Mini 1468: Legends of the Hidden Temple- Game Over!

[Wisdom]

Grim.
He admitted that he thought he could challenge his partner. All those indirect/informal crap you're talking about do not apply here.
Secondly, if he wanted to note the fact he scumreads AP, he could answer to "Who you would challenge" with "Wisdom. I scumread AP too but cant challenge him so yeah" or something of this nature.
He didn't do that, he included AP as the first person that he would challenge (which on its own is strange since he has more than once shown eagerness to challenge ME, not AP), and after being called out for it, he says that "he thought he could challenge his partner". Not indirectly and this stuff you're saying, DIRECTLY.
You want to buy that? I don't.

[Grimgroove]

Not taking your word for it, I hope you understand

Does not compute.

I admit my hopes for your understanding were merely ornamental.
Does it compute now?

[Grimgroove]

Yeah, but you can't directly
Yet he answered the question "who would you challenge" with someone that he cannot challenge directly.
I could even see that as a scumslip, tbh.

If both Venmar and AP are scum, then obviously they wouldn't care about being partners since they would already be scumbuddies.

But maybe that's a stretch.

@Wisdom: The thing in bold is crucial to your argument. Do you feel it is convincing if you look at it seperately?
You correctly called me out for assuming scum doesn't pay attention to their PM's, yet here you are assuming something very similar.

[Venmar]

Secondly, if he wanted to note the fact he scumreads AP, he could answer to "Who you would challenge" with "Wisdom. I scumread AP too but cant challenge him so yeah" or something of this nature.

- You.... ok what's your problem? I bet half this playerlist didnt know you couldn't challenge your partner.

The fact you're making these retarded assumptions and PUSHING them WITHOUT a flip, is extremely scummy.

[Wisdom]

@352
Say me and you are partners, and also scumbuddies
The fact we're scumbuddies means we communicate in the scum QT, therefore we will never use the other QT.
Therefore it's not unreal for either of us to slip at some point and declare that we want to challenge each other (in a form of bussing), forgetting that we're paired.
For me it's far more unreal that someone thought he could challenge his partner.

[Wisdom]

I bet half this playerlist didnt know you couldn't challenge your partner.

Are you for real now?
Challenge goes from team to team, how the fuck do you challenge your own team?
It takes so much brain to understand that?
You want me to believe that there are people who failed to understand something this simple?

[Amrun]

Once again, I really don't care who agrees with me and I never will unless he was about to be lynched. I may change my read later; I may not. For today, I am not interested in him dying and that's that.

Amrun, why do you have this frustration about explaining your townread? You're practically saying "omg guys I just townread him okay? i dont care if you agree just stop asking me to explain!"

Because I don't think spelling it out even as specifically as I did is pro-town; in the spirit of transparentness I have explained more than I like to, but my limit has been reached. I am not at all interested in giving the scum in this game (or even future games) an exact map of how to get an early game townread out of me.

Grim, I am interested in your reads but it does not bother me if you happen to disagree with one of them. Not sure why or how this could be interpreted as aggressive but okay.

[pirate mollie]

I am avoiding you because you are evidently too magnificent a foe for the likes of me. I think avoiding you will be the best tactic for me to win this game.

Yes, I've seen some posts by mollie that gave me scumvibes. Yours didn't really catch my eye in any way.

which posts

and explain why you think they are scummy

[Amrun]

Also, wisdom, that's just not a slip. It just isn't.

[pirate mollie]

I repeated myself only once, when asking about the use of the QT's. I'll use it to my best abilities, or just hope StrangerCoug can use it better and secure a warranted town-read on me.
They seem incessant because I'm making the most of my time online. I don't see the link between "uselessness" and "persistence".
Rest assured I'm trying to determine alignment with these questions. You have your ways and I have mine. Trying to get a feel of the people and the game mechanics, while at the same time establishing my presence here.

