Newbie 1389 Trouble in River City Game Over Scum win

[fferyllt]

Jasonwazza

I'll be honest there is something about this game that just makes it meh to read.

How does this fit in with your activity observation?

IME demotivation and lack of involvement is more often scummy than towny. Jason's early activity level wasn't bad. He raged about getting called out for not making a post overnight, but nearly 5 days without a post is ridiculous. He should have been prodded 2 days ago, but with all the confusion after the site crash, a lot of stuff is slipping through the cracks.

[TheTrollie]

VOTE: sik

shhh....I'm lurking

Hey, if you stop lurking maybe we could talk about the game?

yeah that would be cool. I have to catch up first though.

Also, if we can't/won't hang Fferyllt... I'm perfectly happy hanging Trollie for being absolutely useless.

I'm an investment. Eventually I'll start to care about this game and will make u a happy lil boy

[fferyllt]

For starters are you still townreading jason?

[TheTrollie]

For starters are you still townreading jason?

nah i think i lost that a while ago...didnt i post that?

[fferyllt]

I don't think you did.

What made you lose the townread?

[cAPSLOCK]

I agree Jason's absence is interesting. And even though I am somewhat more overwhelmed by learning this sites etiquette than with playing the game I am feeling about as strong a scum read on him as I ever do on day one. He yells and deflects criticism which I find often scummy. The bit of meta searches I've done on him, however reveal this is fairly normal for his play style mi us the disappearing act part.

I would love a VC / mod update.

[cAPSLOCK]

Will will be on vacation beginning tomorrow. I will they took check in at least once a day while I am in the mountains.

[TheTrollie]

I don't think you did.

What made you lose the townread?

well this post

Ok since that rage post is out of my system i will re-read what i missed and post content.

is very town but his earlier posts were iffy. when i reread i realized that he wasnt obvtown

[cAPSLOCK]

Will will be on vacation beginning tomorrow. I will they took check in at least once a day while I am in the mountains.

Should read

I will try to check in at least once a day...

[fferyllt]

I don't think you did.

What made you lose the townread?

well this post

Ok since that rage post is out of my system i will re-read what i missed and post content.

is very town but his earlier posts were iffy. when i reread i realized that he wasnt obvtown

yeah, I thought he looked pretty town at first, too. It's mostly the tunneling capslock to the exclusion of others and the low level of engagement that bother me about him.

what is it about sikon that looks scummy to you?

[TheTrollie]

You should vote me, then, because I never RVS.

Well, if the IC tells me to, it must be a good idea!

VOTE: fferyllt

town

Jason, I don't like your newbie-biting. If you expect all newbies to both do enough reading to know that mafiascum games start with an RVS and to notice that their confirmation is the one that starts the game, you're going to be disappointed a lot. However, this seems likely to be a nulltell rather than a scumtell.

david, I was in bed when my role pm arrived, and checking mafiascum is not the first thing I do when I get up. Besides, wouldn't it make sense for the last people to confirm to be the people with the least exciting roles, e.g. Vanilla Townie? (Not that I'm saying what role I am, except that I win with the town)
I'll VOTE: Vote:imkingdavid because this seems like bad logic.

This post causes me to think Kueshina leans town, simply because if he weren't, he would probably have known that mafia can talk during setup and wouldn't have found "stalling = mafia" to be quite so questionable as a reason to cast a random vote. Granted, his eagerness to assure us that he wins with the town could be thought of as off-putting, but I'm willing to assume this is innocent coming from one of the newbies for now. Of course, I think his scumread on imkingdavid is... misguided. He seems null to me.

Day 1s always start fine without me RVSing.

The thing is, though, that RVS is a way to start discussion and allow players to develop reads earlier, right? It seems to me that creating a meta of "does not RVS" simply allows you to escape scrutiny on those occasions when you

are

assigned scum, and RVSing may prove hazardous to you.

Then again, what do I know? I'm just a newbie.

Also: I am not actually accusing you of

being

scum just yet, I obviously don't have a read on you. My vote is still an RVS vote.

fluff, more fluff, distancing, fluff.
Scum

Well, thanks for the vote of confidence, fferyllt, I appreciate that. And your argument for not RVSing does make sense, I suppose.
UNVOTE: fferyllt
The thing is, perhaps due in part to my lack of experience, I don't really know how else you'd start a game on day 1 with no information. It seems to me RVS has to at least

happen

, if only to get the ball rolling.

