Xenogears Mafia (Game Over)

[mastin2]

AJ Iso:

His posts look town, so he's probably scum. But seriously. Content looks town. Can't tell if he is town, but his content's enough where I'm calling him town.

[Desperado]

Spoiler: Rach is scum

Irrelevant questions that contradict prior knowledge.

I presume this is the cabd head of trust fund?

Could you explain your case on him, besides the whole thing with Venmar?

Cause though I can see how that would look scummy, the fact we have a wagon build up this fast this early before everyone has even posted kinda sets up my scumdar a tad.

I can see how that would sound ambiguous lol trying again

I meant more from Syr and not just fery that make more sense?

ye gods

Sorry about that Mollie its more confusion than anything else. This game totally exploded faster than I thought it would. Going to look at some ISOs

FTR anyone who has ever played with me knows I get suspicious of fast wagons and quick lynches.

About time you got here Nacho

Wait Andy is playing too? where is he?

grumble grumble I will take some time to get a handle on this game

Could someone let me know who the heads of the hydrae are?

Other than B n B I know that one is Mollie and Jiffy.

Self-evident questions that serve no purpose:

Could everyone please tone it down a bit it is a game not a war jeez.

I gather from that that Notty is basically an Innocent Child mod verified?

Whats with all the claiming anyways I think like half the people in the game practically have not even posted or not posted much...

Besides his reaction to Venmar's claim is there even a case on TD? Something other than oh he was scum last time please.

No scum reads. No votes. No effort to hunt scum. And if she is scum then the whole TD wagon very possibly is town (specifically @ MuffinMan):

Whether TD is scum or town I am not sure on, but I am leaning town cause that wagon hell Nacho has not even posted yet..... And a few others as well. 8 of 11 votes? Cmon guys n gals we need to examine those on his wagon duh.

Spoiler: MuffinMan is town

Vote: TiphaineDeath

I want zmuffin to answer this, not ven, what's scummy about my post?

If by "scummy", you mean "something that scum does", then I think your post is scummy because it came from you.

This should be fairly straight-forward.

If you're asking how I know you're scum from this, then it comes down to two reasons. The first is that I see no town reason to vent your frustration here, especially since his play as a PGO is valid and makes sense, and I see every reason why you as scum would think that making a big deal out of it would possibly make you seem more town because you didn't consider that it was a good move for a town PGO to make. The second is my personal belief that the way in which you said what you said was awful and fake.

Also, since that post, I don't believe you have no better place to put your vote than where it currently is for RVS reasons... You could have even voted me, and at least pretended to apply some pressure to me, but you didn't. So yep, you're scum and you need to die. This part is no longer valid as of #93, but you're still scum.

More votes on TD please. TY.

People I'm not lynching today: venmar, notscience, mac, sound of silence
People maybe town but not completely sure: beautyandthebeast, ghostlin, nickthename, trustfund

If mastin is town, this is the first game i've seen him read me incorrectly from my initial posting. but I don't really think he's town atm so that doesn't particularly matter to me.
BRO is probably scum, there was a wall somewhere on like p8 that made me think this. The next post about scum on the TD wagon and no effort to do anything about it pretty much solidified this.

The speed with which the TD wagon built up is

not

a sign that he's town, or even likely town. It's null at best, and I'm sure as fuck not going to discount his play just because his wagon built up quickly. Off the top of my head, Ghostlin should remember the shit position town got put in when the whole town thought this exact same thing on D1 of Cyclic x02 - it made for a very easy scum win. The point being; judge his play, and the play of the people voting him, not the fucking speed of the wagon.

I think someone asked me a question some pages back about why I voted TD before he answered my question. The answer is, "why the fuck not?" It was a better place to put my vote than where it currently was for RVS reasons, and I pretty much told you why I voted TD in my next post anyway, so this kind of seems like a dumb question.

I'm skimming a lot of these posts, so if I missed any questions, meh. I might go back and read this thread closely when I have time and see what else I can find in the first 20 pages, but these are my basic thoughts on the game so far.

I agree. AtE isn't a reason to lynch someone over. But I think the way in which he handled the votes was bad, and I think if he were town, he'd at least try to show that he's town rather than whine and AtE.

I also still hold that his initial post about the PGO looked really, really fake, for reasons that have been listed by several posters.

Point me to posts that gave you scum reads on nickthename, rachmarie and nhammen.

I would also like to note that BRO still isn't voting anyone, and after his claim about scum on the TD wagon, I at least think he would try get some momentum going on a scum read of his if he were actually town.

If the TD wagon dies, I'll move to BRO.

Muffin's stance on TD, and the consistency of his Bro scumhunt, are both town motivated. Unlike Venmar's useless TD tunnel, Muffin's intentions are transparent and he lays his thought process out willfully.

I have decided that all my reads are shit and I need to start over.

I'll give the reasoning behind my current reads on Mac and TFL before I do, but they may change when I properly read the game.

I've gone really, really wrong somewhere. I have the entire early TD wagon as town (or likely town). Even if TD is scum, this doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

I need to reevaluate things.

This post reads extremely genuine and scum have no reason to express this much self-doubt.

Spoiler: Mac is scum

Contrast Muffin's push with Mac's. Whereas muffin consistently expressed his thought processes and gave TD content to react to, Mac was needlessly antagonistic.

what part of venmar's claim made you rage TD cos I really can't see much wrong with what he did?

I feel that claiming PGO is bad as a pgo, the same way claiming bomb is bad even if you know there is a vig in the game.

