Open 521: Jungle Republic (Alright. We'll call it a draw)

[Yggdra Union]

I ISO'ed twice and still don't see this - but it's a moot point because I'm not trying to make a case on it, I just wanted an answer. Ty for the answer. :p

After publically calling this slot town, I realized that I didn't have his scumgames in my disposal. But there's one thing I pursued, which is "DP-town is aggressive and have conviction."

Also I'm not reading saki's posts because it only muddies the water.

With that in mind:

My say? I have no idea what the hell youre talking about.

Why dont you have an RVS vote? For that matter, your whole quasi read on fuzzylogic is pretty bad. Why is it obv scum instead of stating facts, this makes no sense. Youre trying to paint him as sscummy for something that even you said could be just stating facts.

VOTE: Krazy

My vote is serious,

Ending RVS quick, agressive, the timing of the presentation, I like them all.

That must be DP head.

/runs

-Luciana

Well, this is not alignment-indicative, but still it's funny.

Krazy's post about fuzzy seems a bit premature but I think he was being genuine. I don't like BOOM's reaction to it though. I think he was reading it way to deep and going for a quick lynch.
VOTE: BOOM

How is it going for a quicklynch when he had 2 votes? Bad accusation.

For that matter you had me and the person I voted for as scum reads yet failed to explain why.

For that matter you have Krazy as a scum read and yet agree with him?

And your attack is pretty opportunistic. You aren't the first vote on said wagon, so by YOUR logic, you're quicklynching? Even without the faulty logic, your attack is pretty much based on him being a newb and not on him being scum

VOTE: baldeagle[/b]

Sound logic, and it contains the conviction that I see in DP-town.

also @ boom.

laughing at your own joke? bad form

I made the joke. Saki laughed

I forgot why I quoted this...
Oh, right. I wanted to point out that this ace post sucked.

Have you guys ever stopped to think that no scum would actually try to push an early self vote as a scum tell or a suicidal tactic?

I was confused at first cause the first thing I read was him saying rival and fellow scum after we got prodded (its hard having a hydra when the other head doesnt post)

But im sure theres at least 1 of each scum in the fuzzy wagon.

His thought process match up and have a logic behind the bolded.
This is more from town, because it's so easy to say bolded without giving any proper explanations behind it and just say "lolgut" and still could get away with it.

Yes because quickhammering is automatically scummy.

That being said, I tried to restrain Saki, he has this habit of quickhammering in EVERY game he is in. I thought hydra-ing with him would make him not do that..

Meh, Fuzzy being the night kill surprised me, but I guess its because he couldnt have been mislynched anymore.

Actually The times where I was here, I have been voicing out my suspicion towards the fuzzy wagon and people on it. There is at least one wolf and 1 mafia on it.

Anyway, i like how ace assumes quickhammer = scum and calls us his biggest candidate without voting us or even giving out basic questions. Plus he was a proponent of the fuzzy wagon yesterday, which was clearly a mislynch.

VOTE: aceofspades

DP

First, I liked how he handled ace's accusation of "lol he quickhammered. scum."
I can vouch for Saki being a quickhammer pleb.
The only thing I don't get is why he dropped his baldeagle attack and went for ace instead.

TL;DR - I'm satisfied with his play so far and I can see some town motive behind his post. There's one thing that bothers me a little, but it's not enough to change my townread on him.

-L

How did you miss it

Anyway, now that I gave you the answer, what's your opinion on it?

-L

[Alduskkel]

What's your opinion on my "towncase" on BOOM and tippy?

BOOM case is okay, but I would caution against calling anyone town based on their ability to scumhunt, since scum can scumhunt in this game too.

Your "case" for town TIP means little to me. TIP is still reading null.

We had TWO good reasons on our part to sort you as wolf.
Why are you ignoring those?

-L

What are those two reasons?

Quoted those few posts before.

Mind directing me? Your iso is difficult to sift through.

[Yggdra Union]

Yeah I admit that my towncase on tippy is weak, because, well, he really haven't done anything.
But I'm having a townvibe from him and I feel good about it too.

Also those two points:

Why is he a Wolf specifically?

Because mafia have daytalk.
He wouldn't jump like that if he was mafia because there should've been a coaching involved.

-Luciana

This was mine, but since it's proven that mafia don't have a daytalk, it's moot.

Also.

