Mini 1489 - VisCon: Murder at Wingate Mansion [Game Over]

[FakeGod]

VoteCount 1.4

SXTLHGaiden [4]: Empire, Llamarble, Desperado, Tammy
PeaceBringer [1]: The Purple Shoe
Llamarble [1]: Elleran
Elleran [1]: SXTLHGaiden
Ms Marangal [2]: Generic, TheGarantula
Generic [3]: Ms Marangal, PeaceBringer, Nachomamma8

Not Voting [1] - Shadoweh

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch

.

Deadline is August 30, 2013, at 11:00 AM PST.
Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2013-08-30 13:00:00)

[PeaceBringer]

Liking tammy though (not in that way, I'm a married man).
Tammy, what are your early thoughts?

Shadoweh and gargantua are leaning town.

Peacebringer might be scum.

I'm looking forward to when empire gets a chance to post so I can solidify my read there, but he might be town.

My biggest thoughts right now though are that I want you and Mara to take a break from your slap fight. It would be one thing if it were based on in thread posts, but its on how you guys expect for each other to behave. That's fine for a little bit, but it should end now. Neither of you are going to convince anyone based on what you're doing now. It's at the point where it's causing a distraction and making it hard to get a read on either of you. So it would be super awesome if you took a break from one another and looked at other things.

Is the shadow read meta-based?

Peace's Generic questioning looked really town to me, what's got you leaning scum there?

Yeah, shadow feels more like she did in the wire and in yoloville where we were all town, but I should be able to get a better feel as the game progresses.

Well, I'm still a bit suspicious about peace based on bald eagle replacing out. He's still active on site and signing up for games. He was scum reading nacho and replaced out after being questioned on his reads. I'm worried about that. I know he's new and could get intimidated either way, but it seems like an odd thing so early. And peace came in and immediately latched onto generic and didn't say anything about anyone else. If generic is scum, I could see that from a partner trying to make sure they were on the right side of the argument. Generic has reacted to peace a bit more calmly than he's reacted to some, and if generic is scum I can see that interaction as partnership based. This I'm going off of the way generic treated my suspicions of him in the red wedding as opposed to others. If generic isn't scum then this falls apart some, but I'm still concerned about the replace out thing.

I latched on cause what I saw reading on the game. The prior part is part and parcel to games here, at least it used to be. Nature of replacing. Everyone else I am feeling and more interest in seeing where votes go and seeing what the claims are. I think Generic needs to claim. I believe he is being overly defensive and reactive for the circumstances.

[FakeGod]

Bert replaces Elleran.

[Bert]

Vote: Generic

[PeaceBringer]

we look to be getting a good dual run up now with generic and gaiden...
welcome bert...

[TheGarantula]

UNVOTE: Ms Marangal

[Nachomamma8]

There is a simple reason I can't reference colo games, beyond you signing up to the site... I can't access it. Have applied for a password reset and nothing. So she has free reign to say what she likes there.

I'll sign up for the site if you give me a link.

I think it shouldn't be their sole focus and I think it should be tabled.

This is all good and well but it isn't really something that often happens in a protown way.

there's no attempt to mediate or develop the situation, Gaiden just pops in at the end, yells at Generic for AtEing (why? He's having an emotional response, not alignment indicative either way in this scenario) and then baiting him to self-vote. + we still don't know his read on either of them.

Gaiden yelled at him for AtEing because that's not really useful to town in any way whatsoever. He told him to step up his game in town and aimed to antagonize him a bit by telling him to step it up. I actually liked that quite a bit!

Also, can people please stop using hypocrisy as a scumtell?

I know, I know. I'm ashamed.

Why didn't you ask me why I wanted the fight to end? Why did you just tell me what you think I should be thinking instead of seeing where I'm coming from?

I was on the offensive last night, just in case you couldn't tell. I'm pretty glad I did, though; I don't think I would've caught that you were actually doing this from a pro-town perspective as opposed from the "people are posting too much i'm not reading what they're saying" I see so much.

I believe he is being overly defensive and reactive for the circumstances.

I agree. Don't really think he needs to claim though.