It's tantamount to saying "I don't think I can play my role well enough to make it usefull so i'm going to go ahead and be a vanilla townie that needs to be lynched before lylo." You take a role that can be a great errr good thing, to the town, and make it a detriment. I know that it can be a horrible detriment to the town if played badly, but that's not a fucking excuse. When you're given a role, you play that role to your win condition.

It just.... it bugs me...

so what would you have done if you were given PGO?

you know there is nothing wrong with what venmar did? and in fact, your alternative solutions would have had more of a negative effect than the way venmar has played it?

VOTE: TiphaineDeath

i don't like the way you are playing so far.

we are most certainly not done with it.

stop running away.

pretty sure you are running away.

now answer the questions asked at you or be lynched. it's simple.

What kind of response is he looking to get here? He's not interested in determing TD's alignment, he's just kicking the dog while it's down.

Mac's TD push her is very reminiscent of Mac's push on monkeyman as scum in WWE mafia--it begins in #2056 and extends to #2108

Hold the motherfucking phone, hey mac, who asked me questions?

you know there is nothing wrong with what venmar did? and in fact, your alternative solutions would have had more of a negative effect than the way venmar has played it?

VOTE: TiphaineDeath

i don't like the way you are playing so far.

those are questions.

They really aren't. "You know there is nothin wrong with what Venmar did?" is not a question, it is a declaration of superiority. You might as well say "I'm right and you're wrong, why are you so stupid?"

Neither of those are questions, and you are stupid to think so. Putting a question mark on the end of something doesn't make it a question.

Fail slip dodge is fail. VOTE: Mac. Hey guys, I found an overeager scum, want to help me lynch it?

is this really fucking happening?

are you going to do anything other than cry in the corner and call everyone stupid?

Aren't you doing the same thing? What else is "is this really fucking happening?" supposed to mean other than "How stupid are you to vote me?"

It's not a mother fucking policy lynch, I didn't push a lynch on venmar, I never voted venmar, and I hate policy lynches. Remove-head-from-rectum-conf-town.

and yet you said you were "heavily tempted" to vote Venmar earlier

I. Don't. Even. All you stupid fuckers need to stop PGO claiming, either it's a bad gambit, or you are one in which case you should be playing in such a way that scum will target you and not town to get free kills instead of dumbassing. Heavily tempted to vote venmar here....

You didn't vote him, but you made this little half-step push thing, which is worse in my book.

bingo. it looks alot like you were flirting with the idea but waiting for someone else to take the initiative, TD.

I. Don't. Even. All you stupid fuckers need to stop PGO claiming, either it's a bad gambit, or you are one in which case you should be playing in such a way that scum will target you and not town to get free kills instead of dumbassing. Heavily tempted to vote venmar here....

You didn't vote him, but you made this little half-step push thing, which is worse in my book.

bingo. it looks alot like you were flirting with the idea but waiting for someone else to take the initiative, TD.

Except that's not what happened.

VOTE: Mac

what?

I can almost see Mac's neck whiplashing here. He thinks he's gotten someone to buy in to his TD misrep and he doesn't even know what to say when he realizes he misread the situation.

Spoiler: BeautyAndTheBeast is town

Majiffy consistently pushing the game forward and hunting scum:

Someone talk to me, I'm bored.

UNVOTE: TD
Got what I needed, thanks!

[8] TiphaineDeath (Venmar, zMuffinMan, nickthename, BeautyAndTheBeast, Mac, Ghostlin, Faster Than Light, Trust Fund)

+nhammen

For later.

---

199 by TF is scummy.

---

the fact we have a wagon build up this fast this early before everyone has even posted kinda sets up my scumdar a tad.

Bingo.

---

Note to self: read later when I feel like reading poorly written garbage.

Spoiler: The TD Wagon

Wow.

Vote: TiphaineDeath

Scum caught, vote away!

GO BE FREE MY LITTLE BIRDS, LYNCH HIM

We are not in RVS anymore, this is a serious vote, please lynch.

Vote: TiphaineDeath

*Note: In 41, he asks TD a question. TD does not have time to answer before this vote, as 42 was Venmar yelling to kill it with fire.

But bnb, why you no like me? </3. I didn't subtle push, I raged, there's a difference.
VOTE: ftl

What even is this shit?
VOTE: Tiphaine

*Note: Pushing Venmar until wagon was visibly not gaining traction. Hopped on counterwagon with a weak vote.

you know there is nothing wrong with what venmar did? and in fact, your alternative solutions would have had more of a negative effect than the way venmar has played it?

VOTE: TiphaineDeath

i don't like the way you are playing so far.

*Note: This is probably definitely a town vote.

3) TD is playing like a mule on crack, which seems to indicate he wants us to distract from the Ven vote by acting like someone gave him drugs. His idea of Ven not claiming seems dissonant to the Town wincon. Also, I'm getting a hate-on for notscience.

Vote: TD

*Note: Also pretty townie.

Apparently so?
Sorry Colin, I'm voting anyways.
VOTE: TD
~Sasha

I don't really buy TD's backing off with "I am tired", either. Feels like a lazy, early-game deflection.
Of course, I don't like Venmar's response to my pressure either, but like you and I said, we shouldn't judge on a claim, but on play throughout the game.

Vote: TD

-V

Muffin

, why didn't you wait for TD to answer your question before reasonlessly hopping the wagon?

I want

Nick

to explain 102 and what, exactly, his problem was with the post that merited a vote.

