Xenogears Mafia (Game Over)

[waynegg]

Whenever I read wayne's posts, I find myself asking, "is he confused, or am I?"

Im not confused. Been reading and taking notes since the game started

Mala, Ghost is town.

Why?

Because WE said so.

I'm specifically asking Andy why he thinks that because I'm not on the same page. Nor do I believe you're town, so I'll wait for Andy, but thanks.

Mastin, why is Venmar town?

Because he is. That's as much as you're getting, and as much as you're ever getting.

Yeah. Not a good answer

This requires another spoiler. Inside, I have responses to FTL, Muffin, and kinda Mac...

Where's the love AJ?

___________________________________

Fixing the format

[waynegg]

Why is AJ town?

I'm going with Thezmon's read on him which I think them playing offsite he would know how to read him better than the rest of it. Along with the fact AJ's been chasing down me along with others. I do think he's solidly town

So, you

are

scum...

[waynegg]

And when are we working this out TF?

[mastin2]

Wayne, my answer's not going to change, nor will Andrius's. You're town. So just trust us. We know what we're doing. Ghostlin, Venmar, TiphaineDeath, and Mac (among others) are all town. Seriously. You don't need to know why. They just are. You think Malakittens is scum, right? Then help us lynch her.

What was scum Mala's plan here? She's been a helpless damsel since she replaced in, and her AtE and lack of effort have both only intensified since getting called out on it. She doesn't seem interested in doing anything to work against her death.

Simple: survive, and try not to give away her scumbuddies.

Counterpoint: what the HECK is a town-Mala doing giving this game the treatment she has? This AtE and lack of effort make no sense from the town-her, who would be trying desperately to figure it all out and leave something meaningful. I haven't seen that at all. All I've seen is AtE which looks like play to survive just a little bit longer.

Well, there's a minor logical jump involved. If wayne's slot was blocked, then they were blocked for a reason. If they were blocked for a reason, then it's typically because they had a reason to be blocked. One reason to block a claimed 1-shot vig who's taken a shot is that you fear scum will be hit and the vig was lying about being 1-shot.

Except I ISO'd Mutt to see if he left any indication of who he'd have targeted next. I found nothing. He spent all of day two with "I SHOT MY WHOLE LOAD ON SAKI LAWL."

So why would scum be afraid of him hitting again if 1) He'd claimed 1-shot and 2) There was no indication of who he'd target next if he were lying, and would thus be more likely to hit town than scum.

My thoughts exactly. Hey Mastin, why did you ignore this in 4116?

Because it wasn't worth answering? There was a logical jump. That logical jump was that Mutt would have shot scum, and that Aj could have been the target. I didn't bother to go back and look to see if there was anything. (Apparently, there wasn't.) The answer was in the post being quoted by BROseidon already. It was an assumption with little backing.

[mastin2]

Side-note, but I know that Nacho/Muttley have a history. If anyone was likely to figure out that Muttley had a second shot, it's most likely to have been Nacho.

Sooooo, if Muttley was roleblocked, it's evidence against Nacho. Apparently there were no hints, but that doesn't mean the scum didn't figure it out. If there were hints to it being Aj, that'd be evidence for Aj being scum. If there aren't any hints (which apparently there aren't) and yet he was STILL blocked despite indicating only being one-shot, the answer is:
Why would a scum roleblocker bother blocking an allegedly 1-shot vig, when the scum have better targets to choose for their roleblock?

The only answer I can think of is that the scum knew he wasn't a 1-shot vig, and feared he would hit scum with the second shot. And, again, Muttley having a history with Nacho points to Nacho being the most likely to make this deduction.

[Nachomamma8]

It's not that. Mastin blatantly claimed Cop and then cleared Venrob. There was no reading between the lines. Muttley actually had 2 shots instead of the one he claimed and shot AJ last night. AJ is still alive, hence the bulletproof.

I'm a one shot bullet proof townie,

[waynegg]

You know mastin, you still haven't answered 4151. And you're asking me to sheep you. Without addressing concerns I have with your slot. After I pretty plainly said I get scum vibes from you...

That's not going to happen

Pedit that's not what he skipped over.