[Ms Marangal]

There is a simple reason I can't reference colo games, beyond you signing up to the site... I can't access it. Have applied for a password reset and nothing. So she has free reign to say what she likes there.
But she calls behaviour of mine scummy throughout every game, so it's like me calling you a lady on e a game nacho and eventually you have a sex change and I can go 'told you he was a lady, I called it'. So yes, even when town she has made at least one push on done thing I've done calling it scummy.

I was unaware of this, though that isn't true.

Ren's werewolf game, I was a one-shot friendly Neighbor and I chose you, over everyone else as my one person who I trusted my alignment to. We were both town there.

I Followed your lead in Sui's game. We were also both town there.

In Nishi's Fap note mafia, I thought you were town. You were 3p Poisoner, I was JoAT

The only one you could argue was my first game on that site with you and my entire attack on you there was OMGUS for the most part.


and all this AtE behavior, and all this "Nacho and Mara are going to be fucked when I get lynched" coming from you is very strange.


Tammy, I brought up points against Generic. What do you think of those points?

RE: desperado, I think he might be town this game? I'm unsure, and the fact that he's willing to put Generic in the town block and not himself is pretty townish

Desperado, no.

Generic isn't town


@Nacho: http://coloholics.ca/

[PeaceBringer]

I believe he is being overly defensive and reactive for the circumstances.

I agree. Don't really think he needs to claim though.[/quote]
then I don't understand why you are voting him and pointing digits at him. Ultimately wagons form to push to claiming point.

[Nachomamma8]

Registered. Where is the mafia?

[Nachomamma8]

Ultimately wagons form to push to claiming point.

That's not why I push.

[Ms Marangal]

Mafioso Mansion in the fun and games section

[PeaceBringer]

Ultimately wagons form to push to claiming point.

That's not why I push.

alrighty then...
that's what she said...

[Bert]

If its gonna be me who is lynched through this nacho, can you promise me something? When I flip town revisit lynching mara.

Cos her whole arguement falls on its arse when I flip town.

But put the vote down, mara and nacho are screwed when I flip town, you guys need to just not let them weasel out of it with excuses.

Your defences need to improve nacho, not your attacks. Cos I'm welcoming the lynch, it's your scumminess that will need covering after my reveal.

But you and mara are scum, so you had better hope you can work that magic of convincing the town it was all my fault (cos I doubt you will ever hold you hand up and admit a mistake, even if it wasnt deliberate and tactical) as I am still waiting in votes for me here.

OK I just read through the Generic-Mara tit for tat. Anywho, it's stuff like this that makes me want to keep my vote on Generic. You're not putting up enough of a fight after people are going after you, and so....

I called Tammy suspicious for attempting to shut down the fight between you and Marangal because this fight of yours have made the game infinitely more interesting.

Yes, Tammy is sooooo suspicious for wanting a fight that has become unproductive to end. It's just so horrible of me to want them to interact with and talk about other people that isn't just rooted in their bickerfests so that town can get a better read on them and then maybe be able to see if there's something in that fight that's worthwhile.

Why didn't you ask me why I wanted the fight to end?

Why did you just tell me what you think I should be thinking instead of seeing where I'm coming from?

Why are you so overdefensive here, Tammy? And the bolded pings my scumdar. Not a very satisfactory response to Nacho's prodding you about "shutting down the fight."

Your reaction actually bothers me.

Still catching up, lovelies. Please stay tuned and remember that I am very ADD-like in posting and jump around a lot. But I'm gonna get into this <3

[Ms Marangal]

or just click these links. My username is Currently PurplePaws

Spoiler:

Lorwyn Mafia (My first mafia game ever) we were both town
911 mafia (Gen was mod-killed D1 though >.>)
Generic's Jester game
Game we were both town in, I was Friendly Neighbor one-shot.
I was scum this game, and fairly powerful.
Gen was poisoner, I was Town JoAT
TAM's Deathy that we all hate... we were both cops
Gen Scum, Mara-town
we were both town here
I'm scum, generic's town

[Bert]

At the very least, prove your worth. You say you need "4 more votes" but don't you really only need 3?
Either way, AtE is spewing from your posts, at least in my eyes. And, tbh, i'm not sure why people even use it. i mean, isn't it something people only do when grasping at straws. You make it seem like your lynch is inevitable when it is fact not. We still have nearly 2 weeks to sort this out, yet you have already resigned yourself to this fate. It's sad that a newbie like me has to tell you to stop the damn defeatist attitude. I see you have 2 options here.