This pretty much. There seems to be plenty of flailing around going on, and I'll be glad to take part. I suppose if people weren't rvsing I'd most likely try to start something...

This is worded in a way that puzzles me somewhat. What is the "something" that you want to "try to start?"

fluffy.
its just my strongest scum read because of all the fluff in these posts

[Cheery Dog]

Cheery's catch-up post 183 is pretty long for such a short game thread. He commented it may be his longest catch up post ever, which given the thread length strikes an odd note. He was also pretty indirect about most of his reads. I pointed this out, and he clarified his reads in post 195.

Most of the time I don't bother reading. (you'll probably note that there isn't actually that much useful stuff in that catch up post - I've probably left those out previous times. (my previous record was 5 quotes) I probably did quote more there because to me 9 pages is still early game.

[RachMarie]

Sorry for my absence I have been rather ill past few days and in bed a lot. VC coming up--Rach

[sikon327]

You should vote me, then, because I never RVS.

Well, if the IC tells me to, it must be a good idea!

VOTE: fferyllt

town

Jason, I don't like your newbie-biting. If you expect all newbies to both do enough reading to know that mafiascum games start with an RVS and to notice that their confirmation is the one that starts the game, you're going to be disappointed a lot. However, this seems likely to be a nulltell rather than a scumtell.

david, I was in bed when my role pm arrived, and checking mafiascum is not the first thing I do when I get up. Besides, wouldn't it make sense for the last people to confirm to be the people with the least exciting roles, e.g. Vanilla Townie? (Not that I'm saying what role I am, except that I win with the town)
I'll VOTE: Vote:imkingdavid because this seems like bad logic.

This post causes me to think Kueshina leans town, simply because if he weren't, he would probably have known that mafia can talk during setup and wouldn't have found "stalling = mafia" to be quite so questionable as a reason to cast a random vote. Granted, his eagerness to assure us that he wins with the town could be thought of as off-putting, but I'm willing to assume this is innocent coming from one of the newbies for now. Of course, I think his scumread on imkingdavid is... misguided. He seems null to me.

Day 1s always start fine without me RVSing.

The thing is, though, that RVS is a way to start discussion and allow players to develop reads earlier, right? It seems to me that creating a meta of "does not RVS" simply allows you to escape scrutiny on those occasions when you

are

assigned scum, and RVSing may prove hazardous to you.

Then again, what do I know? I'm just a newbie.

Also: I am not actually accusing you of

being

scum just yet, I obviously don't have a read on you. My vote is still an RVS vote.

fluff, more fluff, distancing, fluff.
Scum

Well, thanks for the vote of confidence, fferyllt, I appreciate that. And your argument for not RVSing does make sense, I suppose.
UNVOTE: fferyllt
The thing is, perhaps due in part to my lack of experience, I don't really know how else you'd start a game on day 1 with no information. It seems to me RVS has to at least

happen

, if only to get the ball rolling.

This pretty much. There seems to be plenty of flailing around going on, and I'll be glad to take part. I suppose if people weren't rvsing I'd most likely try to start something...

This is worded in a way that puzzles me somewhat. What is the "something" that you want to "try to start?"

fluffy.
its just my strongest scum read because of all the fluff in these posts

Well, thanks for putting up some legitimate points for me to respond to. I notice all of these are very early game posts. Should I be expecting more to come?

Now, with regards to the posts you read as fluffy... well, if they seemed fluffy, I'd guess it's because I'm a newb. If your problem with my posts is what I

think

it is, well, lemme put it like this: I'm new to mafia. I don't know what I can or cannot expect other players to assume. So I felt I should explain as much of my thought process as possible. Just to be safe.

It's resulted in convoluted, and as you say, "fluffy" posts, yeah. I'm trying to work on that.

If your issue is with my interaction with fferyllt... I was legitimately confused as to why she wouldn't RVS. She explained her decision not to RVS. I then understood why someone might choose not to participate in RVS. I took my vote off her then because I was satisfied by her explanation, and my reasoning went that there wasn't a practical reason to keep it there anyway. I guess. I dunno, it's an RVS vote.

