History Mafia Mini Theme - 1358 Game Over!

[Quilford]

Also, fuck, IceGuy, claiming as you did Day 1 was stupid as fuck.

[IceGuy]

Also, fuck, IceGuy, claiming as you did Day 1 was stupid as fuck.

In retrospect, yes. I didn't know a Gender Cop was essentially a Cop.

[Quilford]

I don't think this setup was balanced.

By sheer probability, Vigs will hit town targets, and can lose town lynches. It was also

ineffective against one of the scum roles

.
The Tracker had three false positives, one of whom was

a killing role

.
As IceGuy noted, it would be hard for the Gender Cop to realise they were in effect an actual Cop

without a few scum flips

. The role was

also ineffective against one of the scum roles

(the same scum role who was bulletproof -- why would you do that). Also, it was

only two-shot

. What.
The Motivator was as

pro-town as it was pro-scum

, because of the strengths of the scum PRs vs the town PRs.
And if that collection of roles wasn't weak enough, the scum have a

full-powered Roleblocker

to counter them anyway.

This is why you need multiple reviewers.

[Quilford]

So yeah, I think the town was hard done by role-wise. What was supposedly 'great night play' by the scum was really just obvious night play with nothing to counteract it.

And then of course you have people like DCLXVI fakeclaiming Miller and then some insane bout of stupidity leading to a Day 3 ChaosOmega lynch.

[MichelSableheart]

Modding was good. The game never had significant problems with inactivity, vote counts came regulary, communication with regards to game state was clear, flavour was excellent. The only minor point I have would be not calling the game during the last night. There was no way mafia could lose, so why not let them win?

I have to agree with Quilford about the setup, though. Even if godfather was not immune to the cop, mafia had far more power then they needed. If we had been three goons, the game would have played out exactly the same, with mafia winning after losing one of their members on the day 1 lynch, since none of our abilities ever affected the game. So why did mafia need a roleblocker AND a bulletproof AND daytalk?

Also, odd night vig is probably an inappropriate choice for a 13 player mini. If he doesn't get two shots in, the vig will cost the town a lynch. Being unable to shoot night 2 is therefore an extreme disadvantage. 2 shot or full vig would probably have been a better role. (Though with Matt blocking CO night 2, it wouldn't have made a difference)

---

This was a very strange game for me. I had the feeling we played horrible, yet somehow we pulled of the win relatively easily. Daytalk was extremely poorly utilized. All it did was cause Vash' comments to look scripted, and leak info at exactly the wrong moments (see Matt's comment about me being SK at the end of day 3). The bussing of McStab day 1 was probably also unnecessary. That lynch felt to me like it was almost solely the result of Matt's push and would not have happened if Matt hadn't claimed a meta read. With an unknown amount of investigation roles around, it was risky to the extreme. Matt's claim should never have worked, because a gunsmith ability simply doesn't make sense in this setup. Add the serious scumslip of using my partners name rather then CO's during speculation day 3 (picked up but never followed up on by DV), and Matt's outing my plan of claiming SK one day early.

I also don't think the nightkills were such great play by us. Quilford was simply a kill of a pro-town player, that he flipped tracker was an unexpected bonus. The kill of Iceguy was the result of Iceguy claiming to have information early, not any great deductive work on our side.

Oddly enough, I pushed for the CO lynch day 3 because I felt it was what I would do as town, not because I felt it would be best for scum. As town, given the claims, either CO or Matt had to be scum IMO. As mafia, I feel it would have been better to go for a DV lynch. CO would have shot me, failed because of bulletproof, after which his lynch would be virtually unavoidable, especially because I could claim Serial Killer in that situation.

Iceguy claiming to have info without getting the nameclaim he wanted, 666 fakeclaiming miller as Vanilla, and the general acceptance of Matt's impossible claim where probably what gave us the win, rather then good play on our part.

[Shamrock]

I still don't understand why Staeg/Bitmap/Jarvis went along with the CO lynch D3.

