The Wire, Season 1 - Final Credits!

[Benmage]

Kuribo not dying would have been pretty suspect if I was scum and Kuribo was the most town as well, so that's partly right Camn.

Do you think kuribo would have turned on you if it was You/Me/Kuribo in Lylo?

PEdit: He could have. He wouldn't have done it straight away, but he may have come around to it. He actually mentioned something about it in the neighbourhood (not completely seriously though). I also tend to avoid killing people who suspect me and love going for the 'he would've taken this person to LYLO' WIFOM as scum, so I probably would have done the safe thing and just killed Kuribo.

HOW THE FUCK IS THIS NOT A SCUM CLAIM......

CAMN/DV/Kuribo lylo without me = DV IS SCUM?!?!?!!??!?!

[Benmage]

Benmage- what is this? Am I missing something?

You mean besides the several glaring points I pointed out??

How about this:

DV KNEW the game wasn't over after Kise selfhammers

DV KNEW the game wasn't over after Kise selfhammers

DV KNEW the game wasn't over after Kise selfhammers

DV KNEW the game wasn't over after Kise selfhammers

DV KNEW the game wasn't over after Kise selfhammers

[Benmage]

The 3397 ego comment, is the icing on the cake.

[DeasVail]

Its like you have spent the entire game claiming scum. You have a scum power role. You were 'excited' that there was no conftown in LYLO, and you would have killed the one person who you CLAIM thought you were town?

I wasn't excited. I said I would have been excited if I were scum.

Also, that's just what I do. I'm sure someone has commented on it somewhere.

3398 is trying too hard to have 'the town perspective'.

Also I've decided that the Kise self-hammer comment isn't really as bad-looking as I thought it was.

[camn]

I'm feeling convinced.

Deas- your claim sucks. your scumhunting has been inadequate. I dont think you deserve the win.

any last words?

[DeasVail]

I'm sorry that my play hasn't been very good this game, but I do think that there are a lot of things here that are different from what I would have done as scum. (Like the Kise comment, I wouldn't do anything that could possibly resemble a scumslip as scum)

Obviously you're town Camn, and even if I don't deserve the win, hammering me means your loss as well. I may not be able to convince you of this, but I'm always going to want you to hammer Benmage obviously.

If my claim sucks, you can blame Faraday for giving me the

fakeclaim

role.

And yeah, sorry if I should have done something different today.

[DeasVail]

But yes, just stop thinking and hammer Benmage, that would be the ideal.

[DeasVail]

Also, the way 3404 is worded gives me the hope that you're tricking me and that you're actually going to hammer Benmage. If it's not the case then

[DeasVail]

Oh and post-game they may not think I've stressed this enough, but what Cerulean and Kuribo thought is not irrelevant.

[The Baltimore Sun]

Day 7, Votecount 1

Deasvail (1) - Benmage
Benmage (1) - Deasvail

Not voting (1) :

camn

• With 3 alive it takes 2 to lynch.
  
• Deadline is on 29th of April at 10:47am GMT
  
• Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2013-04-29 17:47:28)

[camn]

Do you think kuribo would have turned on you if it was You/Me/Kuribo in Lylo?

He could have. He wouldn't have done it straight away, but he may have come around to it. He actually mentioned something about it in the neighbourhood (not completely seriously though).

what Cerulean and Kuribo thought is not irrelevant.

More dissonance!

[DeasVail]

I didn't kill Kuribo though?

Maybe the weirdness of Kuribo being alive would have made him reconsider their previous town beliefs. I didn't say it was definite, just a possibility.

Also I feel really silly speculating about all this because really I have no idea.

What I know is that based on my posts both here and in the neighbourhood they both correctly believed to me be town. They were town so their opinions can be trusted as being honest. Plessiez was wrong, but I don't really know what to say about that.

[Benmage]

incomingmassiveamountsofwine

For what it's worth, had I been scum I surely would have entered more timidly... Even the almighty scumBenmage, gets anxious. Which scum isn't anxious come lylo.... I would have slow played and kept my options up just like DV did... it is simply the more logical scum play.

Period.

/endwine

[DeasVail]

The fact that you believe it to be a scummy thing to do is a good explanation for you avoiding it.

[DeasVail]

CAMN!!!

I have just realised the answer to all your problems! (i.e. you can both think and hammer the scum!)

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=725

Here Benmage-town quickvotes me in 3P LYLO and is WRONG! (I was on an alt, but it was obvious who I was and I posted on this account post-game)

Would he do the exact same thing as town again without hesitation?

I don't think so!

(Well maybe he would, but it's something for you to consider anyway)

Also, his play here seems a lot more "Look at how town I am!" than it is there.

[Benmage]

The fact that you believe it to be a scummy thing to do is a good explanation for you avoiding it.