1. Vote yourself.

2. Cut the crap and actually start scum hunting.

*shakes head at the "vote yourself" option*

I've made my cases,

if you really aren't going to lynch me I will read the cases made by others. But my vote on mara won't be moving unless its to nacho on current game shape.

Defeatist attitude is I have put in my work for this game, have fought and defended on 4 fronts now (peacebringer, shadoweh, mara and nacho) and as mara will testify my post attitude is rarely dictated by alignment but almost always dictated by my mood. I'm borderline autistic, have an autistic son I have to look after and several other current issues bubbling away from MS which aren't important to the game nor are they anyone's business but mine.
I'm edgy, and in one game already I allowed that to turn into nastiness. So I promised myself it wouldn't happen here so I have kept everything game relevant until now.

@ Mod. going V/LA for at least a few days.

The rest get to enjoy the game now without my input which I'm sure has been ruining things by the tone I'm receiving back.

Why do we need to tell you you won't be lynched for you to go read the cases made by others???

But yes I am very edgy too so I can relate (in some fashion) to that. But please do not go away just because you feel everyone's against you or you're against pros.

Heck, I feel that way when I see Tammy posting. I don't think I could lead a successful case against her, ever, even if I really really wanted her dead.

Tammy, my entire arguement about Mara being scum has NOTHING to do with external to me factors. You clearly haven't read my case.
.

I have read your case. I've read both of them more than once, but as that's a large part of it or at least the impression I'm getting,

I'm having trouble gauging either of you.

Why are you having trouble gauging either one of them?? I don't understand

or just click these links. My username is Currently PurplePaws

Spoiler:

Lorwyn Mafia (My first mafia game ever) we were both town
911 mafia (Gen was mod-killed D1 though >.>)
Generic's Jester game
Game we were both town in, I was Friendly Neighbor one-shot.
I was scum this game, and fairly powerful.
Gen was poisoner, I was Town JoAT
TAM's Deathy that we all hate... we were both cops
Gen Scum, Mara-town
we were both town here
I'm scum, generic's town

Who was this to? The links don't let you in unless you log-in and are registered...

[Bert]

Generic isn't town Desp and I havn't been wrong on a scum-gen Read in the 10+ games I have had with him.

Your confidence is noted.

Unvote

Trolling is a pretty good motive imo. I agree Empire hasn't busted out his meta-reel, but why does it matter this early? Empire isn't here, sitting on thumbs waiting for him would be scummier. I should probably read Red Wedding better, I only read you on the day you got lynched.

I also don't think voting someone and encouraging bandwagoning is the best way to suck up to someone.

I want you to answer me on something. Who has been sucking up to who in this game? (be as detailed as possible)

I'm caught up now but I'm getting used to people's names, and there are a few people I don't even remember after reading the game. =]

There's that nagging feeling in the back of my mind to look at Peacebringer (sp) closely. More of a gut instinct to check him/her out closely.

[Tammy]

Why didn't you ask me why I wanted the fight to end? Why did you just tell me what you think I should be thinking instead of seeing where I'm coming from?

I was on the offensive last night, just in case you couldn't tell. I'm pretty glad I did, though; I don't think I would've caught that you were actually doing this from a pro-town perspective as opposed from the "people are posting too much i'm not reading what they're saying" I see so much.

And what would make you jump to me of all people going at it from the perspective of dont want to read all that? I can't remember a game where I didn't read everything, not even as scum. I just don't understand especially when this was the post in which I asked for the fight to stop:

My biggest thoughts right now though are that I want you and Mara to take a break from your slap fight. It would be one thing if it were based on in thread posts, but its on how you guys expect for each other to behave. That's fine for a little bit, but it should end now. Neither of you are going to convince anyone based on what you're doing now. It's at the point where it's causing a distraction and making it hard to get a read on either of you. So it would be super awesome if you took a break from one another and looked at other things.

