Newbie 1381 Oakhaven is Overrun Game Over

[jmo16mla]

Youre touching too many topics.

If you are Vanilla, you should NOT lie about your role and go on to say that you are a doc, JK, cop so on and so forth. Doing so may cause the real cop, doc or JK (if there is one) to counter claim you. In the end, you get lynched because you fake claimed, and the real PR gets NK'd therefore town looses two guys, one being a PR.

What are you talking about suicide townie?

[talah]

Ah ok, so if you're vanilla town you're allowed to lie, just not about your role?

[jmo16mla]

per the Being a good IC page

While it is okay to lie as scum, it is NEVER okay to lie in your role as an IC.

Is this what you were looking for?

[talah]

No not really but thanks, I thought that really if you were a town role or rather a VT role it was frowned on to lie at all in that role. Something about lynch all liars.

I should have asked this ages ago huh.

[jmo16mla]

Anyone is allowed to lie as any role. It is frowned upon if you lie

about your role

if you are indeed town.

Does that answer your question?

[talah]

Absolutely, thanks.

VOTE: Tybalt

[Greywing]

To all those still on the Jmo wagon: Care to explain why you still think this is a viable lynch after Jmo's Townslip after he believed he was hammered? I'm specifically looking at Mothrax and Wolf, as they've both posted since.

Absolutely, thanks.

VOTE: Tybalt

Explain.

[jmo16mla]

One scum out of {genwolf, hyper, and mothrax}

It's rare there is no scum on an L-1 wagon.

I'm still with mothrax. Then again, I inspected gen wolfs slot from the beginning. Will re read tomorrow morning. We don't ave much time and a no lynch isn't an option.

Everyone who is NOT posting, you're being entirely anti town, I'm inclined to believe that the scum, one if not both haven't posted recently to keep the game at a stand still.

[Malakittens]

@Mala: Please also explain what the delay or reason for withholding was or is.

? I'm with-holding.. What exactly?

___

Anyways I liked Talah's humor in the beginning, but now he's just being plain rude. Maybe I'm against rudeness, idk. I just don't like his attitude overall towards Jmo. Note to Talah: Stop being a dick.

____

Honestly, HoneyBee, I want to reread from scratch. I been going away for so long I forgot what happened in the beginning. I'm disconnected (which isn't helpful) Right now I think this day was dragging (as much as I feel sadness for Rach - I don't know if we should have had a dead line extension)


My reads currently are:

Scum:

Jmo
Tybalt

Leaning scum:

Talah (Might be the attitude I dislike - it's currently bugging me)

Null:

Mothrax
Gen
Grey

Town:

Honeybee
Hyper

___

@talah:

Don't self-vote even if it's a joke.

[talah]

Explain.

? I'm with-holding.. What exactly?

either you are...

Embarrassing and ridiculous logic caused by belief that VT cannot knowingly lie. IF X knowingly lied THEN X is scum AND Y knowingly ignoring or supporting the lie is scum.

Wrong. Anti-town =/= Scum.

[Malakittens]

What the actual fuck?

Does this mean I'm withholding something.

I have no clue what you're trying to say.

Break it down for me.

[talah]

Sorry. I thought that if I caught JMO in a lie it meant he was 100% confirmed as scum and as long as I could explain it adequately the rest of town would have to vote.

I thought therefore that JMO had been pulling the wool over everyone's eyes and proceeded to go for his throat to catch him out to confirm my own suspicions and to prove to the rest of the town that he was scum.

When everyone continued to ignore the fact that there couldn't be three mafia ingame as an objective reality (me repeatedly asking JMO for a read on myself to either come to the conclusion that he was either in a logical loop or otherwise) and when he said he couldn't get a read on me but had already said he was sure that Gen and Mothrax were scum, I believed I had caught him in a lie and proceeded to attempt to 'convince' HB that he MUST be scum (at the time I thought the two must be JMO and Grey). When HB totally ignored me I had no idea why, but felt sure I could explain the logic and basically fell on my knees begging that this must be right.

