Mini 1496: The Cash Cabd (Game Over)

[Rail Tracer]

And If I "berate" a hydra it'll have a reason. If you do something scummy, it'll be scummy regardless of any questions I might or might not have asked.

I think Isaac pointed it out earlier, but every single thing you've said about hydras could have been summed up in like a single sentence instead of walling your thoughts on them. I really don't like the fact that you're making such a big deal out of hydras, regardless of how bad this one experience happened to be two years ago.

FuDuzn's reaction (after what could be like mild activity) to the votes on him is odd. A little too concerned. As if a scum player who thought himself acting in the same way as always was getting flak and immediately got annoyed.

Does this mean you're reading FuDuzn as scum?

---

I think that his hate of hydrae from two years ago is genuine or else he wouldn't make a giant ranty post against it, and the way he's acted upon this hate is more indicative of a town mindset than a scum mindset. I don't really see an advantage as scum of "hydras suck!!!" either, so that's an added benefit. Why aren't you townreading him?

I think his hate of hydras may be genuine, but he's making a much bigger deal out of it than he should be considering

a single bad experience with a single hydra

.

How is the way he's acted on it indicative of a town mindset, exactly? What do you think he'd have said differently about it if he were scum trying to convey that he has issues with hydras? The biggest problem I have is

none of the stuff he's said about hydras is alignment-indicative

, which makes all the walling about them moot.

So you ask me why I think this benefits him as scum? In the short run, it makes it seem like he's doing something when he really isn't. Compare the game-relevant content of his posts so far to the amount of times he's mentioned his feelings about his hatred for hydras. It appears he's written a lot, but only a very tiny fraction of what he's written is game-relevant. In the long run, had he not been called out on it, he would have had the option of, at some point down the line, saying, "omg, this is why I hate hydras!!!" if he ever felt like pushing a lynch on one of them. These are just a couple basic reasons I could see it benefitting him as scum.

The better question is, what

town motivation

is there in talking about his hatred of hydras this much?

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I'm liking HP and rebel w/o a pulse for town.

Why?

---

Stubbs' first post gave off a pretty strong townfeel.

Why?

---

If you want lynch me than get it over with

Give me your current reads.

---

FuDuzn is kinda scum so far, especially in (116) where he just sort of gives up and resigns to his fate after fighting it quite a bit. Could be an appeal to emotion? I definitely think there are some scum on his wagon though.

Huh? What wagon? And who do you think is scum on this "wagon"? And if you think FuDuzn is scum, why not vote him? Why Fegelein, since you didn't even mention him in this post?

[Mario and the Diamonds]

I read through the thread, and didn't understand a lot of the posts.

The only thing that stuck out to me was Rebel's attempted interactions with the mod. The likely-joking tone didn't fit in at all with the content of his posts and that struck me as odd.

And if people are going to be silly and scumread people for inactivity, I would assume that my name would have been mentioned at least once. For example, HC offhandedly calling Fegelein scum for "flying under the radar" is fairly terrible since:

1. It's an easy name to call out with lots of pressure already on him.
2. Interpreting this post, it (somewhat) makes sense to translate it as "oh, since I need to throw out solid reads on players to make people think I'm trying to find scum, I'll give the name of a player who has just enough posts for me and others to remember their name, but not enough posts for people to disagree with me on the inactivity callout. I'm not looking at the playerlist at all, since only accusing specifically Fegelein for lurking shouldn't garner too much attack."
3. Again, the lack of an insane amount of posts is in this kind of mafia environment terrible reason for someone to scumread another player.

To be honest this is all I really need to have a strong scumread on HC.

VOTE: HopefullyCynical

Sorry if you want to appeal to me now, but I'm most likely going to tunnel you for the rest of the day with limited evidence that other people won't understand, and rely mostly on my gut and what I believe was your most likely train of thought at the time of your scummier posts. I'm a tone and voice player; if it sounds scummy when read to myself, I will see it as scummy in its original context as well.

Good night.

P.S.: What do you gain from asking questions such as "Could it be an appeal to emotion?" rather than simply stating "It looks like an appeal to emotion."? Asking for other players' opinions on a potential opinion that you're suggesting but not adopting, rather than just running with that opinion on your own, is distasteful and, for lack of a better word, scummy.

