Micro 242: Les Miserables Mafia (Game Over)


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Post Post #200 (ISO) » Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:07 am

Post by penguin_alien »

At the end of they day we're another lynch lighter. And that's all you can say for the way this game goes.
It's a puzzler, it's a slog, and you don't know who's telling the truth now.
One more phase arguing reads, what is it for? One phase less till the last bow.


With nine alive, it takes five to lynch!

Vote Count 1.07:

Lord Mhork (L-5):
Malakittens (L-5):
mastin2 (L-5):
bv310 (L-5):
Maemuki (L-2): Grimgroove, elleheathen, Lord Mhork
shos (L-4): funkybike1
Grimgroove (L-5):
elleheathen (L-5):
funkybike1 (L-2): mastin2, Malakittens, shos

Not voting: bv310, Maemuki

V/LA:

Deadline is in (expired on 2013-10-19 00:44:01)
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Post Post #201 (ISO) » Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:10 am

Post by shos »

well it's a good time to VOTE: Maemuki. This is an L-1 vote, lawl, had to say it
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Post Post #202 (ISO) » Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:14 am

Post by mastin2 »

In post 189, Malakittens wrote:Mastin is town. Now all he has to do is work with me! <3
Technically, you're working with me, since my slot was voting funky before yours was. :P
In post 197, Grimgroove wrote:Could you give examples of what sparked that gut, at least? You don't have to explain why, but it is helpful to show us what did.
It's not any specific posts, though. I just get an overall vibe that Mae's town. It's like...I dunno. Mae's too casual, too relaxed, to be scum. As if Mae's not really concerned about looking town and knows already that they are town, if that makes sense.

I mean, yeah. There's not much in Mae's posting that looks town. But Mae just
feels
town.
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Post Post #203 (ISO) » Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:21 am

Post by Lord Mhork »

Lax posting isn't always town though. Scum likes to coast too.
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Post Post #204 (ISO) » Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:23 am

Post by shos »

mastin's guy stuff is how he played when he was scum last game we played like three weeks ago.

mastin hun, is there a chance this is how you play as town too? perhaps you can link me to town games of yours?


which reminds me, I owed someone some meta for the L-1 gamestart, I'll get that somewhen in this hour
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Post Post #205 (ISO) » Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:26 am

Post by shos »

well so here's a game in which I pushed this, and greycat even said that I've done this as town, so that shortens my search x)
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Post Post #206 (ISO) » Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:27 am

Post by shos »

In post 836, Lucky2u said:

Rule # 5h05: players should not attempt to use or manipulate the mod for any purpose.
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Post Post #207 (ISO) » Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:34 am

Post by Grimgroove »

Don't remind me of that game...
"What truffles are to pigs so are these charlatans and pettifoggers to my mental acuity." - Frasier
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Post Post #208 (ISO) » Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:35 am

Post by mastin2 »

In post 203, Lord Mhork wrote:Lax posting isn't always town though. Scum likes to coast too.
Thing is, you're associating coasting and lax posting as being synonymous; they are not. Mae's posting isn't coasting. Beyond feeling like it, you can tell. Coasting is doing half-assed scumhunting--just enough to be below the radar. Mae's not doing that, as evident by being at L-1. :P Mae's posting distinctly is that of someone who doesn't give a damn. Now, admittedly, yes. It's possible that Mae's scum not giving a damn. (Possible, not probable.) But Mae sure as hell doesn't read that way to me.
In post 204, shos wrote:mastin hun, is there a chance this is how you play as town too? perhaps you can link me to town games of yours?
Yes, it is; no, I can't. I've got 120+ games (hell, probably 130+ by now), and they're scattered throughout time and forum. There's a REASON I asked for help updating my wiki; it's because I've played in so many games that I've lost track of them.

Plus, going into MD theory a bit, I adjust my play every single game, to the circumstances. Sometimes, I'll strongly use reasons and intuition. Other times, I'll use mainly gut and instinctive reactions to things. It all depends from game to game, off of the context behind it. And going into MD theory even further, the border between logic and gut is thinner than most people think; I see them as two different aspects of the same entity, rather than two separate entities. I'll see something tripping my gut and try to think of reasonable explanations, and I'll ALSO gather evidence, process it, analyze it (all logic), but ultimately form my conclusion off of what I feel. (Gut.)