FTL

please explain where the reaction test in 99 was initiated, where the reaction was, and what the reaction told you. Please use

quotes.

Cabd

, what was going through your mind when you voted TD in 171? Why were you thinking he was scum? Why didn't you elaborate when you voted him? Tell me about the conversation you were having with Syryana that you felt the need to apologize for placing the vote. Did Syryana read TD as town?

FTL

: Where was Venmar's reaction that you didn't like? Also I feel like you're misrepping TD's position by saying that he's using "I am tired" to back off.

Current scum candidates: FTL, TD (for reasons described by 81 and 91)

Where are these reasons? I didn't see them. You also did not quote any posts numbered 81 or 91 in this post. Please elaborate immediately.

I mean, it could be town lashout, but I don't feel it's as likely to be town-lash as scum-lash; and either way, heaping on pressure means more emotions, which means an easier read.

So you received an emotional response, which looked scum, why?
And if you received an emotional response already, what good did you feel the vote would do,

only

in regards to pressure?

I mean, it could be town lashout, but I don't feel it's as likely to be town-lash as scum-lash; and either way, heaping on pressure means more emotions, which means an easier read.

So you received an emotional response, which looked scum, why?
And if you received an emotional response already, what good did you feel the vote would do,

only

in regards to pressure?

It looks scum because as town, merely lashing out at your wagon leaders is not really the best play. Town-TD; I feel like, would have looked to explain his reasoning instead of merely OMGUS voting.

So you expected a rational, optimal reactive play from an irrational, emotional situation?

Tell me more.

Ok let me explain this to you. When you're trying to garner an emotional reaction from someone; YOU WANT AN EMOTIONAL REACTION.

Mind you - either alignment can HAVE an emotional reaction; it's HOW they react that matters.

But if you push someone for an emotional reaction and they've got faces calm as a Hindu cow, that means that IF AND ONLY IF YOU ARE CERTAIN THEY ARE FEELING PRESSURE: They're probably scum.

Town has no reason to avoid flipping out, at least not on a primal/reactionary/emotional level. They won't think to themselves "oh god, I had better not flip out!", they just FLIP OUT.

SCUM, on the other hand, will sit back and try to calm themselves down so they don't react negatively. THEY HAVE SOMETHING TO HIDE. Thus a LACK of a reaction is a SCUM reaction. You're not looking for CALM townies. You're looking for CALM SCUM.

So

If scum are supposed to act calm

Does that mean anyone not throwing a shitstorm is scum?

If the intention is to cause a shitstorm, yes.

- The fact you think scum don't flip out or rage or have more than just calm reactions proves to me I don't think you realize what you're talking about

Hi, are you reading?

Mind you - either alignment can HAVE an emotional reaction; it's HOW they react that matters.

Apparently not. Fuck off, Venmar, I'm working.

Mollie consistently moving the game forward and triangulating among her town reads:

Let me read Rach. I think the only time I've ever read her wrong was when I was scum.

wtf both you and nacho read her wrong in the last game. mebbe you should leave rach to someone who has never mislynched her and has actually identified her scum.

@varsoon

would it be too much to ask if you would change your avvie to where it doesn't move? it keeps catching my peripheral and it makes my eyes hurt

I do realize of course that the Mollie head and the fery head are long time friends from another site, but want to be sure it is not being used as a cover for buddying.

If mollie and I figure out that each other are town then we will at turns buddy the hell out of each other and suffer from intense paranoia. It will be fun for all.

Hi Majiffy.

If I werer PGO I'd play it similarly to what Venmar is doing.

I agree that Tiphaine's reaction wasn't cool. Also think that Varsoon and MS both seem off. Nachopappa (whom I will call Bert for the most part) isn't looking very town to me atm. But, I gather he usually doesn't when he's town.

almost want to call you town for this post

you know there is nothing wrong with what venmar did? and in fact, your alternative solutions would have had more of a negative effect than the way venmar has played it?

VOTE: TiphaineDeath

i don't like the way you are playing so far.

you are scum aren't you

not liking that varsoon thing or muffin thing either

liking td, ns, venny almost wanna put silence in there too

and if you guys do not get off of td's dick I am gonna get pissed

@ venny

I love you but you are being retarded. stahp it

@Nhammen: I don't like that when I fucking explain why I read something as null, everyone throws their hats in the air and goes WAFFLES
I don't like that when I play straight-forward town, everyone's like "VARSOON SO SCUM" because I did it in like one other game somewhere.
It's not a -reaction test- "defense" when I outright GOT VENMAR TO REPLY IN A GENUINE WAY THAT LET ME READ HIM BETTER. I'm milking the interaction between him and TD for info, something other players aren't. Please note that Notscience and NachoPappa haven't engaged too much on either side and half of the player list hasn't even fucking posted a decent contribution.
IF I THINK OF SOMETHING TO WRITE AFTER MY POST, I WILL WRITE IT. THREADS WILL BE SPAMMED AT A SPEED FASTER THAN LIGHT.
As far as the reason why I thought that nickthename was voting him without saying so--I thought it was a soft counter-claim until Nick explained his vote, which made me less assured of my own. Also, I got the reaction I wanted out of Venmar, which was essentially the same waffle-accusation bullshit I'm getting from you. Engage my posts, rather than writing them off, please.

@Trust:

Don't you think it's ironic that you see me as scum, but have a vote on the same guy as me?

If anyone wants to discuss things, I'm here to do so.

