Xenogears Mafia (Game Over)

[Trust Fund]

Even I would have never said "HEY GUISE MY PARTNER IS ACTING LIKE SCUM".

No, you'd just claim alien instead~

Shut up.

In good taste, I jest, mala. This is gonna be your version of mara's hard boiled, I get it. Anyways, you should vote mastin with me.

[Sound of Silence]

Nacho, your thoughts on Mastin and Andy?

[Malakittens]

Even I would have never said "HEY GUISE MY PARTNER IS ACTING LIKE SCUM".

No, you'd just claim alien instead~

Shut up.

In good taste, I jest, mala. This is gonna be your version of mara's hard boiled, I get it. Anyways, you should vote mastin with me.

No really keep quiet about it. You can jest all you want, but I don't want to be joked about it because I'm

still

pissed at you for something. I think I have a right to be pissed in regards to it. People can use that game against me if they want - I don't care. Once this game ends - I'll let you know what I'm talking about, kay? by then I'll be not pissed at you enough to bring it up.

No, I want FTL dead currently.

[mastin2]

The ceremony was nice and short, so I've got time for one post.

If FTL is for sure scum then Mastin is probably a partner.

Hole number one: I'm not scum. I'm anti-scum, in fact.

Hole number two: FTL is almost certainly town.

Have I mentioned that this is a scum-Mala?

I also find it odd how many people didn't comment on my interaction with Ghostlin besides Mac.

Because Ghostlin is town and you are not town. Simple.

Where you say you don't have much. So now I have to ask, why are you pushing me so hard? What changed between 692 and 928 that caused you to be so sure i'm scum, and why haven't you mentioned it anywhere?

Your continued posting, me re-evaluating and realizing you were less town than I originally thought and more scum (opposite of zMuffinMan), basically, everything.

mastin wat do you think of nacho? you left him entirely off of your list.

I left Nacho and Venmar of because ~reasons~. That's all you're getting.

Mind quoting where he said 'five scum'? I just read the opening post again and could not find any mention.

Coulda sworn it was somewhere. If not here and if not in the signup thread then in Xenoblade. I recall him mentioning the number of scum when he announced it single-faction, and there were only three places he's done that. Could be wrong, of course, but I really seem to remember it.

That said, even if there isn't an announcement, that's the number we have. 21 players is too small for 6 scum and too large for 4 scum.

Mastin, are you sure you didn't receive a scum role PM?

Quite. Woulda been much easier this game if I had, but no. (I actually think I'm more comfortable playing as scum right now than I am as town. 2013 has been a very good scum-year for me.) I received the anti-scum-PM.

[Desperado]

I really dislike meta as an argument, but I had a look over that game anyway and see distinct differences in the way Mac approched the push on monkeyman in that game and the way Mac has been playing here. For example, in that game you get confident statements like "today we lynch monkey chaps", "monkey votes please. he is today's lynch", "it's blatantly obvious that you were feigning stupidity" - I could go on and on, but what I'm saying here are there are a lot of statements that reek of confidence in that push. In this game, however, Mac has been more inquisitive, less confident, etc etc. This is all stuff I mentioned earlier in this wall (in my response to nick), but I feel it's even more apparent now that you've linked his scum meta. So uh, yeah.

I acknowledge that there are also similarities between that game and this one, kinda... But they don't point to Mac being scum IMO.

I see what you're saying about the confidence in his push, but I also took his "TD you're running away" comments to be a form of taunting and akin to the examples you quoted here. I think my only other competed game with mac was RW--he and mollie hydra'd a townslot and we had a huge brush up D1, but then they got killed N2. Do you have additional experience with him?

Why is consistency town-motivated? Also, in the second quote of his you've posted, what is the town-motivation of stating theory that is wrong (his part about wagon-speed being null is just outright wrong).

Consistency betrays earnestness which I find is difficult for scum to fake. It also makes the progression of his read transparent.

The second question is pretty loaded. What makes wagon speed alignment indicative?

What kind of consistency are you talking about here, desp?

A good example is Muffin's BRO read. In 505 he mentions that BRO looked scummy for calling out the TD wagon but not following up on his suspicion, in 508 he builds on that suspicion and makes his stance clear by saying he would vote him if the TD wagon stalled, and finally in 879 he continues his scumhunt, but in a more delicate way that shows his 603 ("All my reads are shit and I need to start over") was genuine and not just hot air.

how can you be so sure. every game I have been in with innocent child the scum make an effort to kill the innocent child (or in the case of Less Pressure--Innocent children).