Baldeagle is throwing half-baked pies.

Proof that he doesn't have solid read on us. Meaning he's making us look like scum but knowing we are town.

Ergo, wolf.

This was Aegina's, but since Aegina was thinking a definition of "scum" as "mafia" instead of all anti-town alignments, it's moot by the communication error.

-Luciana

-L

[Alduskkel]

Those aren't really GOOD reasons to think that baldeagle is a wolf.

[Yggdra Union]

That's probably why we dropped them, you know.

But the point is that we had a

reasons

to call him wolf.

-L

[Alduskkel]

But you called them GOOD reasons back in post 636.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

V/LA ends later. Expect stuff tonight.

DP

[Yggdra Union]

But you called them GOOD reasons back in post 636.

I probably meant "Good reasons on our part," because I'm pretty sure I've been saying that they're not valid anymore.

-L

[Yggdra Union]

Any since I apparently "spammed" this thread (blame yourself. You're the one who pulled yourself into this mess.)

I'll point out to you to the relevant post!

Act 1 - The spam starts here about at this point

Scene 1
The problem post - the "scumslip"

Link here

Scene 2
The case - baldeagle1 is scum and should be lynched

Link here

Scene 3
The terrible sheep

Link here

Act 2 - The Second Strike

Scene 1
The "scumslip" strikes again

Link here

Scene 2
The two logics of the wolf busines

Link here (and the next post)

Scene 3
Ace strikes again with the terribad post

Link here

Act 3 - The Glorious Comeback

Scene 1
Refutation against first "slip"

Link here

Scene 2
Refutation against second "slip"

Link here

Scene 3
Genius Ace strikes again!

Link here

Act 4 - Finale

Scene 1
The Third Attempt

Link here

Scene 2
Confirmed town

Link here

Bonus Content

towncase on BOOM

Link here

towncase on tippy (Warning: it's weak.)

Link here

A good post

Link here

*Editor's note*
1. baldeagle1 and ace are still scum.
2. bald still haven't looked at our refutation yet still accuses us for scumslipping.

-L

[Yggdra Union]

BOOM case is okay, but I would caution against calling anyone town based on their ability to scumhunt, since scum can scumhunt in this game too.

I'm keep forgetting that -.-
But still I'm liking my read on him so far

-L

[Yggdra Union]

All 3 major wagons

Vote Count 1.07

BOOMSHAKALAKA (0)
Gnomeo (0)
Klick (4) Om of the Nom, Yggdra Union,

1baldeagle1

, TrumpetKing
Smoker (0)
theaceofspades (0)
ferretlover (1) Klick
1baldeagle1 (2) ferretlover, BOOMSHAKALAKA
TrumpetKing (0)
KrazyEyeKilla7 (0)
Yggdra Union (0)
Om of the Nom (0)
TheFuzzyLogic99 (1) Gnomeo

Not Voting:

Smoker, theaceofspades, TheFuzzyLogic99

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Vote Count 1.09

BOOMSHAKALAKA (0)
Gnomeo (0)
Klick (1) Yggdra Union
Smoker (0)
theaceofspades (0)
ferretlover (2) Klick, Om of the Nom
1baldeagle1 (1) BOOMSHAKALAKA
TrumpetKing (0)
KrazyEyeKilla7 (0)
Yggdra Union (0)
Om of the Nom (0)
TheFuzzyLogic99 (6) Gnomeo, theaceofspades, TrumpetKing, KrazyEyeKilla7,

1baldeagle1

, ferretlover

L-1

Not Voting:

Smoker, TheFuzzyLogic99

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Vote Count 1.15

BOOMSHAKALAKA (0)
Gnomeo (0)
Klick (0)
elleheathen (0)
theaceofspades (0)
ferretlover (7) Klick, Om of the Nom, elleheathen, Yggdra Union,

1baldeagle1

, TrumpetKing, BOOMSHAKALAKA

Lynch

1baldeagle1 (0)
TrumpetKing (0)
KrazyEyeKilla7 (0)
Yggdra Union (0)
Om of the Nom (0)
TheFuzzyLogic99 (3) Gnomeo, theaceofspades, ferretlover

Not Voting:

TheFuzzyLogic99, KrazyEyeKilla7

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

[TrumpetKing]

I'm back. I'm going to try and catch up, but I'm still sorting things out and might not get to it right away.