@Notscience: Now that you're confirmed town, you need to play the game. I was in Open 512 with Pasche, who was Innocent Child and he gave up playing after his IC reveal. Now you don't have to convince us that you're town, so please actually contribute to the thread and catch scum. What's the worst that can happen, they waste an NK on you?

-V

you are not this dumb

Want to take a look at the interplay tween B n B and SoS

I do realize of course that the Mollie head and the fery head are long time friends from another site, but want to be sure it is not being used as a cover for buddying.

yes cos fery and I would totally fall for that. I am so glad we have you to help sort that out.

I can't tell if this bugs me or not

does rach normally do this?

i dont recall it last game

she will make odd comments which make her look incredibly scummy but to me it looked like she was trying to find busywork. mine and fery's interactions are a magnet for scum when we are both town if you are town it is best to just leave us alone and do our thing. we are rarely wrong about each other and we certainly wouldn't be so dumb as to fall for some buddying trick

Yall hydras need to sign ur shit.

no

also I am meaner in forum mafia than skype mafia

you will figure out how to tell us apart

so assuming that you gained a shred of sanity and unstuck yourself from td what else do you see? who else sticks out?

Ah

PM and Majiffy are posting at the same time

Now I get it

So, here's a question for the two of you.

What do you think of the reactions to my claiming?

they seemed mostly townish I think

what do

you

think?

also I didn't need to have mod tell me you were town

that was me and why are you asking me this dumb question

You know me. I like dumb questions. I also am weirded out by people townreading me all of a sudden.

Hey mollie, am I wrong about TD? Cuz like, if both you and ffery think i'm wrong, I probably am, 'cuz i'm usually shit day one.

I think so, yes. you also know I usually get my reads fast and early so I am not sure why you are worried. so does fery

I am so glad we are playing together again

@ td

I think you are barking up the wrong tree about mac. he has shot to the top of my town list.

I feel like you and venny's bodies have been taken over by aliens or something cos I am barely recognising either one of you

mollie what are your thoughts about Mac?

liking him a lot. will probably be working with him. what do you think about venny?

@ ns

I think a pgo hits everyone who targets them if I am not mistaken.

well this game will be.... interesting (in the sense of the old Chinese curse May your life be interesting that is).....

Whether TD is scum or town I am not sure on, but I am leaning town cause that wagon hell Nacho has not even posted yet..... And a few others as well. 8 of 11 votes? Cmon guys n gals we need to examine those on his wagon duh.

No need to get worried Mollie just I am not 100% sold that both your slot and hers are town. Given time will be better at sorting it out. And part of that would be finding out if its just hey we know each other or that you are playing buddy buddy knowing peeps would think it too blatant to be buddying.

As Jiffy and Syr post that will help too

.



Pedit the PGO kills the doc and so does the scum who tries to kill I believe but not positive on that.

wat are you talking about majiffy has been doing most of the posting up until this point.

fery this is what I mean

And this is why I hate hydras.

mebbe if you would stop posting in your scum qt you would know this.

What is this supposed to mean?

looks like an fos to me. what do you think?

I am entirely serious PM

if I take the time to answer this will actually entertain the idea that I might know what I am talking about?

rach was 1 of the first people to tell the difference between majiffy and I mean like 3 posts. majiffy was posting up a storm and I actually told him to stfu in gchat. he has been very clear about his thoughts and whom he suspects. her saying she needs to hear more from him was very bizarre and then she did it again to fery. she is disengaged with everything that is going on in the game when town rach would have stepped in a bit in the td/venny show. lastly, she feels very out of step when usually she doesn't.

gut + meta + timing

she is also slipping and sliding all over the place its like she has been dipped in baby oil or something

Actually, this is a perfect opportunity to say this. B&B, I like you guys, but seriously, can you shut up a little bit? You've been spamming pretty hard since the start of this game and It's getting on my nerves. Maybe condense your thoughts a little, wait till you have a few things to say? Thanks.

hi nick hi

let's have a chat.

every single 1 of my posts has content and a reason behind it. I think majiffy's alphabet posting was spammy and I fussed at him for it. he and I are both frequent posters especially on d1. borky probably should have said something in the sign-up thread since a lot of these players were in the last xeno game and that was high volume.

I will post what I want when I want tyvm. you can always put us on your foe list then you won't have to read our posts at all. cos right now I am milking the game for all that it is worth in order to provide the most info for my team. we will probably be nked early and then you won't have to worry about it.

fery

feryferyferyfery

I find venny's hostility weird.

Both heads bleed town and mollie's prediction that they will likely be nked early is a) likely true and b) town arrogance at its finest.

Spoiler: Aj The Epic is town

Has the best post:content ratio in the game:

Huh. Regardless, got the reaction I was looking for from Venmar, so

Unvote

UNVOTE: TD
Got what I needed, thanks!

Are we all pretending we have reaction tests going in this game?

So far, the obvious choices for the early scum list are TFL, Nick, and TD deciding to vote for Venmar because of 'stupidity'. That's a copout reason. But I don't like the wagon, especially recently with weak votes from Nick and FTL. In fact, I really think Nick's true bad vote came on his vote on Mac, not TD. 210 and 218 felt like he was trying to pull some bullshit test off and even when he wants to vote Mac, he doesn't explain his reasoning for shit. He is obligated to explain such reasoning because he's suggesting a slip/misrep and therefore needs to bring it to light instead of saying "That's not what happened" when Mac essentially agreed with his original post.

VOTE: Nick

I actually am going to say TD's reactions feel genuine. He stepped bad and is feeling bogged down, which is something I completely understand.