But in GENERAL, as scum I use logic a lot more. The reason being that as scum, I know the picture of the game much better overall, and thus, know how to make arguments that are more coherent. As town, my thought process is generally scattered and lacks focus. But as scum, having a much more clearly-defined objective, I can make a much better stance on things. There's a reason I used to half-joke that logic was a scumtell for me. :P And it's exactly that.

As town, I use gut a lot more. The reason largely being that my logic seems to lead me astray. I don't have that perfect process, so even if my train of thought is correct, I'll often come to the wrong conclusion if I'm working off of logic. Or something like that. I dunno, I guess it's just much easier for me to use gut as town than it is for me to use logic as town.
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Post Post #209 (ISO) » Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:39 am

Post by Grimgroove »

What do you think of Mae's arguments against Mhork?
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Post Post #210 (ISO) » Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:53 am

Post by mastin2 »

These?
In post 79, Maemuki wrote:Mhork, I think your vote on Shos was very strange - it felt like sheeping while not completely understanding why. At least funky had the decency to quote what he thought was scummy. I said that already, but you conviniently didn't catch that.
In post 99, Maemuki wrote:You only voted after funky did. Which is the definition of sheeping. Are you following?
In post 161, Maemuki wrote:Also, I disagree almost 100% with Grimgroove's reads. I think that Ellie and Mhork sound... close, so to speak. I don't know if they've played a lot, or if this is just coincidence, but their interactions sound off.
In post 60, Lord Mhork wrote:...was it not obvious when I said he was bullshitting reasoning for thinking that funky was town on that one post?
And you only thought of that after funky posted? I find that unlikely. I'm not sure if you didn't understand my question (fine, I didn't use question marks, but the idea was there) or if you didn't want to understand.
Well, aside from looking incredibly town to me, they also have the potential to be solidly-based. I'm not sold on it (if I was, I'd be voting Mhork rather than funky), but it's definitely something I'm watching.
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Post Post #211 (ISO) » Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:55 am

Post by Lord Mhork »

But she's wrong. Her points don't hold any water. I gave rationale before funky posted and she's ignoring that to make it look like I seeped a scum read and then rationalized it. That didn't happen.
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Post Post #212 (ISO) » Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:57 am

Post by Grimgroove »

You don't find it at all odd Maemuki has only 1 argument against 1 person to show for her entire game?

On top of that, I disagree with the argument. It overemphasizes the importance of a vote, and undervalues the inclination Mhork had sown beforehand, as well as other contributing factors such as shos having flailed over the course of time that went on between Mhork's initial comments and Mhork's vote.
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Post Post #213 (ISO) » Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:02 am

Post by mastin2 »

In post 212, Grimgroove wrote:You don't find it at all odd Maemuki has only 1 argument against 1 person to show for her entire game?
Nope.

Honestly, I'd probably have more issues with Mae if there
were
. :P One person reads as "meh" casual. Something like half the town reads as coasting. If that makes sense.
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Post Post #214 (ISO) » Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:47 am

Post by shos »

In post 212, Grimgroove wrote: other contributing factors such as shos having flailed over the course of time that went on between Mhork's initial comments and Mhork's vote.
I'd say that
most
of the town were participating in the discussion, at least 5-6 people IMO and it's a micro. what do you make of the fact that mae literally never said anything about me, my cases, the cases on me, etc?
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Post Post #215 (ISO) » Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:07 am

Post by Grimgroove »

That falls under Maemuki's inactivity in general, which I addressed myself in 212. Don't understand why you're asking me this question.
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Post Post #216 (ISO) » Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:10 am

Post by funkybike1 »

My opinion seems not to be shared, so this is long overdue.

UNVOTE: shos

I would vote Mae if not L-1. More coming after I'm done with classes for the day.
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Post Post #217 (ISO) » Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:13 am

Post by Lord Mhork »

What does that post mean, funky?
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Post Post #218 (ISO) » Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:17 am

Post by elleheathen »

In post 205, shos wrote:
In post 117, elleheathen wrote:
In post 91, shos wrote:Also if it is relevant, I calling people for l-1s gamestart all the time, so you're more than welcome to view my meta.
You have like 5k posts.
If you wanna point me in the direction of one of your games where you are town and where you label someone during gamestart as another town based solely on stating an L-1 vote, then yes, it would help. Otherwise, irrelevant.
well so here's a game in which I pushed this, and greycat even said that I've done this as town, so that shortens my search x)
You realize I asked you for a game in which you do this as town and you link me a game in which you do it as scum?