I have not given a large list of reads yet because oh duh 36 friggen pages with some peeps not yet talking or not talking much....

On top of that had some modly things to do.

And yeah my knee still hurts.

BTW I will get on this game a lot more after I rest my knee and we take Lucky to the vet today. He has been throwing up a lot and I am worried about him.

yes Z dude is the zmon one I call the other one muffin to keep them straight. Also call notscience Notty so it does not get confused with NS who is my fiance.

Var you and MS really need to get it together more its making extremely difficult to figure out your slot.

more later dudes and dudettes

We need to lynch Rach today. Not only will the entire TD wagon be cleared, but we'll also know that FTL is definitely scum. The nick and mastin wagons need to go away.

[Desperado]

I really dislike meta as an argument, but I had a look over that game anyway and see distinct differences in the way Mac approched the push on monkeyman in that game and the way Mac has been playing here. For example, in that game you get confident statements like "today we lynch monkey chaps", "monkey votes please. he is today's lynch", "it's blatantly obvious that you were feigning stupidity" - I could go on and on, but what I'm saying here are there are a lot of statements that reek of confidence in that push. In this game, however, Mac has been more inquisitive, less confident, etc etc. This is all stuff I mentioned earlier in this wall (in my response to nick), but I feel it's even more apparent now that you've linked his scum meta. So uh, yeah.

I acknowledge that there are also similarities between that game and this one, kinda... But they don't point to Mac being scum IMO.

I see what you're saying about the confidence in his push, but I also took his "TD you're running away" comments to be a form of taunting and akin to the examples you quoted here. I think my only other competed game with mac was RW--he and mollie hydra'd a townslot and we had a huge brush up D1, but then they got killed N2. Do you have additional experience with him?

Why is consistency town-motivated? Also, in the second quote of his you've posted, what is the town-motivation of stating theory that is wrong (his part about wagon-speed being null is just outright wrong).

Consistency betrays earnestness which I find is difficult for scum to fake. It also makes the progression of his read transparent.

The second question is pretty loaded. What makes wagon speed alignment indicative?

What kind of consistency are you talking about here, desp?

A good example is Muffin's BRO read. In 505 he mentions that BRO looked scummy for calling out the TD wagon but not following up on his suspicion, in 508 he builds on that suspicion and makes his stance clear by saying he would vote him if the TD wagon stalled, and finally in 879 he continues his scumhunt, but in a more delicate way that shows his 603 ("All my reads are shit and I need to start over") was genuine and not just hot air.

how can you be so sure. every game I have been in with innocent child the scum make an effort to kill the innocent child (or in the case of Less Pressure--Innocent children).


I have not given a large list of reads yet because oh duh 36 friggen pages with some peeps not yet talking or not talking much....

On top of that had some modly things to do.

And yeah my knee still hurts.

BTW I will get on this game a lot more after I rest my knee and we take Lucky to the vet today. He has been throwing up a lot and I am worried about him.

yes Z dude is the zmon one I call the other one muffin to keep them straight. Also call notscience Notty so it does not get confused with NS who is my fiance.

Var you and MS really need to get it together more its making extremely difficult to figure out your slot.

more later dudes and dudettes

We need to lynch Rach today. Not only will the entire TD wagon be cleared, but we'll also know that FTL is definitely scum. The nick and mastin wagons need to go away.

[Trust Fund]

I recall him mentioning the number of scum when he announced it single-faction, and there were only three places he's done that. Could be wrong, of course, but I really seem to remember it.

Quote it and I might unvote you. I looked.

[Trust Fund]

That said, even if there isn't an announcement, that's the number we have. 21 players is too small for 6 scum and too large for 4 scum.

Also this is wrong because you have no idea of power roles; could easily make it OP or superweak in comparison.

[Trust Fund]

Not only will the entire TD wagon be cleared

Why would that be the case in the event of a rach scumflip?

[Desperado]

On Desperado, well, consider him almost-interchangeable with Andrius. Standing alone, he's a stronger scumread, though the super-sekrit theory being true would make him a weaker scumread than Andy. He's also close to null because I'm seeing bits which could be the town-Desp. I'm still seeing a lot which suggests scum, but he's definitely in the weaker half.