[Malakittens]

Why is AJ town?

I'm going with Thezmon's read on him which I think them playing offsite he would know how to read him better than the rest of it. Along with the fact AJ's been chasing down me along with others. I do think he's solidly town

So, you

are

scum...

No. I think he's town because he's hunting whether or not he's on the wrong or right rack. He's hunting.

~

I'm done replying to Mastin or Bro. They won't even knowledge that I might be a little town.

I haven't done just all AtE. I have given reads out if you like them or not, I have been hunting whether or not you disagree with it.

[waynegg]

*4051

[waynegg]

Why is AJ town?

I'm going with Thezmon's read on him which I think them playing offsite he would know how to read him better than the rest of it. Along with the fact AJ's been chasing down me along with others. I do think he's solidly town

So, you

are

scum...

No. I think he's town because he's hunting whether or not he's on the wrong or right rack. He's hunting.

~

I'm done replying to Mastin or Bro. They won't even knowledge that I might be a little town.

I haven't done just all AtE. I have given reads out if you like them or not, I have been hunting whether or not you disagree with it.

How is taking shots at a popular punching bag and paraphrasing what others have previously said and tunneling hunting?

[mastin2]

Wayne, my answer's not going to change, nor will Andrius's. You're town. So just trust us. We know what we're doing. Ghostlin, Venmar, TiphaineDeath, and Mac (among others) are all town. Seriously. You don't need to know why. They just are.

That's as much an answer as you're ever getting, wayne. I'm sorry. It just is. If you've got an issue on me when it comes to a player outside those names, go ahead. Tell me about it. I'll address that concern. But when it comes to those names, this is as much elaboration as you're getting. Period. They are town, they will flip town, and no matter what type of suspicion you hold on them, that's not going to change the fact that they are town. And I'm sorry if you can't see that. But it's the truth. So there's nothing more to say.

They are town because they are town. Simple as that.

[mastin2]

Oh, wait, that wasn't your question.

The reason I'm thinking you were roleblocked is
-You claimed your slot shot Aj.
-Aj claimed 1-shot bulletproof.
-HOWEVER, Aj claimed that as far as he knows, his bp vest was not used up.
-Thus, the possibilities are
* Aj is lying.
* The mod neglected to inform Aj that his vest was used. (

Aj, I expect you to ask the mod about this if you haven't already.

)
* Neither of you are lying and both are telling the truth: something prevented your shot from hitting his vest.

In the third scenario, said something would, almost certainly, be a scum roleblocker.

[mastin2]

Considering that there's about no chance of you being scum, I mine as well just claim. I'm a one shot bullet proof townie, who actively tried to get shot night 1 to remove that benefit. I wanted to remove any ambiguity because I had/have strong reasons to believe a traitor exists in this game and my role's job was to add a counterbalance to it. Not only do I have a strong reason to suspect much, but this is generally the key reason a bullet proof townie is added in (I can point a few games I was in recently with the same role).

Unfortunately, I received no notification to recognize anyone having removed this from me.

I can, however, show a trail of crumbs I left to try to get this removed and how it has affected my logical progression through the game.

The relevant section that Nacho conveniently snipped from the quote.

Again, would like to emphasize. Assuming both are truthful (which, admittedly, is not a certainty when it comes to Aj's half), then something prevented the shot from hitting the vest. Said something most probably being a roleblocker.

Make sense now?

[Nachomamma8]

The mod neglected to inform Aj that his vest was used.

you sometimes don't know if your vest was used or not.

[waynegg]

Wayne, my answer's not going to change, nor will Andrius's. You're town. So just trust us. We know what we're doing. Ghostlin, Venmar, TiphaineDeath, and Mac (among others) are all town. Seriously. You don't need to know why. They just are.

That's as much an answer as you're ever getting, wayne. I'm sorry. It just is. If you've got an issue on me when it comes to a player outside those names, go ahead. Tell me about it. I'll address that concern. But when it comes to those names, this is as much elaboration as you're getting. Period. They are town, they will flip town, and no matter what type of suspicion you hold on them, that's not going to change the fact that they are town. And I'm sorry if you can't see that. But it's the truth. So there's nothing more to say.