I don't like the general ambiance in this topic

. Very long toes and very little goodwill/patience.

newsflash: I don't care

I have very little patience with newbs (although it was oddly recommended that I apply for IC status) unless I am mentoring them which is why I stay out of rome unless asked by a mod and I have zero patience or goodwill for someone who tries to dictate my play. you do not get to control the tone of this convo cos it is a 2 way street and there are 2 different people in it and we all have our ways. mafia is not all fluffy bunnies and roses if you want a site that likes that kind of shit in their mafia games I can recommend one.

so far you are being awfully defensive, petulant and yes, useless and you misrepped amrun cos she was in no way being aggressive with you. if you honestly believe that that was aggressive then you will probably get eaten alive by majiffy and I. and wis too but he is being subdued WHICH IS ANOTHER REASON I AM SCUM READING HIM. in other words amrun is like mary fucking poppins so why are you trying to take with her (with me, I actually get) and making it out like she is not?

@ elyse

were in the large mainstream game or was it hard boiled? I feel like I have seen you before but I can't remember what game.

[Wisdom]

and wis too but he is being subdued

wtf are you talking about

[pirate mollie]

and wis too but he is being subdued

wtf are you talking about

you got meek when someone pointed out that they you were being a dick

ftr, I didn't think you were but I have a different barometer. scum usually like to make themselves likeable its called tailoring your play I bet you have heard this before.

also I didn't get certain aspects of the set-up either but then I really read the set-up I prefer tl;dr versions. majiffy had to explain it to me

[Wisdom]

I don't think that I was being a dick or that I was being any different than how I'm always

And if someone did, I don't care enough

[Majiffy]

Oh, I thought you could challenge teammates? Darn it, AP is my partner.

*sob* *sob*

^
Did you miss this, Majiffy? His response was NOT "I was just listing my scumreads", it was "I thought I could challenge my teammate".
Do you still want to insist that it was not what it was?

Yes, I saw that post, Wisdom. But his original post where he said "AP & Wisdom" looked very much like he was just

listing his scumspects.

And this post is very clearly dripping with sarcasm.

I admit my hopes for your understanding were merely ornamental.
Does it compute now?

Nope. Start townreading Mollie and myself, pronto.

[Wisdom]

Sure, he was listing his scumreads, but he did think that he could challenge AP.
And if you found that post sarcastic (which it wasn't), he re-admitted it in 353

[Wisdom]

But if you are saying that it was sarcasm when he admitted he didn't know that he can't challenge his partner, then doesn't that mean that you agree that it isn't likely someone thought that for real?

[pirate mollie]

I don't think that I was being a dick or that I was being any different than how I'm always

And if someone did, I don't care enough

huh

I don't ever think you are a dick you are 1 of my favourite players and you know that. what is interesting about your response here is that I distinctly remember you apologising in a game we were in post game cos people thought that you were a dick. I think it was that pgo game. I don't remember which game I just remember the apology cos I didn't think you were being a dick in that game either.

[Wisdom]

I did in polygamist, but that was because of that uncalled for caps outrage that I did on Mutley, which was dickish

[Elyse]

@Mollie
Yeah it was that large mainstream game

[Grimgroove]

I am avoiding you because you are evidently too magnificent a foe for the likes of me. I think avoiding you will be the best tactic for me to win this game.

Yes, I've seen some posts by mollie that gave me scumvibes. Yours didn't really catch my eye in any way.

which posts

and explain why you think they are scummy

It's the posts I brought up during my round of incessant questions. Basically it's mainly related to your earlier period in the game.

Note that there will again be many questions in this thread. Even though one of their aims is that you answer them, a secondary function is that they clarify my thought process and reflect my thoughts about you.

First it started with your fluff for the first six pages or so. I thought it was scummy because it showed no commitment when it comes to moving this game forward.

eta: chill the fuck out

eta2:

cos he is my partner and I do not want to obsessively trolleytrack on him again

Your explanation of this fluff I also found scummy. You said you were waiting to interact with Majify in order to be able to proceed. You say you explained why (the quote above is what I found), but I don't find this explanation satisfactory, and here is why.