TFL's attack on Nhaman was bad, which was really the first time I noticed him. I don't like MS on my own policy of him reading too fast to be useful, but the worst post from them was made by Varsoon, which surprised me. Off hand, what was Varsoon's allignment in Xenoblade? I didn't ever bother to check back in on the end result (stopped reading short of d4...)

Mollie/Jiffy and other hydras:

Spoiler:

When I sleep, I don't want nightmares about waking up to 70+ pages. Every game I in this category seems to love large post games. I've played Street Racers, Posh, and Xenoblades with the majority here, I know you're capable of posting that much. So you don't have to prove you are capable of 1,000+ pages d1 to prove you can. Got it?

P-edit: And the shit of this begins. Not even going to bother.

Alright. So it was just a trolly style. Thanks.

Guessing that's Jiffy in 253 (punctuation). So, I just read the game again (when making my last post) and I can tell you that most of the votes looked like this:

Blah blah blah I'm town

Vote:TD

You know, we've got it, should use it...

SoS[1] votes BROseidon
TiphaneD[1] votes FTL
MuffinMan[1] votes NachoPappa

Notscience

[1] votes Trust Fund
AJ[1] votes

Notscience

Notscience

[2] votes

Notscience

TRUSTsasha[1] votes NachoPappa
Venmar[1] votes TiphaneD
MuffinMan[2] votes TiphaneD
NickTheName[1] votes Venmar
FTL[2] votes Venmar
NachoPappa[2] votes NachoMamma
TiphaneD[2] votes FTL
FTL unvotes Venmar
NickTheName[2] votes TiphaneD

TiphaneD[3] votes MuffinMan

B&B[1] votes TiphaneD
Mac[1] votes TiphaneD
Ghostlin[1] votes TiphaneD

FTL[3] votes TiphaneD

TiphaneD[4] votes Mac

TrustSasha[2] votes TiphaneD

NickTheName[3] votes Mac

Nhammen[1] votes FTL
B&B unvotes TiphaneD
AJ[2] votes NickTheName

Green for confirmed town (namely NS)
Red for any votes three and over.

Honestly, the only thing I notice is TD seems to flail a lot under pressure. Most of these first seem more random than anything.

Town has no reason to avoid flipping out, at least not on a primal/reactionary/emotional level. They won't think to themselves "oh god, I had better not flip out!", they just FLIP OUT.

SCUM, on the other hand, will sit back and try to calm themselves down so they don't react negatively. THEY HAVE SOMETHING TO HIDE. Thus a LACK of a reaction is a SCUM reaction. You're not looking for CALM townies. You're looking for CALM SCUM.

Not really. Someone like me doesn't want to be perceived as a person who completely flips shit all the time. I think it would be better if the majority of arguing in mafia was handled at a cold, anti-personal level but that's just me. I doubt this as a powerful scumtell, but I do use the opposite to find town... (Being genuine AtE vs fake)

I think he has nick for the same reason I did: His first vote was really bad (onto Venmar) and the one onto Mac wasn't explained immediately. Sure, with Venmar, he's simply wrong on how you play PGO (Venmar is right, you claim negative utility roles immediately... barring Miller which is just a weird role). His vote onto TD was "WTF is this shit", not strong reasoning at all... in fact, never any real reason supplied for this vote but to help a wagon that was just about to kind of die out continue on. I don't really mind his case on Mac AFTER he posts it, I simply think it should've been explained with the vote before letting it fall later down. He proceeds to do something I consider anti-town: His case justified his vote, not his vote justifying his case. Meaning he didn't look for a case until AFTER he decided to vote for Mac.

(And that's because someone wanted this earlier when I couldn't be bothered)

P-edit: Newsflash: TD wagon is dead.

I never quite understood the TD wagon. This isn't TD's scum game that I saw last game (and proceeded to get lynched for my opinion on it). He's playing completely out of sync with it. He was a subtly more opportunistic than he is here. Seeing as most of the players are returning, I don't quite understand why that wagon ever built up. Hence, I do believe B&B were right with the idea to analyze that wagon... I just wish they'd come with a more solid result. Blades was a short time ago, enough that everyone should be able to do their own meta memory check on TD to recognize that this is a completely different play-style for him.

FTL mine as well be scum. I can spoiler this sentence if need be, Muffin... Varsoons post to Nhm was awful and he's the reasonable one of that hydra.

That's his whole ISO. No post is wasted and he comments on major thread events on his own time, with consistency and conviction.

Vote: RachMarie

[Andrius]

Desperado is town.

[thezmon221]

It's on me, because I'm waiting for someone to suggest a PL on me.

TF is probably town for that reaction.

Nick is probably scum (based upon what PM said about scum acting more calm when there's a reaction test)

SoS or TD is probably scum. I don't think both are.

What's not to comprehend?

Your fucking thought process.



Please, please, please, if you're a vig kill this kid so I don't have to read his posts anymore.

I already said I was bored and decided to use it.

I was bored

I was bored

I was bored

I was bored

I was bored

I was bored

I was bored

no but seriously you're a garbage player who is not playing to win and playing because you're fucking bored?

Oh, and this is for you, NS. Thanks Andy.

AJ Iso:

His posts look town, so he's probably scum. But seriously. Content looks town. Can't tell if he is town, but his content's enough where I'm calling him town.

He's town. You can just let me tango with him.

@Despo: Nice to see you today. Thought I'd miss out on playing with you. I like your reads for 4/5 of those people. You can be town for now.