This post was disjointed horribly but it's all I've got. Sorry if MafiaScum doesn't appreciate my schedule, which has me being slightly busy on weekends. Please take note of that, and if you disapprove, simply say that I'm scum and push for a lynch on me because I'm not posting every 6 hours. Problem solved.

[Rail Tracer]

that post is somewhat in line with my own thinking on cynical so far (particularly the ps part). additionally i'm having a hard time believing that cynical had so much trouble figuring out what a hydra is and was playing it up a lot.

[Rebel Without a Pulse]

And the fewer escape routes you have, the better.

I'm talking about my read of you. Figuring out whether town- or scum-nacho is more likely to make this explicit could take a while. It's bollixed up my methodology for reading you almost as much as your ambiguity-injection post-buzzword bingo did.

I'm being more transparent than I usually would be because of hydraing with Stubbs, but I'm glad that being transparent has the unexpected side effect of knocking you even more off your game.

you are both correct in thinking I am scummy for not having placed a vote yet. I wanted to make sure I understood hydras before I posted further/made a vote.

Wait, why are you scummy for not placing a vote?

but he's making a much bigger deal out of it than he should be considering a single bad experience with a single hydra.

This is the rational interpretation, yes. But I find emotions to be irrational things, he's going about this in an irrational way, things match up so far.

In the short run, it makes it seem like he's doing something when he really isn't. Compare the game-relevant content of his posts so far to the amount of times he's mentioned his feelings about his hatred for hydras. It appears he's written a lot, but only a very tiny fraction of what he's written is game-relevant. In the long run, had he not been called out on it, he would have had the option of, at some point down the line, saying, "omg, this is why I hate hydras!!!" if he ever felt like pushing a lynch on one of them. These are just a couple basic reasons I could see it benefitting him as scum.

If he's using it as an excuse for actually scumhunting, then I'm sure we'll find that out really really soon. In the long run, that's not the type of reason that I would accept as valid or vaguely townie so all that wonderful groundwork he's laying down is pretty much all for naught.

The better question is, what town motivation is there in talking about his hatred of hydras this much?

Minimizing damage.

The only thing that stuck out to me was Rebel's attempted interactions with the mod. The likely-joking tone didn't fit in at all with the content of his posts and that struck me as odd.

The rest of the post was serious. I try not to make my jokes sound too serious.

[artemiskitty]

Didn't like it. And generally didn't like his interpretation of my post 31, either.

in post 31 you DID say brian concerns you.

i can see how fuz might wonder if you were going to follow through with that comment, or not. doesn't seem scummy on his part (at least at this point, in reading)

[artemiskitty]

kinda wondering if you are trying to make it into something.

[Saki]

/notactuallypgo

so guys, cats or dogs?

[Sound of Silence]

And the fewer escape routes you have, the better.

I'm talking about my read of you. Figuring out whether town- or scum-nacho is more likely to make this explicit could take a while. It's bollixed up my methodology for reading you almost as much as your ambiguity-injection post-buzzword bingo did.

I'm being more transparent than I usually would be because of hydraing with Stubbs, but I'm glad that being transparent has the unexpected side effect of knocking you even more off your game.

Thanks!

[HopefullyCynical]

Anybody in this game would have been an easy name to call out with pressure on me-FuDuzn, Fegelein, me, you, etc. The difference between you and Fegelein is that you already have contributed to the game much more than he has. His two posts have been pointless so far. If I didn't think he was worth my vote I wouldn't have put it on him.

"What do you gain from asking questions such as "Could it be an appeal to emotion?" rather than simply stating "It looks like an appeal to emotion."? Asking for other players' opinions on a potential opinion that you're suggesting but not adopting, rather than just running with that opinion on your own, is distasteful and, for lack of a better word, scummy."

I try to treat this game like a conversation, and I try to involve the rest of the players as if they were in person with me, where I could ask them questions and so on. I apologize for being misleading.

"Huh? What wagon? And who do you think is scum on this "wagon"? And if you think FuDuzn is scum, why not vote him? Why Fegelein, since you didn't even mention him in this post?"

Dessew, SOS and you were suspecting Fu. Dessew strikes me as suspicious, but I'd like to him to clarify on his post first. As for the second part, I posted about it right after the the post you are questioning.