Also: Who am I distancing from? fferyllt? Thought you thought she was town? That's a legitimate question.

Do you have anything to say about my posts since the beginning of the game? I'm sure you must, if I'm your strongest scumread. I look forward to hearing from you again, it's a hell of a lot better than "shh I'm lurking" Trollie, in any case.

[cAPSLOCK]

Sorry for my absence I have been rather ill past few days and in bed a lot. VC coming up--Rach

Thanks and hope you feel better as soon as possible.

[TheTrollie]

i didnt mean u were distancing from anyone, it was the "what do i know im a newb" comment

best scum hunting comes from the first few pages

[fferyllt]

I wanted to let Trollie respond to that before saying anything, but my read of his post was that he meant you were distancing from your reads/opinions. Same with the "I'm not actually accusing you blah blah" part.

IC stuff below the line.

------------------------

As a rule of thumb, try not to answer questions directed at other players, especially directed at something they posted, because the Q&A is useful for getting reads on the players. And if the question has scumhunting intent someone else answering it is messing with their line of pursuit.

It should be a mafia axiom.

[sikon327]

UNVOTE: fferyllt

God dammit, I was hoping to get the input of some other players before I actually unvoted, but apparently I just did something horribly fucking wrong and it's turned my entire fucking post history into a goddamn villainous story. I don't know what's going on in this goddamn game anymore. I fucking read everything I missed but apparently I'm trying to do shit based on an incomplete understanding of what actually has gone down, because I thought being aggressive was how to get my head back in the game, and now the fucking shit I said at the beginning of the game is coming under scrutiny, because I was trying to understand what was happening, because I don't know how to play this game.

I didn't think fferyllt was scum at the beginning of the game. My vote was an RVS vote. I was trying to understand why she didn't RVS, because my ENTIRE KNOWLEDGE of forum mafia comes from the wiki and the wiki doesn't explain individual quirks that people have.

Then later, I was trying to catch up on the game, and I thought that taking an aggressive approach on the person who I thought was a likely scum person at that moment would get my head out of the "neutral zone" it was stuck in after leaving the game for like a week.

And then I asked some questions, and she answered some questions, and she answered them pretty good, and I thought I should wait for some other players to weigh in before I actually disengaged, because I thought that you don't just fucking unvote, but apparently the only person in this game who even gives a shit about anything I say anymore is theTrollie because he wants to lynch me for reasons he refuses to explain in a way that I can actually understand, and everyone else is just glossing over these ridiculous walls of text that I seem to randomly be putting out every now and then. And maybe they're right to do so! I don't fucking know!

I guess I should just back off and let the people who actually understand what's going on take over for a while.

[sikon327]

ebwodp

i'm sorry. that was a ragepost. I probably shouldn't have just started lashing out like that. Let me put this more diplomatically.

I have realized that I do not actually fully understand the current gamestate and my place in the current game.

My actions as of late have done more to draw animosity towards myself from fferyllt and theTrollie, it seems, than to actually assist in the effort to find scum.

For all of the effort I'm putting into my posts, it doesn't seem that they're actually contributing effectively towards the hunt for scum at the moment. I am frustrated by my inability to have a meaningful impact on the game at the moment. This frustration is clouding my judgement, and causing me to act in a way that doesn't seem to be helpful to the interests of the town. It seems that other people here have a better idea of how to scumhunt than I do, so I am just going to step out of their way, let them do their thing, learn from their example, and hopefully come back strong once I better understand how this game is played, if not by the end of this game, then in future games that I am involved in.

fferyllt, I accused you of being scum for spurious reasons borne of my own failure to understand how this game is actually played in practice, and a mistaken belief that if I acted aggressive and more certain than I actually was, then everything else would just fall into place. TheTrollie, my overzealous attempts to be a "leading force" in this game in spite of having not been involved in most of it have been distracting to the game as a whole, and my complaining about how you play has only further distracted from what is actually important. I'm sorry to both of you.

I'm going to lurk for a while until I have my head on straight again. I'm sorry for that too.

