Mafia of the Raptured (Game Over!)

[Zdenek]

Oh, and that it's Tierce, but again for today, that's neither here nor there.

[Amrun]

You mean an sk that is also a secret voter???

I could dig that, though it would be quite strange.

p-edit: Wait, really?

But Tierce thought Antagon was town, right?

Why would tierce-sk-ghostvoter do that?

[MattP]

2) fferyllt
3) implosion
6) hp [leaves]
7) Oversoul
9) sword_of_omens
12) Tierce

Can we agree the scum are all in here? I'm not asking for you to simplify the list more, Zdenek, I'm asking if you think I missed anyone that could be scum

[Zdenek]

You mean an sk that is also a secret voter???

I could dig that, though it would be quite strange.

p-edit: Wait, really?

But Tierce thought Antagon was town, right?

Why would tierce-sk-ghostvoter do that?

Yes, SK that is also a secret voter.
Yes, really.
Yes, she did.
To get cred off his town-flip, in case he flipped town.

[Amrun]

Why would you think calling someone town who is, in fact, town would give her cred? Scum know who town are (in a straightforward 1-scum-flavor game, I suppose... which in this argument isn't the case.)

Hmm.

Well, it's an interesting theory. Not sure how grounded it is, but kool aid is fun, isn't it?

[Katsuki]

2) fferyllt
3) implosion
6) hp [leaves]
7) Oversoul
9) sword_of_omens
12) Tierce

Can we agree the scum are all in here? I'm not asking for you to simplify the list more, Zdenek, I'm asking if you think I missed anyone that could be scum

What happened to that scum list that had me in it? ^^

[MattP]

What happened to that scum list that had me in it? ^^

Decided you were cute

[Zdenek]

2) fferyllt
3) implosion
6) hp [leaves]
7) Oversoul
9) sword_of_omens
12) Tierce

Can we agree the scum are all in here? I'm not asking for you to simplify the list more, Zdenek, I'm asking if you think I missed anyone that could be scum

hmmmm, this is not really how I approach mafia, I mean everyone *could* be scum. What I really want is an [hp] flip because I expect that he'll flip scum, and regardless of what he flips his flip should make it possible to do wagon analysis based on yesterday's wagons - for that it makes a big difference what he flips.

[Zdenek]

Why would you think calling someone town who is, in fact, town would give her cred?

Having accurate reads/not being on town lynches is a positive thing if you want to get people to listen to you/not lynch you.

[Oversoul]

His curse is the reason Ganondorf exists in the Legend of Zelda series.

Wtf are you a nerd??

well duh but that is neither here nor there

2) fferyllt
3) implosion
6) hp [leaves]
9) sword_of_omens
12) Tierce

Can we agree the scum are all in here? I'm not asking for you to simplify the list more, Zdenek, I'm asking if you think I missed anyone that could be scum

Now we are getting somewhere!

I don't understand why you all are flipping out about the double vote?

Two scum teams is pretty... uh... not like Vi in my experience. It changes the balance of things.
But I'm waiting Tierce to actually do something today so I can solidify my town?read on her.

[Tierce]

...So you think that I, as SK, one of the most vulnerable roles in the game (don't I know it, look how I handled kills in New Age Mafia II--i.e.

didn't perform them

once I hit the same targets as the scum TWICE, thus letting me pass unknown for the rest of the game), would have absolutely blundered on my read on Antagon and flipped back and forth on it like there's no tomorrow.

I'm a pragmatical player. That would have been incredibly

stupid

as either scum or SK.

There is not a hint of cred in it for me.

During the Night, I pretty much called any kind of suspicion on me Today out of Antagon's scum flip Yesterday, but seriously, look at how things unfolded and you'll realize it's ridiculous.

Of

course

Oversoul asks for a vig kill on me. We couldn't have it otherwise. :hitoshrug:


Hey Matt--weren't you calling me Town just now? What happened?

[Amrun]

I meant to ask you, Tierce: what is your theory on the extra kill?