I feel like you're overstating your experience with me. What games did you use to build your town-Desp meta and what aren't you seeing here?

And can you do this exercise for Mala and Mac as well? All we're getting from you is "I can't explain it, but this just. isn't. scuMac" and or "I can't explain it, but Mala just seems...

different

from her town-self."

[Desperado]

Whether TD is scum or town I am not sure on, but I am leaning town cause that wagon hell Nacho has not even posted yet..... And a few others as well. 8 of 11 votes? Cmon guys n gals we need to examine those on his wagon duh.

[Desperado]

[8] TiphaineDeath (Venmar, zMuffinMan, nickthename, BeautyAndTheBeast, Mac, Ghostlin, Faster Than Light, Trust Fund)

I think I'll rephrase: everyone minus FTL would be cleared. And besides mac, which I'm losing confidence in with every townread who defends him, I don't have any problem with those other 7 names.

[Trust Fund]

Whether TD is scum or town I am not sure on, but I am leaning town cause that wagon hell Nacho has not even posted yet..... And a few others as well. 8 of 11 votes? Cmon guys n gals we need to examine those on his wagon duh.

[8] TiphaineDeath (Venmar, zMuffinMan, nickthename, BeautyAndTheBeast, Mac, Ghostlin, Faster Than Light, Trust Fund)

I think I'll rephrase: everyone minus FTL would be cleared. And besides mac, which I'm losing confidence in with every townread who defends him, I don't have any problem with those other 7 names.

Lolmmkay, {mastin, rach} is great too. Anyone who is townreading nacho, why? He hasn't done much yet, he's squarely null for me.

[thezmon221]

And you're modding a game where I flipped scum, brah.

First and last time I am warning about this. This ruins games. Stop.

Got it.

Hole number two: FTL is almost certainly town.

Do tell.

That said, even if there isn't an announcement, that's the number we have. 21 players is too small for 6 scum and too large for 4 scum.

I'd think 6 isn't a terrible number. Even if it was an SK or something.

[Sound of Silence]

Not townreading Nacho atm.

[thezmon221]

We need to lynch Rach today. Not only will the entire TD wagon be cleared, but we'll also know that FTL is definitely scum. The nick and mastin wagons need to go away.

I'd be okay with that lynch too. But nick is a bigger wagon and more support has been garnered for it.

Lolmmkay, {mastin, rach} is great too. Anyone who is townreading nacho, why? He hasn't done much yet, he's squarely null for me.

That's honestly why I'm scumreading him (albeit null). From my experience, he's more often scum when he lurks. Don't think I've seen a lurky nacho town yet.

[Desperado]

I'd be okay with that lynch too. But nick is a bigger wagon and more support has been garnered for it.

I really don't think the nick wagon is going to go much further. On the other hand, I'm fairly certain there are 5-6 votes for Rach (me, you, nacho, andrius, muffin, mollie) + others who haven't taken a stance yet. And if the Rach wagon stalls you can always go back.

[thezmon221]

If the nick wagon shows stalling, then I'll consider the switch. But for now, my vote will remain on nick.

However, if there is a display of interest in a Rach lynch by many people not on the wagon, I suppose that'll convince me to move as well.

[notscience]

The nick wagon needs to not stall, because he's scum.

[nickthename]

{Mac, Mastin} Are my only lynches for today at the moment. Rereading Rach now, I've been letting myself be pre-occupied with less lurky players, so I haven't formed a whole lot of an opinion on her yet.

[Desperado]

Is he scummier than Rach though? I really don't think so.

[Desperado]

Spoiler: Mollie's nick case

Town-leaning

:

Malakittens

- I've already talked about this, but her entering the thread looks towny.

zMuffin

- Feels authentic, although I'm still waiting on his new reads.

thezmon

- Arguing against him feels like arguing with a thoughtful townie, although I disagree with some of his reads

BROseiden

- I like his notes regarding ghostlin, a player most people seem to have overlooked. His liar tell thing seems dumb, but it also seems town.

I love lists.

remind me again why mala's entrance was town? I thought it was very bad and was starting to scum read her for it but she is looking better and majiffy getting under skin feels like it is coming more from frustrated townie than a scummy act.

so muffin looks authentic and that is why you have him as town? can you expand on that?

thez read is decent

bro read looks vaguely like grooming an unconfident townie.

Null

:

Rach

- She's right up there with zMuffin as far as time since we last heard from her, and her play before didn't really give me much of an opinion on her.

