. If someone doesn't tell you why they vote for you/think you're scummy, then you can't really defend yourself. Seeing as the whole point of this game is trying to sway people to vote for who you think is scum, then you need to have solid reasons for voting for said person and you need to voice them - both so others can agree with you, and so the people you're accusing can defend themselves.

I don't see why they wouldn't answer me, unless they just want the game to be really inactive.

[Mutleyddmc]

How are those questions not pointless? I obviously wasn't threatened as shown by my 'dry' answers answer that. Just because you want a straight up answer isn't my fault also shown by just common sense why would I be threatened by a first vote? Secondly I called him easily swayed because he did as I said even if it was because he said he would. Hence pointless they could have been answered by anyone or by using your own common sense.

[Xegarus]

Asking the person that finds you scummy, why they think you are scummy, is not that great an idea. It can make it look as if you are only trying to argue against the points made and not the actual motivation around them. Also, since they think you are scum, why would they answer you?

I disagree. I think it's a good idea. If someone doesn't tell you why they vote for you/think you're scummy, then you can't really defend yourself. Seeing as the whole point of this game is trying to sway people to vote for who you think is scum, then you need to have solid reasons for voting for said person and you need to voice them - both so others can agree with you, and so the people you're accusing can defend themselves.

I don't see why they wouldn't answer me, unless they just want the game to be really inactive.

When you start to defend your self, you are not scum hunting. If they give you reasons as to why they have voted you as such, ten by all means tear them a new one. But if they haven't, fuck them. Scum's only goal is to stay alive. So they try to appeal to everone more. Town though, towns only goal is to lynch scum. A town getting lynched is not a bad thing. It tells us its alignment, those that pushed the lynch etc. This means that town is less afraid to be lynched than scum. And thus means that trying to defend your self against points rather than scum hunting can look really scummy.

And aboutthe ignoreing thing, its a play style. I have seen it enough to say that it isn't alignment based. Heck, its usually one of the rare cases where its "that is so anti town, scum wouldnt do it". But thats only usually. Dont take it as a reason not to attack someone for it. Just dont get too angry.

How are those questions not pointless? I obviously wasn't threatened as shown by my 'dry' answers answer that. Just because you want a straight up answer isn't my fault also shown by just common sense why would I be threatened by a first vote? Secondly I called him easily swayed because he did as I said even if it was because he said he would. Hence pointless they could have been answered by anyone or by using your own common sense.

It was not your question. How pointless something is, is subjective. You are not the oneto decide how important it actually is. The question was directed towards you. It's your choice whether or not you answer but it can give people a personal opinion about you, and thats when shit gets bad.

[Mutleyddmc]

Lol shit gets bad if someone has an opinion? Wow. Damn. Plus I am the one to decide for the sole reason because I said so. Pointless questions are pointless.

[Didi]

Hmm, not sure if Mutley is an townie who's annoyed that people focus on him instead of scum... or a mafia who feels put on the spot.
Xegarus' answers to my stuff satisfied me though, so switching to Mutley who seems more scummy atm.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Mutley

[Xegarus]

Lol shit gets bad if someone has an opinion? Wow. Damn. Plus I am the one to decide for the sole reason because I said so. Pointless questions are pointless.

An opinion on someones play and one on the person are very different. Don't take what i said out of context. No, you saying something is pointless is, well pointless. You are the last person anyone will trust on how valid a question aimed towards you is if you dont give a reason. And yes pointless questions are pointless, but that is not the issue here. The issue was that a question was asked and you brushed it off as a "pointless question".
What i'm trying to say is, try not to be a dick.

[Xiao Long]

When you start to defend your self, you are not scum hunting. If they give you reasons as to why they have voted you as such, ten by all means tear them a new one. But if they haven't, fuck them. Scum's only goal is to stay alive. So they try to appeal to everone more. Town though, towns only goal is to lynch scum. A town getting lynched is not a bad thing. It tells us its alignment, those that pushed the lynch etc. This means that town is less afraid to be lynched than scum. And thus means that trying to defend your self against points rather than scum hunting can look really scummy.

I disagree to an extent. One can defend themselves and scum hunt at the same time (for instance, in my case of defending myself, I also made a case of why MP5 is appearing really scummy). And everyone defends themselves anyways, that's why there's claiming. I'd say people sheeping to lynch someone who hasn't had a chance to address the issues against them is more scummy than someone simply defending themselves. Granted, this is my first game and my opinion on this issue is bound to change as I play more games.

Another thing, while I agree it's not necessarily a bad thing if town gets lynched, it is a bad idea if they're lynched on shoddy logic. This shows weakness and sheepishness in the town which can lead to too many mislynches and cost us the game. That being said, if town can manage to recognise said logic after a mislynch, then yes, it can be very useful for town.