When that didn't pan out I had to assume that HB was scum and went back to make some halfarsed case against her manipulating me or something. I also had the presumption that JMO had somehow deceived everyone else because being only two of them they must be scumbuddies, so I proceeded to let everyone else off the hook and start to explain my 'of course, this must be what Tybalt's thinking' etc. I also felt that JMO was taunting me with the fact he'd tricked everyone. It became increasingly frustrating trying to explain and have no-one see it or listen.

I asked you to explain why you didn't hammer JMO, whether it was knowingly or because you'd been tricked too.

Feel free to pick it apart but it's not really game related. I only had suspicions of JMO earlier and didn't change my vote until I've just changed it to tybalt now so it doesn't much change anything else of what I've said previously to be examined anyway. I'm voting Tybalt now because of semi-sheeping and a null-ish read, although a couple of the things he's said have been a little bit off depending on how you look at them.

[Malakittens]

No, I wasn't around to hammer. Plus Tybalt I rather have lynched over Jmo, but I haven't had time to make a clear case.

[Gen_Wolf]

Because I have had no one else to vote for. Yes, I should probably have unvoted but the wagon was no longer their and thus there is no longer any danger of an imminent hammer.

Anyways, while you are present, please explain why in the last 150 odd posts you have done the bare minimum to contribute to scum hunting:

Post #317:

@Jmo: Since it looks like you're dying today, who would be your other choice as scum?

Post #396

Mothrax, although I'll accept a lynch of Talah or Wolf. They've been pushing your wagon heavily. If you flip Town (which I highly suspect you will,) then I don't see how the scum team isn't in this group.

@Jmo: Before someone hammers you, do you see Talah as the most likely partner for Mothrax then?

Post #398:

I thought so too at first so I went back and checked before I made that last post. You're at L-1: Wolf, Mothrax, Talah, and Hyperion.

Post #456

To all those still on the Jmo wagon: Care to explain why you still think this is a viable lynch after Jmo's Townslip after he believed he was hammered? I'm specifically looking at Mothrax and Wolf, as they've both posted since.

Now, those posts have questions but there is nothing analytical about your play. There are big gaps in between those posts where a lot happened yet you mentioned nothing about those posts? Are they irrelevant or are you just ignoring them?

Anyways,

unvote

, my only issue is that Talah and JMO need to get there shit together for day 2.

Also, Talah im not shmaaking this self voting BS.

[Gen_Wolf]

To all those still on the Jmo wagon: Care to explain why you still think this is a viable lynch after Jmo's Townslip after he believed he was hammered? I'm specifically looking at Mothrax and Wolf, as they've both posted since.

Absolutely, thanks.

VOTE: Tybalt

Explain.

@Rach: Will have limited access till Saturday, if thats ok please, have my final exam on Thursday and driving home on Friday. Will be on the forums and will follow the game but posting will be limited.

Ouens, I realise deadline is approaching so I will try and stay as involved as possible but it will be at limited times. Just a warning but also just letting you know that I am aware deadline is approaching.

[talah]

Grey I would really like to know about this too. First thought it was coaching but now I'm just wondering what it was.

@Jmo: Before someone hammers you, do you see Talah as the most likely partner for Mothrax then?

And you should contribute more huh...

Talah, your opinion on gen?

JMO, Gen I like the posts of, but I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to be looking for as far as scumhunting goes. He's opinionated.

(Sorry for my behaviour toward. I hope I've explained a bit of the reasoning but it was undoubtedly rude and offensive, no excuses.)

[Hyperion]

Will catch up after work tonight

[Honey bee]

Grey, why do you think mothrax is scum? Because he didn't like a vote?

Townslips aren't that reliable imo. I've faked stuff in order to get towned, so I'd think it naive to confirm jmo as town.

Thank you mala for the reads. Waiting for wonderful posts from hyperion and tybalt as they've promised them for quite a while.

Also I highly doubt mothrax is scum. I don't see it AT ALL. He didn't like jmo's poor play through most of the day, he didn't like jmo's excuses, and after making a vote lacking context he voted jmo. These reasons aren't strong but I don't think they're scummy.