[theaceofspades]

i fail to see how believing you both to be scum is a scummy behavior.

[elleheathen]

Elle, didn't you replace in one of my games before? I swear, I remember you joining one of my games hence why I was familiar.

I don't believe I've played a game with you, no, hence my asking. So, more false statements?

Yggdra, on the other hand, I'm not sure of either. Not only do I not like their pointing out of their own 'townslips' as I stated before

The sad thing is though, I don't see the "townslip" myself, because he never told me.

I believe it was in reference to your mafia daytalk confusion. I don't know what to think of the 'townslip' itself but it just the fact that I get a weird feeling from a hydra pointing out their other heads supposed townieness from a slip that could have just as easily been planned to be exactly that or could be just a genuine response. But I'm not sure either way, so 'weird feeling'.

but I don't like their whole trying to confirm themselves as town based on the supposed (and faulty)logic, either.

Exactly which part of our logic is faulty?
Why can't town try to confirm himself as town? Do you think try to confirm self as town is pure scum move?
Mafia is not a game you play by textbook.
Sure, there are some guidelines to pick out general stuff, but the "abnormalities" are bound to happen.
I.E. The textbook teaches that scums are usually self-concious. Well, guess what? Town can be self-concious too. The textbook teaches that scums are survivalistic. Well, guess what? Town can be survivalistic too.

I'm only going to address the first two parts here, because I agree with the rest. In regards to town confirming, I think it's obviously something you should do if you can. However, that's where I find yours lacking.

I get the point you're trying to make, yes. But the faulty part is this:

Also I'll be confirming myself as town now.

622 implies that I wolf-slipped.
635 implies that I mafia-slipped.

Regardless of which alignment indicative slip it may be, if I were to think your first 'scumslip' was an actual slip and that you used your 13 player reasoning as an excuse to cover it up then the first would make you scum and the second could just be the other alignment trying to find other things to push your lynch.
There's a lot of WIFOM to be had in all of it - and a lot of possibilities in between but none of them are town confirming. All it does confirm is that the likelihood of BOTH of them being 'scumslips' is no likelihood at all.

That, and the fact that they keep going on about how people would have to disprove their logic on how these slips could be irrelevant in order to lynch them,

It is absolutely necessary that people needing to disprove my logic, because I want to know what their thought process are.
When people have an opinion, they need a train of thoughts to reach it. By asking people to challenge my logic, I can see what's going on ppl's head, and can see if their opinions are well-organized, or just simple came out of the blue for opportunistic jump. Follow me here?

Wanting to know what their thought processes and/or reasonings are for voting you is different from having to disprove your logic, as I explained what I'd have easily done had I been more convinced that either one of those slips was

actually

a slip. Either way, reworded like that it doesn't sound as odd as it had before.

I ISO'ed twice and still don't see this - but it's a moot point because I'm not trying to make a case on it, I just wanted an answer. Ty for the answer. :p

How did you miss it

Anyway, now that I gave you the answer, what's your opinion on it?

-L

I didn't miss the answer, hence me thanking you for it. What I was referencing, and quoted to in my post, was this:

That, and the fact they've ignored my question on BOOM twice now.

I believe that I told you two days ago that I would be answering that today.

I didn't see you saying that the read would be provided at any time, even after ISO'ing twice.
And as for my opinion on it, I don't agree, especially with the last part (as I've already given my read on BOOM) but it makes me feel a lot less sketchy than your original naked read of BOOM did.

[Yggdra Union]

Slips are the total opposite of WIFOM because WIFOM is done on purpose of creating confusion, while slips are unconscious act that are not done on purpose.
Therefore, there can be no WIFOM in slips, because by their natures they can't coexist.

Also I've done more than 13p thing to disprove that first one.

Check the link on Act 3 Scene 1.
The first "slip" is for one-antitown faction setup only.
In multiball, it's completely null.

Also the point is that, regardless of likelihoodness, I've been accused of dropping both mafia-slip and wolf-slip.
They didn't wanted to lose this golden opportunity to get an "easy" mislynch, they pushed it too far.
Now, as long as they're keep pushing for it, that makes me confirmed town, because as long as they're pushing them, my logic stands.
My point can only be disproven ONLY if they drop the "scumslip" accusation.
So you see what I did there?
I've set down a logic trap on scums.
They will either have to confirm me as town, or destroy their own points about us "scum slipping", which makes them having no more points to push a lynch on us.
That's what they get for using terribad points to accuse anyway

Also you might have missed the promise thing because I didn't directly talk to you at that post, but I promised a town case in a post where I mention "little game."