And aboutthe ignoreing thing, its a play style. I have seen it enough to say that it isn't alignment based. Heck, its usually one of the rare cases where its "that is so anti town, scum wouldnt do it". But thats only usually. Dont take it as a reason not to attack someone for it. Just dont get too angry.

Wait, is this addressed at me?


Also, Xegarus, I'm curious as to what yours (and everyone else's) reads are on everyone so far.

[Voodoo Lady]

I obviously wasn't threatened as shown by my 'dry' answers answer that.

Isn't that a bit too convenient?

[Xegarus]

Wait, is this addressed at me?

Yes.
Let me clear any confusion there may be.
For you its people "ignoring" you when you asked them reasnos for being scummy.

For Mutley, its about just not answering questions in general.

One has a rather narrow area in which it applies, the other does not.

I'll post my reads when i feel the need to. Id rather not call someone town or scum at this point cause then their actions will be changed around those. It's also too early for me to form any solid reads.
Is that acceptable?

[Xiao Long]

Oh, alright, understood. It should be noted that I'm not angry, though, lol. I'm just really argumentative.

[Xiao Long]

Lol shit gets bad if someone has an opinion? Wow. Damn. Plus I am the one to decide for the sole reason because I said so. Pointless questions are pointless.

In a game like this, I don't really think any questions are pointless. Stupid? Yes. Pointless? No. Regardless, you're jumping way up on my scum meter and I'm tempted to put you at L-1.

[KingPin96]

Anyone have any thoughts on my case with Mp5 (on both the case and himself)? Or is it just me and xiao who are finding him rather scummy?

[Voodoo Lady]

Anyone have any thoughts on my case with Mp5 (on both the case and himself)? Or is it just me and xiao who are finding him rather scummy?

MP5's case against Xiao is pretty flimsy, if you ask me... There's simply absolutely nothing to go on with Xiao as of post 42. I've seen people say that excitement over having their first mafia game is a scumtell, but I don't think that's enough to warrant a scumread.

In the first game I played here (which just finished up, incidentally), on D1, one player's playstyle was aggravating a couple of other townies. The scum then made a case against the player and had him lynched. I think there's a distinct possibility that MP5 is scum and trying to start a bandwagon against the most irritating player.

But I'm far more confident in my read on Mutley.

[Xegarus]

If you ask me, i dont think MP5 even believes his own reasoning. I think he is just trying to get something to happen so that the game can really pick up. Thats just how i see it.

[Voodoo Lady]

If you ask me, i dont think MP5 even believes his own reasoning. I think he is just trying to get something to happen so that the game can really pick up. Thats just how i see it.

I find that unlikely, given his stated dislike of RQS.

[Didi]

Anyone have any thoughts on my case with Mp5 (on both the case and himself)? Or is it just me and xiao who are finding him rather scummy?

His motivation to vote was flimsy, I agree. But I don't know if that was to get a reaction like Xegarus said or just scum trying to start a wagon.


Usually scums are to afraid to start wagons anyway, cuz they don't wanna be traced back to them. They'll support wagons, like on the 2nd or 3rd vote, to get it going, but not be the one to start it. Not always, but a lot of times.

[Mutleyddmc]

Lol at the confident in my read of Mutley. Have me a great chuckle. Worst thing is I doubt either of the two questioning me is mafia.

[Xiao Long]

Mutley, all you're doing is stalling and completely ignoring the issues at hand. You've got three votes on you already and instead of doing ANYTHING about it - be it scumhunt or defending yourself - you're just laughing it off and refusing to address it. You've pretty much only posted fluff and bullshit.

Unvote
Vote: Mutley

You're now at L-1, I'd suggest actually playing the game.

[Voodoo Lady]

Mutley, do you not understand that dodging all the questions people ask of you and clothing all your posts in sarcasm isn't exactly pro-town behavior?

Also: worth pointing out that Mutley is at L-1 and that no one should vote for him until someone expresses intent to hammer. Regardless of Mutley's alignment, ending D1 less than a week into the game isn't going to give the town the info we need going into the next day.

[Xegarus]

Also: worth pointing out that Mutley is at L-1 and that no one should vote for him until someone expresses intent to hammer. Regardless of Mutley's alignment, ending D1 less than a week into the game isn't going to give the town the info we need going into the next day.

Fuck that shit.
Time to hammer this scum out.

VOTE: Mutley
Bye now, you're dead scum.

[MP5]

I 102% disagree with that hammer, not genuinely for reasons I can state, but whatever.

Muttley, if you are town, you now have a brief window to help us out before you are lynched. Do you have any last words to help us?

[Didi]

Woah that escalated quickly while I was asleep.

Mutley had better fucking be scum.