[Dessew]

Well done, HC! However, unvote Fege, because it's stupid to vote somebody only because of inactivity.
UNVOTE: HC
We both played in Newbie 1393, along with Fu, that's why I placed my random vote (I know I said "serious vote", but come oooon) on HC. Because I thought I could get something out of his reactions. He's hasty, joking a little, concerned about the vote on him (even starting to suspect the one (me) who is voting him.) There's also the "I don't know who to vote, I don't want to harm town by voting to the wrong place." Also, there's the fact that he placed his vote on Fege with a stupid reasonong, and his last post (#133) screws up chronology, Mario had contributed to the game as much as Fege had when HC voted Fege.

VOTE: Fu
Everything has been said about him, his early posts, being too concerned about being suspected and self-defeatism.

[FuDuzn]

No! No! No!

I am not concerned with suspicion on me I am concerned with how the suspicion got there. All I have been doing is trying to get a solid reason to how questioning someone about they worded a post leads to 'oh so fu is obv scum', and the frustration has built because all I get is 'well fu has reacted strangely' and no explanae of my question.

To those leading my wagon, answer my damm question please. To those sheeping, I am getting ready to vote one of you.

If I am lynched, the blood will be all over one of the sheep.

[Rebel Without a Pulse]

Dessew and SOS, you are both correct in thinking I am scummy for not having placed a vote yet. I wanted to make sure I understood hydras before I posted further/made a vote. I feel like if I posted without somewhat of an understanding it would only be hurting the townies and I since I could potentially mislead them. That being said, it is scummy of me to not have a vote down yet. Thank you for the explanation of the hydras SOS, it helped me a lot. I also want to apologize to the group for contributing to the "hydra nonsense" but it helped me, so thank you.

So far HP, and Rail seem town to me. FuDuzn is kinda scum so far, especially in (116) where he just sort of gives up and resigns to his fate after fighting it quite a bit. Could be an appeal to emotion? I definitely think there are some scum on his wagon though.

I would also like to know why you voted for me Dessew. We have quite a few players not voting, why pick me?

Vote: Fegelein

HC, you think FuDuzn is scummy AND you think there's scum on his wagon? Why both of these? And why not vote on of them?

Stubbs.

[Dessew]

You see, the problem isn't that you're concerned but that you hardly post anything else. I mean, yeees, you called out SoS, but he isn't scummy after all according to you, and you were posting about why others suspect you and you posted about how HP could be town, ergo you're townish and you were posting about why other suspect you and you AtE'd. It seems as if you accidentally forgot to scumhunt, that's what I mean by "being too concerned". Anyway, there're a lot of ways to convice me, AtE isn't one, though.
(Almost forgot: threatening(?) with OMGUS to prove you innocence?)

[Sound of Silence]

No! No! No!

I am not concerned with suspicion on me I am concerned with how the suspicion got there. All I have been doing is trying to get a solid reason to how questioning someone about they worded a post leads to 'oh so fu is obv scum', and the frustration has built because all I get is 'well fu has reacted strangely' and no explanae of my question.

To those leading my wagon, answer my damm question please. To those sheeping, I am getting ready to vote one of you.

If I am lynched, the blood will be all over one of the sheep.

And I still don't get how you could see something in that post that would equate to my poo pooing my own concerns.

I just don't.

I'm not voting you because you questioned me. I'm voting you because your questioning made NO SENSE given what I'd actually written and I feel like you were casting about looking for something to question, not genuinely concerned about what I posted.

And now you're saying it's how I worded the post. I thought it was the purported gist.

[Brian Skies]

And yet, you didn't mention this. You only mention it now.

woah. you're really reading the whole thing? I'm so sorry for you.

I don't mind being called "agreeable" as long as it's referring to the correct things. I'd rather nip a potential problem in the bud than getting misrepresented down the road.

And yes, I actually finished reading that painful wall-to-wall posting you call a game on Tuesday night.

[Fegelein]

I'm taking a break from playing Mafia due to IRL stuff, so sub me out.

[Cabd]

I'm taking a break from playing Mafia due to IRL stuff, so sub me out.

Noted.

[Brian Skies]

I didn't recall EXACTLY what happened but:
- poor game.
- hydra signs posts (perfect for squizo excuse)
- posted wrong account (harder to iso)
- made it to lylo

After skimming the link I saw that he also:
- screwed lylo
- had no problems about it.

I actually have a different analysis about this game.

You say it was a poor game, but in my opinion, it was pretty good up until around page 23 or so. After that point, I'd like to say the town made a few bad mistakes and the mafia capitalized.