I think that's clear that I thought it was a distraction and it was hard to read either of them from that. How you jumped to "I don't want to read stuff" is beyond me.

[Tammy]

*the exception being that I didn't read all of generics posts during the metal sonic/generic showdown during the red wedding.

[Bert]

EBWOP: I also don't like Gaiden. I just looked back and he/she has a completed game as scum where he was given a newb pass. Anyways...

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=29901

Curious to see what you all think of him, given his lack of sample size, etc., etc.

But #188 advising a self-vote is so freakin suspicious. Later y'all lovelies!

[Tammy]

Tammy, I brought up points against Generic. What do you think of those points?

I think that you believe those points, and after nacho gave his reasons for town reading you, I think you're more likely to be town.

But I want to see how generic interacts with people not you or related to you because right now I can't tell if he's scum trying to discredit you or town who is getting more and more flustered that his mentee is scum reading him and flailing and striking out at anyone for agreeing with you.

[Tammy]

I latched on cause what I saw reading on the game. The prior part is part and parcel to games here, at least it used to be. Nature of replacing. Everyone else I am feeling and more interest in seeing where votes go and seeing what the claims are. I think Generic needs to claim. I believe he is being overly defensive and reactive for the circumstances.

So, no reads on anyone else?

[Tammy]

I called Tammy suspicious for attempting to shut down the fight between you and Marangal because this fight of yours have made the game infinitely more interesting.

Yes, Tammy is sooooo suspicious for wanting a fight that has become unproductive to end. It's just so horrible of me to want them to interact with and talk about other people that isn't just rooted in their bickerfests so that town can get a better read on them and then maybe be able to see if there's something in that fight that's worthwhile.

Why didn't you ask me why I wanted the fight to end?

Why did you just tell me what you think I should be thinking instead of seeing where I'm coming from?

Why are you so overdefensive here, Tammy? And the bolded pings my scumdar. Not a very satisfactory response to Nacho's prodding you about "shutting down the fight."

Because his push on that was silly, and that's not the only response I gave to him. As far as I was/am concerned the way he framed the whole thing wasn't in the manner of trying to figure out why I would want the fight stopped and instead told me how I should be thinking. That's not trying to seek my alignment at all.

And it was a stupid push. Extended bickerfests that end up not being productive are bad for town. They give scum a place to hide, make people take sides for non alignment based reasons, and can cause apathy in town. All bad for town. Trying to paint me as suspicious for wanting it to come to an end because it was becoming unproductive struck me as really off. It still does.

Your reaction actually bothers me.

So.

[Tammy]

Heck, I feel that way when I see Tammy posting. I don't think I could lead a successful case against her, ever, even if I really really wanted her dead.

I don't know why anyone would ever want me dead. I'm a fucking sweetheart.

Tammy, my entire arguement about Mara being scum has NOTHING to do with external to me factors. You clearly haven't read my case.
.

I have read your case. I've read both of them more than once, but as that's a large part of it or at least the impression I'm getting,

I'm having trouble gauging either of you.

Why are you having trouble gauging either one of them?? I don't understand

I don't have the benefit of knowing their alignments. Both of them seem like they believe what they're saying, which makes it difficult to tell if one of them is bsing.

[Bert]

And it was a stupid push. Extended bickerfests that end up not being productive are bad for town. They give scum a place to hide, make people take sides for non alignment based reasons, and can cause apathy in town. All bad for town. Trying to paint me as suspicious for wanting it to come to an end because it was becoming unproductive struck me as really off. It still does.

*shrug* Kay then. They make people take sides for non alignment based reasons?? How so...

I don't know why anyone would ever want me dead. I'm a fucking sweetheart.

Innocent blah-blah - not buying it. Don't you talk to me like that. Tell that "I'M A SWEETIE PIE" to the people in 501 Stacking the Deck. Puh-leez. I don't trust you with a ten-foot pole.

I don't have the benefit of knowing their alignments. Both of them seem like they believe what they're saying, which makes it difficult to tell if one of them is bsing.

Then which one is more likely (right now, in your current frame of mind) to be BSing? Surely you can answer that?