You give me a lot of credit... That I had the foresight to recognize not only myself, but scum in lylo in general. That is to have the common trait of being 'anxious'... and that I would attempt to appear aggressive, and essentially go 'all in'... to look abnormal, and therefore town? (Am I following correctly thus far) I do this, also fully knowing that tactically slow playing and seeing others sentiment could be a safer/more option route (i.e. if we pretend you're town.. you came in all herr urr you're both town).

Then are we also giving me the foresight to make this claim that scum slow play their opener some X amount of posts later, hoping also that the person I went 'all in' on, acted in this manner...

Geeeze

I appreciate the link to that game tho... TY for illustrating a naturally acting townBenmage in lylo... Oh look damn near identical to this one.

Camn try out this math problem: (--)*(--)+(--)+([]) =

------[]

[DeasVail]

You're making it sound a lot more unusual than it is.

And I mean, going against me doesn't really reduce your chances, does it?

[DeasVail]

Also, I'm really really cautious and every LYLO I've been in I've taken

ages

to vote.

[camn]

Also, I'm really really cautious and every LYLO I've been in I've taken

ages

to vote.

Why? Did you really think >I< was scum?

[DeasVail]

I thought you could have been.

[camn]

ok... im going to debate on paper here about last night.

DV-SCUM:

the kill initially didnt even make any sense coming from DV.
His partnership was pretty well established HERE IN THREAD... though I really dont know what happened in the 'hood. It seems like killing BEN would have been the move for him, because a Kuribo/DVscum seems like a slam dunk to mislynch me, right? Or killing ME, and trying to push Ben
Unless DVscum was over-respectful of my (and Ben's) defensive game in lylo, and didnt think he could push it through. Then what? Then killing kuribo, a player I had said openly was the ONLY town-read I had would make sense.. especially given my push on Benmage yesterday. It makes sense he would have thought I would just keep going for ben.

So- I can talk myself into DV scum keeping me alive.. but its hard. Keeping kuribo would have made more sense.
And then he states in thread that he would have killed kuribo as scum. sheesh.


BEN SCUM:

As stated earlier, if ben was scum he was slightly stuck here. leaving kuribo and dv alive? just as above- it seems they would team up. leaving me and kuribo alive? instant death.
So a kuribo kill is the obv benscum play. I had expressed some doubts about DV

---
now in the WIFOM spirit- did DVscum know that that was the obv Benscumplay, and play it for pure gamesmanship?

------------------
And lets talk balance:
14 town/4scum/1survivor

I think of that as 14/4 really-->survivors dont exist.

So- thats not lopsided in pure numbers. lets look at power:

VANILLA x7 (or8)
Vig (3x)
Freindly
Neighborizer (3x)
JOAT
kill-proof (1x)
Doc
?Bodyguard/daytalkenabler

vs:

Even Tracker
Rolecop (nerfed as traitor, 2x)
Goon
Goon? Bodyguard/daytalkenabler? Other, unclaimed?

hmm.




I think I might just have to go with my this rationale:

1)DV's claim is junk
2)Dvs play is not particularly respectable overall from a hunting perspective.. Whereas review of Bens game shows decent effort, and decent results across time.
3)kuribo/benmage UberBattle- fake? i read it as town/town.
4) overall balance- that is a LOT of town power, even without DV. vs what.. a tracker? Either Ben is a strong scum PR, or DV is scum
5) I dont think Ben was bussing Jason. He seemed truly reluctant, and actually surprised that Jason flipped. If I were jasons partner.. I would have bussed harder. Earlier. And better.

[DeasVail]

1) It's a weird role, but I don't think it's the kind of role that Faraday would give as a fakeclaim, and I don't have the creativity to make it up. We now know that I couldn't have had a scumbuddy that suggested it to me. I really think the most logical thing here is that it's my actual role.

I don't think 2) is very relevant. I'm pretty sure there generally isn't less hunting in my scumplay and I wouldn't expect that from Benmage either.

4) I don't think my role changes things much balance-wise.

I don't know how to argue about Ben's play. I thought he was town for a while too, but he's scum, so...

[camn]

Its the CHARACTER that sucks.
The role is, as previously mentioned, a role that benefits scum as well as town, and could go either way.
But wallace is a snitch. He doesn't help the guys in the strip club communicate. He snitches to the PO and gets killed.

[DeasVail]

Well I do help the PO communicate in the day. And the daytalk enabling ability is linked to my ratting.

I don't have anything more to say about that, but the fact that it doesn't fit doesn't make it a likely fakeclaim, it makes it more likely that I made it up, and I don't think it's the kind of thing that I'd make up.

[camn]

How does it make it less likely fake?
It just shows that the Character claim isn't well linked, flavor-wise, to the ROLE claim.
Either could be false.

I think Wallace was a fake claim, and you should have faked Vanilla Goon instead of your actual power... but you couldn't resist.