...

.....

idek.......
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Post Post #219 (ISO) » Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:19 am

Post by elleheathen »

In post 216, funkybike1 wrote:My opinion seems not to be shared, so this is long overdue.

UNVOTE: shos

I would vote Mae if not L-1. More coming after I'm done with classes for the day.
Why does it matter if your opinion is shared or not - if you actually believe in your opinion?
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Post Post #220 (ISO) » Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:22 am

Post by elleheathen »

In post 201, shos wrote:well it's a good time to VOTE: Maemuki. This is an L-1 vote, lawl, had to say it
Why is it a 'good time'?
What do you think of Mae and are you voting them solely on the 'active lurking' that you point out?
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Post Post #221 (ISO) » Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:47 am

Post by funkybike1 »

Okay, maybe I should have phrased that as "you guys are not lynching shos today, and he looks a bit more townish now." If you want to correct me on the first half of that, you're perfectly welcome to do so.

As for Mae, here is every single one of her posts.
In post 12, Maemuki wrote:VOTE: bv310 because fellow '09.
RVS, not much to say about this one.
In post 16, Maemuki wrote:
In post 14, elleheathen wrote::o
They never even 'Oooh'ed or 'Ahhh'ed.
It's not better than an opera (yet), though.
Fluff.
In post 49, Maemuki wrote:My collection of Les Miseràbles cast albums is potencially embarrasing. Seriously, I'm missing very few of them.

Also, shos, it benefits scum in a way (less townies) but it also leaves them at a disadvantage (because every other townie is now suspicious of them). So there's that.
First half, fluff; second half, explaining why quickhammering is a bad idea.
In post 57, Maemuki wrote:So, Mhork, won't you even give us a teeny tiny bit of your reasoning?
In post 59, Maemuki wrote:Your vote, maybe?
Referring to Mhork's vote on shos. He had given reasoning - shos claiming a townread on me for nothing but the L-1 vote - but it was buried in theory discussion.
In post 61, Maemuki wrote:Yet you only voted after funky did. I don't think that makes much sense, but w/e. (b'-')b
I have a null read on this one. At least it's not fluff.
In post 79, Maemuki wrote:
(quoted Mhork's #74)


Mhork, I think your vote on Shos was very strange - it felt like sheeping while not completely understanding why. At least funky had the decency to quote what he thought was scummy. I said that already, but you conviniently didn't catch that.
I'm pretty sure Mhork caught that, and he stated why he thought shos was scummy.
In post 99, Maemuki wrote:
In post 80, Lord Mhork wrote:You mean when you said this? Where did you say it felt like sheeping? The part where you pointed out I voted after funky did? That just looks like a random observation.

And are you saying I didn't point out why I thought shos looked scummy?
You only voted after funky did. Which is the definition of sheeping. Are you following?

Also, yes.
Just because you vote after someone doesn't mean you're sheeping. Especially when you have a valid reason to vote for them, and you explain it.
In post 161, Maemuki wrote:UNVOTE: bv (that was my RVS vote, btw, I think shos asked).
So, apparently, we already have walls of text on page 6. (b'-')b And the case on me is that I have done nothing all game? Mmmm. Let's think.

1) Most of my posts were fluff. We agree on this one.
2) Most of my posts were during the RVS period.
3) The RVS isn't very known for it's content.

Now, I don't know about you guys, but some people (I'm looking at you, shos, funky, since you're the other people who are under the most suspicion) are keeping me as a second backup lynch while not actually voting me. (If you're going to accuse me of active lurking, at least make an effort and try to check my posting history. I haven't really posted on the site ever since.) Also, I disagree almost 100% with Grimgroove's reads. I think that Ellie and Mhork sound... close, so to speak. I don't know if they've played a lot, or if this is just coincidence, but their interactions sound off.
In post 60, Lord Mhork wrote:...was it not obvious when I said he was bullshitting reasoning for thinking that funky was town on that one post?
And you only thought of that after funky posted? I find that unlikely. I'm not sure if you didn't understand my question (fine, I didn't use question marks, but the idea was there) or if you didn't want to understand.
This is moving into straight-up tunnel vision territory. Also, it's not your number of posts, it's the content of them that matters.