[TheTrollie]

wanted to let Trollie respond to that before saying anything, but my read of his post was that he meant you were distancing from your reads/opinions. Same with the "I'm not actually accusing you blah blah" part.

this is exactly how I use the term

[TheTrollie]

unvote

[fferyllt]

sikon, I want to clarify one thing. I participate during RVS. I discuss. I banter with people who vote for me, I comment on reactions to votes, etc. I just don't random vote. When I put a vote down, there's a reason. I find that following my policy of never putting down essentially meaningless votes means that my early votes have more weight, shine more attention on the player I vote, and get more reaction from the player I vote. All of that stuff is essentially meaningless when playing with people who don't know me, but I keep the policy because we will probably play together again.

[fferyllt]

ebwodp

i'm sorry. that was a ragepost. I probably shouldn't have just started lashing out like that. Let me put this more diplomatically.

I have realized that I do not actually fully understand the current gamestate and my place in the current game.

My actions as of late have done more to draw animosity towards myself from fferyllt and theTrollie, it seems, than to actually assist in the effort to find scum.

For all of the effort I'm putting into my posts, it doesn't seem that they're actually contributing effectively towards the hunt for scum at the moment. I am frustrated by my inability to have a meaningful impact on the game at the moment. This frustration is clouding my judgement, and causing me to act in a way that doesn't seem to be helpful to the interests of the town. It seems that other people here have a better idea of how to scumhunt than I do, so I am just going to step out of their way, let them do their thing, learn from their example, and hopefully come back strong once I better understand how this game is played, if not by the end of this game, then in future games that I am involved in.

fferyllt, I accused you of being scum for spurious reasons borne of my own failure to understand how this game is actually played in practice, and a mistaken belief that if I acted aggressive and more certain than I actually was, then everything else would just fall into place. TheTrollie, my overzealous attempts to be a "leading force" in this game in spite of having not been involved in most of it have been distracting to the game as a whole, and my complaining about how you play has only further distracted from what is actually important. I'm sorry to both of you.

I'm going to lurk for a while until I have my head on straight again. I'm sorry for that too.

There is no reason to apologize. Mafia is all about paranoia and trust. Sometimes the paranoia is unjustified. Sometimes the trust is misplaced. Give it a rest for a little bit and have a reread.

Sometimes it helps me to do a full reset and pretend that I just replaced into a game that isn't making any sense to me. It's not possible to completely set aside my prior impressions, but I do sometimes see the game in a different light.

[Cheery Dog]

For all of the effort I'm putting into my posts, it doesn't seem that they're actually contributing effectively towards the hunt for scum at the moment. I am frustrated by my inability to have a meaningful impact on the game at the moment. This frustration is clouding my judgement, and causing me to act in a way that doesn't seem to be helpful to the interests of the town. It seems that other people here have a better idea of how to scumhunt than I do, so I am just going to step out of their way, let them do their thing, learn from their example, and hopefully come back strong once I better understand how this game is played, if not by the end of this game, then in future games that I am involved in.

I believe you could carry on attempting to hunt in your own style, I probably haven't commented much as I haven't seen where exactly to comment in arguments and suchlike I don't have strong reads on the people involved.

But I now do have a strong town read on you after that rage post. I guess I may have another look, but nonetheless just stopping hunting helps less that seemingly hunting badly.
(even if it's just on how people are attacking you and how that may help reads on them later in the game)

[fferyllt]

For all of the effort I'm putting into my posts, it doesn't seem that they're actually contributing effectively towards the hunt for scum at the moment. I am frustrated by my inability to have a meaningful impact on the game at the moment. This frustration is clouding my judgement, and causing me to act in a way that doesn't seem to be helpful to the interests of the town. It seems that other people here have a better idea of how to scumhunt than I do, so I am just going to step out of their way, let them do their thing, learn from their example, and hopefully come back strong once I better understand how this game is played, if not by the end of this game, then in future games that I am involved in.

I believe you could carry on attempting to hunt in your own style, I probably haven't commented much as I haven't seen where exactly to comment in arguments and suchlike I don't have strong reads on the people involved.

But I now do have a strong town read on you after that rage post. I guess I may have another look, but nonetheless just stopping hunting helps less that seemingly hunting badly.
(even if it's just on how people are attacking you and how that may help reads on them later in the game)

This post mitigates a lot of my concerns about you.