[Tierce]

Vig kill; possibly SK shot. There was enough suspicion on Zach at the end of the Day that it makes sense as a vig shot. enomis was Town to everyone, that's not a surprising kill, but I'm fairly certain that Zach wasn't killed by mafia. Sad as it is, because he's an excellent player, but I'd call it far more likely to be vig (SK

maybe

) than mafia.

[Tierce]

Oh, also--Vi is all for killing third-parties with non-SK wincons. Look at Duplicity's role in Maf.Maiden. It's entirely possible the ghost voter is mafia, but yes, being third party would be very much within Vi-realms of game design.

[Katsuki]

What happened to that scum list that had me in it? ^^

Decided you were cute

Thanks. Pity you're still scum though.

[Oversoul]

Of course Oversoul asks for a vig kill on me. We couldn't have it otherwise. :hitoshrug:

You can italicize all yo uwant but I am serious

pedit: yes third party, not two scum teams

[Amrun]

I think you and maybe one other person were the only ones to suspect zach. I DON'T think any good vig would target him on night 1, even if they suspected him peripherally. It's not OUT OF THE QUESTION, I just find it unlikely.

Zach is a more experienced player with a current scummy, and that often intimidates scum, ESPECIALLY new-scum.

p-edit: Sure, could be -- but either way the only really palpable motivation for doing that is to protect hp leaves.

Even completely disregarding that whole thing, I'd want to lynch hp leaves. So I really, REALLY want to lynch him in light of that.

[Tierce]

Zdenek, I'm going to kill your Tierce-is-an-SK-ghost-voter theory right here.

Can someone unvote, please? I don't like that wagon, and I especially don't like that L-1 this early into the game.

It was the same person, and he was at L-1 here. I could have ghost-voted him, and asked for people to unvote. He would have been hammered secretly, and I would have gained far more cred.

If we hypothesize that I am a ghost-voter, you're saying that I didn't do this, and instead

deliberately

let the Day drag onto a situation that was far more awkward for me with a flip-flopping read until the end. Even if you go with the WIFOM of "Tierce didn't do it so she could talk about it later on", it's pretty damn obvious that if I was a ghost-voting SK, I then let the Day derail into a stupidly awkward situation for

me

. That makes no sense from the perspective of Tierce-SK, and should be plenty of proof that I am neither aligned with Antagon nor with any non-Town power.

Case closed, end of story, stop being paranoid. Foxes look appalling in tinfoil hats.

[Amrun]

Well, it really only means that you're not the ghost voter. But. Yeah.

[Tierce]

I think you and maybe one other person were the only ones to suspect zach. I DON'T think any good vig would target him on night 1, even if they suspected him peripherally. It's not OUT OF THE QUESTION, I just find it unlikely.

You're saying this in a game with Oversoul advocating a vig shot on

me

on D2, when I am a player with a very distinct Town and scum meta who he has played with

multiple times

and has no idea how to read anyway.

With another playerlist I might agree with you. With this one, my theory of Zach being a non-mafia kill stands. I can't believe that

enomis

wasn't killed by some flavor of scum, and it was very probably mafia due to him being the first to ride Whimsical Eggplant to the gallows.


PEdit: Feh, essentially the same thing. If you want to call me an SK who was stupidly awkward Yesterday when 1) my scumplay has been slowly improving and 2) I am better at independent than mafia, then go ahead. But SKs survive by mixing in with the crowd, and flip-flopping on a read is not going to do that regardless of how the person flips.

[MattP]

2) fferyllt
3) implosion
6) hp [leaves]
7) Oversoul
9) sword_of_omens

WOOOOSSSHHHHHH

[Tierce]

Hey Matt--weren't you calling me Town just now? What happened?

You did not answer my question. Removing me from your scumreads doesn't explain why I was ever there.

[Amrun]

I think asserting that you wouldn't flip flop on reads as scum is a little strange, Tierce, since I've seen you do that But, regardless, I think the likelihood of you being scum with Antagon is low, and don't have any interest in lynching you.

[Katsuki]

I still remember Matts lolzy posts before the board crash as to why I was scum, then 180 after everyone started calling me town post-tigers.

[Amrun]

I'm actually interested in Matt's 180 as well.

But it may have happened pre-tigers. Not sure.