I should be around a computer until deadline, so I'm here to discuss and vote as needed.

[tybalt]

Tues and I'm back, ketchup to be released. Get ready!!!!!

[Greywing]

I don't think we're going to get a lot more accomplished at this point until we get a lynch and can see someone's alignment. As Mala said, this day has been dragging, and we need to come up with some sort of consensus here.

I'm vehemently opposed to lynching Honey Bee, Mala and Jmo. They're strong Town reads. I had a slight Town read on Hyperion due to the play of his predecessor, so I don't want him lynched either. He's someone that I'll reanalyze on D2 after we start seeing some flips.

I want our lynch to be one of Mothrax/Wolf/Talah. As I've said, I believe at least one of the scum is in this group. I don't see any of them being lynched today though unfortunately. That leaves us with Tybalt, and it looks like the lynch is between him and Jmo today. I feel a lot better supporting the Tybalt wagon as I could potentially see a case for him being scum (although I feel more confident about the other three I mentioned,) and I feel more comfortable following a wagon led by my two strongest Town reads throughout the game.

Grey, why do you think mothrax is scum? Because he didn't like a vote?

...

Also I highly doubt mothrax is scum. I don't see it AT ALL. He didn't like jmo's poor play through most of the day, he didn't like jmo's excuses, and after making a vote lacking context he voted jmo. These reasons aren't strong but I don't think they're scummy.

It was essentially gut for the most part for awhile, which is why I never pushed it. His vote on Jmo felt highly opportunistic however, hence my vote. While yes, he did question Jmo's play, he was adamant that his scum reads were Talah and me until he decided to switch his vote. Besides, it's not like he was the only one questioning Jmo's play...a number of players were. As you know, just questioning someone doesn't make someone Town so I don't understand why he's getting a free pass because of that.

[Honey bee]

I dunno, he stated talah was scummy around the time he said jmo scummy, and disappeared for the most part between that read and him switching. I don't see why he can't change his mind on which one is scummier. I do agree he doesn't get a free pass, but I think in most instances town will switch when they see a bad vote. He voted you also wayyy back for something that happened on page 1-2, so to me it seems like a better time to switch with new information.

Of course, I'd like mothrax to explain if those first few posts are why he still has a scum read on you.

Tues and I'm back, ketchup to be released. Get ready!!!!!

Great! We only have 15 hours! Hurry up!

[Malakittens]

Guys. You keep moving your votes around and if there's a no lynch. I'm not going to be a happy cat - I'll have all four paws out with claws coming into Day 2.

Gen is on V/LA, Tybalt is half on V/LA.

Talah moved his vote which makes it 2, 3 & 2.

We need to come decide to who we are lynching and lynch them.

[jmo16mla]

Tues and I'm back, ketchup to be released. Get ready!!!!!

uh...

[Gen_Wolf]

Tues and I'm back, ketchup to be released. Get ready!!!!!

uh...

Classic.

I want our lynch to be one of Mothrax/Wolf/Talah. As I've said, I believe at least one of the scum is in this group.

Your reasonings?


This game has hit a standstill. I thought once I went to sleep I would wake up to lots of activity and all that. We need to lynch someone else D2 will be the exact same as now. I am still happy with a JMO lynch. He has been my biggest scum read the whole day and because nothing else seems to be happening. I will also vote Tybalt, his lack of play and his constant I will give you my reads now and then doesn't. Either he is just lazy, in which case I would please urge him to replace out, or its a gambit so he never has to answer up to the questions posted.

I'll be back just before deadline to make my final decision.

[talah]

Yeah I didn't really want to post before deadline but I'm actually against a JMO lynch in principle and probably practice now. I started tunnelling him at a very early stage and have looked back over the sequence of events. I just don't think there's a lot even to be learned if JMO gets lynched and is town, because his statements are terse and easily taken in the wrong way if you've already decided he's mafia.

My two cents. JMO, Grey, Gen, Moth, are any of you prepared to switch your votes to Tybalt? HB's given a pretty good case earlier (ISOing tybalt is the easiest way to find it)