They are town because they are town. Simple as that.

I'll take you up on that. Not AJ? It's gotta be Venmar.

[waynegg]

My way of thinking on the BP thing is that with an x-shot vig, it would make sense for scum to have a BP counter.

[mastin2]

I'll take you up on that. Not AJ? It's gotta be Venmar.

Oh, it

could

be Aj. Don't get me wrong. Totally haven't eliminated him from being scum. I just don't think he is currently, and even if he were, he's not a high priority.

But Venmar most certainly is not scum.

Malakittens is, through multiple factors, nearly-certainly scum. In theory she could be town, but in practice, there's virtually no scenario where she fits as being town, and an incredible amount where she's scum. (And, no, this is not confirmation bias. Would love it if she could be town, but she simply...isn't.)

[Aj The Epic]

* The mod neglected to inform Aj that his vest was used. (Aj, I expect you to ask the mod about this if you haven't already.)

I won't be informed of being hit or not.

Waynegg,

'If Skull is scum' is crazy weak for the theory we have here.

Thez, I know. I think Rach is the ideal lynch. All the major roots extend from her, and she hasn't proven anything useful. Mala will be incriminated, I get my lynch, and we then proceed to wreck the scum team.

AJ ~
Just two questions.

What's your definition of "to incriminate"?

Why were you bulletproof N2?

I personally prefer lexical definitions, and as such: To make one appear guilty of a specific crime.

Then, can you explain this?

I believed that a Rach scum flip made Mala almost confirmed scum. Am I missing something? In all simpler wording, it could alternately state "Mala is almost certainly guilty if Rach flips scum"

[waynegg]

That struck me that you were using Rach's scumminess to make it appear that Mala is scum (e.g. lining up lynches). Based on your definition, that's still how it comes across. "To make one appear guilty" isn't the same as "almost certainly guilty". To make someone

appear

to be guilty is more along the lines of framing someone whereas the other reflects more of a personal view. Pretty confident you're scum based off this. Using euphemisms like this to soften intent is pretty common when under pressure. If you're scum, I hope you don't feel like scum caught for the wrong reasons...

More AJ votes please.

[Aj The Epic]

First of all, you're not using the language right. You want to argue semantics, go ahead. Here's how you use incriminate in a sentence according to the 2011 New Oxford American Dictionary
"he refused to answer questions in order not to incriminate himself"

Now, I really am starting to get lost about what you are saying here, but incriminate is to make some look guilty because of evidence. It's not a form of framing, it is literally evidence that points to another being guilty of a crime. Incriminate is not a euphemism, it is one step away from saying "This evidence makes you guilty beyond any reasonable doubt" in court. Had I said "Mala would look a lot more likely to be scum if Rach flips scum", that could be considered soft. Saying evidence incriminates someone is not, by any means, soft.

If you're scum, I hope you don't feel like scum caught for the wrong reasons...

For comparison, that's a euphemism.

[waynegg]

Lol!

a mild or indirect word or expression substituted for one considered to be too harsh or blunt when referring to something unpleasant or embarrassing.

How is what you quoted a euphemism?

I'm not arguing semantics. I'm saying that when you told me what the phrase meant to you, you said it was to make someone

appear

to be guilty. When applied to your statement you used a euphemism, "almost certainly guilty", to soften that. Now when called out for euphamizing your statement, you say you're using evidence (though what you pointed to really isn't evidence) to incriminate. And then you quote a statement of mine and call it a euphemism when it isn't, for what purpose I have no idea.

I'm not arguing semantics at all. I'm pointing out what you did that shows to you being lying about your intentions.

[waynegg]

@AJ

One more question, please. It may seem silly, but I really need to know why you chose the Rubix Cube as your long term Avi?

[Malakittens]

@AJ

One more question, please. It may seem silly, but I really need to know why you chose the Rubix Cube as your long term Avi?

What does this have to do with the current game? ;_;

[borkjerfkin]

dopog replaces Venmar!

[Trust Fund]

Hey dopog, venmar claimed miller before he left. Confirm that it's true plz kthnx.