First of all, you state that you need to chat with Majify in order to avoid tunneling him. This does not make sense for several reasons, and the lack of sense makes it scummy:
- Why would you tunnel him before interacting with him? You seem to equate "getting into the game before chatting with Majify" with "trolletracking Majify". This doesn't make sense. Why does MAjify have to be your starting point?
- Obviously, getting the read of Majify was just a matter of procedure. 5 minutes was all it took. Then why make such a big deal of it before? If it was just such a short procedure, I don't see why you couldn't get started with other things in the meanwhile until you had it done.
- Why would tunneling him be bad? Considering you read him like an open book, I guess this means that if you do tunnel him, that means he must be scum. Why do you fear trolleytracking MAjify if you later claim to read him easily? The fear seems unfounded given your special connection.

What I also found scummy (now a bit less because MAjify is untroubled by it) was how you seemed to give up your ownership on your own posts and thought processes in post 155 ("cos if I townread him I will probably orient my game around him unless goes after my townreads.") It sounds like we should adress any further questions to Majify instead of to you.

And I'm not sure if it's scummy, but I don't like the attitude you are having here. Yes, I know you won't care, but that doesn't matter. It seems like all you have done so far is secure a townread from Majifyu to cruise through this topic unquestioned and act like big bad-asses, but I'll tell you right now I'm not in the least bit impressed. It could be scummy in the sence that you're maybe trying to paralyze my efforts and you take me for some easily impressionable newbie, but I will not be deterred from my cause of finding scum. If I meet you on the way I'll gladly take Majify with it.

Your macho-prattling in [pos]359[/post] was the most laughable thing I've read since my arrival at Mafiascum. Congratulations.

Where have I been defensive, awfully so?

I did consider Amrun's response as agressive, but that doesn't mean I partuvlarly care about it. It's not a misrep but an honest interpretation. Note I also did not connect any indication of alignment to it. Misreps are made with the aim of painting someone off as scummy. i didn't do such a thing.

[Grimgroove]

Nope. Start townreading Mollie and myself, pronto.

This is mainly in your hands. You've established that you are many things, but I have seen no clear indications that either of you are town.

I seem to have given off the impression I'm a push-over. Sorry for the misunderstanding, please cease any efforts that have this idea in mind.

[Amrun]

Pirate mollie, you have used the same thing to call wisdom scum that I used to call him town. (One of the things, anyway.) You are saying he is less aggressive than usual which is scummy. I was saying the opposite (without the metric of what usual is for him) and you disagreed with the reasoning. Explain that, please.

Grim, I can be, have been, and will be aggressive when and if it suits my mood and/or the game. Are you always so sensitive to aggression? Do you have evidence of this?

[Grimgroove]

Grim, I can be, have been, and will be aggressive when and if it suits my mood and/or the game.

Lol, what is up with you people? No need to take yourself so seriously. I get it, you like to roll your muscles.
I didn't mean to tell any of you how to behave, I just gave my view of how I don't really like these "I don't care what you think about me" posts. They are not very engaging.
Maybe it will grow on me, who knows.

Are you always so sensitive to aggression?

Yes, I'm a delicate little flower.

Do you have evidence of this?

Not really. But maybe Elyse can weigh in on this, as she told me I need thicker skin. I recently had a (supposedly over-)sensitive reaction when she called my contributions fluff in another game. But that's is an ongoing game, so you won't be able to get any conclusion alignment-wise based on that, if that's what you're after.

The only game I've been in that's finished was a micro-game together with Wisdom. I don't recall any major bursts of aggression there, the issue was never brought up in any case.

Come to think of it: why is this relevant?

[pirate mollie]

It's the posts I brought up during my round of incessant questions. Basically it's mainly related to your earlier period in the game.

you mean those posts where your questions were already answered by the time you got to the end of the thread? you asked questions but you never stated why you found those posts scummy.

Note that there will again be many questions in this thread. Even though one of their aims is that you answer them, a secondary function is that they clarify my thought process and reflect my thoughts about you.

First it started with your fluff for the first six pages or so. I thought it was scummy because it showed no commitment when it comes to moving this game forward.

I want you to post which posts you find scummy and explain why. you don't just get to sit back and call all of my posts until p6 scummy unless you can think of a scum motivation for doing so. fluff posts are alignment neutral unless they persist throughout the game.

here is a game where every single one of posts were "fluffy" until d2:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=25693

in fact, I think I made only 1 post with content and that was to point out that we had a missing kill and that I blocked nacho. flawless town victory. I trolled the fuck out nacho while I was looking for his partner in fact, I think the post that I outed was the only non fluff post in the game other than my guille vote.

what is weird is that you read on me should have progressed as you got caught up with the game. and it hasn't. you are still scumreading me cos of early posts. do you know who are sticky with their reads in lieu of gathering and assimilating new information? scum that is who.