However, Nexus, I just want to let you know that I LOVED the puns in the thread title.

[Staeg]

I was roped into it by the swarm of dumb and it's my fault
Not sure how you didn't lynch mattp afterwards, though

[MattP]

Lol my gunsmith slip was as good as a scumslip

Negative utility role wtf?

[Nexus]

Sorry about the balance, I guess. I should've made the gender cop permanent - I didn't want the vig to kill every night because I thought that'd make it even swingier. Scum didn't need the roleblocker, and motivator should've changed.

Sorry.

[Shamrock]

re: Bitmap, the sig thing was that his putting that quote in his sig was basically going "lol omg i'm so bad at this game" and wouldn't really make much sense coming from scum. At least that's how I understood it.

I kind of agree that the setup is a little questionable, especially having a full scum RB versus a very limited set of town power roles, but it's not unforgivably scum-sided, just moderately so. And of course town played pretty bad too, including me. This was my first game back on this site after many years of not playing mafia so I didn't expect to do very well, and indeed I didn't!

The gender cop was a cool idea though.

[IceGuy]

I'm taking more issue at the "Gender" part than at the "2-shot" part.

The way I read my role I figured scum players have a role of one gender but fake claims of another.

[Nexus]

All the scum were female. Female = Guilty. I should've made that clearer, although the first flip should've helped that. Sorry, my bad.

[Staeg]

All the scum were female. Female = Guilty. I should've made that clearer, although the first flip should've helped that. Sorry, my bad.

No, you shouldn't have - that was the coolest part of the setup. I guess that everything else said here is legit, though.

[MattP]

I was roped into it by the swarm of dumb and it's my fault
Not sure how you didn't lynch mattp afterwards, though

I don't think that was a reason to lynch me lol, I think my roleclaim was but not that.

[Staeg]

It's a combo of your claim + CO being town + me dying over you. The fact that you yourself said that I'm no longer confirmed town due to your gunsmith being a "negative utility role" means that I should never have died before you or even bitmap, but then again I'd (attempt to) have your head on a pike the next day... not sure if I'd win a 1v1 with you.

[Eddard Stark]

All the scum were female. Female = Guilty. I should've made that clearer, although the first flip should've helped that. Sorry, my bad.

No, you shouldn't have - that was the coolest part of the setup. I guess that everything else said here is legit, though.

The tracker false positive part is dumb, though? It's only a false positive if they target the player who dies? And since motivator is provable then yeah. Also there was the chance the scum team could be wiped out by Day 2. I'd remove the Gf and maybe limit the roleblocker but I think town had sufficent power. Set-up looks worse due to bad town play, too. Claiming miller was...I don't know. I actually had to make sure we didn't include one in the set-up ._. Plus 2 investigative roles (even if one is weak) in a mini is reasonably strong. 2-shot vig would have been better, too.

Day-talk was fine, anyway. But yeah, limiting the roleblocker (maybe 1-shot) and drop the GF. I guess since the GF didn't play a part it's not so bad.

MattP's roleclaim made literally zero sense though. Like...well anyway, well done him for pulling it off?

[MattP]

Choosing you to die was a cost-benefit choice. If you lived over Bitmap I knew I would have a much more difficult time controlling your vote. I knew, however, your NK made less sense, but I just assumed it's wasn't obnoxiously obvious enough for anyone left to notice. And I was right, Bitmap was easy as fuck to control all round, especially the last day when I verbatim just said "Bitmap, vote DV" and he did, which was pretty fuckin hilarious.

[MattP]

Does someone have a link to the dead QT?

I can link the scum QT if everyone is ok with it.

[MattP]

Never mind, I see them derp

[Nexus]

I always link them. People don't get a choice then

[MattP]

NO WAY would MattP fail to account for vig as gunsmith - can't believe no one caught that.

Oh yeah I got really sloppy and impatient there hehe

[Bitmap]

Bleh, I should of put more focus in this game and try to get MattP lynched early.

[Equinox]

Mine?