The hydra signed their posts, but they never intended to use it as an excuse or tried to hide behind the other head (the hydra was town by the way). In fact, one of the other town members misrepresented them and said that was what they were doing. This led to confusion and derailed the hydra's credibility. The mafia used this to their advantage.

The hydra did post under the wrong account several times, but seeing as how it was a relatively short game, I don't see this being an issue. A little more work from the teammates should make up for this shortcoming. People are human after all. We all make mistakes. I'm new to this game, but iso seems to be a tool for scumhunting, townreading, and analyzing information in a quick and efficient manner, but not a necessity to properly play the game. Kind of like using a calculator.

I don't see a problem with a hydra making it to lylo. How is this any different from another player/slot making it to lylo?

Yes, the hydra screwed lylo by placing a vote on a town member. But is this a mistake that only hydras make? Or is it common between all players, regardless of player/slot type?

Why should it matter if they had no problems about it? The game was already over at that point. They were convinced they knew who mafia was, and they acted upon that. If you can't make a decision like that without conviction, why make it at all?

[Brian Skies]

Also, if it was a poor game, why use it as a reference? I don't see why you would knowingly use a bad example to prove a point.

[Brian Skies]

/notactuallypgo

so guys, cats or dogs?

Are you or aren't you? If you're not, then why claim? Lying doesn't help town. Slight scumread.

Also, dogs:
1) I have dogs.
2) Even though they're cute, I'm allergic to kittens.
3) Even though I'm not allergic to them, I don't find cats cute when they're all grown up.

[Dessew]

Are you really going to discuss hydrae?
Regarding Saki: it's his playstyle. It's cool. Or not. I'm not gonna decide it in your stead.

[Brian Skies]

Are you really going to discuss hydrae?
Regarding Saki: it's his playstyle. It's cool. Or not. I'm not gonna decide it in your stead.

I read that monstrosity (although I'm sure it's nothing compared to other games). It gave me a headache. I want to discuss it. Also, HP has pretty much confirmed his stance against hydras. I want to know if it is warranted or if he's just directing the attention towards them.

Regarding Saki: So he's one of "those" players...this is gonna be fun.

[Sound of Silence]

His retracting the PGO claim points to town-Saki IMO.

[Rail Tracer]

But I find emotions to be irrational things, he's going about this in an irrational way, things match up so far.

so he's being emotional and irrational and this is making you read him as town? or what part of the irrational approach made you think "town mindset"?

---

@artemis,

thoughts on the game so far? reads? anything?

---

@saki,

i doubt i'm going to get much out of you, but same question as above.

---

I try to treat this game like a conversation, and I try to involve the rest of the players as if they were in person with me, where I could ask them questions and so on. I apologize for being misleading.

that doesn't really excuse you from not taking your

own

stances on things. either you think it is ate (and possibly alignment-indicative) or you don't.

Dessew, SOS and you were suspecting Fu. Dessew strikes me as suspicious, but I'd like to him to clarify on his post first. As for the second part, I posted about it right after the the post you are questioning.

so why not say that you think dessew is suspicious, rather than say you think there's scum in the players attacking fuduzn?
what about dessew strikes you as suspicious?
why is fegelein more worthy of a vote than either fuduzn or dessew?

---

Well done, HC! However, unvote Fege, because it's stupid to vote somebody only because of inactivity.

i don't like this line.

He's hasty, joking a little, concerned about the vote on him (even starting to suspect the one (me) who is voting him.) There's also the "I don't know who to vote, I don't want to harm town by voting to the wrong place." Also, there's the fact that he placed his vote on Fege with a stupid reasonong, and his last post (#133) screws up chronology, Mario had contributed to the game as much as Fege had when HC voted Fege.

does this all mean you're currently reading HC as town or what?

---

To those leading my wagon, answer my damm question please.

maybe you should actually read.

speaking of, give me your current reads.

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HC, you think FuDuzn is scummy AND you think there's scum on his wagon? Why both of these? And why not vote on of them?

. . . .
this was already addressed by HC in #133

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His retracting the PGO claim points to town-Saki IMO.

not really, but i don't feel like arguing about this at this point.

[Sound of Silence]

His retracting the PGO claim points to town-Saki IMO.

not really, but i don't feel like arguing about this at this point.

I'm thinking this way because of a game we were both playing that completed last night. I think he's decided to play more conservatively.