PEDIT: DAMNIT Andy! You can't keep mind sniping me.

[notscience]

Yes

Vig me

Come on

Do it

I fucking dare you to.

Okay, here's how I think.

I think nick's post is way too calm given what I did, seeing as everyone else is still making a big fucking deal about it and yet he's just like meh.

SoS's reprimand sounded fake, as did TD's. "I wonder what his motivation was but it doesn't really matter" doesn't that sound off to anyone? And TD's post was weird too.

TF gave REASONS with his reprimand and actually explained where he was coming from. I don't see scum doing that.

[mastin2]

I'm skipping Andrius, because I'm waiting on others who know him better. He looks like scum to me, but heck if I know anything about him.
Skipping B&B. Partially because they're already a townread (and an iso of them isn't likely going to decrease said townread, with the only realistic possibility being an increase), partially because I don't like reading that big of an iso. That said,

{FTL, Malakittens, nickthename}
{Ghost, Mac, NS, Silence, Tiphane, Trust, Venmar, Thezmon, Nacho, Muffin}
{AJ, Andi, BRO, Desp, Mastin, Rach, Skull}

I agree on MalaK and nick (obv) being scumreads, and pretty much every single townread except Trust (null currently; working on it) and Muffin (also null at this point, and also working on it), with a slight chance of a third. (But probs-not.)

I can advise for ya to move AJ into town (albeit admittedly fairly weakly so; I don't know AJ as well as some of these others do) and similarly for Rach (my personal read is fairly-decently-town, but again, haven't really played with her much to know for sure).

I'm thinking at this point that BROseidon might be scum, from his iso. "Why? His words look so town!" Words, yes. A good scum player can create good words. Actions, on the other hand? Actions, I think make him scum. Macscumread, nicktownread, fakeish-looking reaction to IC, SoS scumread, general reads not seeming all too original (this may just be me, though), overall posting not screaming town even though the words themselves look town. Not much, but worrisome. (Basically: any individual sentence may look town, but their sum is less than their parts.)

[thezmon221]

I think nick's post is way too calm given what I did, seeing as everyone else is still making a big fucking deal about it and yet he's just like meh.

SoS's reprimand sounded fake, as did TD's. "I wonder what his motivation was but it doesn't really matter" doesn't that sound off to anyone? And TD's post was weird too.

TF gave REASONS with his reprimand and actually explained where he was coming from. I don't see scum doing that.

DING DING DING

Here's what I've been looking for.

However, your massive backtrack is very strange. At first, and very consistently, you said you were bored. All of a sudden it was a reaction fish. Care to explain? Or is there no explanation?

As for your reactions... I agree on the nick, SoS, and TF evaluations, but not on TD. In my eyes, TD was already crumbling under pressure, so this added to the fire. However, SoS's reaction was strange in that they were rather nonchalant on the even. Also, nick looked like he was posturing under this situation.

So, NS, would you like to move your vote to a scum read, instead of on a massively useless vote? Because with that vote you sound very Jester-like, even though you're not a Jester.

I can advise for ya to move AJ into town (albeit admittedly fairly weakly so; I don't know AJ as well as some of these others do) and similarly for Rach (my personal read is fairly-decently-town, but again, haven't really played with her much to know for sure).

At this point in time I'm fairly confident, and I've played with him for the better part of 2 years.

[Desperado]

Desperado is town.

When I caught up on the four pages that spawned between finishing my reread and putting together those cases your catchup post stood out. Lack of obfuscation + transparent thought process + effort above and beyond = town.

What did you mean "no stahp, it's nhamm?" I rolled scum with him as the IC of my first newbie and his first two posts seemed in line with my experience. I'm disappointed he replaced out because I'm much less confident in my ability to read Mala.

Can you explain mactown, nhamm/malatown, and nickscum to me?

@Despo: Nice to see you today. Thought I'd miss out on playing with you. I like your reads for 4/5 of those people. You can be town for now.

I don't flake or replace unless my idiot partner forces it on my slot ( ), I just had to work all day yesterday and it took me a while to catch up on the thread this afternoon.

[Desperado]

Desperado is town.

When I caught up on the four pages that spawned between finishing my reread and putting together those cases your catchup post stood out. Lack of obfuscation + transparent thought process + effort above and beyond = town.

What did you mean "no stahp, it's nhamm?" I rolled scum with him as the IC of my first newbie and his first two posts seemed in line with my experience. I'm disappointed he replaced out because I'm much less confident in my ability to read Mala.

Can you explain mactown, nhamm/malatown, and nickscum to me?

@Despo: Nice to see you today. Thought I'd miss out on playing with you. I like your reads for 4/5 of those people. You can be town for now.

I don't flake or replace unless my idiot partner forces it on my slot ( ), I just had to work all day yesterday and it took me a while to catch up on the thread this afternoon.

[Desperado]

(my personal read is fairly-decently-town, but again, haven't really played with her much to know for sure).

I'd honestly be surprised if you could come up with two town motivated things from Rach's ISO. She's scum.

[mastin2]

Desperado's actually quite worrying me. I'm kinda used to Desp being super-active as town and having strong reads on multiple players and a very strong will. Instead, I get a singular post which is spoilered and rather weak. It's mostly quotes (info) and barely laden with the analysis I'd expect. I'll obviously wait for more from him, but right now, he's a nullish-scumread of mine. :/

FtL's iso is annoyingly hard to read, but the content present does make them a townread.