So let's recap. She has nine posts. Two which are nothing but fluff,
SIX
asking Mhork about his vote on shos, and the last one is her RVS vote (which she only just took back.) If that's not the definition of lurking, I don't know what is.

Here you have it. Mae, give me one good reason to not just hammer you and get it over with.
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Post Post #222 (ISO) » Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:15 am

Post by Grimgroove »

In post 221, funkybike1 wrote:Mae, give me one good reason to not just hammer you and get it over with.
Because you'll be most probably be lynched if you do.
I guess this is an intent to hammer? Not too sure if it isn't too early for that. Would like to hear more from people like BV (!!), MAlakittens and of course, Maemuki herself before it gets to that.

UNVOTE:

No need to rush things. But the pressure is definitely still on, Maemuki, so don't get too comfortable and please respond.
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Post Post #223 (ISO) » Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:31 am

Post by shos »

LONGPOST INCOMINGGGG
In post 215, Grimgroove wrote:That falls under Maemuki's inactivity in general, which I addressed myself in 212. Don't understand why you're asking me this question.
I wasn't, I was directing that question to mastin.
Mastin, please answer

In post 216, funkybike1 wrote:My opinion seems not to be shared, so this is long overdue.

UNVOTE: shos

I would vote Mae if not L-1. More coming after I'm done with classes for the day.
is a scum move. it is not 'shared' - that's fine, and it's okay to move your vote when you see your wagon is not viable. but just an unvote? nope. Also, that last sentence - that's 150% the bussing option.
In post 218, elleheathen wrote:
In post 205, shos wrote:
In post 117, elleheathen wrote:
In post 91, shos wrote:Also if it is relevant, I calling people for l-1s gamestart all the time, so you're more than welcome to view my meta.
You have like 5k posts.
If you wanna point me in the direction of one of your games where you are town and where you label someone during gamestart as another town based solely on stating an L-1 vote, then yes, it would help. Otherwise, irrelevant.
well so here's a game in which I pushed this, and greycat even said that I've done this as town, so that shortens my search x)
You realize I asked you for a game in which you do this as town and you link me a game in which you do it as scum?
I linked you to where grey says that he has seen me do this as town..
In post 220, elleheathen wrote:
In post 201, shos wrote:well it's a good time to VOTE: Maemuki. This is an L-1 vote, lawl, had to say it
Why is it a 'good time'?
What do you think of Mae and are you voting them solely on the 'active lurking' that you point out?
A good time is a time where that wagon is on a larger scale than funky's wagon. read: what I wrote literally in this post to funky. it's ok to move your vote between scumreads. earlier it was sort of a tie, and I think funky is much more scummy, so I stayed. but it doesn't look like he's in the highlight, so I'll keep'im for tomorrow, no probs in havine mae first.
I've already explained my thoughts of Mae. the active lurking is what I pointed out, but the leading principle is the avoidance of true discussion while distancing from a wagon which (I know) is on a townie.
How can a townsperson POSSIBLY ignore the entire discussion we've had about me and my shits like he did? I'm also waiting on mastin to answer this question, because I highly doubt mae is town.
In post 221, funkybike1 wrote:Okay, maybe I should have phrased that as "you guys are not lynching shos today, and he looks a bit more townish now." If you want to correct me on the first half of that, you're perfectly welcome to do so.
so. what you're saying (lescumpost once more) is that a few posts ago, nobody shared your opinion about me being scum, so you unvoted. and now, when asked about it, with no interference of me in the middle, all of a sudden I look town? okay. so if I look town...what thought wasn't shared with you earlier?
*bunch of quotes and useless obvious comments on them*
^^^blending in the crowd. has it not been repeated a dozen times now? gg LITERALLY quoted the entire ISO earlier and did it better.
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Post Post #224 (ISO) » Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:32 am

Post by shos »

the reason to not hammer is that by your post, you're policy lynching.
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