-Luciana

[Yggdra Union]

i fail to see how believing you both to be scum is a scummy behavior.

That by itself isn't.
It's how you did it.

-L

[Yggdra Union]

Well, tbh, scum can just decide to be fucking dense, stall til the deadline, and decide to loldeadlinelynch us.
But before that happens, I feel confident that I will nail down most of them, if this keeps on going.
And after I flip town, VCA's gonna look reeeeeeeally bad on them.

-L

[Yggdra Union]

Hell, the VCA really look bad on eagle already.
(In case ppl haven't realized yet, he was on a every single major wagon. And three of them are on town.)
-L

[Alduskkel]

So was Trumpet King. What do you make of that?

[Yggdra Union]

I didn't miss it.
I just want to wait on him for a bit.

-L

[Alduskkel]

Do you consider the baldeagle wagon a major wagon?

[Yggdra Union]

At this point, yes.
But you know, that's probably the one wagon that baldeagle won't jump on

-L

[elleheathen]

Slips are the total opposite of WIFOM because WIFOM is done on purpose of creating confusion, while slips are unconscious act that are not done on purpose.
Therefore, there can be no WIFOM in slips, because by their natures they can't coexist.

Errr...

I'm not relating the slip and the WIFOM. I was stating that there was a lot of WIFOM to be had in whether or not it was a slip and what it would mean in either case.

Also I've done more than 13p thing to disprove that first one.

Check the link on Act 3 Scene 1.
The first "slip" is for one-antitown faction setup only.
In multiball, it's completely null.

That doesn't

disprove

that it's a slip or not. The only thing that can prove whether it's a slip or not is your flip. Your word is not proof.

Multiball doesn't change the possible slip, five scum is five scum. Your reasoning on the 13 player confusion is sound (and makes sense for why you were still looking for another townie), but that's up to us on whether we believe that reasoning or not.

1) Either we believe your reasoning that you thought there was 13 players and that's why you were still looking for one more town to be able to PoE
-or-
2) We don't believe that reasoning and think it's a scumslip that you're trying to cover up by saying that you thought it was a 13 player game.


The only thing that has been disproven is that some people are trying to push BOTH of these supposed scumslips - and BOTH of them do not work together. So while one of these slips

could

be a real slip, both of them are not. The good thing about this though, is that the people pushing both of them are wrong, and probably scum trying to (as you say) use terribad points to accuse you. But that still doesn't prove

your

alignment, only that you're likely not aligned with

them

.

Was it only baldeagle doing that?

Also you might have missed the promise thing because I didn't directly talk to you at that post, but I promised a town case in a post where I mention "little game."

Ahh, okay. Gotcha.

[Yggdra Union]

Ugh
At this point, it's just a frustration about how ppl can't understand what I'm talking about
This is not about my defense anymore. This is now just a pure rant.

I'm gonna explain this one last time.
The factor of multiball

does matter.

Think of this logical process of how the slip happens.

1. A is scum.
2. A knows that there are 5 scums in their team.
3. A knows that town would be looking for 5 scums.
4. Since A knows that he's scum, it is likely for him to subconsciously think that he needs one less scum to find.

It looks fine so far, but here's where it becomes a problem.
This is multiball.
That means that A's team have

less than 5 members

.
In this game, there are either scumteam of two, or scumteam of three.
In order to call something like this a slip, there must be more than 1 "extra town to find" involved!

So what I'm trying to say is that it's possible to see it as a slip in town PoV, but if you look at the scum PoV, it is

not possible

for them to slip like that, because from town PoV there are 5 scum to hunt, but from scum PoV that's not the case, for they legitimately have to hunt for the other scumteam too.

This is where the logic gets faulty and this is why this specific tell is not a scumslip in multiball.

And that's why I wanted ppl to take a crack at my logic.
Now ellehethren gets a

massive townpoint

for making this simple mistake of only looking at this from town PoV.

-Luciana

[Yggdra Union]

Btw I'm not saying that ppl who failed to do so is automatically scum.
It's one of those "town or null" thing.

-L