Ghostlin's iso might move Muffin into town, pending more work. Ghostlin's posts have been solid, and well-reasoned, and very solid overall, and I'm putting a lot of trust into him as a result. (A lot moreso than he'll have in me. At least, until I get into my element. If I get into my element before getting nightkilled,

everyone

will have more trust in me. )

[notscience]

thez, if you've ever seen me play you know I love doing random shit for reactions or simply because I'm bored. I'm an impulsive person who does shit like that all the time.

Being bored and wanting reactions is not mutually exclusive for me.

Why don't you think TD's reaction at the time looked fake? I understand how it added fuel to the fire, but looking at just that it seems kinda forced to me.

[thezmon221]

Why don't you think TD's reaction at the time looked fake? I understand how it added fuel to the fire, but looking at just that it seems kinda forced to me.

Considering the fact that Venmar PGO claimed, and then he got a lot of scrutiny for his reaction, I'd expect a scum-TD to look more like nick's reaction because he wants pressure off of him. He reacted very similarly to the Venmar claim as he did to yours, which is what leads me to believe it is more natural. He seems like a more abrasive person to me.

thez, if you've ever seen me play you know I love doing random shit for reactions or simply because I'm bored. I'm an impulsive person who does shit like that all the time.

But come on, you couldn't have shown restraint in this instance?

[notscience]

Okay, I can see that.

And me and restraint don't particularly get along well. I probably should have showed more, but I can't really do anything about that now.

[nickthename]

Because I'm

not

living up to what I should be, and I feel horrible for it.

Dude, you're way, way too full of yourself. Get over it, and you won't feel horrible about yourself. Other than that, I don't really see anything to comment about here, except

If you're town, you can trust me to be town.

this comment sticks out to me, but I can't decide if it's scummy or towny atm.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First off, TD, me, and BRO, that's 3 people. I would call three people disagreeing with your read reason enough to explain your reasoning, no? What do you have against him explaining his read?

See, what happens when you go ahead and interject like that is that you don't understand. I didn't say it was bad to question the reasoning. I said it's not controversial. Something controversial would be me saying notscience is scum, even though he's an Innocent Child, and then providing a more than adequate case which would display how he has been playing in a scummy matter.

So we define controversial differently. Settled.

Case on Mac.

you know there is nothing wrong with what venmar did? and in fact, your alternative solutions would have had more of a negative effect than the way venmar has played it?

VOTE: TiphaineDeath

i don't like the way you are playing so far.

His initial reason for getting on the wagon is pretty insubstantial

Why him specifically? Most of the people on the wagon initially jumped on because of this very same thing.

This is correct, and I consider it natural to look for scum on the TD wagon, especially considering how fast it grew. This quote here is significant, because later he claims to have already posted his reason for being on the wagon. This is that reason.

we are most certainly not done with it.

stop running away.

pretty sure you are running away.
now answer the questions asked at you or be lynched. it's simple.

And yet he follows up pushing the wagon without really posting his own reason.
I'm not posting the whole iso, but suffice to say up till 208 he doesn't give a reason for being on the wagon, despite pushing it heavily.

Post 138 disagrees.

I meant that between the previous post I commented on (138) and 208 he doesn't give a reason. I was agnowledging that he had aditional posts between 138 and 208, but none giving any other reason for being on the wagon.

It's not a mother fucking policy lynch, I didn't push a lynch on venmar, I never voted venmar, and I hate policy lynches. Remove-head-from-rectum-conf-town.

and yet you said you were "heavily tempted" to vote Venmar earlier

But TD explained in his very next post that he only said that out of frustration, and never intended to actually vote him. Mac seems to have ignored that post entirely.

So what you're telling me... is that he's wrong for not reading a backtrack? I'd understand if this was like, y'know, something less scummy. But TD backtracked the hell out of that post. He went all guns blazing at Venmar, only to later say, "Oh, I never REALLY wanted to vote him!"

...Remind me why it's scummy to assume such behavior?

I agree with TD's backtracking was fairly scummy, but in Mac's mind, TD can't both be scummy for, as Mac said, soft-FOSing Ven and waiting for more traction, and ALSO scummy for quickly backing off when someone else voted Ven. From reading Mac's posts, it seems the former, that Mac didn't read post 49 and thought that TD was soft pushing Ven waiting for more votes to jump on. However, when I corrected this to him, he stated:

ok. i was wrong. remind me why that makes me scum?

I've justified my place on this wagon already.

As I stated earlier, his only posted justification was in 138 (cited above) where he says only that he doesn't like the way TD has been playing so far (meaning posts before 138).

So, at 245, he's on a large wagon, which grew extremely quickly, and has just had one of his primary reasons for being on the wagon reveled to be incorrect. His reaction is to stay on the wagon, and not bother to examine the people on it at all? This isn't town motivated at all.

[mastin2]

(Obviously, I was writing 710 before Desp made additional posts. )

I'd honestly be surprised if you could come up with two town motivated things from Rach's ISO. She's scum.

Challenge accepted.

Spoiler: Rachtown

No fair you guys n gals I did not get to RVS

Technically should be null, but I read this comment as being town. 'Specially with the followthrough near the end of the post.

Want to take a look at the interplay tween B n B and SoS
I do realize of course that the Mollie head and the fery head are long time friends from another site, but want to be sure it is not being used as a cover for buddying.

Analysis on B&B and SoS. You could argue "trying to create paranoia about their interactions", but this looks a lot more like what I'm doing right now. Seeing stuff which might be important and trying to filter it.

peeps with votes on Venmar need to like remove them for a bit, the claim will sort itself out soon enough.