Your explanation of this fluff I also found scummy. You said you were waiting to interact with Majify in order to be able to proceed. You say you explained why (the quote above is what I found), but I don't find this explanation satisfactory, and here is why.

except me saying I want to interact with majiffy is not "fluff". there is motivation behind it as in I want to get a read on him asap.

First of all, you state that you need to chat with Majify in order to avoid tunneling him. This does not make sense for several reasons, and the lack of sense makes it scummy:
- Why would you tunnel him before interacting with him? You seem to equate "getting into the game before chatting with Majify" with "trolletracking Majify". This doesn't make sense. Why does MAjify have to be your starting point?

erm, your interpretation does not make sense. it is implicit that I want to get an early read so I don't spend the whole game paranoid over him like I sometimes do. he gave me that town signal right off the fucking bat and it was beautiful cos I am fairly certain he is town. and we work well together when we are both town even though we have a tendency to fight over our reads.

- Obviously, getting the read of Majify was just a matter of procedure. 5 minutes was all it took. Then why make such a big deal of it before? If it was just such a short procedure, I don't see why you couldn't get started with other things in the meanwhile until you had it done.

I am not the one who is making a big deal over it you and wis were. I also wanted him to explain the set-up to me cos I frankly didn't understand it. the obtainment of the read took a lot less time than I thought it would.

- Why would tunneling him be bad? Considering you read him like an open book, I guess this means that if you do tunnel him, that means he must be scum. Why do you fear trolleytracking MAjify if you later claim to read him easily? The fear seems unfounded given your special connection.

did you miss the part where I said, "again"? I am guessing you did. I am just going let you work that one out on your own, by your sarcasm I am guessing you can!

What I also found scummy (now a bit less because MAjify is untroubled by it) was how you seemed to give up your ownership on your own posts and thought processes in post 155 ("cos if I townread him I will probably orient my game around him unless goes after my townreads.") It sounds like we should adress any further questions to Majify instead of to you.

how the fuck did you get

that

interpretation out of what I said? why would you ask majiffy questions that you wnt me to answer? that doesn't even make sense.

And I'm not sure if it's scummy, but I don't like the attitude you are having here. Yes, I know you won't care, but that doesn't matter. It seems like all you have done so far is secure a townread from Majifyu to cruise through this topic unquestioned and act like big bad-asses, but I'll tell you right now I'm not in the least bit impressed. It could be scummy in the sence that you're maybe trying to paralyze my efforts and you take me for some easily impressionable newbie, but I will not be deterred from my cause of finding scum. If I meet you on the way I'll gladly take Majify with it.

lol. if I thought you were some easily impressionable newb don't you think that I would be coddling you like you want me to? I don't think you are stupid, just new, so I am not going to treat you like you are stupid. is that okay?

Your macho-prattling in [pos]359[/post] was the most laughable thing I've read since my arrival at Mafiascum. Congratulations.

you know what I find laughable? that you are scumreading me cos you think I didn't show commitment by p6 and we are now on p13 and you have yet to cough up a single read. I don't think I am the one with commitment issues here. <----- that is laughable.

Where have I been defensive, awfully so?

you have been defensive in this very post, lol

I did consider Amrun's response as agressive, but that doesn't mean I partuvlarly care about it. It's not a misrep but an honest interpretation. Note I also did not connect any indication of alignment to it. Misreps are made with the aim of painting someone off as scummy. i didn't do such a thing.

well I don't know what your intentions since you have not given a read on amrun I am just giving you my honest interpretation.

[pirate mollie]

Nope. Start townreading Mollie and myself, pronto.

This is mainly in your hands. You've established that you are many things, but I have seen no clear indications that either of you are town.

I seem to have given off the impression I'm a push-ove

r. Sorry for the misunderstanding, please cease any efforts that have this idea in mind.

^ this is ridiculously overdefensive