Skull

- Nothing to see here

Nacho

- Not contributing much, but nacho never contributes much. Until something serious that he is forced to react to, I doubt I'll get much of a read here.

Andrius

- His scumread on me feels forced, but his read of the game feels towny. Dunno, really.

Ghostlin

-Yet to see very much from him. His vote on Mala is dumb, but it doesn't really pop out is scum to me. I'd like some reads from him.

TD

- His emotions seem legitimate, but I'm not sure I'm a fan of how quiet he's been lately.

Venmar

- Who knows? Not me.

Those other 2 hydras

- Too hard to read for anything real D1, methinks.
Everyone else I forgot.

if nicky flips scum then andy is most assuredly is his partner. scum always always always put at least 1 partner dead in the middle and hey! I was scum reading andy anyways so

the nacho never contributes much is a bunch of crap and untrue and there should more peeps than just me who will point this out.

nothing to say about venny's claim or play? lol hedge.

Scum-leaning:-

B&B

- The harass of Mala doesn't look towny. That said, the hydra dissonance is strong with this one, and i'm having a hard time even figuring out what they believe. Also, sign your posts, seriously, it's not hard. Can yall like, talk to eachother and agree on reads or something?

FTL

- Have these 2 ever played in a hydra before? Seriously, you guys are harder to figure out then B&B, and not in a good way. MS is barely even legible, and all his question seem completely random and pointless. I see a tiny bit of scummieness poking through from Varsoon in posts like this:
VOTE: FTL
I don't get the feeling they are putting any effort at all into working together, making it hard to get a read. Hopefully they'll eventually feel enough preassure to do it, and then I can be more definitive in my read.

Mastin

- Is dumb and doesn't make much sense. His read on me also looks pretty forced, but since he doesn't really bother to back it up, it's hard to tell. It worries me that he doesn't really do any analysis on the TD wagon, which seems like something someone who considers themself to be as analytical as Mastin seems to think he is would do.

Mac

- Reasons are in my iso. Scum.

reads are bad bad bad, and if I had a go at it I would say that he is either bussing ftl (it is around that time) and that (sadly) mastin might be scum (again he puts a scummate in the middle). mastin is also a very good player and 1 of the biggest mistakes is that they will claim a skill beyond their level of experience and scumhunting mastin falls into that category (if mastin is indeed scum). while nicky is being incredibly elegant about it reads like a pile of weaksauce.

wrt the scumread on our slot, none of those are scumtells. majiffy pushes people for reactions that is just how he is. he goes overboard cos he does not always pick up on social cues of when he should stop. I already explained we give independent reads on d1 and then fight about them in the night round and their are players here who are familiar enough with us to know that. I have reigned him in a bit and I now have him on a tight leash which is pretty much what I had to do in xeno1. his d1 reads sucked during that game but he was really hitting it on d2, majiffy is the type of player who does much better with flips and info to work with.

I wanna see a nicky flip cos I am really feeling it that he is scum in this game and I think it will provide a whole lot of info. his case on mac looks like scum leaping all over an inconsistency when town can sometimes be inconsistent with their thoughts too. his vote on ftl looks like he is either bussing or being opportunistic.

VOTE: nicky

gonna type up a full list of my reads in a minute.

mollie, I feel like your nick case is more succinctly summed up as "I disagree with his reads" and not "he has done scummy things x, y, and z." I think my Rach case is better, and you also think she's scummy--can we do Rach today please? I think her flip will be just as informative as nick's would be, with the added bonus that she's actually been doing scummy things all game, while nick's content and engagement with the thread has him in my townpile.

[nickthename]

I don't like how Rach asks questions and doesn't comment at all on the answers, but it's also possible her inactivity is due to thread speed or irl issues. She claimed to be going to post some reads when she got back, and I'm in no real hurry to wagon, so I'll wait on those.

[Malakittens]

Temptation to claim is high, but I was banned

for it before, so I dunno.
Probably not a safe move to make anymore. :/

-V

This is a flat out lie. You were banned for making a trust tell. You were modkilled in a previous open game for posting in scum QT at night after you were lynched.

Unless ofc I'm missing something here you weren't banned for claiming.

If I am mistaken please do link the game and give me the post number.

(If some ungodly reason it's still ongoing don't then and wait until it finishes)

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho, your thoughts on Mastin and Andy?

both town but i'm not as excited about mastin