You can say that this is leaving her options open, but I read it as having a Venmar townread.

All from her first post.

Besides his reaction to Venmar's claim is there even a case on TD? Something other than oh he was scum last time please.

You can argue (similarly to Venmar) that she's defending easy mislynches for cheap towncred, but again, I say that this reads as legitimate scumhunting. Especially with the followthrough.

Could you explain your case on him, besides the whole thing with Venmar?

Cause though I can see how that would look scummy, the fact we have a wagon build up this fast this early before everyone has even posted kinda sets up my scumdar a tad.

Then there's this.

well this game will be.... interesting (in the sense of the old Chinese curse May your life be interesting that is).....

Whether TD is scum or town I am not sure on, but I am leaning town cause that wagon hell Nacho has not even posted yet..... And a few others as well. 8 of 11 votes? Cmon guys n gals we need to examine those on his wagon duh.

No need to get worried Mollie just I am not 100% sold that both your slot and hers are town. Given time will be better at sorting it out. And part of that would be finding out if its just hey we know each other or that you are playing buddy buddy knowing peeps would think it too blatant to be buddying. As Jiffy and Syr post that will help too.

As a start, she actually

defines

what she means by "interesting"! (The word interesting being left undefined being a minor scumtell.) Again she follows through on the TD situation, and then goes stream of consciousness in her posting in a very natural way that looks like it shows a town thought. Plus, it gives followthrough on the B&B/SoS thing she had in her first post.

Is she solidly town? No. Especially not under specific circumstances. Is she decently town? Yes. A bad lynch for today.

[Desperado]

That's a solid townRach case, if you take all of the points individually. But when you combine them all with the fact that she isn't scumhunting and she isn't using her vote to pressure anyone, the scum-motivated possibilities you provided become much more likely.

[Venmar]

I feel like most of the reasons for Rach-Town by Mastin in #715 are forced and untrue, I don't think he actually believes in most of those especially since he says things like " you could argue " or " technically ".

[mastin2]

Mac iso:
Some specific posts may be a bit concerning, but overall, there's strong town posting present and I really don't think this is scuMac.

Malakittens iso:
She's not giving me warm fuzzy feelings. At all. This doesn't seem like the town-her that I've come to expect, like, at all. So again, bit of a scumread.

She replaced nhammen, who is next on my iso list. There's not much to really see, there. I can't really have anything definitive, other than a bit of a gut scumread with his overall approach.

Skull iso is basically empty, so nothing there at all. At this point with me not really having any really strong townreads, might be a scumread just by virtue of being a null-read.

[Andrius]

That's a solid townRach case, if you take all of the points individually. But when you combine them all with the fact that she isn't scumhunting and she isn't using her vote to pressure anyone, the scum-motivated possibilities you provided become much more likely.

This.

[mastin2]

That's a solid townRach case, if you take all of the points individually.

Which is

exactly

what

you asked me to do

. You asked for specific town-motivated things; I gave specific town-motivated things.

If you want the overall stance, I still have her as town, in a similar manner to how I'm town. (Granted, this is something specific to me, so if for some idiotic reason you're not townreading me, then I can see why you wouldn't be townreading her. ) Her posts just have that feeling to them. That she's not exactly in the strongest position, but that she's trying to figure things out regardless. Again, I don't have much meta on her, so I don't know if it's possible she can fake it, but I don't see the scum. I see town, working things out weakly but still working things out.

[Desperado]

Some specific posts may be a bit concerning, but overall, there's strong town posting present and I really don't think this is scuMac.

Which posts? You flatly said all of my reads were weak, can you talk about the mac read more specifically and how it fits into your read?

[mastin2]

I feel like most of the reasons for Rach-Town by Mastin in #715 are forced and untrue, I don't think he actually believes in most of those especially since he says things like " you could argue " or " technically ".

Also worth noting: I'm saying "you could argue" and "technically"

for things about her being null or scum

. When it comes to my

actual

not-technically and not-you-could-arguely stance, that's where you see me saying she's town.

[Desperado]

That's a solid townRach case, if you take all of the points individually.

Which is

exactly

what

you asked me to do

. You asked for specific town-motivated things; I gave specific town-motivated things.

If you want the overall stance, I still have her as town, in a similar manner to how I'm town. (Granted, this is something specific to me, so if for some idiotic reason you're not townreading me, then I can see why you wouldn't be townreading her. ) Her posts just have that feeling to them. That she's not exactly in the strongest position, but that she's trying to figure things out regardless. Again, I don't have much meta on her, so I don't know if it's possible she can fake it, but I don't see the scum. I see town, working things out weakly but still working things out.

@ your bold: The context matters though. You provided examples of her doing something that is generally town motivated, when the specific circumstances (which you've already alluded to yourself) point to a different conclusion.

And I wouldn't equate your play with her's at all.

[mastin2]

Which posts? You flatly said all of my reads were weak, can you talk about the mac read more specifically and how it fits into your read?

168 is a bit concerning, as is 224. 245 isn't as bad and can also be town, but it can also be along a similar vein. 261 also makes me a bit nervous, but again can be scumhunting.

That's it. The rest I see as town. Those few posts to give doubt aren't enough to overcome the overall picture. My memory of a scuMac might not be as good as with others, but this. just. doesn't. feel. like. what I remember. to be. scuMac. It feels like his town self. Combined with the town posting, and I really don't get the scumread on him.